Mark Ball — Direct/Cross/Redirect/Recross
1,044 linesWEDNESDAY, FEBRUARY 22, 2023
(Court Resumed at 9:39 a.m.)
JUDGE NEWMAN: Are we ready for the jury?
MR. HARPOOTLIAN: No, Your Honor. Mr. Griffin has a matter he wishes to address with the Court.
JUDGE NEWMAN: Yes, sir.
MR. GRIFFIN: Good morning, Your Honor. We are discussing with Mr. Murdaugh his right to testify or not testify, and one of the issues that has come up is the scope of cross-examination that the State would be permitted to go into should he testify, and the rule, basic rule is when a defendant takes the stand, he waives his Fifth Amendment privilege as to matters to which he testifies on direct and relevant matters subject to cross- examination. Your Honor has let in, over our objection, evidence under 404B of financial misconduct. And what we're asking is for an order excluding the State from being able to question Mr. Murdaugh on cross-examination matters related to the financial crimes that have been put before the Court under Rule 404B if we don't testify about those on direct examination. We need a ruling from the Court at some point in time today before tomorrow. We're not putting him up today, but we're asking that we be able to advise him of what the State will be permitted to go into on cross- examination should he choose to testify in order for us to adequately advise him, and for him to adequately waive his right and the Fifth Amendment privilege and testify or not. And that's what we're asking.
JUDGE NEWMAN: Would you like for me to review with him at this time his right to testify or not testify?
MR. GRIFFIN: Not at this point in time, Your Honor. We have to -- trying to get an understanding from the Court as to the parameters of the waiver of privilege. Is it -- is he waiving -- if he testifies about the murders, is he then subject to cross-examination about the financial crimes? That's what we're asking.
JUDGE NEWMAN: All right. Mr. Waters.
MR. WATERS: Thank you, Your Honor. May it please the Court? First of all, obviously the general rule is, is that cross is generally wide open, and that goes for a defendant who testifies. Your Honor, Rule 611B on the scope of cross-examination expressly says that a witness may be cross-examined on any matter relevant to any issue in the case. And, of course, Your Honor has ruled in 404 and 403 the finance matter is independently relevant, but the rule goes on to further say including credibility. So, even if that had not happened, these matters, which go right to the heart of credibility -- and, frankly, the extensive dishonesty of this defendant would be relevant if he took the stand anyway, regardless of the 404. So, independently under that rule of the credibility aspect, it would be admissible under rule 611B. But, again, Your Honor has ruled these matters as relevant in the case, and so it's clearly within the scope of cross. Your Honor, citing State v.
Gilbert and Gleaton, 273 SC 690, they said right there, as I think the defense recognized, when the accused takes the stand on his own behalf, he waives his privilege against compulsory self- incrimination and must answer also proper questions. Your Honor, Taylor v. State, which I believe may have been overruled on other grounds, but 258 SC 369, when an appellant elected to testify, he waived his right against self-incrimination and became subject to cross-examination like any other witness. And then finally citing U.S. Supreme Court Brown v. U.S., 356, U.S. 148, it says -- in talking about a defendant in a criminal case, it says if he takes the stand and testifies as an own -- in his own defense, his credibility may be impeached, and his testimony is sealed like any other witness, and the breadth of his waiver is determined by scope of relevant cross- examination. He has no right to set forth to the jury all facts which tend in his favor without laying himself open to a cross-examination on those facts. Those are the general and well established rules, Your Honor, and they're particularly relevant in this case, and so we believe that those financial matters would be well within the scope of this particular matter and authorized by the rules and case law.
JUDGE NEWMAN: Mr. Griffin?
MR. GRIFFIN: Yeah, just briefly, Your Honor. With regard to credibility, the rules are pretty strict as to what evidence of criminal conduct can be used to impeach a witness's credibility, and they are limited to convictions, and that is Rule 609. Your Honor has let the financial evidence in under theory of motive, and you've done a 403 weighing test. And, Your Honor, I think when you get to cross-examination of the defendant, I think Your Honor has a discretion under Rule 403 to prohibit the State from further inquiry in this case on the financial evidence, which they contend is a motivating factor for the crimes. And that is -- and so that Brown v U.S. and all the -- I don't disagree that that's the black letter law, but the question is, you know, what's the scope of cross-examination? And here he's charged with murder. He's not charged with financial crimes. He's charged with murder. We're asking that the Court limit, you know, the waiver of his Fifth Amendment privilege to the murder charges.
JUDGE NEWMAN: Yes, sir?
MR. WATERS: You know, again, moving back to 607. Of course, the credibility of the witness may be attacked by any party. 608B allows examination -- a cross-examination of a witness concerning their aspect of truthfulness and untruthfulness, which this clearly goes to, as well as 608C which talks about bias, prejudice, and any motive to misrepresent. And, again, we're not just talking about purely dishonesty and credibility, which I think is alone more than enough. We're also talking about examination on issues that are specifically relevant to this particular case based on the 404 rule.
JUDGE NEWMAN: Rule 607, Rule 608, particularly the portion of 608C, evidence of bias, prejudice, or any motive to misrepresent, may be shown to impeach the witness either by examination of the witness or by evidence otherwise deduced. Rule 611 and 609 also addresses the issue. I'm not going to issue an order in advance limiting the scope of this cross-examination. Any objectionable matter must be addressed on -- as the evidence is presented and not based on any advance ruling by the Court.
MR. GRIFFIN: Your Honor, the -- I fear that the request for ruling is not an evidentiary ruling. It's the scope of his privilege, and so would he be permitted to assert the Fifth, for example, if they are permitted to ask questions such as they intend to on cross, and that --
JUDGE NEWMAN: I can't give you any advisory opinions about the evidence and scope of cross-examination and scope of his privilege. That's -- I'm willing to review with him the scope of his privilege against self-incrimination if that's what you're referring to.
MR. GRIFFIN: Well, we will certainly -- we will certainly need to have that colloquy at some point at the end of the day perhaps, but --
JUDGE NEWMAN: But for the Court to issue some blanket order limiting the scope of cross-examination, that is unheard of to me.
MR. GRIFFIN: Again, Your Honor, I'm not -- the question is the scope of the waiver of his privilege when he gets on that witness stand. That's what we're asking for, not on an evidentiary ruling.
JUDGE NEWMAN: Mr. Waters has the cases there I assume he would like for me to look at and --
MR. WATERS: Yes, sir, I'd be happy --
JUDGE NEWMAN: -- if you do, I'll be happy to look at what you have as well.
MR. GRIFFIN: Thank you, Your Honor.
JUDGE NEWMAN: Anything else?
MR. WATERS: Nothing from the State, Your Honor.
MR. HARPOOTLIAN: Nothing from the defense, Your Honor.
JUDGE NEWMAN: Let's bring the jury.
(The jury returned to the courtroom.)
COURT BAILIFF: The jury is present, sir.
JUDGE NEWMAN: Thank you. Good morning.
(The jurors responded good morning.)
JUDGE NEWMAN: Madame Forelady.
UNIDENTIFIED JUROR: Yes, sir.
JUDGE NEWMAN: How is the jury doing?
UNIDENTIFIED JUROR: They're doing great.
JUDGE NEWMAN: Doing great, that's great news. Well, we're now in day number twenty-two, the defense's case. You may call your next witness.
MR. GRIFFIN: Thank you, Your Honor. Defense calls Mark Ball.
The witness, MARK BALL, was first duly sworn and testified as follows:
COURT CLERK: Have a seat on the stand. Please adjust that microphone so you can speak into it. If you'll state your full name and spell your last name.
MARK BALL: Mark Ball, B-a-l-l.
DIRECT EXAMINATION
BY MR. GRIFFIN:
MR. GRIFFIN: Mr. Ball, will you tell the jury a little bit about yourself, where you're from, what do you do?
MARK BALL: I'm a lawyer in Hampton. I practice with the Parker Law Group now. I've lived in Hampton for twenty plus years. I'm now live in Rum Gully here in Colleton County, have for about eight years or nine years. I practice --
MR. GRIFFIN: How long have you been a lawyer?
MARK BALL: Thirty-three years.
MR. GRIFFIN: And where were you born and in raised?
MARK BALL: In Ballentine, South Carolina, up above Columbia about 20 miles.
MR. GRIFFIN: And when did you move down to this part of the state?
MARK BALL: I started with the law firm thirty-four years ago. I moved down -- I was a law clerk at first and have never left since 1988.
MR. GRIFFIN: Do you know the defendant, Alex Murdaugh?
MARK BALL: I do.
MR. GRIFFIN: How long have you known him?
MARK BALL: Thirty-four years.
MR. GRIFFIN: And did you practice law together?
MARK BALL: We did, about twenty something.
MR. GRIFFIN: Did you become personal friends of his?
MARK BALL: Yes. I mean --
MR. GRIFFIN: And were your family friends with his family?
MARK BALL: Yes. Our children grew up together, as did everybody in the firm.
MR. GRIFFIN: And your wife, Lisa, did she become good friends with Maggie?
MARK BALL: Yes, sir.
MR. GRIFFIN: Okay. On the -- do you remember the evening of June 7th --
MARK BALL: I do, very well.
MR. GRIFFIN: -- 2021?
MARK BALL: Yes, sir.
MR. GRIFFIN: How did you learn about the tragic murders of Maggie and Paul?
MARK BALL: It was about 10:30, and one of my partners, Ronnie Crosby, tried to call my phone, and before I could get to it, he called my wife's with phone, and the only -- she handed it and he said give me -- hand Mark the phone and I -- he said that Maggie and Paul had been shot and get over there, and so I scrambled and got over there. I live about 8 or 10 miles from there. I live over in the Rum Gully, and that's Moselle.
MR. GRIFFIN: And why did you go over there?
MARK BALL: To find out what was going on. To, you know, see what -- I mean, we're out in the middle of, you know, nowhere, and when somebody calls you and says your law partner's wife and child have been shot, you go. I mean --
MR. GRIFFIN: And who did you go with?
MARK BALL: I went with my wife, Lisa.
MR. GRIFFIN: And when you got there, who was on the scene? Do you recall?
MARK BALL: Yeah. I came in by the cabin, what's referred to as the cabin side of it, and there was a -- an ambulance was pulled up next to the -- what I would call the hangar building. It was pulled up there, and then Barry McRoy's, vehicle. He drives a SUV of some type, and then there was a police car pulled off to the right-hand side probably 50 yards before you get to them, and I pulled in right behind them on the left-hand -- or the right-hand side of the driveway coming in and then walked over.
MR. GRIFFIN: Will you remind the jury who Barry McRoy is?
MARK BALL: Barry McRoy is the chief of the Fire and Rescue here in Colleton County.
MR. GRIFFIN: And when you arrived, I think you said Bobby McRoy was present?
MARK BALL: He was there and he was standing there speaking with a deputy, and there were two EMT paramedics standing over near their ambulance, or --
MR. GRIFFIN: And when you pulled into the -- I guess the lower driveway by the cabin, had any roadblocks or barriers been put up to stop cars from coming in there?
MARK BALL: None. I got there about 10:50, 10:52, something like that.
MR. GRIFFIN: Did you have a conversation with any law enforcement officers about the need to block the entrance?
MARK BALL: I did eventually. I was talking to Barry about -- I had found out just before I got there -- somebody had called me, and they work with sort of the maintenance side of fire and rescue, and they had heard it come across the radio that there were two dead. So, I suspected that Paul and Maggie had passed away. They -- so when I got there, I was talking to Barry and asking him some questions. I could see Randy kind of through the alleyway between the dog kennel and the sort of winged shed that comes off of the hangar, and then Buddy Hill, the sheriff, came over, and then I spoke with him.
MR. GRIFFIN: And did you talk about the need to block the entrance into the Moselle property off Moselle Road?
MARK BALL: We did, just briefly. He said I need to get this blocked off, and I don't -- I think he took a phone call or something, and I walked back to tell my wife what was going on, and I saw another deputy coming in. So, I walked out to the road -- head of the road there and I said I think the sheriff wants this blocked off, and then I walked back to where Merritt Boyd was and then --
MR. GRIFFIN: Did that entrance get blocked off?
MARK BALL: No.
MR. GRIFFIN: What happened?
MARK BALL: People just kept piling in. I mean, just -- I mean, it was -- just more and more people kept showing up.
MR. GRIFFIN: Roughly how many cars do you think piled in?
MARK BALL: I don't know because shortly thereafter I walked around to the other side, but there were a good many. When I walked back over there an hour and a half later, there were a good many cars over there.
MR. GRIFFIN: And when you say you walked around to the other side, I don't think we need a diagram, but just tell the jury what you're talking about.
MARK BALL: Well, there's a dog pen. From where I was standing, the dog pen would be to the left. The aircraft hangar with the two wing sheds coming off it would be directly in front of me. There's a skinning shed that would be to the far right, and then directly across from the hangar shed, probably 50 or 60, 75 yards, would be another storage shed, equipment shed, and so I walked down almost to where the skin shed was, and then back around in front of the far shed, the equipment shed.
MR. GRIFFIN: So, you did not walk directly between the shed and the kennels?
MARK BALL: No, sir.
MR. GRIFFIN: You walked around the shed.
MARK BALL: Correct.
MR. GRIFFIN: Before you walked around the shed, did you stand and observe what was happening within the taped off area?
MARK BALL: I did. I mean, people were walking between the dog pen and the -- law enforcement and responders had walked between the two areas, the wing shed and the dog kennels, and I could see where Paul was but he was covered up. Barry had covered him up.
MR. GRIFFIN: And what was the weather?
MARK BALL: It was misty. It hadn't -- it wasn't really raining, but it was one of those kind of foggy days that -- or nights that it's more than just a fog. You get wet, and eventually it got to where it would drizzle off and on, and later on it didn't rain hard, but it just -- it was intermittently sprinkle and that kind of floating, heavy fog.
MR. GRIFFIN: Did you make any observations about water coming off the roof of the kennels?
MARK BALL: I did later on when I got around to that side.
MR. GRIFFIN: Okay. What observations did you make?
MARK BALL: Eventually the water was running off. The dog kennel was built with a small cantilever kennel on the front of it, and then a longer part off the back, and water was dripping off of the front of the shed where Paul was.
MR. GRIFFIN: Was water landing on Paul?
MARK BALL: It was.
MR. GRIFFIN: And could you see where the water would then accumulate after it landed on Paul?
MARK BALL: It would drain off. There's a cement apron right there in the front of the feed room, and there was water there. There was water in the gravel to some degree.
MR. GRIFFIN: Did --
MARK BALL: The grass was wet. I mean, you could -- it wasn't raining so hard that you couldn't just stand there without an umbrella, but it was drizzling enough that you were getting wet.
MR. GRIFFIN: And the fact that you --
MARK BALL: And the grass was wet.
MR. GRIFFIN: -- observed water dripping off the roof onto Paul's body, did that concern you?
MARK BALL: It did. It did.
MR. GRIFFIN: Why?
MARK BALL: Well, one, I didn't think that -- you know, at the crime scene you don't want just water dripping all over the place, but more importantly I thought it was pretty disrespectful. I mean, Paul was a good young man and I -- it, quite frankly, just pissed me off.
MR. GRIFFIN: I understand. Did you have a conversation with anyone about trying to prevent that?
MARK BALL: I don't think I did about that aspect of it, but it was -- I just thought that they should have done -- put a tarp or something, I mean, just out of respect.
MR. GRIFFIN: Right.
MARK BALL: They eventually did with Maggie put what I would call a tailgating tent, very similar to the media tents that are out front, those little light-weight, and they put that over Maggie.
MR. GRIFFIN: Right.
MARK BALL: To my knowledge they never did over Paul, at least while I was there.
MR. GRIFFIN: When you walked around the shed to get on the other side, who was on the other side?
MARK BALL: Well, I could see through the alleyway between the dog kennels and that wing shed coming off of -- if you were standing in front of the aircraft hangar it would be the right-hand side where Maggie was, I could see Randy over there and Alex. Alex much more infrequently, but Randy was on the phone walking and I could see him, and I think he and I got there about the same time. He had come through the main gate.
MR. GRIFFIN: When you got up -- what -- did you get up to greet Alex?
MARK BALL: I did. When I walked around, Alex met me about halfway where that equipment shed is. Alex came -- as soon as he saw me coming up through there, he met me about halfway in front of that shed and just went to pieces. He, Alex, is 6-4, 6-5, whatever he is, and I am 5-9. He pretty well smothers you when he hugs you, and he was --
MR. GRIFFIN: What was his demeanor?
MARK BALL: He was devastated. I mean, he was crying, he was -- I mean, he was just, just beside himself, and I told him we would get through it.
MR. GRIFFIN: Did --
MARK BALL: And he -- go ahead.
MR. GRIFFIN: Yeah. Eventually did SLED arrive on the scene?
MARK BALL: It did, but while Alex was --
MR. GRIFFIN: Oh, I'm sorry, go ahead.
MARK BALL: -- kind of -- you know, I'm trying to console him and patting him on the back, you know, and he said look at what they did. Look at what they did to them, just right off the bat.
MR. GRIFFIN: So, during that initial encounter with Alex, he referred to they. Look what they did. Is that correct?
MARK BALL: Yeah, they, which I didn't really think about at the time until I was taking my wife home. I just thought it was an odd comment.
MR. GRIFFIN: The -- SLED arrived some time later?
MARK BALL: They did.
MR. GRIFFIN: Do you remember about how long after your initial arrival SLED got on the scene?
MARK BALL: I think they got -- they came kind of in, you know, because I'm sure they were coming from various locations, but they were there probably within an hour, hour and a half of me being there.
MR. GRIFFIN: And by the time SLED arrived, were there other members from your law firm and family members on the -- out on the property where you were standing?
MARK BALL: There were, but that -- but by the time SLED got there, pretty much all of the lawyers in the firm, with the exception of maybe two or three. One of them had small children, and one got forgotten, and pretty much everybody that was a lawyer was there, and family members. All of Alex's family was there.
MR. GRIFFIN: Were you directed to leave the area when SLED started processing the crime scene?
MARK BALL: Eventually we were. The coroner came over. Rich Harvey came over and said SLED was there. They were ready to start processing the scene. We -- he said y'all need to, you know, go over to the house, or -- and I said are you sure about that? And he said yeah. I said are you sure it's okay for us to go to the house? And he walked back over and asked somebody, came back and said yeah, and I said --
MR. GRIFFIN: Well, did you have any concerns going to the house?
MARK BALL: I did.
MR. GRIFFIN: What was your concerns?
MARK BALL: Well, it was two-fold. One, you know, this is a pretty big farm and I don't know who's over there. Two people have been gunned down, and, you know, is it safe? You know, so safety is one concern. The other is, is that part of what went on here? And so it's -- you know, is it -- where does the crime scene start and stop?
MR. GRIFFIN: And when you got to the house, did it appear that the house had been searched and cleared in any form or fashion?
MARK BALL: I didn't see any signs of that, but I'm not a criminologist, I'm not a prosecutor, I'm not a defense lawyer, but it looked like just a regular house.
MR. GRIFFIN: Okay, but before you go to the house, did you have any conversations with law enforcement about, you know, your knowledge of Paul receiving threats?
MARK BALL: Yeah. I had asked -- or I had -- when I was standing where I had driven up, Buddy Hill had come over there, and he asked me if I knew -- because I know Sheriff Hill, and he asked if I had any idea of who might want to do this, and I said not really. And he said do you know of any threats? And I said I know Paul had gotten -- since the boat wreck, that he had gotten several, you know, threats, and just people cranking off from all over the place, not necessarily locally, but from everywhere, and I would hear it from, you know, Alex from time to time and different -- just different stuff, and so I told him that.
MR. GRIFFIN: When you had that conversation with Sheriff Hill, had you spoken to Alex?
MARK BALL: I had not at that point; I hadn't gotten over to him.
MR. GRIFFIN: When you had that conversation with Sheriff Hill, had you listened to the 911 call?
MARK BALL: No, sir.
MR. GRIFFIN: That thought of threats, was that an independent thought of yours?
MARK BALL: Well, it was a response to a question --
MR. GRIFFIN: Right.
MARK BALL: -- from Sheriff Hill.
MR. GRIFFIN: And your thought process was about the boating accident?
MARK BALL: Well, that was the only threat that I knew of that Paul had ever encountered.
MR. GRIFFIN: When -- do you remember who went to the house when you went into the Moselle residence?
MARK BALL: Yeah.
MR. GRIFFIN: Who was with you?
MARK BALL: Well, I probably can't name them. I'll leave somebody off. It was myself, Ronnie Crosby, Lee Cope, Austin Crosby, Neill Alger, Randy Murdaugh, Alex.
MR. GRIFFIN: Had Buster gotten there yet?
MARK BALL: Buster had gotten there, I believe, but I'm not sure. He and Brooklynn, I remember when they came up, but I can't tell you whether it was before we left over there. It seems to me that they drove up at the house, but I can't tell you for certain, and then there was Cory Fleming and Chris Wilson showed up, Lynn, John Marvin, just a host of people. Greg Alexander, chief of police in Yemassee who was a friend of theirs, showed up.
MR. GRIFFIN: A lot of people in the house.
MARK BALL: A lot of people.
MR. GRIFFIN: What did you observe of the condition of the house?
MARK BALL: Well, when we came in the door, we obviously went to the den and were standing around. The den and the kitchen in that house are connected, and there were pots on the stove. So, Lee Cope and myself and, I think, Austin got the pots. I think I sat something in the sink, and they stuck some in the refrigerator.
MR. GRIFFIN: When you entered the house, it looked like there was food out that had been prepared for dinner?
MARK BALL: There was food on the stove, yeah. I don't recall seeing any plates, but somebody else could have picked them up.
MR. GRIFFIN: But were folks cleaning up?
MARK BALL: Sure.
MR. GRIFFIN: And what time of day was this?
MARK BALL: It was probably 1:30 or 2:00 in the morning.
MR. GRIFFIN: Do you remember what time you left that -- the Moselle residence on that night/early morning?
MARK BALL: I probably left at 3:30 or 4:00. I left when Alex was leaving.
MR. GRIFFIN: When did you go back to the property?
MARK BALL: I had a deposition the next morning and I ended up having to take it, and I got out there about 11:00, I guess.
MR. GRIFFIN: And was Alex there when you got there?
MARK BALL: I went over to the dog pen over that way. I had gotten a call that morning about 8:00 from Randy, 8:00 or 8:15, and John had gone over there trying to clean up and couldn't, just couldn't do it, I mean, emotionally. And Randy had asked me if I could see about finding somebody to come clean it up, or did I know anybody, and I called the coroner's office to find out if they had people that did that type of work, or knew of people that did that type of work. And ultimately the coroner called me back and gave me the names of two companies, and I gave those to Lee and he started trying to run them down.
MR. GRIFFIN: Okay, I have inadvertently skipped over something on my outline. When you were at the house, before you left -- so, you left about 3:30 in the morning or so. Were you there when SLED agents came up and took custody of Alex's clothes that he was wearing?
MARK BALL: I was. They knocked -- they knocked on the door. Somebody answered the door. For some reason I got up and walked over there, and they said they needed his clothes and to, I think, swab his hands. I walked back over. Alex had been sitting next to me on the couch. There's two couches in the den that sort of face each other and then two chairs that are heading towards the kitchen. He was sitting on the far couch, and I walked back over and said Alex, they need your clothes. Can you step back here with these folks? It was a male and a female.
MR. GRIFFIN: Okay. Well, before we go any further, let me ask you. Were your clothes wet or dry when you were sitting on the couch?
MARK BALL: They were pretty -- well, they were pretty wet. They weren't soaked but they were uncomfortably damp.
MR. GRIFFIN: And do you recall whether Alex's clothes were damp as well?
MARK BALL: I would assume they are. I didn't reach over and --
MR. GRIFFIN: And did you see how the clothes were, I guess, collected? Were they put on a hanger, wrapped up carefully, or what happened?
MARK BALL: The male went in and took what -- Alex's bedroom, at least I'm assuming that was Alex's bedroom, and he came back out, and then I saw Alex just kind of -- the female agent, or officer, was holding the bag and Alex dropped them in.
MR. GRIFFIN: It was one bag or multiple bags?
MARK BALL: I thought it was one, but I couldn't tell you whether it was one or two or three.
MR. GRIFFIN: Went down -- and I'm jumping back to where we were on the morning of June 8th after you got out of your deposition. Did you go to the property?
MARK BALL: I did.
MR. GRIFFIN: And you went down to the kennels?
MARK BALL: I did. I drove over there.
MR. GRIFFIN: Had the crime scene been released?
MARK BALL: It had been released, and -- because I asked Randy that morning and he said yeah, they've released it when John was down there.
MR. GRIFFIN: And what did you do?
MARK BALL: Well, I just wandered around. There was a SLED agent there. I think at some point Duffy Stone and Sean, his deputy, Thornton, was there, and I think one of their investigators, but they were over inside the hangar, and there was a SLED agent, at least I'm presuming he was a SLED agent, and I don't know who he was. It wasn't any of the ones that were working the case. Then I came to find out they were working the case later on. That I can remember. I looked around at different things.
MR. GRIFFIN: Did you look in the feed room?
MARK BALL: I did.
MR. GRIFFIN: What did you see in the feed room?
MARK BALL: Well, by that time, I think Ronnie had either come up or was over there.
MR. GRIFFIN: Ronnie who?
MARK BALL: Crosby.
MR. GRIFFIN: Your law partner?
MARK BALL: And I think Lee Cope was there as well but I'm not sure about that. I'm pretty sure, and I was looking in the feed room and you could see, you know, obviously there still -- it was still a pretty raw scene, and there were --
MR. GRIFFIN: Were there still remains of Paul in the feed room that had not been collected?
MARK BALL: At first I didn't see it. I saw shot, you know, on the floor, steel shot on the floor --
MR. GRIFFIN: Steel shot, you mean pellets from a --
MARK BALL: Yeah. Like birdshot except it was number two steel.
MR. GRIFFIN: Okay. Where -- and you saw that in the feed room.
MARK BALL: It was all over everything. It was on the floor. It was on the shelves. It was various places.
MR. GRIFFIN: Okay.
MARK BALL: And then I got to looking around and there was a -- you could see where a piece of buckshot had gone through, and you could see where it had knocked out, you know, or shot through twice where the window was, or is. Two had gone through that. There was some plastic crates or something, and you could see where one of the shot had gone through and had embedded in the window frame right there, the molding, and then there was a piece of buckshot laying on the ledge of the window seal.
MR. GRIFFIN: Did -- what did you do when you observed the shots?
MARK BALL: I walked back out and asked what I thought was the agent and --
MR. GRIFFIN: What was the --
MARK BALL: -- he said we've got all we need, and so I walked back over there and looked around, and then, you know, looking around down around the floor and all that, it just -- there was a piece of Paul's skull about the size a baseball laying there.
MR. GRIFFIN: Did that upset you?
MARK BALL: It did very much. I mean, it just really infuriated me, and I don't know who I was supposed to be mad at, but it just infuriated me that this young man had been murdered and there were still his remains there, and there was a large blood spot and tissue out right off of the apron of that area right outside the feed room that was there, and it was kind of like walking across a grave. It's just -- it's one of those things you just don't do.
MR. GRIFFIN: All right. After you spent time down at the kennel area, what did you do next?
MARK BALL: I ended up going back to the house, and I remember Terry Branstetter, Maggie's daddy, was there, and several other people, and I spoke to them and went in the house and eventually went towards where the gun room was that afternoon.
MR. GRIFFIN: Did SLED agents come up to search the house while you were present?
MARK BALL: They did. They --
MR. GRIFFIN: I think the jury has seen a video of it. We don't need to play it, but were you present in the gun room?
MARK BALL: I was. I think they -- probably 2:30 or 3:00, something like this, they showed up, and I had had a discussion with that same agent, and I'm assuming it's a SLED agent, it could have been a sheriff's deputy, but I made the assumption it was a SLED agent over at the kennels and the hangar, about -- I had asked if they had figured out what kind of gun it was, and at that time I, you know, didn't -- I assumed it was a 223 based on the night before. Barry McRoy had said he thought it was some type of assault rifle and I just immediately kind of went there. That agent had said that it was a three something, and I said a 300 Blackout, and he said yeah. And I said, well, there's one over there in the gun rack, and he said no, there's not, and apparently SLED had been there some time that morning or whatever. He said they already checked. There's not one over there, and I said yes, there is, and -- so, later on when they got there, there was one there.
MR. GRIFFIN: So -- and you located it for SLED?
MARK BALL: Yeah.
MR. GRIFFIN: The night/early morning hours, 2:00 or 3:00, before you left, had you seen the gun room?
MARK BALL: I had.
MR. GRIFFIN: Were there guns on the pool table and whatnot?
MARK BALL: I walked in there. The door was shut, I think. I think the door was shut between it and the -- it's sort of a transition hall. You go through there, and then there's a bathroom, and then where the freezers were, and then it exits out on the porch, and then straight ahead would be -- I guess in the original house plans would have been a garage, but it was kind of a den/game room that Alex had turned into a recreation/gun room and a large room. And I walked in there, and there were three shotguns on the table, pool table.
MR. GRIFFIN: Right.
MARK BALL: And some other stuff, some shells and stuff, and --
MR. GRIFFIN: And when you went back the next day, the 8th, daylight hours, early afternoon, were -- did it look like things had been put up?
MARK BALL: They had been put up. There were no guns on the table, there were no shells, no nothing there, and so I asked what happened to that and was told that the maid had put them up, so I went and asked her.
MR. GRIFFIN: Was it Blanca?
MARK BALL: Yeah. I went to Blanca and she said yeah, I was told to clean up the room, so I put them up and put them in the rack.
MR. GRIFFIN: And did you point out to the SLED agents the guns that were on the table that you thought you had seen the night before?
MARK BALL: I didn't point out the guns. I told them that there had been guns there.
MR. GRIFFIN: When you're on the property on the -- I guess the -- the morning of -- on the 8th at some point in time, did you observe an employee that had been working on the property for Alex, an individual by the name of C.B. Rowe?
MARK BALL: I did.
MR. GRIFFIN: And did you take pictures of his vehicle for some reason?
MARK BALL: I took pictures of a vehicle. I didn't know whose vehicle it was. There was a vehicle that had pulled up underneath -- again, if you're standing in front of the hangar where the big door -- it would have been to the right, and there was a truck that had pulled up in there and didn't have a license tag on it, and when I walked by it there was a jug of Clorox, and I can't remember what else was in the there, but it was a jug of Clorox in there, and I just thought that was odd, so I --
MR. GRIFFIN: Where was the Clorox?
MARK BALL: It was in the bed of the truck, and I took a couple of pictures of it and turned it over to SLED.
MR. GRIFFIN: And why did -- why did you take pictures?
MARK BALL: It just looked odd. You know, two people had gotten killed and, you know, there's Clorox around.
MR. GRIFFIN: Okay. There's been some -- I won't make a statement. Did you see any coolers on the property down there?
MARK BALL: I did. There was --
MR. GRIFFIN: Where did you see a cooler?
MARK BALL: When I walked around the bottom part near the -- between the skinning shed, and hangars, and the other shed, there was an open cooler there, or looked like a Yeti style cooler, and I can't tell you whether it was a Yeti or not, but it was one of those thicker coolers, and there was probably a dozen beer cans around it that night, and the next day when I walked by it, it was still there. I just thought it -- with all the people and the hoopla that had gone on that it didn't look very good.
MR. GRIFFIN: Did you -- I mean, was that the only thing that stood out by the cooler, the beer cans around it?
MARK BALL: The beer cans, yeah. It looked like somebody had unloaded a boat or something and just kind of thrown them out of the boat and forgot about them and left them.
MR. GRIFFIN: Did -- what kind of law do you practice?
MARK BALL: Civil.
MR. GRIFFIN: Plaintiff's? Defense?
MARK BALL: Mostly plaintiff's. Occasionally I'll defend a small business or a farmer or something like that, but --
MR. GRIFFIN: Okay.
MARK BALL: -- for the most part it's all plaintiff's.
MR. GRIFFIN: During the course of your practice, have you had experience with getting cell phone records of, you know, parties to find out information?
MARK BALL: I have. It's pretty regular now. I mean, just about every defense lawyer asks and every plaintiff's lawyer asks because so many people are texting or talking on the phone when they rear-end somebody or crash into somebody or whatever, and you want to know if you ask them were you on the phone and they said no, and, you know, it shows up on the bill, then they probably are on the phone.
MR. GRIFFIN: And as part of your, I guess, concern about Maggie, and Paul, and Alex, did you pull his cell phone records?
MARK BALL: Well, I was asked to pull them, and yeah, we provided them to both SLED and to your office, I believe, for Alex's cell phone records.
MR. GRIFFIN: And if you're trying to get information from an opposing party or something about cell phone records, is it -- are the records more reliable than the actual handheld phone device --
MR. WATERS: Objection, Your Honor.
MR. GRIFFIN: -- in your experience?
MR. WATERS: 401, 402, beyond the scope of this person's knowledge.
MARK BALL: I --
JUDGE NEWMAN: Did you hear the objection? Since you're a lawyer, as you know, you don't respond until the Court rules. Response to the objection?
MR. GRIFFIN: There's been testimony about deleted call logs, Your Honor, and this addresses that issue.
JUDGE NEWMAN: Anything further?
MR. WATERS: Nothing from the State, Your Honor.
JUDGE NEWMAN: The objection is overruled.
MARK BALL: I don't know that aspect of it. That's a technical -- I get the records because they're more accessible than getting the download and going through the -- there are cases that you may want to get a download, but the run of the mill cases, truck wrecks and stuff, the records of the cell phone call records tend to answer the question that I'm asking.
MR. GRIFFIN: You've known Alex for thirty-plus years?
MARK BALL: Yes, sir.
MR. GRIFFIN: Do you recognize his voice?
MARK BALL: Yes, sir.
MR. GRIFFIN: And I think at one point in time, were you asked to identify his voice on a video down at the kennel?
MARK BALL: Yes, sir.
MR. GRIFFIN: And did you do so?
MARK BALL: Yes, sir.
MR. GRIFFIN: And did you determine it was Alex's voice?
MARK BALL: Alex, and Maggie, and Paul.
MR. GRIFFIN: And you told that to SLED.
MARK BALL: Yes, sir.
MR. GRIFFIN: Have you listened to a tape that's been played in this courtroom about whether Alex said I did them so bad or they did them so bad?
MR. WATERS: Objection. 401 and 402 and beyond the scope of this witness's knowledge.
JUDGE NEWMAN: The objection is overruled.
MARK BALL: I was sent a snippet and asked the question what it was and --
MR. GRIFFIN: Hang on, I'm not getting your response. So, let's --
MR. GRIFFIN: Your Honor, we would like to play the snippet from State's Exhibit 153 for this witness.
JUDGE NEWMAN: Your witness.
MR. GRIFFIN: Thank you, Your Honor.
MR. WATERS: And, Your Honor, I would object. I believe that this witness was not present for this conversation. And again, I would object under 401 and 402 and relevance to his commentary on that particular exhibit.
JUDGE NEWMAN: The objection is overruled.
(The audio was played. Audio not transcribed.)
MARK BALL: It sounds like they to me.
MR. GRIFFIN: Right.
MARK BALL: I played the snippet multiple times, and --
MR. GRIFFIN: And is it consistent with what he told you the night of the murders?
MARK BALL: It is.
MR. GRIFFIN: Do you remember in, I think, February 2019, that Paul Murdaugh was involved in a boating accident?
MARK BALL: I do.
MR. GRIFFIN: And are you aware that he was criminally charged?
MARK BALL: I am.
MR. GRIFFIN: And then Alex and, I believe, Buster were civilly sued?
MARK BALL: Yes, sir.
MR. GRIFFIN: And did you work on the case formally?
MARK BALL: Not formally, no. I was about to get in after the murders, along with several other partners.
MR. GRIFFIN: Did -- leading up to the murders, did you have conversations with Alex about the civil case and the criminal case?
MARK BALL: I did about the civil case to begin with, and then when the charges came out, I talked with he and Randolph.
MR. GRIFFIN: What was Alex, if you know, with what he expressed to you, his priority between the two matters was?
MARK BALL: Well, obviously the criminal matter was much more pressing for him.
MR. GRIFFIN: And in your conversations with him, did you gain an understanding of his concern about the civil case?
MARK BALL: Yeah, somewhat, but --
MR. GRIFFIN: How concerning was the civil case?
MARK BALL: Well, I mean, obviously any time you get sued, you'd better be concerned about it. And, you know, it was -- the whole boating accident as a whole was very negative towards him, towards Paul, and the entire family, or his entire family, and so, you know, it was obviously a -- it wasn't a nothing, but at the same time I read the complaint, several partners in my -- lawyers in my firm read the complaint, and at the time that he was sued the causes of action against Alex were drafted probably to try to get as much insurance coverage as they could, which is what you do as a plaintiff's lawyer. You're looking for coverage. It doesn't -- you don't want to make allegations that get you out of coverage. And it was very vanilla against him. The allegations again Alex were that -- I sort of referred to them, and others did as well, as sort of bad parenting. You had an adult child that the allegation was that you allowed him to go out and drink, and when you're eighteen you pretty much get to do what you want, and you've reached your majority, and so I didn't really -- I thought it was very defensible as to that, those causes of action at that time, or that cause of action, and I think he did, too, but I don't know what he thought.
MR. GRIFFIN: Right. Did at some point in time Alex, was he forced to resign from the firm?
MARK BALL: He was, September the 3rd.
MR. GRIFFIN: What day was it?
MARK BALL: September the 3rd.
MR. GRIFFIN: And after that, did you have an opportunity to look into his office?
MARK BALL: I did. He resigned on the 3rd, then there was the incident on the 4th, and I left the scene over there on Old Salkehatchie and went by the office, and I had also been in his office on Friday after he resigned.
MR. GRIFFIN: Did -- when you were in his office, did you find any paperwork that looked like he had been working on for the boating case?
MARK BALL: Not until the 5th.
MR. GRIFFIN: Okay. What paperwork did you find on the 5th?
MARK BALL: The 5th I went in and started really -- because we have an obligation to those clients he was representing, and I didn't want files just laying around. It was Labor Day weekend, all of this hoopla and emotion of, you know, the murders, the issues with Alex leaving the firm, and then that Saturday. And so that Sunday I went into the office, and went to his office and started going through to make sure that any client files were put over and stacked, you know, over there. And as I was going through, I found checks that he had deposited with his telephone that were some of the funds that sort of started all of this mess with the Faris case. They were laying -- one was on top of his desk; one was in a drawer. I pulled out one the drawers and there was a tablet, a legal tablet, that had numbers written down on it as far as debts and assets, and, you know, just kind of the scribblings of kind of what you owe and what you've got.
MR. GRIFFIN: I mean, would it be something that you would normally see on a net worth statement?
MARK BALL: It would be the same information. When I think of a net worth statement, I think of the form that a bank sends you, but, yeah, it obviously -- he was listing what he had and what he owed.
MR. GRIFFIN: And is it something -- the type of format you've seen in civil litigation where a defendant is required to produce net worth?
MARK BALL: Not in the same form, but in the same information.
MR. GRIFFIN: I skipped another topic. After Maggie and Paul's death, did you collect her jewelry?
MARK BALL: I did. I got a call on the Wednesday, I believe, after the murders on Monday from the coroner. His wife and my wife had worked as surgical nurses at Hampton Hospital together, and then my wife ended up being the supervisor over that area, and I then -- so, I knew them very well, and I've known Rich for thirty years. He called and said that Lorie had cleaned up the jewelry and, you know, whenever Alex wanted it. And I said, well, I'll come get it, and so I met him. Ronnie Crosby and I came over to his office, picked it up, signed for it, and I carried it back to the house.
MR. GRIFFIN: And within the jewelry, do you remember the wedding ring and the wedding bands and other jewelry?
MARK BALL: There were rings. I can't tell you. I didn't -- there was -- the thing that sticks out to me was she had a diamond bracelet on and it was in pieces, and he said he had tried to find all the pieces, but there was still some missing, but I wasn't paying attention so much to -- just didn't -- it didn't feel right looking around and snooping around in somebody else's stuff.
MR. GRIFFIN: Knowing Alex for thirty years, did you develop an assessment of his relationship with his family, Maggie, Paul, and Buster?
MARK BALL: Well, I'll tell you this. The person I thought I knew loved his family, or appeared to love his family very much, he would take their calls, he would do all of those things. After, you know, September the 3rd, I'm not sure I know that person, and so -- but he always seemed to be devoted to everything, their ballgames, their -- he would aggravate the hell out of me when you would be in a deposition and they would call and he would answer it. And, you know, you would be in a meeting or whatever and he always took their calls, whereas my wife and my children never called me unless it was a true emergency. And Alex took their calls, whether it was they needed a gallon of milk or, you know, they had something important to tell him, and then he always took their calls.
MR. GRIFFIN: And did you see them together frequently?
MARK BALL: I did. They went places; you would see pictures of them. I think Maggie was a pretty prolific Facebook, text, whatever. I'm not on any social media, but my daughter or my wife would show me pictures of where they'd been, or ballgames, different things like that. They -- I never saw anything that indicated to me that there was anything out of way with any of the relationships, including the drug stuff. I had no --
MR. GRIFFIN: Yeah. Let me ask you. Were you aware that he had an opioid addiction?
MARK BALL: None.
MR. GRIFFIN: Were any of the partners aware that he had an opioid addiction?
MARK BALL: None to my knowledge. I mean, that was not a subject matter that ever came up. I mean, it was -- and, you know, Paul, I think, has been sort of demonized by this whole affair and it's just not fair. I mean, Paul is like a lot of young people I know. You know, they're kind of trying to find where the fence is, and sometimes they get, you know, going a little fast and, you know, blow through some things. But Paul was a good kid. He was always polite to me. I never had any -- I never had one single solitary issue with him at all, and I knew he had done some things, you know, that most kids can -- you know, are mischievous do. And on at least one occasion I went to Alex and told him that I thought that Paul needed to be throttled back a little bit. I saw some videos of him driving fast, and I don't know what Alex did, but that was -- our firm was very much of a family. I mean, if you were a member of our firm, and it didn't matter whether you were a lawyer or one of our folks. I mean, our staff is family as well, and if they have a problem, we all have a problem, and so if -- we look out for each other, and we did. Unfortunately, Alex betrayed that when he stole the money, and -- but, you know, the outward things that you saw of Alex with his kids and his wife were just that. I mean, they were what I observed, not -- nobody knows what goes on behind closed doors --
MR. GRIFFIN: Sure.
MARK BALL: -- but they were -- seemed to enjoy each other's company.
MR. GRIFFIN: Right.
MR. GRIFFIN: Begging the Court's indulgence.
(Break in proceedings.)
MR. GRIFFIN: I have no further questions.
JUDGE NEWMAN: All right. Mr. Waters?
MR. WATERS: May it please the Court?
JUDGE NEWMAN: Yes, sir.
MARK BALL: Mr. Waters, can I steal one of your waters there?
MR. WATERS: Absolutely.
MARK BALL: Thank you.
MR. WATERS: There you go.
CROSS-EXAMINATION
BY MR. WATERS:
MR. WATERS: He was pretty good at hiding who he really was, wasn't he?
MARK BALL: Obviously.
MR. WATERS: You've known him for thirty-four years?
MARK BALL: I knew him for thirty-four -- or I have known him for thirty-four years, and --
MR. WATERS: Thought y'all were pretty good friends?
MARK BALL: Thought so.
MR. WATERS: Interacted many times a week?
MARK BALL: We had -- his son Buster and my daughter were in school all the way from kindergarten on, and I would see him at work, you know, early on. He didn't work for us immediately when he came out of law school. He worked for Jim Moss and Moss and Kuhn, and then he came to us about five or six years after that.
MR. WATERS: But you've shared a business with him for how long?
MARK BALL: Probably twenty some-odd years.
MR. WATERS: He was your partner?
MARK BALL: He was a partner.
MR. WATERS: You trusted him?
MARK BALL: You have to, and I did.
MR. WATERS: And outwardly through your experience, he was a good lawyer. He was a partner to you. He was someone you could trust and rely on, wasn't he?
MARK BALL: I'm sorry, I didn't hear the first --
MR. WATERS: Outwardly from what you observed --
MARK BALL: Yes, sir.
MR. WATERS: -- he was a good partner. He was a good lawyer. He was someone in part of your business, someone that you could trust and rely on. Is that true?
MARK BALL: Yes, he was.
MR. WATERS: And outwardly you thought that he had a good relationship with his family. Is that correct?
MARK BALL: That is correct.
MR. WATERS: But you have just testified that you didn't really know this man, did you?
MARK BALL: Obviously I did not. I mean, had we known the things he was doing, we wouldn't have been law partners.
MR. WATERS: You were asked about the kennel video.
MARK BALL: Yes, sir.
MR. WATERS: And you've had a chance to review that kennel video?
MARK BALL: A couple of times.
MR. WATERS: And you and I have talked quite a few times. Is that correct?
MARK BALL: We have. I didn't see the kennel video until probably a month or two ago.
MR. WATERS: All right, and -- but you've reviewed it here recently. Is that correct?
MARK BALL: I have several times.
MR. WATERS: All right, and any doubt in your mind that Alex Murdaugh, Maggie, and Paul were on that kennel video at 8:44 p.m. on June 7, 2021?
MARK BALL: None.
MR. WATERS: No doubt in your mind.
MARK BALL: No doubt.
MR. WATERS: Do I need to play for you again or no doubt in your mind?
MARK BALL: I played it all I want to hear it.
MR. WATERS: Well, let's talk about that just a little bit, and we'll talk more in detail, but I want to go ahead and cover this. You saw Alex the night of the murders?
MARK BALL: I did.
MR. WATERS: And you knew Maggie very well and you knew Paul very well.
MARK BALL: I did.
MR. WATERS: And you went to the scene where Alex was. Is that right?
MARK BALL: I did.
MR. WATERS: And did you even ride with Alex or take Alex back over to the house?
MARK BALL: I'm pretty sure he rode back over to the house, he and -- I think he and Randy because their vehicles were impounded over there.
MR. WATERS: And did you eventually, as things started to move forward, sit down on the couch with him back at the house?
MARK BALL: I did.
MR. WATERS: Fix yourself a liquor drink?
MARK BALL: Probably a heavy one.
MR. WATERS: I get it, and did you talk to Alex about what he did that night?
MARK BALL: I don't know whether it was -- I know on the couch we talked, but I talked to him several times, including before the masses got there as to trying to figure out do you know anything. Do you have any idea who did this.
MR. WATERS: Because you were very concerned. You wanted to get to the bottom of this, right?
MARK BALL: For a lot of reasons.
MR. WATERS: For a lot of reasons. For the family, for what happened to Maggie and Paul, for the law firm, for all of the people involved?
MARK BALL: All of it, and the safety of -- you know, if it was something to do with him and the law practice, we didn't want somebody to show back up at the front door and harm our folks. We didn't want them to harm any of the other lawyers' families if it was some person that was deranged. We just didn't know. I mean, this isn't an ordinary occurrence in your practice of law.
MR. WATERS: Your thought -- you were his buddy, been partners for thirty-four years. Y'all were sitting on the couch. Is that right?
MARK BALL: Like family.
MR. WATERS: And you start talking to him. Is he responding to your questions appropriately?
MARK BALL: He was.
MR. WATERS: Answering the correct subject matter?
MARK BALL: He was. He was very upset obviously. I mean --
MR. WATERS: Sure, but he was answering your questions. He wasn't unable to make sentences and blubbering.
MARK BALL: He was, yeah.
MR. WATERS: And did you talk to him about what he did that night?
MARK BALL: Yeah.
MR. WATERS: And did he deny ever going down to those kennels to his buddy and law partner of thirty-four years?
MARK BALL: He said that he ate dinner, laid down on the couch, took a nap, and then left to check on M.
MR. WATERS: And now you know that's not true from seeing the kennel video, right?
MARK BALL: I do.
MR. WATERS: And that wasn't the only time he told you that either, is it?
MARK BALL: No, at least three times.
MR. WATERS: At least three times, and this would be over the subsequent days?
MARK BALL: Yes, sir.
MR. WATERS: Subsequent conversations that you had with him?
MARK BALL: Yes, sir.
MR. WATERS: And he was always clear that he never went down to those kennels after he -- after they ate dinner?
MARK BALL: It was the same version of it, but it wasn't always just me.
MR. WATERS: Okay, and we'll talk about that. What -- who else was present in some of those conversations?
MARK BALL: I mean, there were other law partners, and I can't tell you exactly who all was there, but, I mean, I know that on that Thursday following this there was -- I heard him say it then.
MR. WATERS: Okay, and there were other law partners there?
MARK BALL: Yes.
MR. WATERS: Were there family there?
MARK BALL: I don't know whether they were in the room at the time or not. I just know there were law partners there.
MR. WATERS: Was Jim Griffin there?
MARK BALL: I can't speak as to what -- he was present on the property, but I don't know whether he was there.
MR. WATERS: And did Alex tell the same version of events, that he never went down to those kennels?
MARK BALL: Yeah, he did, but I don't know whether Mr. Griffin was there. We were there before Mr. Griffin was there.
MR. WATERS: Did -- in his conversations with you, did he ever change his story about who he checked first at the scene supposedly?
MARK BALL: I've heard it both ways, and I don't know whether it's just a -- I don't know whether it's just because of the trauma of the situation, but one time it was -- the first time I remember he checked Maggie first and then went to Paul, and then I heard him say at one point it was Paul and then it was Maggie. It didn't really matter to me. It wasn't something I really was picking up on because it was horrendous either way. I mean, I can't imagine seeing my wife dead and my son dead in such a brutal manner, so I never put any real stock in that, but it did oscillate.
MR. WATERS: Is did oscillate from what he was saying?
MARK BALL: From the first time I heard it.
MR. WATERS: The story changed.
MARK BALL: Well, yeah, as to which was which.
MR. WATERS: Okay. Over the days following this event, this law firm, as you've said, was like a family, right?
MARK BALL: It was.
MR. WATERS: You thought you were very close to this man, just like you feel close to your other law partners and their families and the staff and everybody else.
MARK BALL: It wasn't just the lawyers that felt that way. It was -- I mean --
MR. WATERS: The paralegals --
MARK BALL: At the funeral the paralegals were there. The law firm shut down. They were also on -- we had to go on a heightened alert. I contacted SLED about what we should be doing because there was a statement that came out about there was no -- they didn't know of any danger to the public, and I -- we were left with trying to make sure that sixty or seventy-five people that work with us are all safe when they go home to their families, and SLED responded. I called the lieutenant over here, and he called me back that evening and, you know, was very helpful as far as trying to tell us -- you know, he said I don't know of any specific threats, but, you know, here are some precautions, and I think what y'all are doing is the right thing. And they were helpful and -- but there's still that undertow of, you know, who did this and are they going to -- and it just -- people were just on edge all the time.
MR. WATERS: And you're not a criminal lawyer or a prosecutor I think you said?
MARK BALL: I'm not.
MR. WATERS: But still a lawyer, and so you and your partners, including his brother Randy, were very focused on trying to figure out what happened here, what is wrong here, correct? What happened on June 7, 2021, right?
MARK BALL: Sure.
MR. WATERS: Very focused on that, were you not?
MARK BALL: We were. I mean, it was taking a lot of time off.
MR. WATERS: But he was not, was he? You've said that before, have you not?
MARK BALL: I have said that, but I don't know, Mr. Waters, how I would respond if I had lost -- and I've told you the same thing. I don't know how you're supposed to react when you lose your wife and your child in such a brutal manner, but, no, to answer your question. I didn't see him on the phone like I was trying to call clients and did you hear anything, did you see anything, those kinds of things. So, I mean, the answer is no, I didn't see him doing that. I wasn't around him all the time, but no, I did not.
MR. WATERS: And you've already testified that you and other law partners and family and the staff were very concerned about potential threats because of what happened on June 7th. Is that right?
MARK BALL: Very concerned.
MR. WATERS: And you thought it odd, though, that he was not concerned about any threats even to Buster, correct?
MARK BALL: Well, I wouldn't put it that way. The night that this happened, I asked Alex about where Buster was and he said we've gotten ahold of him. Brooklynn is bringing him, and I said are you sure he's all right? And he said yeah, he's riding with Brooklynn, and that's -- I said do you think he needs any protection or something along those lines. I don't know that it was exactly those words, and he said he'll be here in a little while. He'll be fine, but he was so addled I didn't -- I didn't hang anything on anything Alex was saying.
MR. WATERS: But after that in the days that followed, you continued to interact with him. He never asked for any protection or expressed any concern about protection for Buster, did he?
MARK BALL: Not to me he did not.
MR. WATERS: Not to you.
MARK BALL: You know, the only thing I can tell you is that the 4th of July he came to Ronnie's -- Ronnie Crosby's house and he had a pistol in his bag, which was, to me, was unusual. Of course, in classic Alex, Buster, and Paul's style, he ended up leaving the bag there when he left.
MR. WATERS: This law firm has been in existence for how long?
MARK BALL: 1910.
MR. WATERS: 1910?
MARK BALL: Was. We're no longer.
MR. WATERS: I'm sorry?
MARK BALL: We're no longer. We're no longer --
MR. WATERS: It was until he came along, right? Until all of this happened, right?
MARK BALL: Until September of 2021.
MR. WATERS: September of 2021, and was a relative of Alex, his great grandfather, was part of that initial law firm. Is that right?
MARK BALL: His great grandfather was the beginning of that law firm.
MR. WATERS: And was he also the solicitor for the 14th Circuit for this area of the state?
MARK BALL: He was from, I believe, 1920 until 1940 when he was killed in a train accident.
MR. WATERS: And then did the defendant's grandfather become solicitor?
MARK BALL: Buster --
MR. WATERS: The chief prosecutor for this area?
MARK BALL: Buster took over in 1940 and was the solicitor until 1946, and then Randolph was appointed by the governor, and then was until he was seventy-two.
MR. WATERS: And his father became solicitor is what you just said. Is that right?
MARK BALL: Randolph.
MR. WATERS: Until about when?
MARK BALL: Randolph was eighty-two when he passed away, so ten years ago maybe around there, and Buster became -- Buster left the solicitor's office in '86 when he became seventy- two, at the end of '86. Beginning of '87, I think, Randolph took over, and Buster became the assistant solicitor.
MR. WATERS: All right, and how long was Randolph solicitor?
MARK BALL: Until about ten years ago, and was still an assistant when he passed, I believe.
MR. WATERS: Do what?
MARK BALL: I believe he was still an assistant solicitor --
MR. WATERS: Mr. Randolph was?
MARK BALL: Was.
MR. WATERS: And so was the defendant, too, wasn't he?
MARK BALL: He was in some form or fashion.
MR. WATERS: He had a badge. Did you ever see a badge that he had?
MARK BALL: I did.
MR. WATERS: Where did he keep that badge that you saw?
MARK BALL: Usually it was on the corner of his dashboard.
MR. WATERS: Driving around with it in the front of his dashboard?
MARK BALL: A lot of times, yeah.
MR. WATERS: This family is very, very powerful, are they not, and very influential in this community?
MARK BALL: I mean, they had a very good name. They had -- I mean, they were -- you know, they were known to help you with your problems.
MR. WATERS: How important was that family legacy to the defendant?
MARK BALL: Very. It would seem to be very important.
MR. WATERS: I think you've said that it was more important to him than anybody else that you observed.
MARK BALL: It seemed that way. I mean, whenever there would be discussions of name changes or anything, he would be very involved in that, much more involved in that than he would be in other business matters.
MR. WATERS: And he even talked to you about wanting -- that being the defendant -- wanting to be solicitor as well.
MARK BALL: At one time, yeah.
MR. WATERS: You talked a little bit about the scene, and there were -- when you arrived, there were other law partners there as well. Is that right?
MARK BALL: Not when I arrived. Randy was there.
MR. WATERS: Randy was there. Other law partners showed up.
MARK BALL: Showed up over the next hour and a half or so from Jasper County, from Beaufort, and all over.
MR. WATERS: And there were a lot of powerful attorneys at that scene as it was being processed, including the defendant. Is that right?
MARK BALL: Well, obviously Alex was there and the rest of us, and then -- I don't know of any other lawyers at the scene other than us, us being our firm members.
MR. WATERS: And was law enforcement always polite and respectful during this entire process?
MARK BALL: Absolutely.
MR. WATERS: And when they came to the house that day, the video where the -- Jeff Croft came in and searched for those guns, were they polite and respectful?
MARK BALL: They very polite.
MR. WATERS: Did they have a long conversation, because they knew family were in the house, about trying to do this as delicately as they can without upsetting everybody and doing some big search and running everybody out of the house and all of that stuff.
MARK BALL: Katie and I -- I apologize. I can't remember her last name. She offered to take off all of her identification, her gun, and all of that, and we told her that wasn't necessary --
JUDGE NEWMAN: The chair will move to microphone, if you speak a little louder.
MARK BALL: Okay. Sure. That's usually not a problem.
MR. WATERS: If you scoot up a little bit, that might help, too, so you don't have to lean forward.
MARK BALL: Yeah. Yeah, they -- I mean, Katie offered to really, you know, be very behind the scenes so to speak, and everybody -- I've not had -- you know, the vast majority of them had been extremely polite and very, very responsive to anything that we asked.
MR. WATERS: Because of all of the family there and the tragedy that happened, they were very delicate and respectful of that when they came to the house that day. Is that correct?
MARK BALL: In looking back, they probably were too much.
MR. WATERS: But they were.
MARK BALL: They were very.
MR. WATERS: You said that Alex would always ride in his Suburban with that badge up in the front dashboard to your observation, right?
MARK BALL: I don't know that he always did, but a --
MR. WATERS: A lot of time?
MARK BALL: -- lot of the time.
MR. WATERS: And he also carried -- generally carried a pistol in the car, too, didn't he?
MARK BALL: I didn't know that. I can't testify --
MR. WATERS: But you've heard that now, haven't you?
MARK BALL: I've heard that, but I didn't know that.
MR. WATERS: What was Alex like with his cell phone? He was on it all of the time, wasn't he?
MARK BALL: He was on the cell phone all the time.
MR. WATERS: He would constantly be using it, constantly responding to calls in the middle of conversations, always had it with him, to your observation, being his law partner for thirty some-odd years. Is that correct?
MARK BALL: He was an obnoxious user of his cell phone.
MR. WATERS: And would it have been unusual for him to go down to those kennels without his cell phone with him?
MARK BALL: I mean --
MR. WATERS: You've said that, haven't you?
MARK BALL: I don't know whether I've said that or not said it, but I would think it would be unusual for Alex to go anywhere without his phone.
MR. WATERS: What was his -- what was he like as a lawyer? What were his -- was he a very academic or -- type lawyer, or was he -- were his skills elsewhere?
MARK BALL: Well, I mean, Alex was a very good lawyer. He was -- he got good results for his clients. He got -- you know, he could look at a set of facts and really do well with them, figuring out where the -- where to go with the issue, where to push and where to not push and pull, and he was very good tactically, you know. I wouldn't say that I'm a great academic lawyer. I think I'm pretty good at figuring out where the seams are to figure out the solution, and I think Alex was much more like I am in that respect as far as looking at the facts and talking with people. Alex never met anybody that he didn't -- he couldn't talk to. He could talk to a fence post.
MR. WATERS: Talk to a fence post. I think you've said that people were his trade.
MARK BALL: They were.
MR. WATERS: And he understood the emotion of cases very well, did he not?
MARK BALL: He did.
MR. WATERS: And he could be very convincing with people, as you've come to find out from what all that you've uncovered. Is that correct?
MARK BALL: Absolutely. He convinced us for -- since 2006.
MR. WATERS: Effortlessly and easily lied to you for years and you didn't know it.
MARK BALL: Didn't know it --
MR. WATERS: Is that correct?
MARK BALL: Didn't know it and didn't catch it. In fact, you know, it just -- the way he was doing it was very, very cunning.
MR. WATERS: Cunning. Who is -- remind the jury. Jeannie Seckinger is -- it's been a long trial, but remind the jury who she is.
MARK BALL: She is the in-house accountant, CFO. She's the money person, but she goes beyond that. She did the management stuff. She would be the person that -- at one time she was kind of managing the non-lawyer staff, but she could still rein in the lawyers as well.
MR. WATERS: And in the wake of all of this financial stuff that came up on September 4th, she was one of ones tasked with going through and figuring out the extent of what he had done. Is that correct?
MARK BALL: She and I were went through a lot.
MR. WATERS: And you worked on that as well. Is that correct?
MARK BALL: Right. One of the things that has come up, and there was this issue that happened back in 2017 where we had -- at the beginning of the year, the law firm depletes all of the money, and then you have to start off the year where money is coming in, and you may not have enough to cover your bills in January and February. So, we do a loan, and generally the partners, the ones that want to participate, would put money in, and then they would get paid back as soon as we got on the cash positive in the new year. And there was an issue in 2017 where Alex was paid -- he didn't put the money in, but the check was written to him by mistake, and I've gone back and looked at it and made sure, but his name and Randy's name appeared one over the other, and it was just a fat finger or just a missed thing with the mouse, and the check was generated to Alex. And then there was a second check generated, one in March, one in April, the one check was negotiated in May, I think. The other check stayed on his desk and was negotiated the next October. Well, what that did was that threw out our -- and this is in our operating account. It -- not -- it wasn't client money, so it threw our operating account out of balance, and when we started looking at it, then we realized that he wasn't the one that was supposed to have gotten paid. We had basically a pow-wow. Our president, Danny Henderson, went to him, talked to him about it, and Alex swore it was just a mistake and he paid back the money with interest because Randy had been out his money, was --
MR. WATERS: Paid it back with stolen money, correct?
MARK BALL: Well, I don't -- I didn't know that. I mean, he paid it back, and I think there had been testimony that somehow that got swept under the rug. It did not get swept under the rug at all. It was investigated, but everything seemed to make sense because the check was written to him. He cashed a check that was written to him. And while I might know whether or not I had an extra 123,000 or whatever it was, or 21, Alex always seemed just sort of disheveled with his own funds. So, it made enough sense and it, it -- there wasn't enough there to get in a brouhaha and, you know, terminate somebody or create more of a fuss than it was, but it wasn't swept under the rug. Everything seemed to fall into place at the time. Now, obviously had we known any of the other stuff at the time that we found out in September, then it would have been a different story.
MR. WATERS: But bottom line is he got -- it got discovered: Oops, it was a big mistake, he says. He pays it back, and people move on, right?
MARK BALL: And that was in 2018.
MR. WATERS: That was in 2018, and we're talking about the check written that was supposed to go to his brother that went to him instead.
MARK BALL: Right.
MR. WATERS: And he was never one to loan money for those operating expenses generally. Is that right?
MARK BALL: I think he had loaned once or twice, but not --
MR. WATERS: Once or twice.
MARK BALL: -- but it wasn't regular.
MR. WATERS: Right, and not around this time period, correct?
MARK BALL: I didn't go back and look at that part of it. I was more --
MR. WATERS: It was $125,000 roughly, or something like that?
MARK BALL: 121 or 125.
MR. WATERS: All right.
MARK BALL: I was more concerned about how it happened to begin with. Randy's initial are R.M. and Alex's initials in our system is R.A.M., so that was --
MR. WATERS: And what he did was, was he gets that check and instead of saying this isn't 120 some-odd thousand dollars for me, he actually goes to staff a couple of days later and says I lost that check. Cut me another one, right?
MARK BALL: Yes, sir.
MR. WATERS: He then he cashes that one, right?
MARK BALL: He eventually cashes --
MR. WATERS: He cashes the second one?
MARK BALL: -- the first one, yeah.
MR. WATERS: -- in pretty short order, correct?
MARK BALL: He cashes the first one in October the next year.
MR. WATERS: And then sits on the other one for an extended period of time and then cashes that one, right?
MARK BALL: He did.
MR. WATERS: Steals the same money twice, right?
MARK BALL: Yes, sir.
MR. WATERS: What was the word you used before, cunning?
MARK BALL: Very cunning.
MR. WATERS: And you mentioned that it wasn't swept under the rug, but he said, oh, it was a big mistake, and he pays the money back and then people move on even though they -- because, okay, it's just Alex, that sort of thing, correct?
MARK BALL: Correct.
MR. WATERS: But there were other instances like that, too, over the years. For example, using private planes for personal use and billing that to the firm. Is that right?
MARK BALL: Uh --
MR. WATERS: Or to --
MARK BALL: Well --
MR. WATERS: Or explain that.
MARK BALL: Some of that, but the biggest thing was the credit cards, using -- he just wasn't a very good rule follower at all.
MR. WATERS: With other people's money, right?
MARK BALL: Well, yeah. I mean, any time during the law firm -- or you're working for somebody and you've got a card or a check that's got their name on it, then you owe them a responsibility to spend it properly, and --
MR. WATERS: It's other people's money, right?
MARK BALL: It's other people's money.
MR. WATERS: And he would spend personal use on credit cards and y'all would have to talk to him about that, right?
MARK BALL: Yes, sir.
MR. WATERS: And that was going on repeatedly, correct?
MARK BALL: Up until the end.
MR. WATERS: Put tuition on firm credit cards for one of his children, correct?
MARK BALL: He did.
MR. WATERS: Had to talk to him about that, right?
MARK BALL: Yes, sir.
MR. WATERS: And he would pay it back and then people would move on, right? And that had been going on for years, had it not?
MARK BALL: It had, but there were other people that would --
MR. WATERS: But not like him, right?
MARK BALL: Not to that degree.
MR. WATERS: Not like him.
MARK BALL: Not to that degree.
MR. WATERS: Now, you talked a little bit about the boat case, but back in May of 2021, Jeannie came to you and told you about what Annette and discovered about them receiving the expense check in the Faris case but not the fee check, right?
MARK BALL: Sometime in that frame -- timeframe, yes.
MR. WATERS: Okay, and your initial concern was -- and you were concerned. You were concerned that he was going to try to hide assets because of the boat case. That was part of your concern, and the firm was not going to participate in that if that's not -- if that was what was going on.
MARK BALL: That's correct. That he was either going to structure them or leave them in somebody else's trust account until it had passed. I mean, we weren't going to -- we weren't going to fudge our books for that benefit.
MR. WATERS: And you were aware that in the boat case they were seeking a personal recovery against Alex, correct?
MARK BALL: Yes, sir.
MR. WATERS: And that caused you concern because this firm was not going to participate in helping him hide assets because of this boat case, correct? That was your concern.
MARK BALL: He or anybody else.
MR. WATERS: Or anybody else, and you had continued conversations with Jeannie over the next few weeks about that because she couldn't get a straight answer as to what he had done with those fees, correct?
MARK BALL: Myself and Jeannie and at least two other partners.
MR. WATERS: Lee Cope --
MARK BALL: Lee Cope.
MR. WATERS: -- another partner?
MARK BALL: And Ronnie Crosby.
MR. WATERS: And Ronnie Crosby, and you couldn't get a straight answer, could you?
MARK BALL: Well, we weren't getting a straight answer, so we continued -- but we didn't want to make it a big deal if it wasn't a big deal, but because we didn't have the information, we couldn't make a decision.
MR. WATERS: And then on June 7, 2021, Jeannie went in there to demand that straight answer, correct?
MARK BALL: Yes, sir. I didn't know that until June the 8th.
MR. WATERS: But you knew it was coming to a head, didn't you?
MARK BALL: Yeah. I mean, Jeannie is tenacious. I mean, she's going to get to the answer. She's not going to let it go until -- and it wouldn't be just this. It would be anything.
MR. WATERS: But unlike the other times, Alex didn't have the money to pay it back and make it all go away, did he, this time?
MARK BALL: I didn't know that --
MR. WATERS: But you know that now, don't you?
MARK BALL: Well, yeah, obviously, every -- the whole world does.
MR. WATERS: Maggie was your friend?
MARK BALL: Who?
MR. WATERS: Maggie was your friend?
MARK BALL: She was all of our friends, yes. Paul was --
MR. WATERS: Paul was your friend?
MARK BALL: Sure. He was dear friends with my -- particularly my youngest daughter.
MR. WATERS: He was a good kid.
MARK BALL: He was a good kid. I mean, he had his issues like everybody else, you know. I don't know anybody who has raised children -- if they say they're perfect, then they need to write a book, but, I mean --
MR. WATERS: I don't think any of us want to be judged by what we did when we were eighteen or nineteen, do we?
MARK BALL: I don't want to be judged about what I did. I really don't want to be judged how I raised my children, but, you know, they -- those are individual decisions, but, you know, Paul was a good kid. He was always polite. He -- I could have picked up the phone and called Paul and said hey, I need some help over here on my farm. That kid would have come in in a heartbeat. He was just a good kid. Now, did he do some devilish things? Absolutely. I hear about them, and, you know, occasionally if I saw him I would say something to him about it, but he was a good kid. I mean, he was a great outdoorsman. He grew a garden. I mean, Randolph, who they called Handsome, I mean, he would do anything in the world, and any -- after the boat wreck, the two of them were almost glued together, and, I mean, it's just a total waste of a kid that hadn't ever found his potential yet but would have I'm quite confident.
MR. WATERS: And after this tragedy happened to the family that was this law firm, everybody was focused solely on that, coming to support one another and coming to support Alex Murdaugh. Is that right?
MARK BALL: Absolutely.
MR. WATERS: And the last thing on anyone's mind at that time was those dadgum Faris fees when this happened. Isn't that right? And you've said that.
MARK BALL: We actually, at least myself and one or two others, said, well, we'll have to put that on hold. I mean, it was a conscious -- it wasn't just we're not going to subconsciously, but we consciously said that we're going to. The man just lost his wife and child. There's no way we're going to be cruel. We'll get back to it later, and we did.
MR. WATERS: Got back to it later. A couple of months later, right, or a month later?
MARK BALL: A month later.
MR. WATERS: You're advised that, oh, wait a minute. Chris Wilson says he has those fees all along, right?
MARK BALL: That's what I was told.
MR. WATERS: All right, because in the wake of those murders, he had managed to borrow some money from Johnny Parker, right?
MARK BALL: I found that out later.
MR. WATERS: And he had managed to have Palmetto State Bank through Russell Laffitte give him $350,000 in undocumented funds, correct?
MARK BALL: I found that out later as well after --
MR. WATERS: And just like before you get an email saying yeah, I'm Chris Wilson and I've got the fees, and that kind of put the matter to bed at that point in time, right?
MARK BALL: That was in July, yes.
MR. WATERS: Paid it back again and -- or at least you think, and just like before people move on because you're still dealing with the tragedy of this terrible set of murders, correct?
MARK BALL: By July we were dealing with that and still this idea of the boat wreck, you know, and what he was going through. I mean, you rally around your family and your friends.
MR. WATERS: You rallied around him, right?
MARK BALL: Yeah, and that's not to any way throw cold water on any of the claims of the people in the boat wreck, but everybody deserves a defense, and, you know, you defend your friends and your family.
MR. WATERS: Sure.
MARK BALL: But you do it morally and honestly.
MR. WATERS: That's what people who think they're friends do, right?
MARK BALL: You hope they do.
MR. WATERS: September 3rd or thereabouts, Annette finds this Chris Wilson check in Alex's office, right?
MARK BALL: September the 2nd, I believe.
MR. WATERS: September 2nd, thank you. State's 313, I'll show it to you.
MARK BALL: I can't see that far.
MR. WATERS: Sorry.
JUDGE NEWMAN: Ladies and gentlemen, I think we'll take a short recess at this time. Please go to the jury room. Please do not discuss the case.
(The jury left the courtroom.)
JUDGE NEWMAN: We'll take about 10 minutes. Please do not discuss your testimony.
MR. HARPOOTLIAN: Your Honor, may I say something?
JUDGE NEWMAN: Yes, sir.
MR. HARPOOTLIAN: I've been coming and going through the courtroom. I want you to understand it's not disrespect to the Court. We have our next -- we have our two witnesses. We wanted to make sure we were ready to go as soon as this witness comes down. So, if you see me coming and going, I'm just ensuring the witness is let in the front door and put somewhere.
JUDGE NEWMAN: Yes, sir.
MR. HARPOOTLIAN: I apologize. It's not disrespect to the Court.
JUDGE NEWMAN: No problem. How much more do you have for this witness, do you think?
MR. WATERS: 20 minutes, Your Honor.
JUDGE NEWMAN: 20 minutes, and then you don't know, so we don't know. Okay.
MR. HARPOOTLIAN: Thank you, Your Honor.
JUDGE NEWMAN: It will be 10 minutes.
(A break was taken.)
JUDGE NEWMAN: If you would bring the jury.
(The jury returned to the courtroom.)
COURT BAILIFF: The jury is present, sir.
JUDGE NEWMAN: Yes, sir, thank you. You may proceed.
MR. WATERS: May it please the Court, Your Honor?
JUDGE NEWMAN: Yes, sir.
CONTINUED CROSS-EXAMINATION
BY MR. WATERS:
MR. WATERS: All right. I think when we left off I was showing you State's, what is that, 313, I believe?
MARK BALL: 313.
MR. WATERS: And that's the Faris check that was found in the defendant's office that he had lied to everyone and told that he never received?
MARK BALL: This is the first one.
MR. WATERS: One of them at least, correct?
MARK BALL: One of them. The first one that we knew of.
MR. WATERS: And then we're around September 2nd or something like that, and around that same time Jeannie starts spreading -- researching in y'all's system Forge and then finds all of the fake Forge checks. Is that right?
MARK BALL: She used the query Forge to see whether anything had been put into an annuity, any fees had been moved or put into an annuity, and a list came out of ten or twelve different cases.
MR. WATERS: And y'all called the real Forge and said do y'all have any of these clients? And they said no. Have y'all ever banked at Bank of America? They said no.
MARK BALL: We did, but in that list, about the four or fifth one was a client that I was representing, and the money was to be held in trust, and when we pulled up the documents, supporting documents, it had a notation on it that it was invested for three years, which I knew couldn't be. So, I went and called the client, and the client verified that he hadn't authorized anything, hadn't done anything, and I immediately told him that his funds would be put back in there, and I walked back across the street to Jeannie's office and told them we had a big problem.
MR. WATERS: And that was Thomas Moore, correct?
MARK BALL: That was Tommy Moore.
MR. WATERS: And that was a highway patrolman that had been injured, correct?
MARK BALL: Correct.
MR. WATERS: And Alex stole his money?
MARK BALL: He did.
MR. WATERS: And they had been friends, to your knowledge?
MARK BALL: As far as I -- acquaintances or friends. I'm not sure of their relationship.
MR. WATERS: And I'm not going to go through in great detail because it's already been done, but generally you and Jeannie were probably the main drivers of the investigation into all of this stuff in State's 314, this spreadsheet?
MARK BALL: All of us were involved, but I was with Jeannie the vast amount of time.
MR. WATERS: I'm sorry?
MARK BALL: I was with her the vast amount of the time going through the auditing and checking to see.
MR. WATERS: All right, and ultimately you had to reach out and talk to a lot of these clients, clients of Alex Murdaugh's, right?
MARK BALL: I did.
MR. WATERS: And you had to tell them what had happened.
MARK BALL: I did, including two weeks ago, or three weeks ago, another one.
MR. WATERS: And you had to tell them that Alex had lied to them, right?
MARK BALL: I did.
MR. WATERS: And they said Alex lied to me. He never told me that, correct?
MR. GRIFFIN: Objection. Hearsay.
JUDGE NEWMAN: Response?
MR. WATERS: I'll move on.
JUDGE NEWMAN: All right.
MR. WATERS: You had conversations with all those clients, the clients that you dealt with, right?
MARK BALL: I dealt with the majority of them, yes.
MR. WATERS: All right. I want to show you what's been marked as Exhibit 314, and just real quick, go through and just -- you don't have to go through anything more, but just list the names of people that you had to deal with personally over what he had done.
MARK BALL: Well, I was involved with the one for Barrett Boulware with Ronnie.
MR. WATERS: All right. Let's talk about Barrett for a second. That was one of his close friends, right?
MARK BALL: He was.
MR. WATERS: And can you describe the money that he stole from Barrett?
MARK BALL: Barrett had had a fire on a piece of property that he had that burned down the house, and there were proceeds for cleaning up, and then there were proceeds for various and sundry things that were associated as well as the structure. And we started looking at it and figured out that $75,000 had been stolen, and then later on that it was an additional amount that never went through there.
MR. WATERS: How much was that additional amount?
MARK BALL: 279,000 according to this exhibit number.
MR. WATERS: And that was a close friend of his, correct, to your understanding?
MARK BALL: I would say that was one of his closest friends.
MR. WATERS: One of his closest friends.
MARK BALL: That's who he ended up getting Moselle from.
MR. WATERS: And when he stole that $75,000 from Barrett Boulware, Barrett was sick and needed that money to put his wife up in a hotel near the hospital he was at, didn't he?
MARK BALL: And Barrett was dying of colon cancer, yes.
MR. WATERS: And needed that money and Alex stole it anyway, right?
MARK BALL: I assume he needed the money.
MR. WATERS: All right. Keep going. Again, just --
MARK BALL: The next one down is the estate of Jacob Hershberger, and at first --
MR. WATERS: We don't need to get into each one, but that's one of them that you had to deal with?
MARK BALL: That's one that I just dealt with two weeks ago, and we're still straightening it out.
MR. WATERS: But you had -- the firm had to straighten it out and deal with the money because he took it, correct?
MARK BALL: We are now -- we're in the process of it.
MR. WATERS: After talking with the clients and everybody else involved, correct?
MARK BALL: Correct.
MR. WATERS: All right. Go on to the next one, please.
MARK BALL: You want me to give the names or --
MR. WATERS: Yeah, just give the names.
MARK BALL: Christopher Anderson I dealt with. Deon Martin and his family I dealt with.
MR. WATERS: All right, let me slow you down. So Christopher Anderson, you said that's somebody you had to talk to yourself?
MARK BALL: Yes, sir.
MR. WATERS: And y'all had to -- the firm had to pay money for what he did, correct?
MARK BALL: Yes, sir.
MR. WATERS: Deon Martin was someone you talked to yourself?
MARK BALL: I didn't and --
MR. WATERS: Horribly injured in an accident?
MARK BALL: He had a brain injury, correct.
MR. WATERS: And had a brain injury.
MARK BALL: Yes, sir.
MR. WATERS: And had you talked to him about the defendant lying to him with his brain injury, correct?
MARK BALL: And his parents.
MR. WATERS: And his parents, and taking his money, correct?
MARK BALL: Correct.
MR. WATERS: All right. Keep going.
MARK BALL: Elease Mallory.
MR. WATERS: Elease Mallory, and she had a relative who died, correct?
MARK BALL: She did, and I had represented her --
MR. WATERS: Very sweet old lady. Have you met her?
MARK BALL: Well, Elease --
MR. WATERS: That's who I mean.
MARK BALL: She's not really --
MR. WATERS: I'm sorry. The person that you dealt with, the personal representative.
MARK BALL: And then --
MR. WATERS: Is she a very sweet nice lady, the PR in that case?
MARK BALL: Yeah. All -- I haven't had a single one of these clients that weren't nice people.
MR. WATERS: Very nice people.
MARK BALL: Super nice people.
MR. WATERS: And he took advantage of each of them and lied to them, correct?
MARK BALL: Yes, sir.
MR. WATERS: Tell me some more names.
MARK BALL: The Risher case, I wasn't involved in it. Johnny Bush, I dealt with him. I talked with J.J. Jinks.
MR. WATERS: To your knowledge, Johnny Bush considered himself a friend of Alex Murdaugh?
MARK BALL: I don't know whether they were friends, but they were good a acquaintances. Johnny was a little bit different. He overcharged him on -- or gave him the impression that the $95,000 was for expenses, and it was not.
MR. WATERS: Correct. So, he lied and told him there were expenses that had to be paid, and instead Alex Murdaugh stole that money from his good acquaintance, Johnny Bush, correct?
MARK BALL: That's correct.
MR. WATERS: Keep going if you would, please.
MARK BALL: J.J. Jinks. He -- I talked with J.J. but I didn't deal with the paying him back part of it.
MR. WATERS: But y'all -- the firm still had to pay him back for the lies that Alex Murdaugh told, correct, for the theft?
MARK BALL: Correct.
MR. WATERS: Keep going if you would, please.
MARK BALL: The Cristiani matter is still ongoing.
MR. WATERS: All right. Keep going if you would, please.
MARK BALL: And then Randy Drawdy, that matter is over. Tommy Moore, I've dealt with him, and his money is back in trust where it's supposed to be.
MR. WATERS: All right, and Tommy Moore was a highway patrolman that got injured in the line of duty, correct?
MARK BALL: He was.
MR. WATERS: And Alex lied to him took his money, correct?
MARK BALL: Correct. This is not all of them either.
MR. WATERS: But that's the ones for now, correct? That's the ones that are on that list that's been admitted into evidence here, correct?
MARK BALL: Correct, but there's a good bit many more than this.
MR. WATERS: Are you aware in your conversations with the defendant that back around the time of the recession, that he had gotten into some land deals that had gotten into some financial issues?
MARK BALL: I think it was squeezing him, yes.
MR. WATERS: And then not long after that he had some big cases, such as the Arthur Badger case and the Pinckney/UPS case, and the Plyler case, in which he got a large amount of fees for very large recoveries, correct?
MARK BALL: Badger was the UPS, Pinckney was the tire case, but, yeah, he got very big fees.
MR. WATERS: And you thought that with all of those fees that you knew he'd gotten because he's your partner and you get to see the books -- you're the treasurer of the firm, or have been for an extended period. Is that correct?
MARK BALL: The old firm, yes.
MR. WATERS: And you thought that the money that he got, legitimately got from those cases had solved those problems because it was a lot, wasn't it?
MARK BALL: I think I, along with everybody else, thought that he was totally out of any debt to speak of.
MR. WATERS: But on top -- but you've come to find out on top of the fees that he got, he also stole millions from those clients, correct?
MARK BALL: Yes, sir.
MR. WATERS: There wasn't enough for him, was it?
MARK BALL: Clearly not.
MR. WATERS: I'm almost done. Going back to that scene that you went to, you didn't see any blood on Alex Murdaugh that night, did you?
MARK BALL: No, sir.
MR. WATERS: And when you went back the next day, you went back because y'all had attempted to call -- y'all had called the coroner to get the names, and he had given you the names of some companies that their job is to come out and help clean up scenes like this, correct?
MARK BALL: That's correct.
MR. WATERS: And y'all had called them but nobody called back, and you just felt like you had to do something, so you went to the scene. Is that right?
MARK BALL: Well, we were trying to also see what we could find out, if there was anything that we could do to lend assistance. I mean, this was something that was -- I mean, everything stopped.
MR. WATERS: Everything stopped.
MARK BALL: The whole world did.
MR. WATERS: And being a friend like people would be and just trying to do whatever you could, correct?
MARK BALL: Friend and, you know, we're lawyers. We, you know, we try to figure out what happened to things.
MR. WATERS: And you went in that feed room and observed the things that you saw.
MARK BALL: I did.
MR. WATERS: And you also ended up getting blood on your sleeves, correct?
MARK BALL: I did. I didn't know --
MR. WATERS: Up high, correct?
MARK BALL: On my shoulder areas, and on my pants.
MR. WATERS: I asked you a little bit about the defendant's cell phone use. Was it like him to have very short phone calls, or was he one to talk for awhile?
MARK BALL: I mean, he would cut you off with one phone call coming in on top of another one. He would call you about something and say, oh, I'll call you back, and click it off and, you know --
MR. WATERS: But he would start talking about something, right?
MARK BALL: Yeah, but, I mean, he would -- it was regular.
MR. WATERS: It was regular. He would typically talk for more than a minute, though.
MARK BALL: I mean --
MR. WATERS: You've said that, correct?
MARK BALL: I would assume so. To most people, a minute is not much of a conversation.
MR. WATERS: It's not much of a conversation just for a minute, is it?
MARK BALL: No.
MR. WATERS: The night of the murders, did you see a golf cart up at the Moselle residence?
MARK BALL: I saw one in front of the house.
MR. WATERS: In front of the house?
MARK BALL: Yeah. If you drove up to the driveway, it was over to the left.
MR. WATERS: It was parked in front of the house?
MARK BALL: It was parked off to the left side of the house.
MR. WATERS: Going back to September and y'all find out about the Faris fees, and y'all find out about fake Forge, and y'all have a meeting of the partners without Alex there and without Randy there, correct?
MARK BALL: Well, first of all, on the 2nd, which was a Thursday --
MR. WATERS: Right.
MARK BALL: -- when the stuff with Forge came up and we started looking down, when I made the phone call to Tommy Moore and we -- the first thing Jeannie did was start grabbing our check. All we could see was our end of it, so if a check was written off of our trust account or our operating account -- but these were mostly trust accounts. If it was written off the trust account, we could get a copy of our check. We didn't know where it had gone from there, and we could see the disbursement sheets, and we could tell where they were deposited by looking at the back of the checks, which you don't normally do. I mean, it's just not -- and when you started seeing commonality to it -- and then the Moore thing was concrete. I mean, there was just no way -- that money couldn't have been written out because it was being held. He had an ongoing workers' comp claim. That was a statutory lien. You couldn't give him the money.
MR. WATERS: The bottom line is, without rehashing the whole story for the jury again, y'all knew he'd been stealing at that point.
MARK BALL: That's when we found out, and then I met them.
MR. WATERS: Didn't know how much. In fact, you found out a whole lot later, right?
MARK BALL: A whole lot. We had about six at the time. I met with our president that night and Ronnie Crosby and set up a meeting for the next morning, and we met. And then Randy was tied up and then came, and at that point it was unanimous, and then Randy and Danny went and talked to him.
MR. WATERS: All right, and then when confronted --
MARK BALL: He admitted it.
MR. WATERS: -- with that -- and he was forced to resign. Is that correct? Or y'all terminated him?
MARK BALL: Well, he could either resign or be terminated, but it was a 30 second decision.
MR. WATERS: And what day was that when that happened?
MARK BALL: That was Friday.
MR. WATERS: What day? Do you remember?
MARK BALL: It would have been September the 3rd.
MR. WATERS: 3rd?
MARK BALL: And then we immediately started into all of the things you have to do when you found out that a lawyer has been stealing from the firm, which has been an absolute tee total pure hell since then.
MR. WATERS: So, everything was coming home to roost. The storm was arriving again for Alex on September 3rd when y'all confronted him. Is that correct?
MARK BALL: Yes, sir. I mean, it was over.
MR. WATERS: And then on September 4th, what happened? What did you hear about?
MARK BALL: I had spoken to Mr. Griffin just to let him know that we had terminated him. He already knew. And about 11:30 or 12:00, whatever time it was, I was on a tractor, and he called me and said you're not going to believe what happened, and I thought -- my first response was don't tell me that jackass killed himself.
MR. WATERS: Right.
MARK BALL: And he said no. Somebody shot him, and I just said I don't believe that. That's bullshit.
MR. WATERS: You don't believe that. A lot of people thought right away oh my gosh, the real killers are back, correct? The chickens were home to roost again for Alex, and all of a sudden he's a victim again, correct?
MR. GRIFFIN: Objection, Your Honor, as to what other people think.
JUDGE NEWMAN: The objection is overruled.
MARK BALL: I went to the scene. I went straight to the scene, but I didn't believe it.
MR. WATERS: You didn't believe it.
MARK BALL: No.
MR. WATERS: Because you have training as a lawyer, right?
MARK BALL: I don't know whether it was intuition, training, whatever. I just didn't believe it.
MR. WATERS: And what did you see at the scene that confirmed that this time --
MARK BALL: I got out --
MR. WATERS: -- when it didn't work?
MARK BALL: -- and Danny and Ronnie were there standing there, and I said I don't buy it, and we walked up towards the car, and I think I said it's got run flat tires and the tire is not flat. Before we got to it, Ronnie said it doesn't even have a spare, and then when we got up to it, you could see it at 9:00 where somebody had stabbed the tire, and we hung around there. And then when SLED showed up. I think it was actually David Owen showed up, or Ryan Kelly showed up, one of them, and that's when we told them we had fired him the day before and what had happened. We were in consultation with a lawyer we had to hire on Friday to figure out what to do and how to do it, and when this happened, we thought they needed to know.
MR. WATERS: And you were told that Alex claimed at the scene that he was shot by some unknown assailant, correct?
MARK BALL: That was the story.
MR. WATERS: But you knew this scene had been manufactured by Alex, correct, when you arrived there?
MARK BALL: I didn't know that. I just -- I suspected it. It just didn't look like -- I mean, it was a shiny Mercedes black car with no holes in it, a single shot. The back hatch isn't open. There's no -- nothing. It just doesn't look right.
MR. WATERS: And just when accountability is arriving again, the defendant manufacturers himself being a victim, correct?
MARK BALL: That's what it turned out to be.
MR. WATERS: Thank you, Mr. Ball.
JUDGE NEWMAN: Redirect?
MR. GRIFFIN: Briefly, Your Honor.
REDIRECT EXAMINATION
BY MR. GRIFFIN:
MR. GRIFFIN: I promise, briefly. Mr. Ball, to your knowledge, has the law firm, PMPED, repaid all of the money to the clients that's owed, as well as the insurance company have pitched in?
MARK BALL: To this point we still have -- we're holding some money as of a week -- two weeks ago, and in one of the matters we're still -- we're trying to get that money returned. We're having to go through a PR.
MR. GRIFFIN: And the list of names that you read off, those folks, if they're entitled to the money, now they have received it. Is that right?
MARK BALL: The people on that list have, yes, and there's plenty -- a bunch more that have as well.
MR. GRIFFIN: And the law firm is currently out a lot of money. Is that correct?
MARK BALL: We are.
MR. GRIFFIN: As a result of Alex --
MARK BALL: Well, the law firm and the partners in the law firm.
MR. GRIFFIN: Yeah.
MARK BALL: We've had to pony it out of our pocket.
MR. GRIFFIN: You personally have had to pony up.
MARK BALL: Yes, sir, along with my partners.
MR. GRIFFIN: And when Alex was -- resigned or terminated in September, he had some cash flow coming into the firm that the firm was able to keep and use that to pay some of the clients back.
MARK BALL: No, sir. All of our funds -- it doesn't matter what I earn. Until it's declared at the end of year, it's law firm money.
MR. GRIFFIN: I understand that. So, law firm money earned off Alex's cases, that was the firm money when he left. We're talking a couple of million dollars?
MARK BALL: First of all, all the cases are owned by the law firm. They're not Mark's cases, they're not Alex's cases, they're law firm cases. Cases that Alex was working on generated monies, and we internally decided how we -- a formula that we were going to use because people had to complete those cases, and we've allocated much, much more than -- ordinarily our expenses are taken out in a different way, but we allocated a bunch of money to paying those, yes.
MR. GRIFFIN: I understand, but the income from those cases is north of 2 million, correct?
MARK BALL: Yes, sir.
MR. GRIFFIN: And your firm and Jeannie Seckinger and others have cooperated with SLED and the Attorney General's Office in their investigation of Alex's misdeeds in relation to those client matters, have you not?
MARK BALL: We have.
MR. GRIFFIN: And as a result of -- I mean, you're aware that Alex has ninety-plus pending charges against him for financial -- the stuff you just testified about, correct?
MARK BALL: Yes, sir.
MR. GRIFFIN: And you've been subpoenaed here today to testify in the murder case, correct?
MARK BALL: I've been subpoenaed since this trial started.
MR. GRIFFIN: And you know this is a murder case.
MARK BALL: Yes, sir.
MR. GRIFFIN: Now, immediately after the murder of Maggie and Paul -- and you've talked about Alex's demeanor -- did he come to work? Was he able to work on cases?
MARK BALL: No, sir. He came -- he was out for awhile. He -- I think he went to his in-laws and stayed. He didn't -- after the funeral, the funeral was either Friday or Saturday, I can't remember, and then Randolph's was -- Randolph died on Thursday after this, and then Randolph's was on Sunday, and Alex sort of -- he was staying between Randy, John Marvin, and whoever else, his mother's house. I think he went to his in-laws. I know he went down to visit with his brother-in-law and sister-in-law.
MR. GRIFFIN: Sure, and --
MARK BALL: But, no, he was not -- there was a period of time he wasn't doing anything. He might come by and he would be in his office generally looking at sympathy notes.
MR. GRIFFIN: And from your observation, was he in any frame of mind to do any productive legal work the month of June?
MARK BALL: No.
MR. GRIFFIN: The month of July?
MARK BALL: We sat down and talked about it as partners and -- not with Alex -- about what we were going to do because there's deadlines and things that have to be done, and so we were trying to figure out how we were going to delicately kind of start stepping in on some of his cases and making sure things was being done according to what needed to be.
MR. GRIFFIN: And I think you testified about how the firm -- partners in the firm, lawyers in the firm were reaching out and using your resources to try to find out perhaps who played a role in killing Maggie and Paul.
MARK BALL: We absolutely were.
MR. GRIFFIN: And -- but were you careful not to go out and do the investigation yourself and just relay the information back to SLED?
MARK BALL: Right. I mean, we weren't trying to be private eyes or any of that. We were just trying to see -- and we relayed -- I relayed numerous things to the various officers, and I would preface it by I don't know whether this means anything, but you never know. I mean --
MR. GRIFFIN: To your knowledge, was information being relayed through Alex's attorneys to pass on as well?
MARK BALL: Well, I know I dealt with you on various things up until the stealing.
MR. GRIFFIN: Sure, and to your knowledge, was Alex consenting and cooperating with SLED in their investigation?
MARK BALL: As far as I know, yes. I mean, I wasn't with him during those interviews or anything else, but as far as I knew he was, and I would ask him, you know, where do we stand? Have you heard anything? You know --
MR. GRIFFIN: And were you aware that Alex and Buster put up a reward?
MARK BALL: I was.
MR. GRIFFIN: And are you also aware that when Paul was criminally charged in the boating case, Alex came under criticism for interfering in the investigation? Do you remember that?
MARK BALL: I was.
MR. GRIFFIN: And, in fact, there's been some pretty public allegations about that, about Alex, that were -- surfaced before Maggie and Paul had been murdered.
MARK BALL: Absolutely. I mean, they were criticizing him for advising people of stuff, but I'm a lawyer. I'm a parent, daddy. If one of my kids has a problem and gets accused of something or one of my friend's kids, I'm going to put my lawyer hat on and advise them to be quiet until their parents get there and get counsel if I think it's a serious matter.
MR. GRIFFIN: Sure. You were asked about Alex's cell phone use and, and whether he would take the kennels without it. Have you ever been to the kennels with Alex?
MARK BALL: Yeah.
MR. GRIFFIN: Have you been around the property of Moselle with Alex?
MARK BALL: I have, not a whole lot. I mean, as time went on, you know, our families got older and you just -- when you don't have children, it's -- you're doing a lot more things together on the weekends and stuff. Once your children get older and they're in college and he was going to Wofford and different places where Buster was, and, you know, your interests are different as well, but, yeah, I would occasionally. Or if he was building something, he might ask me what I thought about it or show me something, and I saw his duck pond and, you know, rode around the property several times.
MR. GRIFFIN: Was cell phone coverage spotty down at the shed and kennels?
MARK BALL: It can be. It varies. I mean, it can be. I don't remember specifically where and what, you know. Out where I live, if I go in my house with a metal roof -- this morning somebody was trying to talk to me and I had to walk out on the porch. Other days I can talk just fine in my house. I live 8 miles, 9 miles from where this place is, and I don't whether it's a metal roof or whether I'm just at the end of where a cell tower is, but out in my area, which is Rum Gully, it can be spotty.
MR. GRIFFIN: And you mentioned about spending time at Moselle and -- when kids were younger. Did -- before Alex got Moselle, you had a farm.
MARK BALL: I do.
MR. GRIFFIN: And would Alex bring the boys over to hunt on your property?
MARK BALL: Mostly Paul.
MR. GRIFFIN: Mostly Paul.
MARK BALL: Yeah. I mean, Buster would come some, but Buster was older, and then obviously when Buster started college he wasn't around as much, but Paul was a very avid hunter and was over either my place or Ronnie's place a lot.
MR. GRIFFIN: And he and Alex were together a lot doing that?
MARK BALL: Paul?
MR. GRIFFIN: He and Alex -- I mean, excuse, he and Paul -- were Alex and Paul together a lot?
MARK BALL: Yeah, and Paul was with his grandfather a lot.
MR. GRIFFIN: And I think you mentioned that Paul would leave stuff over there.
MARK BALL: All three of them would. You know, they would just -- they would leave a gun, they would leave a coat, they would leave a flashlight, maybe all three, and it was just sort of a running joke that they -- you had to kind of go around and gather up their stuff after they left, and that was just them.
MR. GRIFFIN: And do you remember one time Paul left a gun over there for a couple of months?
MARK BALL: He did, and I -- Alex left one one time, I believe, and I cleaned it and put it up, and he started asking around where his gun was, and, you know, we just sort of played with him a little bit and then gave it back to him.
MR. GRIFFIN: Right. I think you testified, moving to September 4th, you had gotten word about a shooting involving Alex, and I think your words were that jackass had killed himself.
MARK BALL: That was what I thought immediately.
MR. GRIFFIN: And why did you think that?
MARK BALL: Because all that had gone on. We'd terminated him, or he'd resigned the day before. This financial stuff was starting to come out, and, you know, I thought -- you know, he'd lost two family members and now he's got no job. It seemed feasible. I mean, I had been concerned about him, his mental health from the time of the murders up until then. In fact, I had suggested that he go see somebody for grief counseling. I mean, we were all grieving their loss and, you know, it's one of those deals that you just -- you can tell when somebody is not hitting on all cylinders. And he obviously was -- I would come by his office and he would be crying, I mean, or I would ask him something. I remember asking him one time when he was going through his -- he had a stack of sympathy cards and he said should I send them all back a note? And I said Alex, people don't send you sympathy cards to, you know, get a note back from you. There's no way in the world you can do that.
MR. GRIFFIN: When --
MARK BALL: He said he missed them.
MR. GRIFFIN: When he was terminated from the firm and you were concerned about perhaps what he may do, did you ever think maybe he'll go kill a family member? Did that ever cross your mind?
MARK BALL: Are you talking about when we terminated him?
MR. GRIFFIN: Yes, sir.
MARK BALL: By then Maggie and Paul had been killed --
MR. GRIFFIN: Well, he had family out there.
MARK BALL: He did. I never thought of any of that. Listen, when September the 2nd hit, it changed everything that I knew about Alex. I would have never believed that a guy that, you know, that was like family would have ever stolen from me, would have stolen from his family, would have stolen from his clients, or any of that, and so immediately you're -- you've got this rage, this emotion that you've got. And then on the 3rd we go through this whole ordeal of the termination, and then the 4th it hits and you're like, you know, did the jackass kill himself because of anything else? And then as time progressed on and you see the scope of it, I mean, I don't know the guy that -- after September the 3rd and leading out, I don't know who that guy is. I mean, that's not Alex that I knew, and Alex that I loved, and the Alex that all of us loved. You know, did he have imperfections? You bet. Did he do things that aggravated the hell out of me? You bet, but you don't -- you don't kick your brother out the door because, you know, they snore at night or, you know, they've done things that aggravate you. You get past it. But when they do things that are criminal, and they do things that affect not only him -- but he's torn down an entire legacy, a law firm. I've spent thirty-four years, or thirty-three years, I guess, in this one place. It's the only law firm that I've ever worked at. I put everything in it. It's all my children know, my family has known. It's gone. We had to change the name, we've had to do all of these things because of his acts on this financial stuff, and when it comes to that, I'm mad as hell, I mean. You just don't know how mad I am. But, on the other hand, I'm not saying that because he did that, he's done what he's accused of, and so that's --
MR. GRIFFIN: I understand.
MARK BALL: -- that's sort of the bottom line of it is his actions that have -- I mean, he was doing that way back, but we never knew it.
MR. GRIFFIN: Sure.
MARK BALL: And when we found out about it, it makes you doubt everything, and it's just human nature, but I don't have one shred of anything. All I can do is just point to what I saw.
MR. GRIFFIN: And you pointed to the roadside shooting and what you saw, and you thought that jackass tried to kill himself.
MARK BALL: Absolutely, and I may not have said jackass, but that's about as non-church as I want to get.
MR. GRIFFIN: And logically to you, it made sense why he would want to kill himself in that moment.
MARK BALL: Sure. I mean, he lost -- as far as I was concerned, he'd lost everything. He'd lost his job and he'd lost -- forget the job, forget the money, forget what's going to happen to him. He lost his wife and his child, and --
MR. GRIFFIN: Are you aware that he had 12 million dollars of life insurance?
MARK BALL: I didn't know what he had. I assumed he had some life insurance, but no. I mean, I didn't -- I never had that conversation with him and I -- quite frankly, I would have to see it to really believe it.
MR. GRIFFIN: Thank you. That's all of the questions I have.
JUDGE NEWMAN: Recross?
RECROSS-EXAMINATION
BY MR. WATERS:
MR. WATERS: I think you just said that what you know now about this man who'd been your partner and friend for thirty-four years causes you to question everything you thought you knew about him. Isn't that right?
MARK BALL: It does.
MR. WATERS: You were asked about all of those clients that had to be repaid money, and none that money came from him, did it?
MARK BALL: No, sir.
MR. WATERS: Y'all had to pay that money, right?
MARK BALL: We did.
MR. WATERS: How much?
MARK BALL: I would say at this point probably north of 10 or 11 million dollars. Now, insurance paid for some of that, I mean, but there's been a substantial chunk of that that came out of our pocket.
MR. WATERS: You were asked about Alex having some cases that were coming in, but you explained, though, that this is June, and that disbursement is not going to come to him until December. He's not going to be able to get that money until December, correct, any of what he's entitled to, which isn't all of it, correct, because it belongs to the firm?
MARK BALL: Right. Everything belongs to the firm until the end of the year when you meet, and then you divide up money and --
MR. WATERS: And that's why he stole the Faris fees in March: because he needed the money right then.
MARK BALL: I would assume so. I mean, the money was gone, and it was paid in three checks.
MR. WATERS: You said that in the month after the murders, he wasn't really working on cases, but he sure managed to arrange to cover those Faris fees to pay them back so that everyone would forget about it, didn't he? Or all of it. He managed to do that, didn't he?
MARK BALL: Yeah. Well, part of it. I mean, I think there was $192,000 that --
MR. WATERS: That he convinced Chris Wilson to cover for him.
MARK BALL: Convinced or Chris had to cover, one of the two.
MR. WATERS: You were asked about him cooperating with law enforcement in the murders, but he never told law enforcement that he was down at the kennels just minutes with the victims before they died. He never told law enforcement that, did he?
MR. GRIFFIN: Objection. Foundation.
MR. WATERS: I think it's responsive to redirect, Your Honor.
JUDGE NEWMAN: You can testify if you know.
MARK BALL: I don't know what he told law enforcement other than what's been out there in the public.
MR. WATERS: Well, let me ask you this. He denied to you three times that he ever went to those kennels, did he not?
MARK BALL: He did.
MR. WATERS: His buddy, friend, law partner of thirty-four years told you three times: I was never there.
MARK BALL: That's correct.
MR. WATERS: And you know now that's a lie.
MARK BALL: When I saw the video a month or so ago.
MR. WATERS: Thank you, Mr. Ball.
JUDGE NEWMAN: You may step down.
(The witness exited the stand.)