John Marvin Murdaugh — Direct/Proffer/Cross
817 linesJUDGE NEWMAN: Very good. Thank you. Your next witness.
MR. GRIFFIN: Thank you, Your Honor. The defense calls John Marvin Murdaugh.
The witness, JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH, was first duly sworn and testified as follows:
COURT CLERK: Adjust that microphone to where it suits you. State your full name, and spell your last name for the record.
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: John Marvin Murdaugh, M-u-r-d-a-u-g-h.
DIRECT EXAMINATION
BY MR. GRIFFIN:
MR. GRIFFIN: Mr. Murdaugh, will you tell the jury just briefly some background information? Where you are from, what do you do?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: Yes, sir. So, I was born in Columbia, grew up in Hampton. Attended public schools from first grade through high school. Graduated Wade Hampton. I went to University of South Carolina and got a degree in criminal justice, and I'm now self-employed. I've opened some companies in the heavy equipment business.
MR. GRIFFIN: What's the name -- what's the name of your company?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: Well, the main company is Murdaugh Rental Center, but I've got Murdaugh Kubota, Murdaugh Equipment, LLC. So, generally speaking I'm in the construction equipment, agricultural tractors, and implements -- I'm in the equipment business.
MR. GRIFFIN: And do you have offices? I mean, locations, multiple locations?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: I have two, one in Hampton, and one in the Okatie/Bluffton area.
MR. GRIFFIN: Are you related to the defendant, Richard Alexander Murdaugh?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: I am. I'm his brother.
MR. GRIFFIN: Do you have any other brothers?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: I do. Randy Murdaugh is my brother.
MR. GRIFFIN: And do you have a sister?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: I do, Lynn. Both are here.
MR. GRIFFIN: And your parents are whom?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: Randolph and Libby Murdaugh.
MR. GRIFFIN: Are you the only son of the three that didn't go to law school?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: I am, and I'm quite proud of it.
MR. GRIFFIN: Tell the jury generally about the Murdaugh family, your family in this area.
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: Well, I mean, obviously we're probably like most families, or a lot of families. We're very close. I mean, the siblings, we stay in touch. We do holidays together. We -- you know, you try to interact and keep your family core together. I mean, we're just, you know, a normal family doing normal family things.
MR. GRIFFIN: All right. Do your parents -- we've heard about your father, Randolph Murdaugh, who died on June 10th. Is that correct?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: That's correct.
MR. GRIFFIN: And then your mother is Ms. Libby?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: She is.
MR. GRIFFIN: And she's still alive, correct?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: She is. In fact, yesterday was her birthday.
MR. GRIFFIN: And you went by to see her, I understand.
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: I did, with my kids.
MR. GRIFFIN: In the spring of 2021, were they both alive? Was your dad alive?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: Yes, sir.
MR. GRIFFIN: And what was his health in the spring of 2021?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: Well, for some -- he had been battling cancer, and not just cancer. I'll use that term loosely, he had multiple forms of cancer. But he had been battling cancer, had health issues. He had been through heart surgeries. Just overall his health was not good, you know, just in and out of the hospital. Just age --
MR. GRIFFIN: Right.
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: -- and diseases were catching up to him.
MR. GRIFFIN: And would you check in on your mom and dad any chance you got?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: I would. I would. So, I didn't tell y'all this. So, I don't live in Hampton. I live -- my wife and family and I, we live down in Beaufort, or just outside of Beaufort, and so my drive is just about an hour's drive to do it. So, I didn't visit as often as Randy and Alex because they were in Hampton. But absolutely. Any time I had the opportunity to work in Hampton at my office, I would always take time to stop by, and then sometimes I would just, you know, just wanted to go see my mom.
MR. GRIFFIN: The -- and was it routine for one -- either of your brothers who lived in Hampton to stop by and check on them routinely?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: Oh, absolutely. In fact, you know, I don't know every time they went because I wasn't there, but I feel confident that they visited more just because of the proximity. It's just an easier visit.
MR. GRIFFIN: So, let's talk about proximity. Your brother Randy, where does he live?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: He lives in Hampton in town.
MR. GRIFFIN: And then your sister, Lynn, where does she live?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: She leaves in Summerville.
MR. GRIFFIN: Okay, and then Alex, where did he live in the spring of 2021?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: Well, I think in the spring of '21 he was living in Moselle. I think all of them were.
MR. GRIFFIN: And was Moselle close to Almeda?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: Well, it's further than Randy's house but much closer than mine.
MR. GRIFFIN: Right, and your mother's house -- I'm saying Almeda, but is Almeda a town, or --
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: No, Almeda is correct. That's the -- that's the, the location. That's the property name, if you will, the intersection name. I think that's just the general --
MR. GRIFFIN: Just tell the jury where that's located.
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: It would be just east of Varnville, maybe 2 or 3 miles outside of the town limits.
MR. GRIFFIN: Is it basically at the intersection of -- I don't know. What's that main --
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: Intersection of 278 and Highway 68. That would go to -- one goes to Ridgeland, and one goes to Yemassee.
MR. GRIFFIN: Okay, and would Alex visit your mom and dad frequently in the spring of 2021, to your knowledge?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: Oh, absolutely.
MR. GRIFFIN: We'll get to more of that. How well -- I want to talk about Paul. How well did you know Paul?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: I knew Paul very well. Excuse me, I'm going to have a hard time talking about Paul because we had a very special relationship. But I knew him very well, and I'll do my best to answer any questions about him.
MR. GRIFFIN: Well, did he have a nickname?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: He did. They called him Little Rooster.
MR. GRIFFIN: And did they call him anything else?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: Well, he's been called Little Rooster. Been called, as you heard, Paul-Paul. I mean, that's what my family, my kids called him.
MR. GRIFFIN: What did you call him?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: Well, it depends on where we were and what we were doing. When, when we were -- excuse me -- when we were doing something fun at a social event, I would refer to him as Paul-Paul. Now, y'all haven't heard this yet, but he worked for me, so when he worked for me it was Paul or it was Paul Terry because I was trying to be, you know, a little more authoritative.
MR. GRIFFIN: Who else call him Paul-Paul?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: Most all of the family. And that's not -- you know, that's not a name that was said at all times. But when we were having fun, the kids would say is it, my wife would say it. It was just a name that was used in fun times and in normal times.
MR. GRIFFIN: And you mentioned Paul worked for you. When did he work for you?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: You know, that's -- I thought you were going to ask that and unfortunately I don't know. He's worked for me maybe -- prior to June of '21, he was working, or he was working then, and I think he worked the two summers prior to that, and it was just summer work. I mean, you know, it would only last a month or so, month and a half.
MR. GRIFFIN: And was he working for you in June of 2021?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: He was.
MR. GRIFFIN: What was he doing for you?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: Anything I asked him to do.
MR. GRIFFIN: Where was he working?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: He was working at my Bluffton/Okatie store. He would do anything from powerwash equipment or deliver new tractors that were being sold, talk to customers, help customers load and unload rental equipment. He did -- as you heard someone testify, that boy would work, and so whatever was asked of him he would do.
MR. GRIFFIN: Was he on the phone the whole time or did he actually work?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: Not at work he was not. Well, not while I was there.
MR. GRIFFIN: Was he a good worker?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: He was an excellent worker.
MR. GRIFFIN: Did you spend time with Paul -- well, let me back up. Do you have a place where you hunt? Do you have a property?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: I do.
MR. GRIFFIN: Do you have a name for that property?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: We call it Greenfield.
MR. GRIFFIN: And would Paul and Buster come out to Greenfield to hunt?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: They would, absolutely.
MR. GRIFFIN: Okay. Let me just back up. What was the relationship between Alex, Paul, and Buster?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: Oh, it was a great relationship. You know, anything that the boys were doing Alex wanted to do, and the boys always came first to him. And some of y'all may have been on dove hunts before, but we would have -- I have a very small field, and, you know, I've got ten stands in the field, and I have -- before the hunt, I have it organized where I know who sits where. Well, Alex will say can the boys come? Well, of course they can come, so now I've got to rearrange for that. Or if they said they were coming and the boys backed out, Alex always backed out. I was thinking about this. To this day, I don't believe he has ever come hunting with me since his boys have been old enough to hunt without his boys. It's always with the boys.
MR. GRIFFIN: Did he do other things with them?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: He did sporting events, you know, football games, baseball games.
MR. GRIFFIN: Was he close with his sons?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: Very close.
MR. GRIFFIN: All right, and how about Maggie? What, what did you observe of his relationship with Maggie?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: It was, you know, it was a great relationship. I mean, all marriages I am sure have hiccups here and there, but I'm telling you, it was a good marriage. In coming here, I was trying to think of ways to describe it. My wife and I, and Alex and Maggie, we went to a concert together. It was the Darius Rucker concert. And, of course, we're sitting in there, Alex and Maggie are sitting just below us, and I had just gone -- I hope I can say this in court -- I had just gone and bought one of those $15 beers, and I was back in my seat, and a song was playing, and my wife taps me, and Alex and Maggie are holding hands swaying together. And she was, like, why aren't you holding my hand? And so my $15 beer got put down.
MR. GRIFFIN: The --
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: They had a great relationship. I mean, that's just one of many. Football games, they would put out a tailgate spread. They would welcome the kids, family, friends. It was just a wonderful --
MR. GRIFFIN: And did they do a lot of family things together with Paul and Buster, and Paul and Buster's friends?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: Yes, they did. You know, I knew of -- or knew of trips that they would take, family trips, you know, vacations. They had a house at Edisto that y'all have heard about, and they would have -- you know, they would always have friends come over, particularly the boys' friends.
MR. GRIFFIN: There's been some discussion during this case about -- during this trial about Paul leaving guns and stuff around. Did you ever experience that?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: I did.
MR. GRIFFIN: And tell the jury a little bit about your experience.
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: Well, you know, I've heard the testimony about it, and it's accurate. I mean, I could tell y'all a hundred stories of him leaving things. But he was notorious. He would come stay with us at our house. He would leave. Liz would have all of his clothes washed and, you know, he just, like, he just left and didn't care about where his clothes were. In fact, Paul came duck hunting with me one time and -- at Greenfield, and I smiled fondly on this when I, you know, think back on all of this. So, we had a great duck hunt. I think there were three of us in the blind, great duck hunt. We picked up, picked up all the birds, decoys, and we left to go back up and have a nice breakfast. You know, doing all the post hunt -- all of the fun things that you do. Well, I went back hunting, I don't know, it was probably a week and a half, maybe two weeks later, and his hunting gear is still in the blind. I mean, I just I had to smile when I saw it. I was, like, that's Paul.
MR. GRIFFIN: Right. Did -- I want to ask you a little bit about riding property. Do you ride your property down at Greenfield?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: I do.
MR. GRIFFIN: And have you --
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: Riding in what --
MR. GRIFFIN: What? Like checking on the property? Do you --
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: Oh, you mean like just riding around, joyriding, or checking feeders, or --
MR. GRIFFIN: Right.
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: Yes, sir.
MR. GRIFFIN: And do you always carry a gun when you do that?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: I don't.
MR. GRIFFIN: And have you ridden property like at your dad's place with your dad and maybe Alex or others? Is that a frequent occurrence?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: I would say almost never when I rode the property with my dad.
MR. GRIFFIN: Almost never carry a gun.
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: Almost never would we carry a gun. We would just joyride. Now, you know, if it was later in the afternoon and we would consider maybe getting in a deer stand at the last minute, possibly. But typically with my dad and us, we didn't carry a gun then.
MR. GRIFFIN: Right. Speaking of your dad, what was -- do you recall what was going on with his health the weekend -- the Saturday/Sunday before June the 7th? So, I guess it would start -- Friday would be the 4th, Saturday would be the 5th, Sunday would be the 6th.
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: Right. So, he was actually in the hospital, I believe, in Columbia that weekend, and I think he got out of the hospital on Sunday.
MR. GRIFFIN: Okay, and did you pick him up? Your brother pick up --
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: I did not. I did not. I didn't -- I may have been out of town. I can't recall. You know, I've heard the testimony about it. I did not pick him up.
MR. GRIFFIN: Did you end up taking your father to the doctor on that Monday, June the 7th?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: I did.
MR. GRIFFIN: And where did you take him?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: I took him to Savannah to his -- what I would call his normal doctor. I think Columbia was -- maybe he had to go up there for some different things but I'm not sure.
MR. GRIFFIN: Okay, and was he having some breathing issues on that --
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: He was having some major breathing issues.
MR. GRIFFIN: And when you went to the doctor on Monday, June 7th, was there a decision made to admit him to the hospital?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: It was. So, when I took him it was -- we were only going to a doctor's appointment. We were -- we were not going to the hospital. It was just me taking him to a doctor's appointment to try to find out what the breathing issues were. Maybe, you know, some type of a treatment, or medication or something to help him. While we were there, while -- you know, as soon as -- not as soon as the doctor saw him, but when the doctor saw him and went through some things, he immediately told both of us that he had to be in the hospital, that he was not getting the oxygen that he needed.
MR. GRIFFIN: And was he admitted on that Monday?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: He was.
MR. GRIFFIN: And what was, as you understood it, the prognosis when he was put back in the hospital on Monday the 8th -- I mean, the 7th.
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: On Monday the 7th, yeah. So, my understanding was that the doctor that we were seeing, or that he was seeing, had some really strong beliefs that the cancer that he had was not causing the breathing obstructions, that it very likely could be pneumonia. And he told us, he said if it's the cancer, that's the worst, but if it's pneumonia like I think it is, I think we've got some treatment options.
MR. GRIFFIN: So, was there hope on June 7th?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: Oh, absolutely. When he told me that, I mean -- well, first of all, when he said he had to go in the hospital, it scared me, you know. Obviously it scares you when a doctor tells you you immediately have to check in. But, yes, him explaining that he was optimistic that it was going to be pneumonia and that there would be a breathing treatment to help it, I felt pretty good.
MR. GRIFFIN: Now in evidence, and I'm not going to read it again, but did you and your brother send out emails -- I mean, excuse me, text messages to family members giving them an update?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: We did.
MR. GRIFFIN: And that was on the 7th.
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: That was on the 7th.
MR. GRIFFIN: And in the update, did you explain the doctor believed it was pneumonia?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: Yes. I gave a basic summary of what I was told by the doctor and what I believed it to be. I think Randy and I had a few minutes to talk, and he typed up another email just to make sure that everybody was in the loop.
MR. GRIFFIN: Okay, and --
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: I'm sorry, not an email. A text message.
MR. GRIFFIN: A text message.
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: I'm sorry.
MR. GRIFFIN: And did the diagnosis and prognosis subsequently change on your dad?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: It did. It did.
MR. GRIFFIN: When was that?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: Well, so on Tuesday afternoon we're back out at Almeda -- I mean, sorry, we're back at Moselle. And, you know, we still hadn't heard much. I mean, all of this other stuff going on, as you can imagine, it's just -- it was so much going on. Randy, Randy called me and told me that they had done everything that they could do, and that he would be coming home in an ambulance under hospice care.
MR. GRIFFIN: And did he die on June the 10th?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: He died, I think, two days later.
MR. GRIFFIN: There's -- take your time.
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: That's all right.
MR. GRIFFIN: Going back to taking your dad to the doctor and then checking him into the hospital, there's some vehicles being switched around a little bit, and we'll get to, you know, that. Can you explain to the jury how all of that transportation went to get your dad to the hospital or doctor --
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: You're talking about on that Monday for me to get him --
MR. GRIFFIN: Yes, on June the 7th.
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: It's a little bit complicated, but I'll do my best to explain it. So, Randy on Monday morning -- Dad had been in the hospital Sunday, got out Sunday, knew that he needed to been seen by the regular doctor but did not have an appointment. And so Randy was doing everything he could to get him in as early as he could on that Monday, and just asked me, says if I get an appointment, can you take him? And I said absolutely. I would be delighted to. A little while later, an hour or two, I don't know, still that morning, Randy calls me and says okay, they have an opening for him but he has to get there right away. So, Hampton is what an hour and a half from Savannah, hour and -- I don't know, hour and a half. He said you don't have time to drive to Hampton to get him. I will meet you in Ridgeland about halfway, which is not far from my house, and then you just take him and I'll go back. He had some time sensitive things to work on. So, we met at Palmetto Coop in Ridgeland.
I got in my mom's car with my dad, Randy got in my truck and drove it back to Almeda where Randy had come to pick up my dad. So, Randy's truck is back at Mom and Dad's house. I drive Dad to Savannah in my mom's car, go through what we just talked about, the doctor's appointment, getting checked in. And back then there was -- Covid was still going on and there were several restrictions. They wouldn't let me go back with my dad at that time. So, I was going to be driving home, and now I'm stuck in my mom's car. So, I knew Paul was working, and it was -- I guess it was around 5:00 or so, and that's when we closed. I called Paul and said, Paul, listen. I need you to, if you would, drive my mom's car back to Almeda, pick up my truck, and bring it to work the next morning, and then just leave your -- he was driving a, like, a farm truck that day. I said leave it and I'll drive it and we'll just swap back the next morning. And so that's how our cars got swapped.
MR. GRIFFIN: All right. So, when you got back on the evening of the 7th, did you see Paul?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: I did.
MR. GRIFFIN: And where did you see him?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: At my house.
MR. GRIFFIN: And, and he, he got into your mom's --
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: Got into my mom's car, right, and drove it to Almeda, and then got in my truck and drove it to Moselle.
MR. GRIFFIN: Okay, and you said the farm truck was at your house. Do you remember where Paul's truck was?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: Paul's normal truck was in the shop being worked on.
MR. GRIFFIN: Was that Jimmy Butler's?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: It was a shop in Varnville, Jimmy Butler's, yes, sir.
MR. GRIFFIN: Okay. Now, when you last saw Paul, was he just as normal as you see him every day or was --
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: Oh, absolutely. He was playing with my kids in the yard waiting on me to get there. In fact, that particular day he was pretty dirty, so whatever he'd been doing back at work had him pretty dirty, but he was playing with the kids in the yard being Paul.
MR. GRIFFIN: Is that the last time you saw him?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: That is the last time I saw him.
MR. GRIFFIN: When did you learn that, and how did you learn that Maggie and Paul were murdered on the night of June the 7th?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: Well, I -- Alex called me, and Liz and I, we don't -- we have three young kids, younger kids. Our youngest is eight now, so would have been six at the time, so we don't have a lot of free time to ourselves. But that night we were watching television, and --
MR. GRIFFIN: Well, let me back up. Had Alex called you earlier in the night when he was on his way to his mom's?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: Oh, yes, sir. Yes, sir.
MR. GRIFFIN: And we've got phone records of that. What do you recall of that conversation?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: He called, you know, just checking on me. Just said, you know, I saw the news about dad. Things looked good, you know. It was a brief conversation, and I hate to say it but I just kind of said listen, man, Liz and I finally have a few minutes. Can we talk tomorrow? We're watching a movie.
MR. GRIFFIN: And what was his demeanor when you spoke with him on the evening of the 7th?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: Same as always, just normal.
MR. GRIFFIN: And then later on that night, you got another phone call from him?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: And I got the -- when you asked the question how did I learn, that's -- yes, Alex called me just absolutely hysterical. As soon as I heard his voice, I knew something bad was going on. Didn't know what. And, you know, I'm in my pajamas. He said, you know, something bad has really happened. I don't know his exact words, but I think he said Maggie and Paul have been hurt really badly. Please get here as fast as you can. And, you know, I dropped what I'm doing. I go get dressed. I'm hurrying. I'm, you know -- just so many things are going through your mind, you don't know what to do. So, I get dressed and I run outside, realize I don't have a car. I have -- Paul's car is out there, and it's a hunch a junk. I mean, you know --
MR. GRIFFIN: This was the farm truck?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: This was the farm truck, and so I knew I couldn't take my wife's car because she was taking the kids to school. At this point, you know, I knew something bad. I just didn't know how bad it was.
MR. GRIFFIN: And so did you then get in the farm truck and head to Moselle?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: I did. I did.
MR. GRIFFIN: And what happened along the way?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: Well, so along the way I'd spoken to Randy. He asked me to try to get in touch with a close family friend, one of their law partners, Danny Henderson. I was just constantly trying to call him. I'm driving. I'm fast, just trying to get to Moselle. And, you know, and once I got Danny and told him that he needed to get up there, you know, I had just a few minutes to myself, and I guess I was crying. And somebody called me shortly after that. I don't know -- I don't know who it was, I can't remember, but I remember -- it was either Alex or Randy, I believe, and they said -- the sheets were being pulled over them.
MR. GRIFFIN: Did the farm truck breakdown?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: It did.
MR. GRIFFIN: How did you end up getting to Moselle?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: Well, let me back up in the day. So, the route that - - from my house down in Okatie/Beaufort takes me to Coosawhatchie and I get on 95 to go to Yemassee and getting off and coming that way. Well, another close family friend, his name is Greg Alexander, he is the chief police in Yemassee, I reached out to him and I just say Greg, you know -- I gave him -- said something bad had happened. Again, I don't know when I was told about the sheets, but I told him, I said listen, something bad has happened. We've got to get out there. When I get to Yemassee, can you please help make sure I get to Moselle because this truck is sputtering and I know it wasn't good, and he met me at Yemassee. He fell in behind me, and we started driving until he finally passed me in Varnville and -- okay.
MR. GRIFFIN: And did he end up driving you the rest of the way?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: Well, he did. So, he passed me shortly before Varnville and he took a right on 63, and he was a little ways ahead of me when the truck quit on me. I called him and said Greg. I said, you know, come back and get me. The truck has broken down. And, of course, picked me up and took me straight on to Moselle.
MR. GRIFFIN: Did -- were there any guns in the farm truck that Paul had left when you got in it?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: I have no idea. It was dark when I got in it. As y'all can imagine, I was frantic. I jumped in it and I took off.
MR. GRIFFIN: Did you ever see any guns in it?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: That night? Never. I mean, I didn't look. I mean, it just -- I wasn't looking in the back seat. I wasn't worried about anything except getting to Moselle.
MR. GRIFFIN: Okay. Do you remember about the time that you got to Moselle? What time was it roughly? Or better yet, who was there when you got there?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: Well, there were -- I mean, well before I got to Moselle -- we got to Moselle, you could see the lights flashing. It was just -- there were tons of people, mostly what you would describe as first responders of some sort.
MR. GRIFFIN: And when you pulled up, where did you go?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: So, we came in the main gate and came around, and they had created, I guess, a small crime scene. And when we pulled up I saw Alex, and I think before Greg even stopped the car I jumped out and ran to him.
MR. GRIFFIN: And what was his condition, Alex's?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: Oh, he was just broke. I mean, distraught. I mean, everybody was. There were a few other people there. He just -- all we did was hug and cry. We didn't -- I don't know who talked.
MR. GRIFFIN: How long did you stay down adjacent to the crime scene? Do you recall?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: Quite some time. You know, I have to assume that I probably was there at 11:00ish. I don't know what time I got there, but I don't think we went back up to the house, you know, until well after midnight, maybe 2:00, 3:00.
MR. GRIFFIN: And when you went to the house, do you recall if any SLED agents came up there?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: Well, I did not see any. I overheard some testimony that someone came and got some clothes, but I did not see any SLED agents at the house. The last officer that I remember seeing that night were officers -- were the ones that told us that we needed to leave that area, that they were going to be doing stuff with the bodies and we needed to go to the house.
MR. GRIFFIN: Right. When you went into the house, were there other people in there when you got in?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: There were. You know, most people that I knew: some of Alex's partners, Randy's partners, family members, Lynn.
MR. GRIFFIN: Was there food out, or had food -- what was -- had anything -- well, did you see food?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: I didn't see any food, but I saw pots and pans, and I saw folks that were cleaning up. They were removing pots and pans, but, you know, I never opened it and looked in it, so I presumed it was food. We cleaned dishes and put pots and pans away or in the refrigerator.
MR. GRIFFIN: Was the TV on in the house? Do you remember?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: You know, based on what I know, I would say it is, but I can't -- I can't tell you 100 percent that it was on, but I would be willing to bet it was.
MR. GRIFFIN: Well, what do you mean when you say based on what you know?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: Well, I don't think I had ever been in that house without the TV being on if Alex and Maggie were there.
MR. GRIFFIN: After -- well, did you ultimately go to Almeda that evening with Alex, Buster, and his girlfriend, Brooklynn?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: We did.
MR. GRIFFIN: Do you remember what Alex was wearing when he went to Almeda?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: Not precisely. He was wearing shorts and a t-shirt. I can't tell you details, but it was shorts and a t-shirt, you know, like relaxed shorts.
MR. GRIFFIN: Do you know whether he had had a shower or not?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: It appeared he had. I mean, his hair was not -- yeah. I didn't see him in the shower, but I can tell you I think he had a shower.
MR. GRIFFIN: I understand. So, then let's move forward to the morning of June the 8th, I guess. Did you get any sleep the night of June the 7th?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: Very little. I don't know that I fell asleep. I certainly laid in the bed. It just -- as you can imagine, just the thoughts and -- I don't know if I slept. When I got up and started moving the next day, I certainly didn't feel like I had slept.
MR. GRIFFIN: What did you do the next day when you got up?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: You talking about precisely or generally?
MR. GRIFFIN: Just generally.
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: I got up, and Alex was up. I don't think Buster was up. I told Alex that I was going over to -- Greenfield, my farm that I told y'all about, is 2 or 3 miles away, so it was very close. I have all -- you know, plenty of clothes over there. So, I told him I was going over there to shower and put on fresh clothes and that I would meet him at Moselle.
MR. GRIFFIN: And did you go to Moselle?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: I did after I left Greenfield, yes, sir.
MR. GRIFFIN: And do you remember who was there when you got to Moselle?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: I was the first one there.
MR. GRIFFIN: And what did you do?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: Just went and stayed there until -- I knew Buster, Brooklyn, and Alex were coming. I suspected that other family members and partners -- I knew others were coming, so I just kind of sat there just, you know, just in disbelief still. It was just, you know, moments of just --
MR. GRIFFIN: Was the door to the house unlocked? Do you remember?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: You know, that's a good question. I thought about that. I don't remember.
MR. GRIFFIN: Okay.
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: It either was unlocked or I had the code because there is a keypad on a side door. But I can't tell you which door I went in. I don't know.
MR. GRIFFIN: The -- did you eventually go down to the kennels?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: I did. I did. You know, once everyone got there and it was just -- there was, you know, a fair amount of activity in the house with family and law partners, Alex's law partners, Randy's law partners. You know, I just felt like I needed to go down. I needed to see for myself what had gone on and just, you know, kind of take it in, I mean, maybe for some type of understanding.
MR. GRIFFIN: How long did you stay down there at the kennels?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: Well, I can't -- I don't know. But I will say this. Before I went, I was -- I was unsure whether I was allowed to go because I knew it was a crime scene. And so I reached out to a friend of mine in law enforcement and said listen, I don't know who's handling the crime scene, I don't know whatever, and he said, well, I'll find out and make sure that it's clear for you to go. And he said don't go until, you know, I tell you. And he called me back in a few minutes later and said he had spoken to -- oh, I believe it was Captain Ryan Neill, and had given the okay, that everything was released and it was okay to go there.
MR. GRIFFIN: And was it cleaned up?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: No, Jim, it was not cleaned up.
MR. GRIFFIN: Were there skull fragments?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: Yeah. You know, so -- excuse me, y'all, this is going to be really difficult. So, I could easily see where Maggie had been. You know, I saw the night before where the sheets were, but -- and somebody had told me that -- who was who, and so I could see where Maggie had been. And it was grass, and you know, they had covered it up with dirt, so there really was nothing to see where Maggie was. I walked over to the feed room, and y'all have heard the description. Y'all saw it. I've never seen pictures, and I've told them before I come to this court that I was not going to see pictures. But y'all can imagine what I experienced. It had not been cleaned up. I saw blood. I saw brains. I saw pieces of skull. And when I say brains, it could just be tissue. I don't know what all -- it was terrible. And for some reason I thought it was my -- something that I needed to do for Paul to clean it up. I felt like it was the right thing to do.
I felt like I owed him, and I started cleaning, and I can promise you. No mother or father or aunt or uncle should ever have to see and do what I did that day. I don't know. I'm not blaming anybody, but it's -- I was just overwhelmed. I did everything I could. And I would have moments where I would stop crying for a moment and just -- we were just in disbelief. At one point I called my brother Randy and told him what I was doing, trying to describe what I was doing, and he immediately told me to stop doing it, that it was not good for me. It was not healthy for me to be there. I couldn't stop. I just -- I had to do it for Paul, that's just what I had to do. And I don't know, it's probably 15 or 20 minutes later Mark Ball shows up. Y'all heard Mark Ball testify. And he came and hugged me and told me it was okay to leave, okay to leave what was left of Paul, that they would clean it up. It was the hardest thing I've ever been through in my life.
MR. GRIFFIN: Yes, sir. What did you do next?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: You know, Mark basically got me -- and I'm sure I was just a basket case, but he got me back to the house, and, you know, got me back around family, and, you know, just got back to, you know, the support of others that were there. And, you know, there were a lot of people at the house at that point.
MR. GRIFFIN: Do you remember when you got back to the house at some point in time people raising questions, or bringing up the fact that Maggie's phone had not been located?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: Yes. So, there were -- you know, particularly the lawyers, they were all, you know, being lawyers, you know, they were questioning things amongst themselves, and, you know, how could this happen, trying to figure things out. But it was brought to my attention that Maggie's phone was not there, and that law enforcement had not found it. And I can't say that -- in fact, I can probably say that I didn't think of it because I'm not a big phone user or a big app user or whatnot, but somebody brought to my attention, said listen, if Buster or Alex, if they have an app on their phone like Find My Phone or Find My Friends, or an app like that, they said you very likely could find out where the phone is if the battery is not dead. And so I went to Buster, and sure enough, I said, Buster, do you have one of these apps like there are talking about? And he said yeah, sure I do. And I said, well, open it up. He opened it up and he handed me the phone, and I see Maggie's name, and I press it to activate it, and it pings Maggie's phone just out front of the property. I was like -- I hate to say it. I said holy shit, there it is. And I said, Buster, I'm taking your phone and I'm going to go back down to the shed and show it to law enforcement.
MR. GRIFFIN: And did you -- who did you approach first about the phone?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: Well, I don't know who it was. Presumably it was SLED agents because, keep in mind, I didn't know any of these guys with SLED. I mean, I did know a couple of faces that I had seen before, but I don't know these guys. I've come to know them, but I don't know them, or didn't know them then. So, I went up to a SLED agent -- or two SLED agents and I said -- presumably SLED agents, and say hey, I've got Buster's phone here, and it's got an app on it that can find a phone, and it's showing Maggie's phones right out here. Let's -- y'all want to -- let's go get it? And he said no need. We have technology coming later today that we should be able to find it. And it just -- it blew me away that I'm sitting here showing them where Maggie's phone is, but they won't take the time to walk with me or take this phone itself. I mean, I would give them the phone to go find it. So, I walked over -- I knew Duffy Stone. He was the solicitor. I knew one of his investigators. I walked over there and said the exact same thing, and they immediately said absolutely. Let's go find this thing before the battery goes dead.
MR. GRIFFIN: And what happened?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: We did that. Well, we started -- actually we started walking down the back entrance or the kennel entrance, if you will, and as we were -- at that time the agent was holding the phone and I'm looking at it with him. And the -- when it pings, it creates a dot or a location, and that dot jumped from right at the end of that road down the road, I don't know, maybe a half mile or 3 quarters of a mile. And so we walked back, got into a car, and drove down to where it was showing the phone.
MR. GRIFFIN: And was the phone --
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: And I rode -- I rode with those agents, the solicitor's office agents.
MR. GRIFFIN: Was the phone ultimately located on the side of the road?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: Oh, absolutely. We found it in a matter of minutes.
MR. GRIFFIN: Do you remember how it was collected? I mean, were you present when it was collected?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: I was. So, I was on the -- there was a cow pasture on one side and it's wooded on the other side, and I was on the side that the cow pasture was on, and I heard him say I got it. And so, you know, of course, I walked back beside his car, and -- you know, I'm a good ways from it, but I see him over there. And I think he took either some ribbon or some flagging -- or flagging tape, and marked the phone. And I don't think he touched it. I think he, he left it right where it was, called SLED, and maybe at that time -- maybe they had been communicating, but SLED had blocked off the road at this pint, and one of the agents came up and picked the phone up. And I don't know which agent. Again, I didn't know him.
MR. GRIFFIN: Did any law enforcement officer ask you if you knew the password?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: Yes. So, once they -- and I'll say this. They did pictures of it while it was on the ground before they touched it. They picked it up. I think they had gloves on. They picked it up and brought it back to the trunk of the car and opened it up, and the power is on, and they then asked, you know, what's the password. And, of course, I didn't know it.
MR. GRIFFIN: Did you find out the password?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: I did. I called Alex and he gave me the password. I repeated it to the agent. He put the password in and said it's open.
MR. GRIFFIN: So, Alex provided you the password, you passed it to the agents, and it opened the phone. Is that correct?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: Yes, sir, that's correct.
MR. GRIFFIN: John Marvin, were you aware after a news release that was issued that morning, Tuesday, June 8th, that the public had no need to be alarmed or concerned for their safety?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: Yes, sir.
MR. GRIFFIN: What was your reaction to that?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: I mean, it's quite baffling. It still is. Two people have been killed and you're telling me that everybody is safe. That tells me that whoever has done this is in jail and they are 100 percent positive that -- because if they're not in jail, nobody is safe.
MR. GRIFFIN: Did you go back to the residence at Moselle after finding the phone? Did you go back up to the house?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: Yes, sir, I did.
MR. GRIFFIN: And did SLED agents come through and search it while you were present?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: They did. I don't know how long I had been back up there, but they came, and we kind of talked in the playroom, or I think someone described it as the gun room. Yeah. They talked about that they needed to come in the house and search for things.
MR. GRIFFIN: And did you escort -- I think it was Agent McCallister, throughout the house?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: Yes, it was Katie McCallister.
MR. GRIFFIN: And did she tell you what she was looking for?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: Well, initially she says -- well, the way she presented it was, you know, there were so many people in the house, she said listen, I don't want to just go barging in and make everybody run out of the house, but I'm going to take my badge off and my gun off, and if you would just walk me through each room. And particularly I'm looking for 12 gauge shotguns and 300 Blackout and the ammunition for those calibers.
MR. GRIFFIN: And as you are walking through the house, were there -- did it appear she was looking for other things besides just guns?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: Well, yeah. I mean, she -- I mean, you could tell she's looking because she looked in spaces that guns wouldn't fit, so it makes sense that she could be looking for something else.
MR. GRIFFIN: Such as what?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: Well, I don't know.
MR. GRIFFIN: Well, I understand, but you said spaces. Did she look in the bathrooms?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: Well, I mean, like I opened up a -- up in the upstairs area there's some cabinets that, you know, a couple of them are pretty small that, you know, she could find ammunition in there, but I don't know how you could get a gun in there.
MR. GRIFFIN: Did she search bathrooms?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: She did. I took her through every room in the house. I mean every single room.
MR. GRIFFIN: Did you observe her looking in sinks and toilets, and --
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: You know, so -- yes, sir. It -- what I observed is like the shower, for example, you know, it's a door. It's not an open shower. She opened the door and she looked around and, you know, she was looking at -- she easily would have known there was no gun in it when she opened it, but it was obvious that she was looking a little deeper.
MR. GRIFFIN: What kind of guns were there at Moselle?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: Well, it sounds like the -- guns of all kinds, you know, rifles, shotguns. I've seen bow and arrows, I've seen crossbows. Most anything that you would hunt with.
MR. GRIFFIN: Right. The -- and were guns mostly in the gun room, to your knowledge, when you were over there?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: Well, when I went through the house, we identified -- I remember one gun in particular that was in the bedroom, a shotgun. I picked it up and said do you need to take this one? And we looked at it, and it was a 20 gauge. She said no, put that one back, so I put it back. Predominately all the guns were in the gun room or the playroom.
MR. GRIFFIN: Right. Sort of an aside briefly, did you hunt with Alex over the years?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: I have.
MR. GRIFFIN: And did he have a go-to gun, to your knowledge, that he would use?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: Not to my knowledge.
MR. GRIFFIN: When is the last time you've ever seen him hunt with a 12 gauge?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: You know, I would say that when he bird hunt, he's either shooting a 20 gauge or a 28. You know, there was a time -- and please don't ask me when, but I would say it was a few years prior to this -- that we were turkey hunting on another piece of property down on the Savannah River, and I know he was hunting with a 12 gauge then. But I don't know whether it was his gun or somebody else.
MR. GRIFFIN: Did that gun have a sticker on it? Do you know?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: It did. And --
MR. GRIFFIN: Do you remember what the sticker said?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: No, I don't remember what the sticker said. But I do remember teasing Alex when you turkey hunt and you don't want to be seen, and a big sticker on the side of your barrel is kind like waving a white flag to a turkey.
MR. GRIFFIN: Did you serve as somewhat of a liaison or the point person with SLED and the family initially?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: I don't know that I would call it a liaison or point person. But I had absolutely -- I had come to know Agent David Owens, and I absolutely told David, I said listen, if you need anything from me or anybody and you can't get in touch with them, you reach out to me. I'll either see to it that they call you back, I will see to it that you get the answers that you're looking for, or I will put you in touch with the person you're trying to reach. So, I did make myself available.
MR. GRIFFIN: And did Alex give, to your knowledge, carte blanche to law enforcement to search anywhere that they wished?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: Oh, he did. In fact, before I was going to just do something, you know, I knew that to be the case, but yes, he confirmed it with me: anything they needed, any time they needed it.
MR. GRIFFIN: And you provided consent to search the house the afternoon on the 8th on his behalf, did you not?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: I did, and I've consented every time they've ever asked.
MR. GRIFFIN: We'll get to that. Were you ever asked to provide consent, or see if you could obtain consent for any law enforcement to search your mom's house where Alex had been the night before?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: Can you say that to me one more time?
MR. GRIFFIN: Did any law enforcement ask you to consent or obtain consent so that law enforcement could search Almeda -- and I'm talking about on the 8th -- because Alex had just been there the night before?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: Right.
MR. GRIFFIN: Did anybody ask you, hey, can we go search Almeda?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: No one asked anything.
MR. GRIFFIN: Okay. If asked, would you have obtained consent for law enforcement?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: I would have given them consent, and I would have taken them over there just like I did at Alex's house, and I would have helped facilitate the search to show them areas that they may not know about.
MR. GRIFFIN: Do you remember law enforcement SLED agents coming to your Greenfield property on June the 10th?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: Yes, sir, I do.
MR. GRIFFIN: And what was that about?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: Well, I assume they coordinated it with Alex or Randy. You know, I'm not sure who they coordinated it with, but yes, my understanding is they were coming to interview me, Randy, Alex, Buster, I think that's it, but they wanted to do interviews with all of us.
MR. GRIFFIN: And did everyone congregate there at Greenfield?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: Yes, sir. Oh, we were at Greenfield. Of course, you know, that's where -- we're staying there because of all this -- and so it keeps me close to Hampton, so -- but, yes, we all congregated there.
MR. GRIFFIN: And when the agents arrived, did they come inside and sit down and talk with each of you, or how did that work?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: No, sir, I offered them -- I offered them to come inside. As you can imagine, it was hot. I said come in and, you know, offered them a drink of water, whatever, just being polite. And they said no, you know. We would like to go ahead and start our interviews.
MR. GRIFFIN: And where did the interviews take place?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: In their cars.
MR. GRIFFIN: And were they all done simultaneously?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: Yes, sir.
MR. GRIFFIN: How many SLED agent cars were out there? Do you remember?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: Well, there was one for each person they were interviewing, and I would go ahead and guess that there were probably two or three more.
MR. GRIFFIN: And I'm not sure that we need to actually play this, but have you been in the courtroom and even heard this audio tape of Alex being interviewed on that June 10th where he is -- states something either I did him so bad or they did him so bad? Have you heard that?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: I have.
MR. GRIFFIN: And you know Alex's voice?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: I know his voice very well.
MR. GRIFFIN: And what is he saying on that tape?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: Crystal clear: they did him so bad.
MR. GRIFFIN: Have you heard him say that before his interview that day?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: You know, I think I heard him say it either the night of or the day after, but I've have also heard him say it many times after.
MR. GRIFFIN: Well before this trial started or anything.
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: Well before any of this, that's right. When he was -- when he was staying and living with us or between my brother and us.
MR. GRIFFIN: After Maggie and Paul were murdered on that night of June 7th, was -- were you or other family members with Alex for the most part, you know, for that week, and the week after that?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: You're talking about the days following?
MR. GRIFFIN: Yes, sir.
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: Yes, sir, I was. I made a conscious effort to be with him. I mean, as devastating as it was for me, it was a thousands times worse for him, so I knew as a brother I needed to be there for him. And I was, you know. Of course, I didn't sleep with him, but when we were awake, you know, he was -- you know, I may not be standing beside him, but we would be in the room together. Or if we needed to go to the gas station, he wanted dip, you know, I would ride with him. It just -- I just knew that's -- I just thought that's what I needed to do.
MR. GRIFFIN: What was his demeanor in that immediate aftermath of these murders?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: Oh Jim, that night, or days, or --
MR. GRIFFIN: That night, the next day, the day after?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: Like I just said, he is -- you can use words that he was destroyed. I heard somebody said he was broken. You can use any words you want to use to describe, but I can promise you words don't do it justice; I would have to create a new word to describe how distraught he was. It was just terrible.
MR. GRIFFIN: And did -- carry it forward all through the summer, did he -- how was he coping afterwards, say, later June and July going forward?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: You know, it's hard to tell. I thought he -- at times I thought he was doing okay. Other times, you know, it would be just sheer grief. I mean, just uncontrollably crying and just -- you know. Of course, it makes me crazy. As y'all can tell, I'm a pretty emotional guy. We would just -- we would cry together. It was -- and there's no answers. It's just -- and there's nothing I can say to make it better other than just hug him.
MR. GRIFFIN: Did he start losing weight?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: Oh, yes, sir, absolutely.
MR. GRIFFIN: Was he eating? Sleeping?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: He was pretty heavy going into this, and he -- you know, he lost a good bit of weight. I don't know how many pounds, but it became very obvious in a very short period of time he lost weight.
MR. GRIFFIN: I skipped over something in my outline. I apologize, but going back on the evening of June 7th or early morning hours, did folks who were there at Almeda raise questions about perhaps the murder of Maggie and Paul were somehow associated --
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: You mean at Moselle?
MR. GRIFFIN: Yeah, the -- Moselle. Going back to -- on the evening of June 7th and June 8th, did folks at Moselle raise issues or associate the potential motive for the murder to be related to the boating accident at some point?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: Well, I heard it. I heard it numerous times that night. I heard it at Moselle, and I actually heard it by -- well, Greg, Chief Alexander, mentioned it. You know, once I got over the chaotic part of describing what we were doing and why I needed to get to Moselle, he asked me -- you know, he's driving in front of me, and he asked me do you think it's related to the boat accident? And, of course, I said, Greg, I don't know. I don't know anything about what's happened.
MR. GRIFFIN: You're aware of the boating accident and Paul's charges --
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: Yes, sir.
MR. GRIFFIN: -- and you're aware -- and was there a backlash in the community with that?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: Well, it was. There was a lot of backlash. I would not say quite as much in the community, but as on social media, and media inflamed rumors is the way I would describe it.
MR. GRIFFIN: Right.
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: That just -- it was just totally blown out of proportion. And I don't want to downplay the accident, but what they were saying about the -- the stuff about Paul and Alex, it was just totally inflamed. And you asked about the boating accident. So, I told y'all that I called Michael Paul, my friend, to make sure I could go to the crime scene the next morning. Well, Michael Paul is one of my best friends, if not my best friend. I called him that night while we were still down at the crime scene, not because he's in law enforcement, not because of anything. Because he's my friend. And I actually told him on the phone, I said MP, is what I -- I said MP, I don't even know why I called you. I just needed to talk to somebody. And we talked and, you know, cried a little bit after I -- and he didn't know what had happened, so I told him, and, you know, I cried, and you could tell he was upset. But in that conversation he asked me also do you think --
MR. CONRAD: Objection.
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: -- do you think it could be related to the boating accident?
JUDGE NEWMAN: I sustain the objection.
MR. GRIFFIN: Switching gears a little bit, John Marvin. When -- I want it talk to you about visiting at your mom's house, your mom and dad's house. There's -- let's talk -- where do you routinely park, or where do you park sometimes when going over to your mom and dad's house?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: Are you asking where I parked?
MR. GRIFFIN: You and others in the family.
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: Well, there's a couple of places you could park depending on who is there, whether there's other cars there, you know. You can either park at the -- what you call the carport, and there's a big dirt area beside it. You can park there, walk up to the side door, or you can pull around to the back corner and park there. You know, it's -- we always used both spots.
MR. GRIFFIN: I'm going to pull up and, you know, look at it on your screen --
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: As a matter of fact -- I told you it was my mom's birthday. I went there yesterday, and I pulled right into the back of the house, but I didn't turn around. I circled the house. So, there's --
MR. GRIFFIN: I'm going to pull up State's Exhibit 524.
MR. GRIFFIN: It's in evidence, Doug, and go to slide 38. This is the GPS OnStar data. And, Doug, if you will blow up around the house, please, sir.
MR. GRIFFIN: Mr. Murdaugh, this is your mom's house, and this is GPS data from the night of June the 7th. Do you see the red line there?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: It's pretty blurry on my screen. I don't know about y'all's.
MR. GRIFFIN: Well, do you want to back it out a little bit, Doug?
MR. GRIFFIN: Is that better?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: Yes, sir. It's still blurry, but I can see.
MR. GRIFFIN: Where is that in relation to your mom's house?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: You're talking about the -- right there where the arrow is pointing?
MR. GRIFFIN: Yes, sir.
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: That's in the back corner of the house.
MR. GRIFFIN: Okay.
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: That would be exactly where I parked yesterday.
MR. GRIFFIN: All right.
MR. GRIFFIN: And if you'll pull up, Doug, Exhibit 136.
MR. GRIFFIN: This will be Defendant's Exhibit 136 in evidence. Can you tell me where that is?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: That's the same area. That's what I'm talking about.
MR. GRIFFIN: Is that the same area we just saw on the last exhibit with the red dots?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: Yes, sir.
MR. GRIFFIN: Okay.
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: Generally speaking. I mean, there's no -- it's such a wide open area, so when you pull up, you're not, like, pulling into the exact same spot each time to where you're creating a road or whatnot. It's just a nice grassy area. You pull up, walk to the back door, and you're right there at the back of the house.
MR. GRIFFIN: And why do you go to the back of the house?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: With my mom -- when my dad was alive, there's a little breakfast room there with a recliner in it. He was either in that recliner, at the table eating, in the bed, or not at home. I mean, that literally was his --
MR. GRIFFIN: Okay.
MR. GRIFFIN: So, Doug, if you'll pull up Defendant's 137.
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: So, everything is at the back of the house.
MR. GRIFFIN: Right.
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: They don't use -- it's a large home and they just don't -- you know, as old as they are -- and my mom can't get out of bed -- as old as they are, they don't want to go to the front.
MR. GRIFFIN: I'm sorry, just skip that. 131. Defendant's 131 in evidence, please.
MR. GRIFFIN: Again, is this sort of the same area photographed from a different direction?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: Yes, sir.
MR. GRIFFIN: Now, what's that structure that we see in the background past that big oak tree?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: That was my dad's cook house, or man cave as some people would call it. That's --
MR. GRIFFIN: Okay, and how far is that from the house roughly?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: You know, I would guess 60 to 80 yards.
MR. GRIFFIN: Okay, and that's -- and is it open around there? I mean, from the photo, is that accurate?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: Oh, absolutely.
MR. GRIFFIN: All right.
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: That whole area is a grassy area with oak trees and pecan trees.
MR. GRIFFIN: Okay. Great, thanks. John Marvin, I want to go to Labor Day weekend of 2021. Where were you that weekend? Do you remember?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: Labor Day weekend '21?
MR. GRIFFIN: When Alex went to the hospital.
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: Okay. Yeah. Yes. Yes. So, I had been out West fishing and I came in on Saturday night.
MR. GRIFFIN: Prior to Labor Day weekend 2021, were you aware as to whether or not Alex had an opioid addiction?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: No, sir.
MR. GRIFFIN: Did you transport Alex, driving Alex from the hospital in Savannah to a detox facility in Atlanta that weekend or --
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: Well, I believe it would have been on that Monday. I was not driving. Randy and I took him. Randy was driving, I was in the back, but yes, sir, we did take him to a detox facility.
MR. GRIFFIN: And where was the facility located?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: Just outside of Atlanta.
MR. GRIFFIN: And what was -- can you describe for the jury Alex's condition, like, physical condition in the car?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: Yes, sir. So, when I met Randy over in Savannah, he had Alex, and I got in the car, or Randy's truck, with them, I had never seen anything like it. I've seen television shows of talking about the leg twitching and the squirminess (sic), if you will, and that's the first thing. I mean, you could just tell he was sweating. He was thrashing about. You know, Jim, it -- I don't know how much detail you want me to go into.
MR. GRIFFIN: Well, did he turn around in the seat of the car, and what was he doing?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: Yeah. So, maybe halfway there, at one point he had taken his seat belt off and he had his head down where your fanny would be in the seat trying to stretch his legs and just kind of steady, like, thrashing and kicking them. It's just -- again, I've seen TV, but I've never seen something like this in real life.
MR. GRIFFIN: And was he able to control himself?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: No, sir. No. Like I said about details, so he messed himself. He had diarrhea. He just couldn't control it.
MR. GRIFFIN: And then --
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: And I say diarrhea. I'm not talk about at a restroom. I'm talking about in the car in his pants.
MR. GRIFFIN: And after he spent some time in the facility in Atlanta, did you and your brother go pick him up and take him to another facility in Orlando, Florida?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: Yes, sir, we did.
MR. GRIFFIN: Do you remember that?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: Yes, sir, I do.
MR. GRIFFIN: On the drive to Orlando, do you remember anything that happened that stands out to you?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: You know, so that drive he was much different. He was more subdued. He was not -- it not the thrashiness (sic), not the twitching, not the jerkiness, if you will. I don't know the words that you would use for that, but that's what I'm saying. The only thing that really stood out for me is he was -- and he slept a lot of the time, but he woke up from sleeping, and when he woke up, I mean, he jerked forward, and you could just tell that -- I mean, it was sheer terror that -- just -- he just woke up out of a horrible, horrible dream. And I believe it was him dreaming about what he found with Paul and Maggie.
MR. GRIFFIN: Keep going a little further, Mr. Murdaugh. At some time in September, did SLED actually come and search the house at Almeda?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: Yes, sir.
MR. GRIFFIN: Were you present?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: I was.
MR. GRIFFIN: And did -- were you informed as to what items were seized during that search?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: I was informed of one item that was seized.
MR. GRIFFIN: And what item was that?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: It was described as a coat.
MR. GRIFFIN: What kind of coat?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: Well, they didn't tell me what kind of coat.
MR. GRIFFIN: Okay, and did they tell you where the coat was found?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: Yes, sir. And so I would assume that the searching of the house, all of that was winding down, so Agent David Owens and I -- I believe Randy was outside near us but he may have been talking to somebody else. I'm not sure. He may have been talking to another agent. I'm not sure. But David Owens or Agent Owens came up to me and said we found a coat back on the property. Do you know anything about it? And I said, well, David, I said, if you found it back on the property, I said, it's a large piece of property, some 400 and something acres. I said my dad rides this Kubota side-by-side. It's probably his. I said if you show it to me, I can try to identify it. And, of course, he said he couldn't show it to me, or wouldn't show it to me. I'm not sure what it was.
MR. GRIFFIN: Were you some time later asked to view a photo of a blue raincoat?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: I was. Well, I was asked to view a raincoat and listen to an audiotape.
MR. GRIFFIN: Of the kennel?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: Yes, sir.
MR. GRIFFIN: On the blue raincoat, were you informed where it was seized from?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: Well, I knew where it was seized from because he'd already told me. But I was -- in this instance, I was told that they wanted us to -- when I say us, they asked Randy, Lynn, and I to go view the coat and the tape. At this point I knew where it had been recovered, but they said we want you to view a coat that had come -- been recovered out of a closet.
MR. GRIFFIN: Okay, and was that different from what you were led to believe when you --
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: Oh, absolutely.
MR. GRIFFIN: Had you ever -- did they ever provide any -- anybody provide an explanation about why you were given two different locations where the coat was found?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: To this day, no one has told me that.
MR. GRIFFIN: The photo of the coat that they showed you, had you ever seen that raincoat before?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: No, sir.
MR. GRIFFIN: Was it the blue raincoat that --
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: Well, it certainly looked similar to the one -- I saw a picture. I didn't see the coat itself, but it certainly looked to be similar or the same.
MR. GRIFFIN: Have you ever seen it before?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: No, sir.
MR. GRIFFIN: Did you recognize what closet it came out of from the photos during this trial?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: Well, when I saw that I think I knew what closet they're referring to. There's only two --
MR. GRIFFIN: Let me ask you, and I'm sorry. The closet as you go up on the first flight of stairs before you go at the landing right there, what -- what's kept there?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: Clothing. Not everyday clothing. Clothing that's more or less in storage. Junk. You know, it's not a -- it's not a -- first of all, my dad wouldn't climb the stairs even if he could, but he couldn't.
MR. GRIFFIN: Right. The -- there's some testimony that there's GSR on that raincoat. Have you got any idea on how there could be GSR on clothing in your dad's closet at Almeda?
MR. CONRAD: Objection.
JUDGE NEWMAN: Sustained.
MR. GRIFFIN: Did your dad carry guns around with him?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: No, not like -- not in the sense that you're saying. So, he was not like Paul that always had guns with him. You know, he would keep a gun. If he went dove hunting, for example, and we went on a dove hunt, that gun may ride with him for two months. It just would stay with him. He just wouldn't -- the same with golf clubs back when he would play golf. It was just a bunch of junk in his truck.
MR. GRIFFIN: During hunting season, was there normally a gun in the back seat?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: During hunting season, I would say that there usually would be. In fact, during hunting season -- because he always hunted. He always loved to go on a bird hunt.
MR. GRIFFIN: Did he have a specific gun that he used frequently?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: Oh, he had one gun.
MR. GRIFFIN: Did that gun have a name?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: It did. It was called Bowoop.
MR. GRIFFIN: And did he clean it often?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: I'd never seen him clean it. He got that gun in 19 -- I believe in 1957 for his high school graduation, and he used it for every game that he chased. I'm sure it got cleaned somewhere with along the way, but I had never seen him clean it, and I still haven't seen him clean it.
MR. GRIFFIN: Got it.
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: I don't know how the thing still worked.
MR. GRIFFIN: Along the way, have you been receiving updates from SLED on their investigation in the -- Maggie and Paul's murder?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: Usually when I call, I would call Agent Owens and ask for updates, and he would try to provide some updates. It almost always seemed like there were stuff that he really -- I don't know, and I don't know whether he didn't know or just -- he wasn't able to say at the time. I'm not sure. But, yeah, I think he would try to give updates as best as possible.
MR. GRIFFIN: And you provided information on evidence that they had against your brother?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: I have been, yes, sir, some of it.
MR. GRIFFIN: And the information -- some of the information that you've been provided turned out not to be accurate information.
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: Yes, sir.
MR. GRIFFIN: What type information?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: Well, I was told that -- at one point that there was a t-shirt that he was wearing, and -- can I back up and tell you how we got in this conversation?
MR. GRIFFIN: Sure.
MR. CONRAD: Objection.
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: So, I'm having a meeting with SLED --
MR. CONRAD: Calls for hearsay.
JUDGE NEWMAN: Hold on. Yes, sir, the nature of the objection?
MR. CONRAD: Calls for hearsay.
MR. GRIFFIN: A statement of an opponent, Your Honor, an agent.
JUDGE NEWMAN: Say again?
MR. GRIFFIN: It's a statement of a party opponent.
JUDGE NEWMAN: Party opponent.
MR. GRIFFIN: The agent of the party opponent. It's a SLED agent.
JUDGE NEWMAN: Agent of the party's opponent.
MR. GRIFFIN: Yes, sir.
JUDGE NEWMAN: All right, ladies and gentlemen, I'm going to have you take a break. Please do not discuss the case.
(The jury left the courtroom.)
JUDGE NEWMAN: All right, everybody be seated. I will hear this. I will hear this objection again.
MR. CONRAD: The State is objecting. It calls for hearsay.
JUDGE NEWMAN: All right, and your response to the -- Mr. --
MR. GRIFFIN: Yes, Your Honor --
JUDGE NEWMAN: Just a moment, sir.
MR. GRIFFIN: Oh, I'm sorry.
JUDGE NEWMAN: Mr. Conrad's response to Mr. Griffin.
MR. CONRAD: Your Honor, I think his argument was it's a statement, it's an admission by a party opponent, and I don't think we're talking about --
JUDGE NEWMAN: He said an agent of a party opponent.
MR. CONRAD: Right, and the subsection 801D2 I think is what we're referencing, and it talks about admission by a party opponent, and it doesn't necessarily talk about the statement. And I think what we're getting into are some statements by -- particularly law enforcement officers who've already been on the stand, and I don't think those are admissions to the issues that's at relevance in this case.
JUDGE NEWMAN: Mr. Griffin?
MR. GRIFFIN: Your Honor, it's directly relevant. The statements relate to evidence that they told the family they have against Mr. Murdaugh.
JUDGE NEWMAN: You said it's directly relevant?
MR. GRIFFIN: Yes, sir.
JUDGE NEWMAN: So, the objection not based on relevance.
MR. GRIFFIN: Oh, I thought that's what -- so, a statement of a party opponent is non-hearsay under the definition of hearsay, Your Honor. It's -- I don't have the rule in front of me, but --
JUDGE NEWMAN: The State of South Carolina is a party opponent in this case?
MR. GRIFFIN: And SLED is the investigating agency, yes, sir. If -- otherwise, the rule would not apply in a criminal case. I mean, that's -- it has to be the investigating agency. I'm not asking for Colleton County's statements or -- it's the --
JUDGE NEWMAN: Well, you've gotten those in already, the newspaper statements of Colleton County, the newspaper or whatever.
MR. GRIFFIN: Yes, sir.
JUDGE NEWMAN: What else, Mr. --
MR. CONRAD: Mr. Conrad, Your Honor.
JUDGE NEWMAN: -- Conrad.
MR. CONRAD: I would also object for the relevance as well, Your Honor, because the State has not offered this shirt into evidence. The defense is attempting to kind of backdoor here, and it simply doesn't go to anything that's -- issue in this trial.
JUDGE NEWMAN: He has already testified to a shirt.
MR. CONRAD: Well, to the shirt. But he's trying to get in evidence -- and maybe we need to proffer it to see exactly what he would say, but my assumption was that he was going to start talking about a report by Mr. Bevel, which we've talked about several times in this case, and I would object to the relevance and -- to particularly Mr. Murdaugh bringing it up.
JUDGE NEWMAN: All right. What -- tell me again what you're asking the witness. Or proffer it to the witness.
MR. GRIFFIN: Yes.
PROFFERED EXAMINATION
BY MR. GRIFFIN:
MR. GRIFFIN: So, Mr. Murdaugh, what information were you provided by -- was if a SLED agent that provided you that information?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: Yes, sir.
JUDGE NEWMAN: You were asking him about Agent Owens, so he's a SLED agent, yes.
MR. GRIFFIN: And what information were you provided that -- leading up to this that, that turns out to be inaccurate?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: Right, and if --
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: Is it okay for me to speak freely?
JUDGE NEWMAN: Yes, sir.
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: Yes, sir. So, what I was asking -- I was saying I wanted to back up to get to where I was getting this information. So, I had been called to SLED, not headquarters, but their office in Walterboro to view the blue coat and to listen to an audio. After my interview with them, Captain Ryan Neill, I believe we were in his office, is the one that -- and I'm going to use my terminology here, but described the white t-shirt covered in blood. Even went so far as to describe that Alex took the bottom of it and wiped his face with it, and that that's how they knew he was involved. That's how they knew he was there. And I don't know where the question goes after that.
JUDGE NEWMAN: Does that answer your question, or are you trying to dig more out of him?
MR. GRIFFIN: That's it.
END OF PROFFER
JUDGE NEWMAN: All right. What's your objection?
MR. CONRAD: I would renew my objection to the relevance. Nothing has been put -- this jury hasn't heard any evidence about any blood being on this t-shirt, and the State has not offered any reports to suggest as such.
JUDGE NEWMAN: The objection is overruled. We're going to take 10 minutes.
MR. GRIFFIN: Thank you.
JUDGE NEWMAN: You may step down.
(Break in proceedings.)
JUDGE NEWMAN: Are you may bring the jury.
(The jury returned to the courtroom.)
COURT BAILIFF: The jury is present, sir.
JUDGE NEWMAN: All right, thank you. The objection is overruled.
MR. GRIFFIN: Thank you.
CONTINUED DIRECT EXAMINATION
BY MR. GRIFFIN:
MR. GRIFFIN: Mr. Murdaugh, when we broke, the question on the table was about a conversation that you had with a SLED agent regarding some matter of evidence. Can you provide your answer, please, sir?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: Yes. So, as I was about to say, what led me to this conversation was that SLED asked my brother, my sister, and I to come over to identify, or attempt to identify, a coat and -- or a recording, and we did that. And so I did my interview with them. And then after the interview we went into Captain Ryan Neill's -- I think he's Captain, but Agent Ryan Neill's office at the same SLED office. And in that office -- or in that -- in his office, we were all in there, they made reference to a -- the shirt that they said Alex was wearing. They told us it was covered in blood. They went so far as to tell me on the police body cam that he takes his shirt and wipes his face, and that's how they knew that Alex was at the scene and that he was the one.
MR. GRIFFIN: John Marvin, just finishing up, what was Alex's relationship with Maggie and Paul's parents -- Grandmar and Papa T as we've heard?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: Grandmar and Papa T, that's correct. They had a great relationship. Alex and Papa T played golf together regularly. It was just a really good father-in-law/son-in-law relationship and mother-in-law.
MR. GRIFFIN: And have you --
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: They would travel together, you know, vacation together with different places.
MR. GRIFFIN: And have you stayed in contact with them as best you could?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: Yes, sir, we communicate.
MR. GRIFFIN: And just briefly --
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: Now Papa T has taken -- has taken ill and is homebound now.
MR. GRIFFIN: I was going to ask you. He's --
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: Yeah. He's had a stroke and is basically homebound. And Ms. Kennedy stays at home and takes care of him, but they are wonderful people. I mean, just going a little bit further, wonderful people in and of themselves, but their relationship was absolutely great.
MR. GRIFFIN: John Marvin, I want to go back to that morning of June the 8th when you were down at the kennels cleaning up. Do you remember making a promise that morning?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: Well, Jim, as I've told y'all, you don't know what I saw, you don't know what I was doing. It was difficult, and it was nearly impossible. You know, I was in a bind, and I told Paul that I loved him. I don't know, I just loved him and I promised him that I would find out who did this to him. It's just -- just don't know what to do. It was tough.
MR. GRIFFIN: And you promised him you would find out who did this to him.
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: Yes, sir, I did.
MR. GRIFFIN: Have you found out?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: I have not.
MR. GRIFFIN: All right.
MR. GRIFFIN: Thank you, Your Honor. That's all the questions I have.
JUDGE NEWMAN: Cross-examination.
MR. CONRAD: Please the Court?
JUDGE NEWMAN: Yes.
CROSS-EXAMINATION
BY MR. CONRAD:
MR. CONRAD: Good afternoon, Mr. Murdaugh.
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: Good afternoon.
MR. CONRAD: I think you would agree with me that no matter which way your cut it, your family has suffered a great tragedy, hasn't it?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: Absolutely. Including the death of my dad and the sickness of my mom, it's just -- it's tough.
MR. CONRAD: And I'm sorry that you and your family has been through this.
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: Well, thank you.
MR. CONRAD: All right, and I think you testified a little while ago about the cooperation you and particularly your brother provided SLED. Is that correct?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: Did I provide cooperation with SLED?
MR. CONRAD: Yes.
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: Absolutely.
MR. CONRAD: To your knowledge --
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: I have and will continue to.
MR. CONRAD: And to your knowledge, your brother was providing cooperation to SLED as well, correct?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: I believe everyone in my family was, yes, sir.
MR. CONRAD: Okay. All right, and would you consider that cooperation full cooperation, not only for yourself but your brother as well from what you have observed?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: I mean, to me, full cooperation? Yeah. I mean, it's wide open. You tell us what you need and, I mean, I'll provide it, and I told them I would provide it.
MR. CONRAD: And from what you've observed, your brother was providing the same full cooperation as well, correct?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: Yes. So, I believe any time that they asked to search something, any time they asked to do something, they asked for information, it typically came to me, and yes, I would provide it.
MR. CONRAD: Okay. I'm asking about your brother right now. I understand you, though. But to your knowledge, did your brother provide full cooperation? Or did he tell you he was providing full cooperation?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: Well, he didn't tell me, but it appeared to be obvious by him providing -- giving them access to anything they asked for that he was --
MR. CONRAD: So, when did you first learn that your brother was down at the kennels just before the murders? Two days ago like the rest of us?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: No. No. You know, I -- so, obviously I went in into -- for an interview with SLED, the one I told you about where we talked about the shirt, talked about the blood, all of that. That was the reason for me being there was to hear that audio, and I saw the kennel. And, of course, at that point I heard his voice and I knew that was him.
MR. CONRAD: Okay. You knew that was him when you saw that video, correct?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: That's correct.
MR. CONRAD: Or listened to the video, I should say.
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: When I listened to it.
MR. CONRAD: And do you recall the date of that interview when you first listened to that video?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: I do not.
MR. CONRAD: All right. Would you disagree me if I say it was August 12th of 2022?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: I have no way to agree or disagree.
MR. CONRAD: Or at least during the month of August of 2022?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: Again, I'm sure they have my interview recorded for that date, but --
MR. CONRAD: All right. Before August of 2022 at that interview when you heard your brother's voice at the kennels, had he ever told you that he was down there just prior to the murders?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: No, sir.
MR. CONRAD: Did he ever tell you that afterwards, after you listened to that video?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: No, sir. And I'm trying to think if we've been able to have an opportunity to even speak.
MR. CONRAD: Okay. All right. So, you would agree that if he had not told SLED that, that was not full cooperation, correct? If he had not told SLED that he was at the kennels just before the murders, he had not actually been fully cooperative.
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: What's your question?
MR. CONRAD: Would you agree that that is not full cooperation?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: By him not telling SLED that he was at the kennel?
MR. CONRAD: Correct.
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: I would say that, yes, he lied.
MR. CONRAD: Okay. All right. So, I don't want to go through the whole kind of vehicle shell game that we talked about earlier. It's confusing, probably to me most of all. But let's just focus on -- so Paul's -- what was Paul's normal daily driving? What vehicle did he drive on a daily basis?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: On a normal basis, he drove a white F150 Platinum. And I'm going to confuse you a little bit more because I drive the identical truck.
MR. CONRAD: Okay. All right. So, you testified that, that Paul's F150 Platinum was at Jimmy Butler's over the weekend. Is that right?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: It was being worked on at Jimmy Butler's, that's correct.
MR. CONRAD: And then Monday there's a series of car swaps, and I don't want to go through them, but at the end of the day you end up in the F250 farm truck, correct?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: That's correct.
MR. CONRAD: And Paul ends up in your F150 Platinum.
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: Ultimately he does. He drives my mom's car back to Almeda.
MR. CONRAD: I know there were several swaps.
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: Yes, sir, that's correct.
MR. CONRAD: I'm just kind of talking at the end of the day. And he drove your F150 back to Al -- Moselle, excuse me, though, correct?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: To Moselle, yes, sir.
MR. CONRAD: And you testified that you came over later that night after Alex had called you about the murders, correct?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: That's correct.
MR. CONRAD: Where was your truck parked when you first got there? And we'll talk about how you got there in a minute, but where was Paul's truck parked?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: Well -- so first of all, that night --
MR. CONRAD: Your truck, I'm sorry.
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: That's right, I understand. So, when I got there we didn't go anywhere near the house. I went straight to where everything was happening.
MR. CONRAD: Okay.
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: As we went to the house later that night, I saw my truck. So, it was probably 4:00 in the morning, or whatever time we -- 3:00 or 4:00 in the morning. It was parked in front of the house normally where you would park cars.
MR. CONRAD: Okay. So, just kind of about straight out the front door?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: That's correct.
MR. CONRAD: And the keys that Paul had been using, do you recall, were they left in the truck, or have any recollection of where those keys might have ended up?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: Well, they were sitting in the ignition in the same place I always leave them.
MR. CONRAD: Okay.
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: Because I drove it to Almeda that night.
MR. CONRAD: Okay, and meanwhile you were in that F250 farm truck, correct?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: For a short period of time.
MR. CONRAD: Refresh my memory. Was that at -- was white as well or is that --
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: It's white as well, yes, sir.
MR. CONRAD: And it broke down on you on the way to Moselle, correct?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: That is correct, on Highway 63.
MR. CONRAD: All right. You left it on the side of the road, correct?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: I did.
MR. CONRAD: And I think -- did you call Chief Alexander at that point?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: Well, we were riding -- you know, we were driving separate cars but together.
MR. CONRAD: Okay.
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: And so at that point he had gotten in front of me, and I had to call him and tell him to turn around.
MR. CONRAD: Okay, and he came back and picked you up.
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: Came back and I jumped in his car, or truck, or whatever.
MR. CONRAD: I'm sorry. I'll try not to talk over you. My apologies. And you left the F-250 there on the side of the road.
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: I did.
MR. CONRAD: Okay, and rode with Chief Alexander to the property?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: That's correct.
MR. CONRAD: Okay, and were you aware that your brother Alex had loaned Chief Alexander money at several points over the past several years?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: I was not.
MR. CONRAD: And you testified that you learned of your brother's opioid addiction the weekend of Labor Day of 2021. Is that correct?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: That's when it started coming out, yes, sir.
MR. CONRAD: Okay. So, did you have any idea that he had an opioid or drug problem prior to that?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: Prior to that, I did not.
MR. CONRAD: So, from your observations of him on a daily basis, he seemed to be sober at most times, or not under the influence of any -- did you ever observe him --
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: Well, keep in mind now -- so, again, I'm not a lawyer in the firm. I live in Beaufort, so I, you know, I don't see him daily.
MR. CONRAD: Okay.
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: But our encounters usually would be during non-working hours. But even then, yes, I had -- he had no -- I had no reason to think he was on pills.
MR. CONRAD: Okay. All right. He was able to function pretty normally on a daily basis, to your observations?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: Yes, sir.
MR. CONRAD: Okay. So, let's talk about the morning of June 8th. You said that you were the first person over to the house at Moselle that morning. Is that -- did I understand that correctly?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: That's correct.
MR. CONRAD: And you're the first person inside the house at that point?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: That's correct.
MR. CONRAD: And so do you recall when Blanca Simpson got there?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: I don't. What I can tell you is I was the last to leave the house and the first to come back in.
MR. CONRAD: Okay. So, she would have gotten there at some point after you?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: Yes, sir, and I heard her testimony that instead of going to Moselle, she went to Almeda.
MR. CONRAD: But when she came to Moselle, it would have been after you, correct?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: I think other folks were there as well, but well after me.
MR. CONRAD: Okay, and you testified about being in that -- I guess some folks call it the gun room when SLED came in and started looking at some of those guns in the gun room, correct?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: That's correct. Well, I wasn't in the gun room. I was in the main part of the house.
MR. CONRAD: Okay. Did you ever go into the gun room while SLED was there?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: I did.
MR. CONRAD: Okay, because I think there's a video in evidence, and we're not going to go dig it up, but -- of SLED with camera, or body camera footage, and I think you do appear in it.
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: I think so. I think probably what -- the best recollection I have is I was in the main part of the house with Alex and family, and someone came and told me they were there and that they wanted to look around. And, of course, I went to make sure that they had full access.
MR. CONRAD: When you were in there, do you recall who was in there with you other than the SLED agents? Because there were several other people, correct?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: Well, I don't recall without seeing the video. I saw the video. I saw Mark Ball, I saw Lee Cope, I saw the -- Agent McCallister, but I don't think I would have remembered that.
MR. CONRAD: Okay, but there were several attorneys in there, though, correct?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: Friends and attorneys, friends. Yeah, that's right.
MR. CONRAD: Was Chris Wilson in there at that time?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: You know, I don't remember.
MR. CONRAD: Okay.
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: I don't have any recollection of him being there.
MR. CONRAD: Okay. All right, and then let's go to June 10th when SLED came over to -- I believe it was Greenfield where they came --
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: That's correct.
MR. CONRAD: -- to interview? It was you, Buster, Randy, Alex, I guess that's four, right? Is that all who were interviewed that day, to your recollection?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: Randy, me, and Buster, that's correct.
MR. CONRAD: Okay. I think you testified that they didn't want to come inside. Is that what you testified to?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: Well, I don't think they did not want to come inside because of any particular reason. I just think they just wanted to get about their business.
MR. CONRAD: So, you don't recall --
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: I offered for them -- I offered to come in, use the restroom, anything of that nature, drink of water, anything like that, but they did not.
MR. CONRAD: You don't recall Lieutenant Ghent coming in and introducing himself?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: Inside the lodge?
MR. CONRAD: Yeah.
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: I do not.
MR. CONRAD: All right, and you've either been interviewed or sat in several interviews by SLED over the last few years, haven't you, correct?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: I've been in a few, yes, sir.
MR. CONRAD: And I'm going to direct your attention to October 12th of 2010 -- and let me make sure I have that date correct. Or, excuse me, not 2010. That would have been 2021, and I believe SLED came to your house that day. Do you recall that?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: I do recall SLED coming to my house.
MR. CONRAD: Okay.
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: Now, I can't tell you that's the date, but they certainly came.
MR. CONRAD: This would have been the day that they interviewed both Buster and your wife that day. Does that help you out?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: It does. I remember them coming. It was Jeff -- Agent Croft and, I believe, Agent Ryan Kelly.
MR. CONRAD: Okay, and you sat in both of those interviews, correct, with both Buster and your wife?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: Well, I think the interview with -- one was an interview for Buster, and one was an interview with me and my wife.
MR. CONRAD: Okay. All right. So, you --
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: That's the way I thought it was. I didn't think it was three interviews.
MR. CONRAD: All right, and do you recall during that October 12th interview the subject of this blue jacket coming up with Buster? Specifically I'm talking about the one with Buster.
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: The conversation at my house?
MR. CONRAD: Yes.
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: I do not recall it coming up.
MR. CONRAD: You -- so, you don't recall SLED bringing up -- asking Buster about a blue jacket on October 12th of 2021.
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: I do not recall that.
MR. CONRAD: So, you don't recall his response.
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: I don't recall them bringing up a jacket.
MR. CONRAD: Okay. Do you recall Buster responding that he did not recognize the blue jacket that was presented to him?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: I don't recall the blue jacket being discussed.
MR. CONRAD: Okay, and I think you also looked at it. You don't recall --
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: They did not show me a blue jacket. There was no blue jacket discussion in that interview, to my knowledge.
MR. CONRAD: Okay.
MR. CONRAD: Beg the Court's indulgence.
(Break in proceedings.)
MR. CONRAD: Do you recall Buster's response in that interview to being asked if that could be Randolph's jacket, and him saying if it was over $15, no, it wasn't.
MR. GRIFFIN: Objection, Your Honor. Hearsay about Buster's -- he's asking him to recall what Buster said.
JUDGE NEWMAN: I sustain the objection.
MR. CONRAD: And then you agreed with what Buster said right afterwards. You don't recall that?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: No, Mr. Conrad. What I'm telling you is I don't recall any discussions of a blue jacket in that interview. I just don't recall that. I don't -- so you're asking me that. I'm just telling you I don't know of any discussions about a jacket in that interview.
MR. CONRAD: Okay. All right. You testified about driving up to rehab, I think, that Monday after Labor Day -- or, excuse me, detox, correct?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: It was detox, that's correct.
MR. CONRAD: And you said your brother kind of woke up startingly as if from a dream. Is that what you testified to?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: No, sir. I said that when I was driving, or Randy and I were driving him from detox to the rehab facility down -- that was down in Orlando, Florida --
MR. CONRAD: Okay.
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: -- is when that happened.
MR. CONRAD: Okay, and you said -- and again, I want to make this as clear as we can. You said that you thought that he was waking up in response to a dream about the night of June 7th. Is that -- did I understand that correctly?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: That is the way I -- that's what it appeared to be to me, and that's -- of course, I can't tell you what he was dreaming, but that's certainly what it appeared to me.
MR. CONRAD: So, you're not saying that because he said that, right?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: That's right. He didn't wake up and say that. It was just such a startling -- just the way he woke up out of his sleep, it was just so startling. It was fear, it just -- and it took him several seconds to realize that whatever he just saw was not real or was not -- he was not living it.
MR. CONRAD: Okay. You testified about the day of June 7th and the -- taking your dad to the hospital and him getting admitted, correct?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: I did.
MR. CONRAD: And that you were -- you and your brother Randy were sending out multiple group texts about your dad's status. Is that correct?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: Well, I sent a text, and I believe Randy sent one as well.
MR. CONRAD: Okay, and --
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: Along with phone calls. I know Randy and I discussed it on the phone as well.
MR. CONRAD: And if I understood your testimony correctly, you said that June 7th was actually kind of a hopeful day. Is that based off of what the doctors were saying?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: Well, yes. Based on all of the bad news that he's been receiving, it was one little piece of hope that, you know -- certainly if the doctor would have said at that point, you know, you're going home with hospice tomorrow, it would have -- that would be the worse case. But him saying that there was hope that it was pneumonia and not the cancer, that there was some breathing treatments that may help, it gave us some hope.
MR. CONRAD: And you sent out at least one group text with this information, correct, to your family members, right?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: I know I sent one; I could have sent another, but I know there was one.
MR. CONRAD: Okay, and do you recall if your brother was included in that, Alex specifically was included?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: You know, I saw the record showing it, and so yes. I believe it was my family and -- I think it was just our family actually.
MR. CONRAD: All right, and so there was hope, at least on the afternoon of June 7th, that your dad had pneumonia which could potentially be treated, and there was a little bit of hope about that, correct?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: Yes, sir.
MR. CONRAD: Okay. So, if your brother had told Jeannie Seckinger that day that your dad was taking a major turn for the worse, that would not be truthful, correct?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: That would be correct. And the testimony I heard is he didn't say that.
MR. CONRAD: He didn't say what?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: He didn't say it was terminal or dire or whatever, whatever you're saying.
MR. CONRAD: Based off of Alex's testimony?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: Yes, sir.
MR. CONRAD: Okay. So, if Jeannie Seckinger --
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: Well, I can tell you this. If somebody said that day that it was terminal, one of two people was wrong or both.
MR. CONRAD: So, if Jeannie Seckinger was told that --
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: If Jeannie Seckinger said that, she was wrong.
MR. CONRAD: Well, were you present for any conversations between your brother and Jeannie Seckinger on June 7th?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: I wasn't.
MR. CONRAD: One moment, Your Honor.
(Break in proceedings.)
MR. CONRAD: One last thing, Mr. Murdaugh. Would you say that the Murdaugh name and legacy is something that's important to you and your brothers?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: Yes. I think any family's name and legacy is important to them. Do I think my family's name is more important than yours or any of y'all's? No, I don't.
MR. CONRAD: But it's important to your brother as well, correct?
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: I think he would feel the exact same way as what I just said, that all families are important.
MR. CONRAD: Okay.
MR. CONRAD: Nothing further.
JUDGE NEWMAN: Any redirect?
MR. GRIFFIN: No, Your Honor.
JUDGE NEWMAN: Thank you. You may step down.
JOHN MARVIN MURDAUGH: Thank you, Judge.
(The witness exited the stand.)
JUDGE NEWMAN: Mr. Harpootlian?
MR. HARPOOTLIAN: Defense rests, Your Honor.
JUDGE NEWMAN: All right, ladies and gentlemen, that is the defense's case, and we will excuse you for this day and have you come back at 9:30 tomorrow morning. Have a good evening.
(The jury left the courtroom.)
JUDGE NEWMAN: Everyone may be seated. The defense has rested. Any matters of law at this time?
MR. GRIFFIN: Your Honor, we would -- the defense would just renew our motion for a directed verdict on the grounds previously argued at the close of the State's case.
JUDGE NEWMAN: All right, and Mr. Waters?
MR. WATERS: Your Honor, again, we would rely on our arguments previously made that the motion should be denied. I would be happy to answer any specifics issues that Your Honor may have, but I would rely on previous arguments.
JUDGE NEWMAN: The motion is denied based on all of the reasons stated at the close of the State's case. Now, with regard to the reply, what do you have, Mr. Waters?
MR. WATERS: Yes, sir. We have maybe four witnesses, maybe five at this point in time. I'm hopeful that we can accomplish that in a day. Obviously as is the nature of reply, we will, you know, assess that tonight, but right now I have four definite witnesses, and perhaps a fifth that, as it stands right now, we would have. I don't think many of them, except for one, would be very lengthy. And by lengthy I don't mean exceptionally so.
JUDGE NEWMAN: Any comment, Mr. Harpootlian or Mr. Griffin?
MR. HARPOOTLIAN: Your Honor, I am in no way critical of Mr. Waters, but his estimate of time is a little mushy, I think to put it -- and I'm not criticizing him. I'm just saying this was going to be a three week trial and now it's a six week trial. I'm just a little skeptical that we could get it all done tomorrow. I'm just saying I'll be happy, I'll be ecstatic if it happens, but for planning purposes, perhaps midday Wednesday would be better. Oh, and somewhere in this process, Your Honor has indicated you would allow the jury visit the site.
JUDGE NEWMAN: At the close of the reply.
MR. HARPOOTLIAN: Okay. So, I guess Mr. Waters --
JUDGE NEWMAN: Mr. Waters, are these witnesses who you anticipate contradict issues presented by the defense, or what's the -- the credibility of matters raised by the defense?
MR. WATERS: It will be focused on issues that were raised during the defense case, yes, sir.
JUDGE NEWMAN: All right. All right. 9:30 tomorrow morning.
(Whereupon, the case was at ease.)