Ryan Kelly — Cross/Redirect/Recross (Recall, Continued)
431 linesFRIDAY, FEBRUARY 17, 2023
(Court resumed at 9:35 a.m.)
JUDGE NEWMAN: Good morning. Are we ready to proceed?
MR. WATERS: One brief housekeeping matter. We put in a disc yesterday, which for the record is State's 552. I provided the court reporter one that was a short-end one. We actually put in the full one, so I'm going to replace 552 with the full disc with consent of defense counsel.
MR. HARPOOTLIAN: We consent, Your Honor.
JUDGE NEWMAN: Very well.
MR. WATERS: And with that, we are ready to proceed, Your Honor.
MR. HARPOOTLIAN: Defense is ready to proceed.
JUDGE NEWMAN: Okay. Bring in the jury.
(The jury returned to the courtroom.)
COURT BAILIFF: The jury is present, sir.
JUDGE NEWMAN: Good morning.
(The jury responded good morning.)
JUDGE NEWMAN: All right. Day number twenty. Cross-examination. You may proceed.
MR. HARPOOTLIAN: May it please the Court, Your Honor? Good morning, ladies and gentlemen.
(The jury responded good morning.)
The witness, RYAN KELLY, remained under oath and continued testifying as follows:
CROSS-EXAMINATION
BY MR. HARPOOTLIAN:
MR. HARPOOTLIAN: So, let's see if we can do this quickly. Is that okay with you?
RYAN KELLY: Yes, sir.
MR. HARPOOTLIAN: It is Friday. Monday is a holiday, so let's see if we can't get through this. You're a -- is it senior special agent?
RYAN KELLY: Yes, sir.
MR. HARPOOTLIAN: Okay, and you investigated -- your charge was investigating the so-called roadside shooting, correct?
RYAN KELLY: Correct.
MR. HARPOOTLIAN: And as part of that you -- after Alex was airlifted to Savannah Hospital, correct?
RYAN KELLY: Yes.
MR. HARPOOTLIAN: Okay, and did you go see him there?
RYAN KELLY: Yes.
MR. HARPOOTLIAN: And did you talk to the doctors about his conditions?
RYAN KELLY: We made contact with medical staff there. I don't know if I specifically spoke to a particular doctor, but we made contact with the medical staff that were providing treatment.
MR. HARPOOTLIAN: So, did the medical staff tell you he had a shallow sort of trough wound in the back of his head apparently caused by a bullet? Did they tell you that?
RYAN KELLY: They did not.
MR. HARPOOTLIAN: Did they tell you he had a fractured skull?
RYAN KELLY: They did not.
MR. HARPOOTLIAN: Did you look at his medical -- did you subpoena -- have you subpoenaed his medical records?
RYAN KELLY: We have, but at the time of my arrival, the tests were ongoing and that -- those documents weren't readily available to me.
MR. HARPOOTLIAN: But you've looked at them since then.
RYAN KELLY: Since then.
MR. HARPOOTLIAN: So, you would agree with me he had a fractured skull, a wound -- a trough wound to the back of his head?
RYAN KELLY: I would agree that's what the medical records state.
MR. HARPOOTLIAN: Let's me see if you can identify this.
RYAN KELLY: These appear to be a portion of Mr. Murdaugh's medical records.
MR. HARPOOTLIAN: I understand it's a portion.
RYAN KELLY: Yes, sir.
MR. HARPOOTLIAN: But it's sort of the summarizing portion, is it not?
RYAN KELLY: Yes, sir, it is.
MR. HARPOOTLIAN: Okay.
MR. HARPOOTLIAN: I think you furnished these to us. Do you have any objection?
MR. WATERS: Objection, Rule 801.
MR. HARPOOTLIAN: Well, let me ask you this question. Maybe it will make it easier. Who subpoenaed and got these records? Did SLED?
RYAN KELLY: Yes. At the time of the incident, we weren't -- they weren't discussing his medical condition with us. We were able to -- due to HIPAA, they weren't readily providing us access to his medical records or consultation with doctors. We had a general understanding based on what Mr. Murdaugh told us -- told deputies on the side of the road and based on what he stated on 911, that he'd been shot in the head. So when we arrived, we saw a subsequent injury --
MR. HARPOOTLIAN: Just let me ask -- let me cut to the chase here. Did y'all subpoena the medical records?
RYAN KELLY: Yes, we did.
MR. HARPOOTLIAN: Are these a portion of the medical records, the business records that you received from the hospital in Savannah, the Memorial Health?
RYAN KELLY: Yes, sir.
MR. HARPOOTLIAN: Okay.
MR. HARPOOTLIAN: Does that resolve that issue, business records?
MR. WATERS: May I see the exhibit, please, Mr. Harpootlian?
MR. HARPOOTLIAN: And for the record, Your Honor, we redacted any personal identifying matters --
MR. WATERS: With the redactions, no objection.
JUDGE NEWMAN: They're admitted without objection.
MR. HARPOOTLIAN: And that's number 124.
(MEDICAL RECORDS MARKED AS DEFENDANT'S EXHIBIT NUMBER 124 WERE RECEIVED INTO EVIDENCE.)
MR. HARPOOTLIAN: So let me have you, if this will refresh your memory, look at page 1, what the medical staff says are his injuries.
RYAN KELLY: Yes, sir.
MR. HARPOOTLIAN: Okay. Now, I could have you read that. Do you understand what this means?
RYAN KELLY: I have a general idea. Like I said, I'm not a doctor, I'm a SLED agent, so I have a general understanding of the terms on the page.
MR. HARPOOTLIAN: Did he have a -- does it indicate he had a furrow wound in his head?
RYAN KELLY: I'm not trying to play coy. It just says -- I mean, I can read it. If it says --
MR. HARPOOTLIAN: Okay. Let me publish part to you and see what you think: Left posterior parietal subdural hematoma with adjacent blood products. What do you think that means?
RYAN KELLY: I don't --
MR. HARPOOTLIAN: What is a subdural hematoma?
RYAN KELLY: Obviously it's a bleeding on the subdural part of his head, so it's --
MR. HARPOOTLIAN: So, it would be a brain bleed.
RYAN KELLY: Absolutely, yes.
MR. HARPOOTLIAN: It says: Linear left posterior parietal bone fracture. That would be a fractured skull.
RYAN KELLY: Yes.
MR. HARPOOTLIAN: Okay: Scalp laceration overlying the left parietal bone. That would be the furrow I'm talking about, right?
RYAN KELLY: If that's what you referred to. I'm not a doctor. I mean, furrow is, you know, it's -- I can only testify to what it states on the page.
MR. HARPOOTLIAN: Okay, and attending radiologist reviewed all of the images and agrees with the interpretation. So, a radiologist looked and saw a brain bleed, saw a subdural hematoma, saw a fractured skull, and issued or saw -- made findings consistent with a bullet wound to the head, did they not?
RYAN KELLY: The medical professionals reviewed his charts and his tests, they came to that opinion, and we refer to them as it relates to their findings.
MR. HARPOOTLIAN: I'm sorry, refer to them what?
RYAN KELLY: We refer to them as it relates to their findings.
MR. HARPOOTLIAN: Okay.
RYAN KELLY: If that's what they determined happened, we referred to them.
MR. HARPOOTLIAN: Okay. So, he had real injuries.
RYAN KELLY: There was a laceration on the back of his head that was consistent with a gunshot wound.
MR. HARPOOTLIAN: Fractured skull, subdural brain bleed, right?
RYAN KELLY: If that's what the records say, then yes.
MR. HARPOOTLIAN: Have you ever told anybody that -- specifically the -- Maggie's sister and her husband that Alex had been shot in the head? I mean, I can play it for you. You recorded it.
RYAN KELLY: Oh, absolutely. I mean, I'm not denying that I've done it. I don't remember it off the top of my head.
MR. HARPOOTLIAN: Okay. I just want to make sure you've told somebody that Alex got shot in the head.
RYAN KELLY: Yes. I've never questioned that Alex has been shot in the head.
MR. HARPOOTLIAN: Okay. I'm just trying to --
RYAN KELLY: Okay.
MR. HARPOOTLIAN: We're having a difficult time here communicating this morning, not quite understanding it.
RYAN KELLY: Yes, sir, it is.
MR. HARPOOTLIAN: But my simple question was, was he shot in the head, and I'm not sure until just now you said yes, he was shot in the head.
RYAN KELLY: I apologize. Yes, he was shot in the head.
MR. HARPOOTLIAN: So we agree on that, he was shot in the head.
RYAN KELLY: Yes.
MR. HARPOOTLIAN: And he was in intensive care for awhile and then he was let out relatively quickly. Is that right?
RYAN KELLY: Yes. I believe he was released on the 7th?
MR. HARPOOTLIAN: Okay, and I would like to show you Defense Exhibits 125 and 127.
MR. WATERS: No, objection Your Honor.
MR. HARPOOTLIAN: And are these -- let me show these to you so you can identify them. Are these photographs consistent with what you saw Alex Murdaugh at the hospital?
RYAN KELLY: No. The -- this first photograph was photographed by Hampton County EMS. So, prior to my arrival, this was taken. When I arrived in Savannah, Alex was not in this condition.
MR. HARPOOTLIAN: But you would represent that these -- these were --
RYAN KELLY: This image is something that I saw at the hospital. I didn't see this.
MR. HARPOOTLIAN: Okay. So, this was taken by who? Hampton County?
RYAN KELLY: I don't know who took the photo, but it was included with the Hampton County EMS records that we obtained.
MR. HARPOOTLIAN: Okay.
MR. HARPOOTLIAN: So, did I offer these?
MR. WATERS: No objection, Your Honor.
(PHOTO MARKED AS DEFENDANT'S EXHIBIT NUMBER 125 WAS RECEIVED INTO EVIDENCE.)
(PHOTO MARKED AS DEFENDANT'S EXHIBIT NUMBER 127 WAS RECEIVED INTO EVIDENCE.)
MR. HARPOOTLIAN: Okay. So, let's look at the --
MR. HARPOOTLIAN: Do I have to go to the ELMO or do you have these?
(Break in proceedings.)
MR. HARPOOTLIAN: Okay. So, this is the photo you indicated some other law enforcement agency took before he went to -- at the side of road, or is that -- or do you know?
RYAN KELLY: This photo was included in the records from Hampton County EMS that we obtained at the time that he provided the recorded statement inside the ambulance where he gave the detailed description of what happened to him --
MR. HARPOOTLIAN: Which we've listened to.
RYAN KELLY: Yes, yesterday. So, at some point his wound was treated and he was placed in the cervical collateral outside of my presence. I wasn't present when he was transported. I didn't meet with Mr. Murdaugh until I went to Savannah.
MR. HARPOOTLIAN: Okay.
MR. HARPOOTLIAN: Put the next picture on.
MR. HARPOOTLIAN: And who took this picture?
RYAN KELLY: This picture -- I did not take any pictures, so I believe it may have been -- it was Agent Rebecca Gregg, who was accompanying me to Savannah.
MR. HARPOOTLIAN: And is that an accurate depiction of what his skull looked like at the hospital?
RYAN KELLY: Correct.
MR. HARPOOTLIAN: And do you know notice blood there?
RYAN KELLY: Yes.
MR. HARPOOTLIAN: Okay.
MR. HARPOOTLIAN: Go ahead and go to the next one.
MR. HARPOOTLIAN: Now as I understand it, after he was released from the hospital, he went to detox in Atlanta.
RYAN KELLY: That's what y'all told us, yes.
MR. HARPOOTLIAN: I'm sorry?
RYAN KELLY: That's what y'all -- what's what you told me.
MR. HARPOOTLIAN: And we called you from a facility in Atlanta to give the statement we saw earlier, correct?
RYAN KELLY: You called me from a telephone. I don't know exactly your location. I wasn't there with you, so I don't know where you called me from.
MR. HARPOOTLIAN: You're telling me SLED can't tell where a phone is?
RYAN KELLY: Mr. Harpootlian --
MR. HARPOOTLIAN: I mean, if you're going to tell me that SLED can't tell us where a phone is --
JUDGE NEWMAN: Just a moment. You posed a question. You must give him an opportunity to answer.
MR. HARPOOTLIAN: I apologize.
RYAN KELLY: Mr. Harpootlian, you called me. I don't know what number you called me from --
MR. HARPOOTLIAN: My cell phone.
RYAN KELLY: Okay. So, you called my from your cell phone. I have that number, so it identified as yours, but I don't know where you were at. You told me that you were calling from Atlanta. I took you at your word, but I can't testify to where you were calling me from because I don't know.
MR. HARPOOTLIAN: Did you ever subpoena his detox records?
RYAN KELLY: We made an attempt, but we had issues with them honoring an out of state subpoena.
MR. HARPOOTLIAN: Well, I mean, you can go to a court in Georgia and make them honor it, or we could have given you consent. Did you ask us for consent?
RYAN KELLY: No consent was given.
MR. HARPOOTLIAN: No consent was asked for.
RYAN KELLY: No consent was asked, no consent was given, so --
MR. HARPOOTLIAN: Okay, but we represented on that call that he was in a detox facility before -- when we called you to set up the call in Atlanta that he was now -- and I think we've said on the recording that the doctors indicate he's coherent, he's been through the detox, which is pretty tough to process, and he was willing to talk to you once he was competent to do so. Isn't that's correct?
RYAN KELLY: That is the information related to me, yes.
MR. HARPOOTLIAN: Do you have any reason to doubt that?
RYAN KELLY: No, sir.
MR. HARPOOTLIAN: Okay, and so while he -- as soon as he came out of the initial stages of detox, you don't know this, but we went down -- we called the --
MR. WATERS: Objection to counsel's statement.
JUDGE NEWMAN: Mr. Harpootlian, you can't testify.
MR. HARPOOTLIAN: Who called who initially to set that call up?
RYAN KELLY: I called you on the day of September 7th to reach out to let you know that we had had some developments in the case, and I told you that we wanted to speak to Alex.
MR. HARPOOTLIAN: Okay.
RYAN KELLY: You told us that he was in rehab, or was en route to rehab, and we would try to make some arrangements. We had initially discussed agents traveling to whatever facility Mr. Murdaugh was in to meet with him in an attempt to get a statement. That meeting did not materialize. On the afternoon of the 13th, you called me from your cell phone to set up a telephone interview. Given the complexity of the case and the fluid movements of the investigation, we wanted to, you know, agree to that so we could get some type of -- at that point Mr. Murdaugh had -- obviously the story that he told us was not true, and we wanted to take that as an opportunity to try to make some sense out of the investigation given that you and Mr. Griffith (sic) were there saying he was ready to tell us really what happened.
MR. HARPOOTLIAN: So he, through his attorneys, reached out to you to give this recorded statement himself.
RYAN KELLY: On the 13th you called me, yes.
MR. HARPOOTLIAN: Right, and secondly, he admitted that he had stolen money, right?
RYAN KELLY: Yes.
MR. HARPOOTLIAN: He admitted drug use.
RYAN KELLY: Yes.
MR. HARPOOTLIAN: And he admitted that he lied, correct?
RYAN KELLY: Yes.
MR. HARPOOTLIAN: Okay, and as a result of that statement, he was charged with insurance fraud, conspiracy to commit insurance fraud, and filing a false police report. Is that correct?
RYAN KELLY: Yes, he was.
MR. HARPOOTLIAN: And by that time he had moved from the detox facility in Atlanta to a rehab facility in Orlando, correct?
RYAN KELLY: Correct.
MR. HARPOOTLIAN: You asked that he surrender himself and he did that, did he not?
RYAN KELLY: Yes, he did.
MR. HARPOOTLIAN: He had his son, Buster, drive him from Orlando to Hampton County, and I believe y'all met him and -- by prearrangement him and Buster at his mother's house.
RYAN KELLY: The agreement was for us to meet you and Mr. Griffith with Mr. Murdaugh, that no stops be taken from Orlando to Hampton. We encountered Mr. Murdaugh and Buster pulling into the driveway of the Almeda property, so outside of our agreement. So, Mr. Murdaugh was taken into custody as soon as he arrived at Almeda.
MR. HARPOOTLIAN: Well -- so, perhaps if we weren't going to Orlando, stopping to get his lawyers before he surrendered himself would have been a violation of our agreement?
RYAN KELLY: No. Our agreement was that Mr. Murdaugh was to go from Orlando directly to your custody. Buster -- I don't fault Buster. I don't think that he was doing anything that he thought was wrong. He was just listening to instructions. But, you know, we were supposed to meet him with you and he showed up at his mom's house, so he was placed under arrest at his mom's house.
MR. HARPOOTLIAN: Well, we showed up at mom's house as y'all were taking him away, right?
RYAN KELLY: After he was arrested, yes.
MR. HARPOOTLIAN: Right, but, I mean, we were there minutes after you arrested him, right?
RYAN KELLY: Yes, because they called you, so -- and I might have called you to tell him he was -- we were arresting him as well.
MR. HARPOOTLIAN: Right. He went to a bond hearing.
RYAN KELLY: Yes, he did.
MR. HARPOOTLIAN: And he was granted bond.
RYAN KELLY: Yes.
MR. HARPOOTLIAN: And one of the conditions of bond allowed him to go back to Orlando to rehab, right?
RYAN KELLY: Yes.
MR. HARPOOTLIAN: And he went back to Orlando to rehab.
RYAN KELLY: Yes.
MR. HARPOOTLIAN: Until he was indicted on the financial fraud charges.
RYAN KELLY: Yes.
MR. HARPOOTLIAN: And his cooperation, and when I say cooperation, the statements he made in -- I understand you were only investigating the roadside shooting, right?
RYAN KELLY: Correct.
MR. HARPOOTLIAN: So, you weren't investigating the murder. You weren't investigating -- I mean, I'm talking about Maggie and Paul's murders. You weren't investigating the financial crimes, only the roadside shooting, correct?
RYAN KELLY: Are you referring during my interviews, the three interviews with Mr. Murdaugh?
MR. HARPOOTLIAN: I'm sorry?
RYAN KELLY: Are you referring -- in the three interviews with Mr. Murdaugh, the first two interviews were conducted with him being considered the victim of a violent crime.
MR. HARPOOTLIAN: Right, and then --
RYAN KELLY: And then the third interview, you know, you set parameters as to -- as his attorney as to what information we would discuss --
MR. HARPOOTLIAN: No, no, no.
RYAN KELLY: -- on the call, so --
MR. HARPOOTLIAN: But he did -- when you asked questions about his bank accounts, he cooperated fully with you, right?
RYAN KELLY: After some give and take I think between you and I, he disclosed information, yes.
MR. HARPOOTLIAN: Right, and he admitted to you he had stolen money.
RYAN KELLY: Yeah. He confirmed that he'd stolen it because at that point we had been told by other parties he'd stolen money. And, you know, on the 7th we recovered Enterprise banking slips, so we know -- we knew we had documentation he had stolen money. He just confirmed it with his --
MR. HARPOOTLIAN: Did you know whether he knew? He was just coming out of detox. I mean, certainly many, many defendants would have never talked to you, correct?
MR. WATERS: Objection to the form, Your Honor.
JUDGE NEWMAN: The objection is sustained.
MR. HARPOOTLIAN: Did he have to talk to you?
RYAN KELLY: Some of the best confessions I've ever gotten were from a defense attorney. So, he spoke to me --
MR. HARPOOTLIAN: Not this defense attorney. Okay.
RYAN KELLY: Well, he still confessed on the call, so --
MR. HARPOOTLIAN: I mean, there are defense attorneys and defense attorneys, right? Okay. So, let me say this. As a result of some of the information you got, did you give that -- that statement that he gave you, did you give that to -- who was investigating the financial crime?
RYAN KELLY: That was a joint operation out of our office; there were several agents involved.
MR. HARPOOTLIAN: But no agent in charge like Mr. Owens?
RYAN KELLY: There was an agent, David Williams, Special Agent David Williams, myself, Special Agent Matt Wright. We've all had part in the financial investigations.
MR. HARPOOTLIAN: Okay, and as a result of his cooperation partially, in which you already knew, you're aware that he was indicted on ninety indictments of financial fraud which could result in life without parole for him, do you not?
RYAN KELLY: He was found to be --
MR. HARPOOTLIAN: If you would answer yes or no and then explain your answer. Was he indicted on ninety charges of financial fraud and -- for which he faces life without parole? Is that correct? Just yes or no.
MR. WATERS: Objection to relevance, Your Honor.
JUDGE NEWMAN: The objection is sustained.
MR. HARPOOTLIAN: I'm sorry, what was the objection?
JUDGE NEWMAN: There was an objection and I sustained the objection.
MR. HARPOOTLIAN: I'm sorry, Your Honor, I don't understand the grounds of the objection.
JUDGE NEWMAN: Mr. --
MR. WATERS: 401, Your Honor.
MR. HARPOOTLIAN: I'm sorry. I understand what 401 is. I don't know why it would apply to this.
JUDGE NEWMAN: The objection is sustained.
MR. HARPOOTLIAN: The information you got was voluntary about the financial piece of this, was voluntary by him? No one threatened him? No one coerced him? He has two lawyers sitting there, right?
RYAN KELLY: To the best of my knowledge, no one threatened him. I was not present with Mr. Murdaugh at the time of giving his statement. It was over the telephone. Based on what you've told us, no one threatened him.
MR. HARPOOTLIAN: No one held a gun to his head.
RYAN KELLY: I wasn't in the room. If you did, I can't speak to it.
MR. HARPOOTLIAN: Beg the Court's indulgence.
(Break in proceedings.)
MR. HARPOOTLIAN: Thank you, Agent. Appreciate it.
RYAN KELLY: Thank you.
JUDGE NEWMAN: Any redirect?
MR. WATERS: Briefly, Your Honor. May it please the Court?
REDIRECT EXAMINATION
BY MR. WATERS:
MR. WATERS: When you interviewed the defendant, Alex Murdaugh, on September the 4th, that was in the hospital. Is that right?
RYAN KELLY: Yes, it was.
MR. WATERS: Did he agree to speak to you?
RYAN KELLY: Yes, he did.
MR. WATERS: Did he respond appropriately?
MR. HARPOOTLIAN: Your Honor, I object. We've already dealt with this matter, and if we're going to go into this, we would like a Jackson v. Denno as to his competence to talk to him in the hospital.
JUDGE NEWMAN: Mr. --
MR. WATERS: He specifically cross-examined him on the injuries in the hospital that he had suffered, and I am just following up with the agent about the circumstances generally of his interaction with --
JUDGE NEWMAN: Ladies and gentlemen, we'll have you go to the jury room for a break. Please do not discuss the case.
(The jury left the courtroom.)
JUDGE NEWMAN: Be seated, please. What's the nature of the objection again, Mr. Harpootlian?
MR. HARPOOTLIAN: Your Honor, several bases. One, those were leading questions if you get past that. Secondly, we had an agreement, which he complied with on direct examination, to have him say what happened there in a summary fashion and not go into a quoting piece, even though we believe -- and if you look at these medical records, he's showing positive for barbiturates and opioids, many of which were administered by the hospital. Not -- we believe the doctors will say he was not competent to give a -- any sort of voluntary statement. And he was not advised his Miranda warnings, he wasn't in any way -- we don't -- obviously he wasn't in custody, but we believe that we're entitled to a hearing on competence to give a statement if he's going to go further on this, and to do so we're going to need the doctors from Savannah here to testify of what his condition was. So, perhaps we should adjourn this and come back on Tuesday or Wednesday of next week to finish it.
MR. WATERS: Your Honor, the sum total of my questions were specifically in response to the cross-examination. I was not going to ask him to go back to the -- to relate what he related to Agent Kelly, which again, they already agreed for us to do in summary fashion. It was simply going to be questions that he was not in custody, he was -- voluntarily agreed to talk, and his questions were subject matter appropriate, and he appeared to understand the questions. That was going to be the extent of it, and it was in direct response to their putting in the records and discussing the injuries that he -- are reflected in those records. That was the extent of my questioning, not to reiterate the summary to which, frankly, they had already agreed to allowing to do, which we did yesterday.
MR. HARPOOTLIAN: If that's all he's going to ask, I withdraw my objection.
JUDGE NEWMAN: All right, very good. Let's bring the jury in. And let's stand and stretch.
MR. HARPOOTLIAN: Your Honor.
JUDGE NEWMAN: Yes, sir.
MR. HARPOOTLIAN: That's what we're agreeing if that's all he's going to ask, but if that question leads to another question leads to another question --
(The jury returned to the courtroom.)
JUDGE NEWMAN: The objection is withdrawn. You may proceed.
MR. WATERS: Thank you, Your Honor. May it please the Court?
CONTINUED REDIRECT EXAMINATION
BY MR. WATERS:
MR. WATERS: All right, going back to the question that I asked, when you interviewed -- and I'm just asking these particular questions. When you interviewed the defendant on September 4th, that was the day of the roadside shooting, correct?
RYAN KELLY: Correct.
MR. WATERS: Did he voluntarily agree to talk to you?
RYAN KELLY: Yes.
MR. WATERS: Was he in custody in any way?
RYAN KELLY: He was not in custody.
MR. WATERS: Did he respond appropriately to your questions?
RYAN KELLY: He responded appropriately and consistently to the answers -- to my questions that were given on the 911 and on the -- to the Hampton County deputies.
MR. WATERS: Did he appear to understand your questions?
RYAN KELLY: Yes.
MR. WATERS: And did he respond appropriately to the subject matter of those questions?
RYAN KELLY: Yes.
MR. WATERS: When you interviewed him on September 6th, he was still in the hospital. Is that correct?
RYAN KELLY: Yes.
MR. WATERS: And at that time, did he voluntarily agree to talk to you?
RYAN KELLY: Yes.
MR. WATERS: Was he in custody at any point?
RYAN KELLY: He was not.
MR. WATERS: Did he respond appropriately to your questions?
RYAN KELLY: He did.
MR. WATERS: Did he appear to understand your questions?
RYAN KELLY: He understood the questions and, again, gave consistent responses to the interviews from September 4th, from the 911 call, and from the video from the ambulance.
MR. WATERS: All right, and his answers related appropriately to the subject matter of your questions.
RYAN KELLY: Yes, on the side of the road.
MR. WATERS: You were asked a little bit about the circumstances of the telephone interview on September 13, 2021, correct?
RYAN KELLY: Yes.
MR. WATERS: And did you want to do a telephone interview or did you want to speak to him in person?
RYAN KELLY: No. Our initial inquiry was to go to where he was at. We did not know his location. They took him out of state. Our intention was to go meet with them wherever they had him to conduct that interview. When those plans did not materialize, time was of the essence. When they called us and agreed to have the telephone interview, we made an investigative decision to agree to that and conduct the interview over the phone.
MR. WATERS: That time period between September 6th and 7th when all of the developments you testified to yesterday on the side of the road took place and September 13th, was SLED just sitting around doing nothing, or were y'all actively attempting to further question the defendant?
RYAN KELLY: We were absolutely actively -- and working the active investigation. We were actively attempting to make contact to have that interview and make that take place.
MR. WATERS: And it was not until September 13th that the defense agreed but only through a telephone interview. Is that correct?
RYAN KELLY: He contacted -- Mr. Harpootlian called me on the 13th and he said, hey, we have a short amount of time we can do this. Can we make it happen? So, we had to make it happen within about 30 minutes' notice. So, Agent Albayalde and I got to a place where we could conduct the interview, and the interview occurred.
MR. WATERS: And when y'all had that phone interview that the jury heard yesterday, at the beginning they put limitations on the subject matter of what could be discussed.
RYAN KELLY: Yes. They advised that they would only discuss the side of the road shooting, that Moselle -- the Moselle incident and the financial crimes were off limits.
MR. WATERS: Ultimately some financial information was discussed. Is that correct?
RYAN KELLY: That is correct.
MR. WATERS: But Moselle never was. Is that right?
RYAN KELLY: Correct.
MR. WATERS: You were asked about ultimately when he was taken into custody. Is that correct?
RYAN KELLY: Yes.
MR. WATERS: Do you remember roughly what date that was?
RYAN KELLY: I don't have the booking paperwork. I don't remember what -- the specific date. We took -- I took him into custody twice, so I don't know what date.
MR. WATERS: And that was after he had finished that rehab stint, is that correct, to your understanding?
RYAN KELLY: Yes. We took him in custody once out on the Almeda property. We also took him in custody a second time when we went to Orlando to extradite.
MR. WATERS: What you were just asked about by Mr. Harpootlian when he returned to South Carolina, that was the first time ever that he had been taken into custody. Is that correct?
RYAN KELLY: Yes.
MR. WATERS: And that was for charges related to the side of the road.
RYAN KELLY: Yes.
MR. WATERS: Court's indulgence, please.
(Break in proceedings.)
MR. WATERS: Thank you, Senior Special Agent Kelly. Nothing further.
RYAN KELLY: Thank you.
MR. HARPOOTLIAN: Just a couple of additional questions.
RECROSS-EXAMINATION
BY MR. HARPOOTLIAN:
MR. HARPOOTLIAN: That second time you took him into custody, do you know when that was?
RYAN KELLY: I don't have the exact date in front of me. I apologize.
MR. HARPOOTLIAN: If I told you October 16th, would that -- of 2021, would that seem appropriate to you?
RYAN KELLY: I believe it was in the month of October of 2021.
MR. HARPOOTLIAN: Okay, and tell this jury. How long had he been out of jail since October 16th of 2021? I mean, did he make bond?
RYAN KELLY: I don't believe so, no.
MR. HARPOOTLIAN: So, he's been in jail since October 16th --
MR. WATERS: Objection. 401, Your Honor.
JUDGE NEWMAN: The objection is sustained.
MR. HARPOOTLIAN: What opportunity has he had since October 16th of 2021 to manipulate witnesses, to manipulate evidence, to manipulate anything in this case? What opportunity --
MR. WATERS: Objection.
MR. HARPOOTLIAN: Go ahead.
JUDGE NEWMAN: Just a moment. There's an objection.
MR. HARPOOTLIAN: I'm sorry, what's this objection?
MR. WATERS: Objection to 401, Your Honor.
JUDGE NEWMAN: And response?
MR. HARPOOTLIAN: Well, Your Honor, no question he's been in jail since October --
JUDGE NEWMAN: No, sir. Your legal response to the question. 401 is the objection, relevance, and your response?
MR. HARPOOTLIAN: My response is that they have him -- they're trying to portray him as this manipulative --
MR. WATERS: Your Honor --
MR. HARPOOTLIAN: -- person, and he's not got the ability to manipulate anything after October 16th.
JUDGE NEWMAN: The objection is sustained.
MR. HARPOOTLIAN: As not relevant?
JUDGE NEWMAN: Yes, sir, and inappropriate argument to the jury.
MR. HARPOOTLIAN: I'm sorry, Your Honor.
MR. HARPOOTLIAN: Now, did you tell anyone in his family the reason you wanted to see him while he was in rehab was to show him a picture of a truck?
RYAN KELLY: The conversations about the picture of the truck, we obtained the picture of the truck on or around --
MR. HARPOOTLIAN: Excuse me. If you would just answer yes or no, and then you can explain your answer. I'm -- we're going to go down this trail and if you say no, then I'm done. If you say yes, then I'm going to ask you when you did it and we don't have to go through this back and forth for the next 10 minutes. Did you tell anybody in his family you wanted to see him in rehab just to show him a picture, among other things, just to show him a picture of the truck?
RYAN KELLY: I believe that was -- something -- one of the items we wanted to discuss with Mr. Murdaugh.
MR. HARPOOTLIAN: Okay, and so you were giving the impression that at that point you still believed him and you just wanted to show him a picture of a truck.
MR. WATERS: Objection. 401, Your Honor.
MR. HARPOOTLIAN: Relevance? Really?
JUDGE NEWMAN: Let me hear that question again.
MR. HARPOOTLIAN: You indicated to a member of his family you knew was communicating with him that all you wanted to do was show him a picture of a truck.
MR. WATERS: Object to the form, Your Honor.
JUDGE NEWMAN: It's cross-examination. Overruled.
MR. HARPOOTLIAN: Thank you.
MR. HARPOOTLIAN: Did you --
JUDGE NEWMAN: You've asked the question. What's the response?
MR. HARPOOTLIAN: I have asked the question.
RYAN KELLY: Could you repeat the question, please? I'm sorry, I just --
MR. HARPOOTLIAN: Special -- are you a Senior Special Agent?
RYAN KELLY: Yes, sir, I am.
MR. HARPOOTLIAN: Senior Special Agent Kelly, did you communicate to a member of Mr. Murdaugh's family, Randy Murdaugh, that all you wanted to do was show him a picture of a truck? That was paramount in your -- to you, and that's what you communicated to Mr. Murdaugh.
MR. WATERS: Objection. 401, Your Honor.
JUDGE NEWMAN: The objection is overruled.
RYAN KELLY: The question you asked me is that -- and I responded to you that was one of the things. That was not the only thing. You know, we knew the identity of Curtis Smith. We knew the truck that Mr. Smith --
MR. HARPOOTLIAN: I didn't ask you what you else you knew. I asked you --
MR. WATERS: I would ask that the witness be allowed to complete his answer, Your Honor.
JUDGE NEWMAN: You may continue your response.
RYAN KELLY: We wanted to meet with Mr. Murdaugh to show him images of the truck. We wanted to show him to see -- at this point we suspected he was not telling the truth, and we wanted to see if he would continue to not tell -- continue to lie to us about not knowing the existence of Curtis, or the truck, or if he would, you know, show some type of clarity, and --
MR. HARPOOTLIAN: So -- and this goes to sort of the same issue. When you wanted to see him --
MR. HARPOOTLIAN: Where are the exhibits I just introduced? Okay.
MR. HARPOOTLIAN: When you wanted to see him and you contacted me, I indicated he was in detox, right?
MR. WATERS: Objection to counsel's statement.
JUDGE NEWMAN: The objection is sustained.
MR. HARPOOTLIAN: Were you aware that he was in detox in Atlanta?
RYAN KELLY: I was aware that he was out of state, and based on the information you told me, and I took you at your word, that he was seeking treatment in an out of state facility.
MR. HARPOOTLIAN: Okay, and did I indicate to you, or did anybody indicate to you in detox you need an uninterrupted period to get off the drugs?
RYAN KELLY: That's -- I believe that is what you explained to me.
MR. HARPOOTLIAN: Okay, and that he wouldn't be competent to communicate until he had been --
MR. HARPOOTLIAN: Where is the hospital records? Maybe I walked away with them.
MR. HARPOOTLIAN: He would not be competent to speak with you until the doctors said he was competent, right?
RYAN KELLY: On the morning -- on the September 4th incident, he consumed opioids that morning. He was not detoxing or coming off those drugs. He did not appear to be under the influence of any narcotics when we met with him in the hospital. He was on his cell phone, he was walking, he was talking, he was coherent. He was the victim of a crime, the only witness that we were aware of for that crime, so we obtained a statement from him so he could tell us what happened.
MR. HARPOOTLIAN: You would concede he'd been shot in the head. I don't, don't want to plow old grounds, but he had a head wound, fractured skull, subdural --
MR. WATERS: Objection. Asked and answered and beyond the scope.
JUDGE NEWMAN: The objection sustained. It has been asked and answered.
MR. HARPOOTLIAN: Okay. Did you ask a doctor if he was competent to speak with you?
RYAN KELLY: Again, those medical records that doctors --
MR. HARPOOTLIAN: No, that's not what I'm asking you. I'm asking you if you talked to a doctor and said is he competent to talk to us? Did you do that?
RYAN KELLY: Mr. Harpootlian --
MR. HARPOOTLIAN: Would you just say yes or no and we can move on.
MR. WATERS: I would like to ask that the witness be allowed to the answer the question. I object to the form.
JUDGE NEWMAN: You may answer the question yes or no.
RYAN KELLY: Could you repeat the question?
MR. HARPOOTLIAN: Did you speak to one of his physicians, or any medical personnel, and ask them if he was competent to speak with you in the hospital?
RYAN KELLY: I did not.
MR. HARPOOTLIAN: Okay. Now let's look at part of the records that are in evidence, and there was drug testing done on this day, correct?
RYAN KELLY: Again, they did not discuss with me his medical records. Mr. Harpootlian, they didn't talk to me about his medical records.
MR. HARPOOTLIAN: And you didn't ask them, did you?
RYAN KELLY: There was -- he was --
MR. HARPOOTLIAN: Did you ask them?
RYAN KELLY: The testing that was going --
MR. HARPOOTLIAN: Did you ask them?
RYAN KELLY: We did not ask to discuss --
MR. HARPOOTLIAN: Okay.
RYAN KELLY: -- specific aspects of Mr. Murdaugh's medical condition. We had to subpoena the records with a court order to have access to them. They will not discuss openly his medical records with us.
MR. HARPOOTLIAN: Did you ask the doctor -- this is repetitive -- but if you had asked the doctor, they would have told you, according to these records, that he was positive for barbiturates and positive for opioids, would they not?
RYAN KELLY: They would have told us that --
MR. WATERS: Objection, Your Honor.
JUDGE NEWMAN: The objection is sustained.
MR. HARPOOTLIAN: Were you -- according to the records that are in evidence, were you aware that he was on opioids and he had a positive test for opioids and benzos?
RYAN KELLY: Once we have subpoenaed --
MR. HARPOOTLIAN: Would you please answer yes or no?
RYAN KELLY: Once we got the records, we learned --
MR. HARPOOTLIAN: Will you answer yes or no? Were you --
MR. WATERS: Your Honor, I would object to him badgering the witness. The witness is entitled to answer the question.
JUDGE NEWMAN: You may respond as you see fit. Go ahead.
RYAN KELLY: At the time of September 4th, we did not ask the medical doctors, the medical professionals, any information about his condition because they would not discuss it with us. So if I had asked, they would not have discussed it, so we did not ask. When we obtained the medical records through court order, we were able to review them and learn after the fact the diagnosis.
MR. HARPOOTLIAN: Would you still -- if you would have had the medical records, would you have still gone forward with questioning, knowing he had opioids and benzoid -- benzodiazepine in his blood system?
RYAN KELLY: At that point, he was a victim of a crime; he was the only witness to a shooting that we were currently investigating. I would have asked those questions. And when I found that they were consistent with the two other statements he'd already given, it would have allowed us to move forward with the investigation.
MR. HARPOOTLIAN: Beg the Court's indulgence.
(Break in proceedings.)
MR. HARPOOTLIAN: Thank you.
JUDGE NEWMAN: You may step down.
RYAN KELLY: Thank you, Your Honor.
(The witness exited the stand.)