Alex Murdaugh — Cross/Redirect/Recross
2,282 linesFRIDAY, FEBRUARY 24, 2023
(Court resumed at 9:34 a.m.)
JUDGE NEWMAN: Good morning.
(Counselors responded good morning.)
JUDGE NEWMAN: Bring the jury.
(The jury returned to the courtroom.)
COURT BAILIFF: The jury is present, sir.
JUDGE NEWMAN: Thank you. Good morning.
(The jury responded good morning.)
JUDGE NEWMAN: Day number twenty-four. Cross-examination. You may proceed.
MR. WATERS: May it please court?
JUDGE NEWMAN: Yes, sir.
The witness, RICHARD ALEXANDER MURDAUGH, remained under oath and continued testifying as follows:
CONTINUED CROSS-EXAMINATION
BY MR. WATERS:
MR. WATERS: Good morning, Mr. Murdaugh.
ALEX MURDAUGH: Good morning, Mr. Waters.
MR. WATERS: All right, let's see if we can move forward with this a little bit, see if we can go back to some things we may be able to agree on.
ALEX MURDAUGH: All right, sir.
MR. WATERS: All right. First thing is, is that the money you were stealing in addition to your income and the money you were borrowing was not just to pay for drugs. Would you agree with that?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Sure.
MR. WATERS: All right, and would you agree that your stealing, in addition to the money you were borrowing, increased over the years as we moved towards June of 2021?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Repeat that, please, sir.
MR. WATERS: Sure. Would you agree that your stealing increased over the years as we move towards June of 2021?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Yes, sir.
MR. WATERS: And would you admit that your stealing increased in particular after the boat wreck?
ALEX MURDAUGH: No, sir, I don't agree with that.
MR. WATERS: You don't agree with that.
ALEX MURDAUGH: I think I continued to do it, but as I sit here today, I, I don't think I took more money that I should not have taken after the boat wreck than I did before the boat wreck. But again, that those documents speak for themselves, Mr. Waters, and if that's the case, then that's the case. But as we sit here, I, I think that I probably wrongly took from clients and people that trusted me more -- as much money before that boat wreck as after.
MR. WATERS: All right, and I'm just trying -- I'm just trying to get through this so we don't get bogged down like we did yesterday, all right?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I, I understand.
MR. WATERS: All right. So, you wouldn't -- you wouldn't agree with me that in 2019 alone you stole about $3.7 million?
ALEX MURDAUGH: No, I, I think that's correct.
MR. WATERS: All right, and you -- would you agree with me, though, that that figure in 2019 was generally higher than any other year that you've been stealing since 2011?
ALEX MURDAUGH: In any year, sure, I'd agree with that.
MR. WATERS: Okay.
ALEX MURDAUGH: I thought you were talking about overall, the whole, you know, the whole cycle, but yeah, I would agree that in 2019 I stole more money than any other year.
MR. WATERS: Would you agree with me that from 2015 on, your legitimate income, while still very strong, was diminishing as a general matter?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Well, I think whatever my income is speaks for itself, but as a general rule, a plaintiff's lawyer, doing what we do, income ebbs and flows. Some -- you have some really good years. You have some really lean years, and, no, I think I had some -- I think I had some good years. Maybe not the, you know, 4 and $5 million years, but I think I had some 2 and $3 million years in there. And, and my case load was such that, you know, I had -- one of the things I was working on that Monday was one of the biggest cases that I've ever been involved in.
MR. WATERS: Talking about the Dominion case, right?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Yes, sir, and so, you know, I think it was cyclical. I think it -- so I don't -- I don't -- without looking at the record specifically, I, I don't necessarily agree with that.
MR. WATERS: Okay. So, you don't remember then?
ALEX MURDAUGH: No, I do remember. I, I don't think I agree with that. But again, those records will speak for themselves.
MR. WATERS: Okay. All right. So, would you agree with me that in 2014, your reported income was over $1 million?
MR. GRIFFIN: Objection. Relevance, Your Honor.
JUDGE NEWMAN: The objection is overruled.
ALEX MURDAUGH: Reported income like tax wise or reported?
MR. WATERS: Yeah.
ALEX MURDAUGH: I, I assume you have a document that says that, and if you're reading that from a document, I don't dispute it.
MR. WATERS: I mean, I'm happy to show it to you if you'd like to see it.
ALEX MURDAUGH: I trust you, Mr. Waters, sir.
MR. WATERS: All right. Well, I appreciate that. All right, 2015, would you agree that your reported income was over $2 million?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Again, I don't dispute that.
MR. WATERS: All right, 2016 reported income $900,000.
ALEX MURDAUGH: Okay.
MR. WATERS: 2017 reported income $218,000.
ALEX MURDAUGH: Okay.
MR. WATERS: 2018 reported income of $749,000 roughly.
ALEX MURDAUGH: Okay.
MR. WATERS: And 2019 reported income of $655,000.
ALEX MURDAUGH: Okay, and see that, that -- I mean, to me that demonstrates exactly what I'm talking about, how it goes up and down.
MR. WATERS: And would you agree with me that, though, during those periods of time where you were making that kind of money, you continued to steal, and I think you've already said that your stealing increased as we move through those years as a general matter?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Absolutely. I don't dispute and I have never disputed since I was confronted on Labor Day weekend --
MR. WATERS: Right.
ALEX MURDAUGH: -- that I took money from my clients.
MR. WATERS: We've gone through that, okay, and I think --
ALEX MURDAUGH: Well, but --
MR. WATERS: -- I'm asking you --
ALEX MURDAUGH: -- you keep asking me about that, and, and --
MR. WATERS: -- if your, if your income --
MR. GRIFFIN: Your Honor, he should be allowed to answer.
JUDGE NEWMAN: Finish your answer.
ALEX MURDAUGH: So, the, the point is, is I have never since being confronted that day my brother and my partner came to talk to me that I have stolen money that did not belong to me, that I misled people to do it, people that I cared about, still care about, a lot of them that I love and still love, and I misled them to do it, and I was wrong, I, I have never disputed that from day one.
MR. WATERS: Okay, and I -- we've been through that. All I'm trying to establish right now with you, Mr. Murdaugh, is as we move towards June of 2021 what your financial condition was like, okay? I, I agree you testified to that multiple times, all right? So, let me ask you this. During this time that your income was what we just went through and you've conceded that your stealing was increasing, were you also borrowing significant amounts of money from Palmetto State Bank?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Yes, I'd always borrowed significant amounts of money from Palmetto State or, or for the last -- more than the last decade.
MR. WATERS: All right, and --
ALEX MURDAUGH: Yes, sir, I agree with that.
MR. WATERS: As we move to June of 2021, did you have a million dollar line of credit with the bank that was pretty much maxed out? Yes or no?
ALEX MURDAUGH: In, in?
MR. WATERS: As we move to June of 2021.
ALEX MURDAUGH: So, in June of '21?
MR. WATERS: Sure.
ALEX MURDAUGH: Yes.
MR. WATERS: All right, and did you also have a $600,000 line of credit that was pretty much maxed out around that time?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I did.
MR. WATERS: And did you also, over the years, repeatedly borrow six figures from your law partners?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Well, I borrowed money from a law partner.
MR. WATERS: Which one?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Johnny Parker.
MR. WATERS: Johnny Parker, okay, and that was a fairly common occurrence over the years. It happened multiple times. Would you agree with that?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I agree that it happened multiple times.
MR. WATERS: All right, and you would agree also that you would sometimes use some of this stolen money to pay that back?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I, I won't dispute that. I don't know that that's the case. I know what I saw Mr. Burney testify to, and using that particular accounting method, you know, I see that.
MR. WATERS: All right.
ALEX MURDAUGH: So, I, I, I don't dispute that.
MR. WATERS: All right, and would you agree that you also, when you needed money, occasionally borrowed as much as five and six figures from your father, Mr. Randolph?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I did.
MR. WATERS: And would you also agree that over the years, particularly as we move to June of 2021, you would use stolen money to pay that back?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I don't dispute that if that's what the records show.
MR. WATERS: All right, and you, you just mentioned hearing the testimony of Carson Burney and the banker and all that. You would agree with me that as we move to June of 2021, at least in liquid funds, you were running out of money?
ALEX MURDAUGH: In liquid funds as in money on hand or money that I could get?
MR. WATERS: Money that you could -- liquid funds. You're a lawyer. You know what liquid means. Where are you running out of --
ALEX MURDAUGH: I, I don't know what you mean by liquid funds, Mr. Waters.
MR. WATERS: Okay.
MR. WATERS: Money you could readily access, assets that you could readily access to pay your ever increasing debts.
ALEX MURDAUGH: No, sir, I don't agree with that.
MR. WATERS: You don't agree with that.
ALEX MURDAUGH: I do not agree with that.
MR. WATERS: Okay.
ALEX MURDAUGH: And I'll tell you why.
MR. WATERS: All right.
ALEX MURDAUGH: In, in -- so, are we talking about June?
MR. WATERS: I'm talking about as we move to June.
ALEX MURDAUGH: Okay, but what time period are you talking about?
MR. WATERS: All right, let's talk about January to June.
ALEX MURDAUGH: Okay, January to June. January to June, I could borrow money from my father. I could borrow money from Johnny Parker. I could go to the bank and borrow money. I had substantial equity in the Edisto house.
MR. WATERS: Right.
ALEX MURDAUGH: As we've talked about.
MR. WATERS: Which was in Maggie's name, correct?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Well, it was in Maggie and my name.
MR. WATERS: All right.
ALEX MURDAUGH: So, you know, that definitely was, was in, in both of our names. Moselle was in Maggie's name with substantial equity in that that could have been borrowed against. So, under the -- under the terms as you defined liquid assets just now, money that I would have access to, I disagree with.
MR. WATERS: Okay.
ALEX MURDAUGH: On that, for those reasons that I just said.
MR. WATERS: Can we at least agree that generally the way the compensation structure for legitimate money that you earned in your law firm, the vast majority of your compensation does not come except in one lump sum in December? Can we agree to that?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Right. We get a salary. We, we would receive a salary. I believe our salary was $125,000.
MR. WATERS: Right.
ALEX MURDAUGH: And then the income that was earned would be paid in the form of a bonus at the year end.
MR. WATERS: All right, and then would you agree with me that that is why you stole the Faris fees in March of 2021, because you were in desperate need of funds and you could not wait till December to access those funds?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I think there's probably a lot of reasons why I stole those funds, but I certainly would believe or don't dispute that that's one of the reasons.
MR. WATERS: And would you agree with me that the $792,000 that you stole of those Faris funds, that you exhausted those within about two months?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I don't know the time period, but I know that they -- I know that I exhausted them.
MR. WATERS: Now, again, I'm trying to get through this quickly, but there's a lot more to talk about obviously. But we went through a number of questions yesterday about the various clients that you stole from, correct? You remember that? The back and forth we had yesterday, do you remember all that?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Sure I do.
MR. WATERS: Okay. All right, and so I'm going to try to short change this, but I think it's important that we at least say the names of the people that were involved, but let's just do this to see --
MR. GRIFFIN: Object to the comment, Your Honor. It's inappropriate.
MR. WATERS: I'll rephrase, Your Honor.
MR. WATERS: The clients that we're talking about, these are all real people, yes or no?
ALEX MURDAUGH: They're all real people.
MR. WATERS: All right, and these clients --
ALEX MURDAUGH: They're all good people. They're all people that I care about, that I cared about then, and a lot of them, people that I love.
MR. WATERS: Okay.
ALEX MURDAUGH: And I did wrong by them.
MR. WATERS: Yes. You hurt the people that you love. I know. So --
MR. GRIFFIN: Object to the comment, Your Honor.
JUDGE NEWMAN: Sustained.
MR. WATERS: These were all people, every single one of them, that you at least had a personal conversation with at some point during the course of your representation.
ALEX MURDAUGH: All of my clients?
MR. WATERS: About the representation.
ALEX MURDAUGH: Absolutely. I had multiple conversations with all of my clients.
MR. WATERS: And these were people, every single one of them, real people that you looked in the eye and convinced them that everything was right.
MR. GRIFFIN: Objection, Your Honor. 403. Repetitive, cumulative. Spent 2 hours doing this yesterday.
MR. WATERS: I'm just trying to short change it, Your Honor, with simple questions that applies to everybody, and then I'm moving on.
JUDGE NEWMAN: Proceed.
ALEX MURDAUGH: I, I would have had conversations with all of my clients and that some of the conversations would have been on the telephone. I would have had conversations where I might not be looking them in the eye; I would have had plenty of conversations where I did look them in the eye.
MR. WATERS: Every single one of them, looked them in the eye at least once. Is that fair?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Sure.
MR. WATERS: Every single one of them, you looked them in the eye and developed their trust in you. Is that correct?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Every client that I had, at some point I, I looked them in the eye and I believed that I had the trust of my clients. Whether that came from me looking them in the eye or not, I can't answer that, but I will agree with you that every single client, I looked them in the eye, and I believed that the people that I stole money from for all those years trusted me.
MR. WATERS: And I'm going to show you what's been previously admitted as State's 329, I believe it is, and 314 and I'm just going to ask you to peruse those spreadsheets really quickly, and once you've had a chance to do that, let me know and I'll just have one or two questions about that.
(Break in proceedings.)
ALEX MURDAUGH: All right. So, I'm sorry. What was your question?
MR. WATERS: I just asked you to look at them. Have you had a chance to review those documents?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I have.
MR. WATERS: All right, and would you agree with me that every single name on here are either clients that trusted you that you stole from or instances in which you stole from your law partners who trusted you as well?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I agree with that.
MR. WATERS: All right, and so we don't need to go through each one of these, correct? You agree with that?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Mr. Waters, like I've told you, I'll go through whatever you want to go through, but each one of those clients is just what we've already talked about: good people, fine people, upstanding people. They trusted me. Every single one of them I did and I do still care about, and many of them I love and considered them close friends.
MR. WATERS: Like Barrett Boulware?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Absolutely. He's a perfect example.
MR. WATERS: And you stole from Barrett Boulware?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I did.
MR. WATERS: Do you recall a conversation that you had with Ronnie Crosby in which he told you that Barrett was desperate for money because he needed his wife to stay in a hotel near him while he was undergoing treatment for terminal cancer around the time that you stole from him?
MR. GRIFFIN: Objection. Hearsay, Your Honor.
MR. WATERS: I'm asking him if he recalls that conversation.
JUDGE NEWMAN: Objection is overruled.
ALEX MURDAUGH: I don't recall that conversation, but, you know, I, I knew Barrett was sick. But, you know, Barrett is a unique situation. I mean, Barrett, Barrett is and was dear to me as a friend. But, I mean, Barrett and I had a long, long history, you know. I guess really -- and, and I lied probably more by omission, lies by omission in stealing that money. But that's a perfect example. You keep asking about me having these conversations and looking people in the eye. I mean, that's a perfect example. I mean, when I stole that money, he was nowhere around. It was more based on lies by omission. And, and Barrett and I had such a history with these real estate deals that you're asking me about. Barrett was one of my good friends and we had been in these real estate deals together. Barrett was just an interesting person. He was a shrimper, was born and raised in Allendale County and, and he moved down to the coast and --
MR. WATERS: Mr. Murdaugh.
ALEX MURDAUGH: -- as shrimping --
MR. WATERS: Mr. Murdaugh, we don't need Barrett's entire life story.
ALEX MURDAUGH: No, but it's, it's important to understand --
MR. WATERS: Let me just ask you this.
ALEX MURDAUGH: -- this based on the question you asked.
MR. WATERS: I don't think his entire life story is responsive, Your Honor.
ALEX MURDAUGH: And I'm not intending to give his story. I'm just telling you a little background so you'll understand this.
MR. WATERS: Go ahead. Tell us about this friend that you stole from.
ALEX MURDAUGH: So, Barrett started, started getting into real estate and he was really good at it, and so I started getting involved with him in that. He would go out and find pieces of property that were really cheap, get them and sell them and, and, and make money. Well, we got in some of these deals and we got in with Barrett and some other people. Well, when the recession hit, one of the reasons these land deals caused me trouble is because the people that I was in these deals with no longer could pay, where -- whereas I might have gone in and I was a 20 percent person. I'm now all of a sudden either I have to default at the bank and, and, affect credit, affect ability to borrow, or I have to pay 100 percent, and so that's what I did. I paid 100 percent, and so there were years where I was paying instead of a fifth or a half, I'm paying the whole thing and it equated to hundreds of thousands. It equated to millions of dollars, which is one of the ways why I ended up with the Moselle property because I had paid more than $1 million in monies for, for, for Barrett, and that was part of the deal and the trade and me purchasing Moselle.
MR. WATERS: So, what you're telling me is you felt like you were entitled to steal from him.
ALEX MURDAUGH: No, no. You know what? I will just tell you this, that, you know, when you're doing the things wrong that I was doing, you have all kind of ways of justifying it. And, and I'm not saying that makes it right by any means because it's not. It's wrong. I've said that a hundred times. But when I was doing it and I was as addicted as I was and things I was doing, there's all kind of things that you, you know, to be able to look yourself in the mirror, you lie to yourself. And, I guess, self justification for these bad things, you know, I guess is what I was doing. But, you know, Barrett had owed me so much money that when I took his money, I, I just didn't tell him. So, it, it was a lie of omission.
MR. WATERS: All right. All these people on these two exhibits, these are real people that needed this money. Is that correct?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I'm sure they did.
MR. WATERS: But it was more important to you that you stole their money on top of the 40 percent of legal fees that you were taking.
MR. GRIFFIN: Judge, asked and answered? Repetitive.
MR. WATERS: I've never asked that question.
ALEX MURDAUGH: I stole their money.
MR. WATERS: It's more important to you than their needs. Is that correct?
MR. GRIFFIN: Objection.
JUDGE NEWMAN: Objection is overruled.
ALEX MURDAUGH: I don't remember sitting down and calculating, okay, is this more important? You know, one of the self justifications that I talked about, Mr. Waters, is -- and, and this is one of the things. Again, I want to make it clear. I don't, as I sit here today, I do not believe that any of this, justifications that I'm talking about, made any of this okay because I don't. I've, I've owned up to all this money I stole. I've tried to since I was confronted and I continue here today. But one of the justifications at the time when I was taking pills and doing the things I was doing was I may ask a partner, okay, how much is this case worth? And if, if, if one of my partners -- and I may not even give them all the real facts, okay? So, if they said this case is worth $100,000, okay, and I go out and I get them $300,000, you know, that's one of the stupid little things, okay? Well, this isn't the same, and that's one of those justifications that I used in looking back on this that I don't know how I did. But -- so to sit down and say did I evaluate that they needed the money more than I did, you know, I don't think I did that. I think I was selfish and I, I think I just took the money.
MR. WATERS: I think I understand. I asked you a series of questions yesterday about -- at least relating to one conversation you had with one of these clients. I'm just going to ask you this one. Do you remember looking Tony Satterfield in the eye and lying to him?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I remember lying to Tony Satterfield, and I remember looking him in the eye on many occasions.
MR. WATERS: And lying to him.
ALEX MURDAUGH: Yeah.
MR. WATERS: Lying to his family.
ALEX MURDAUGH: I lied to his family. I don't know if I did it in person, but I know I had phone conversations with him where I lied to him.
MR. WATERS: Let's talk a little bit about the pills, if we can.
ALEX MURDAUGH: Okay.
MR. WATERS: And you've already testified, as have other people, that you were still able to function as a lawyer over the years despite the pills that you were using. Is that correct?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Yes, sir.
MR. WATERS: And you were able, of course, during this period of time to engage in these relatively complicated thefts that increased over the years that we've just talked about despite the pill usage. Is that correct?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I was. I was.
MR. WATERS: And you were also able to, during the time period, convince your staff that nothing was amiss with all of these exhibits despite your pill usage.
ALEX MURDAUGH: I mean, most of those didn't require convincing my staff, but just so we're on the same page, again I acknowledge that I certainly allowed them to be misled. I certainly allowed them to do things that I shouldn't have done on my behalf, knowing that they trusted me.
MR. WATERS: How many -- how many pills were you using a day?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Depends on a number of items. Most, most importantly how strong the pill was.
MR. WATERS: Okay. Well, let's, let's talk about -- let's, say, start maybe in January of 2021 and move forward. Can you describe to the jury what your daily pill intake was like?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I think at that time, most of what I was purchasing was 30 milligram pills, instant release oxycodone. Probably mixed in with some Oxycontin, which is made of oxycodone. It's just time released. I would have been taking anywhere from 1500 milligrams maybe to maybe, maybe 1000 or maybe 1000 milligrams or 1200 milligrams on a day I didn't take as much or didn't have as much up to -- I mean, there are days, many days, a lot of days, most days were more than that. And many days would be, you know, 20 -- more than 2000 milligrams a day.
MR. WATERS: How many pills is that?
ALEX MURDAUGH: It depends on the strength of the pill.
MR. WATERS: Well, let's say it's the 30s that you just mentioned.
ALEX MURDAUGH: If I took 30 -- if, if I would have 30 milligram pills, you figure 100 pills would be 3000 milligrams.
MR. WATERS: Okay. 100.
ALEX MURDAUGH: 100?
MR. WATERS: So, you're taking sixty a day or something like that?
ALEX MURDAUGH: There were days where I took more than that; there were days I took less than that.
MR. WATERS: And how would you take it during the course of the day? I mean, how many are you taking at one time? How frequent in this time period, let's say January to June?
ALEX MURDAUGH: You know, there's a point in time, and I'm not sure when it was. I think it was well before that where -- and you have to understand this. This is something that I didn't -- I can still remember the first time I ever took an Oxycontin.
MR. WATERS: Mr. Murdaugh, can I ask you to answer my question, and I'll let you explain all you want. My question was --
ALEX MURDAUGH: I'm --
MR. WATERS: -- how many were you taking a day during this time from January to June? Answer that first, please, and if you want to explain, I'm happy to let you do so.
ALEX MURDAUGH: I'm not positive and here's why. It's because over the years, as I was saying, the first Oxycontin, one Oxycontin made me -- literally made me sick, and that was when I was transitioning from hydrocodone to oxycodone and it made me sick because it was a really, really, really strong one. And so, you know, one Oxycontin pill was like ten hydrocodone pills. So -- but anyway, as I took more and more, and over the years it just -- you know, you build up a tolerance to pain pills. And so what might give me this energy -- what -- the reason, one of the reasons I became so addicted is, you know, some people talk about pain pills and how they make them lethargic and, you know, where they can't do anything and they feel -- opiates gave me energy. I mean, I -- it -- whatever I was doing, it made it more interesting. You know, it, it, it made me want to do it longer. You know, go on a drive, it made driving, it just, it just -- at the beginning it made everything better. But I, I took so much just to keep -- it got to a point where I was taking so much just to not backslide or go into withdrawals or have all those symptoms. And so it got to the point where I was taking the amounts that I came to be taking in the time period you're talking about, January to June. So, it, it, it evolved over time. It, it wasn't like it just started then, Mr. Waters.
MR. WATERS: All right, can you just give me one, one example of a day during that time period?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Sure.
MR. WATERS: I mean, just take -- start at 8:00 in the morning or whatever time you got up. You take one and then one every 30 minutes? I mean --
ALEX MURDAUGH: Well, no, it would --
MR. WATERS: I'm giving you a chance to explain. So, now --
ALEX MURDAUGH: It would totally depend. It would totally depend on any number of circumstances. So, starting a day, one of the main things that this would depend on was how late in the day before I had taken pills, and how many I had taken, and did I take them during the night? Did I wake up during the night and take them? So, you know, let's just say that it had been awhile since I took any and I slept and I woke up, all right? Then I would immediately, immediately first thing take pills because if it's been awhile, a lot of times if you slept and hadn't taken pills, you'd wake up and you could tell the beginnings of those -- I'm not going to say they were really withdrawals, but the agitation that you feel when you don't take any, and you could tell it. So, you had to take it right away. And so I would start off. First thing I would do was take pills.
MR. WATERS: And that's how strong withdrawals are for opiates, correct? That you feel that agitation until you can take another pill?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Yes. I mean, but that, I mean, that's just -- agitation is the tip of the iceberg when --
MR. WATERS: Let's talk about that.
ALEX MURDAUGH: -- it comes to withdrawals, opiate withdrawals.
MR. WATERS: I think you, you said in your -- what's been played for the jury and the telephone conversation with Special Agent Kelly that you talked about withdrawals, just how strong they are, how you're willing to do anything to make them stop, correct?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I think what I said was almost anything.
MR. WATERS: Almost anything. Well, describe that, please.
ALEX MURDAUGH: I mean, you're sick. I mean, you're physically -- you know, you are physically sick. You -- it's like having the flu when you ache and your joints hurt. You don't want to get up and you can't get up and, and that's after awhile. It starts with what you're talking about, agitation and, you know, fidgety. Everybody talks about how fidgety I was. But it, it, it starts with, with that and then it goes to, you know, you just -- you might be sitting here and just all of a sudden sweat's running down your face, all over your body like you ran a marathon. I mean, you literally sweat that much. The next thing that comes on after about, I don't know, 12 hours is I call it jumpy legs, but, I mean, you literally, I mean, you -- there -- there's no way that you could sit right here in this chair. I mean, you couldn't, you couldn't remain sitting. I mean, you would have to get up and move around. And, I mean, it's like your legs don't want to work, and that lasts for about 20 -- anywhere from 18 to 24 hours. During, during that period the, you know, the intestinal issues come in and, I mean, you literally can't control yourself. You have diarrhea like you have food poisoning. You throw up. I mean, you're physically, physically sick.
MR. WATERS: How many times did you try to self detox?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Mr. Waters, dozens, dozens, if not hundreds. I, I -- you know, it's so many, I, I can't tell you.
MR. WATERS: And those symptoms you just described are extremely powerful and made it very difficult to do that. Is that correct?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Made it difficult to?
MR. WATERS: Try to self detox.
ALEX MURDAUGH: Oh. It was extremely hard.
MR. WATERS: You mentioned yesterday that you were paranoid. How long had that been going on?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Well, no, I, I didn't say that I was paranoid. What I said was as the addiction evolved, there would be situations where you would have these paranoid thoughts and --
MR. WATERS: When did those first start?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I can't tell you when they first started.
MR. WATERS: How long before June of 2021?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Oh, a long time.
MR. WATERS: A week? Month?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Oh, no. No, no. No, no. It was, you know, it was as my addiction got worse, I mean, it was a significant period of time, but, you know, when, when --
MR. WATERS: How often would you have these paranoid thoughts?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Usually a matter of seconds. I mean, it was something -- again, my whole life you wouldn't see me where I didn't have pills on me and, and that's where I kept them. I kept them on me because I, I was scared to put them somewhere for fear somebody would find them. So, I kept them on me. So if you saw me, I had pills on me. I had a pocket full of pills on June the 8th, on June the 8th when, when I was sitting in David Owen's patrol car. So, I always had them on me. And I might turn, I might be going to Edisto and I turn on Hampton Street right out here, and a police car pulls out. Boom. I have paranoid thoughts. You know, it just -- but I could always say not doing -- you're not doing anything wrong. He's not following you and I, I could get past it in a matter of seconds.
MR. WATERS: All right. Did anybody in your family ever see you having these severe withdrawals?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Absolutely.
MR. WATERS: Who knew that?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Mags, Paul-Paul, Bus, my dad, Randy, John Marvin. And just to be clear, Randy and John Marvin never saw me having withdrawals before September. They saw me --
MR. WATERS: Who -- and thank you for clarifying that. Who prior to June of 2021, who in your family saw you having these severe withdrawals?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Bus, Paul-Paul, Maggie, my dad.
MR. WATERS: Do you remembering calling, remember calling Paul a little detective?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I don't know that I ever called him a little detective, but I think Maggie did. I, I may have. I mean, Paul was very intuitive. So, I heard Marian --
MR. WATERS: Didn't you --
ALEX MURDAUGH: I heard --
MR. WATERS: -- say that in one of your interviews?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I heard Marian call him a little detective. I know Maggie used to call him that.
MR. WATERS: Did that have anything to do with pills?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Well, yeah. It had something to do with it. But, I mean, Paul was always that way. But that, that -- what led him to be called a little detective, certainly there were times when, when Paul found pills.
MR. WATERS: Including just a month before the murders. Is that correct?
ALEX MURDAUGH: No, sir.
MR. WATERS: Do you recall State's 523 that was entered into evidence, which was a text from Paul to you?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I do.
MR. WATERS: In which he said that Maggie found pills in your bag?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Right.
MR. WATERS: Tell me about what happened after that.
ALEX MURDAUGH: You asked me about Paul finding them, but it was Maggie that found them.
MR. WATERS: Fair enough. So, it was Maggie that found them?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Yes, sir.
MR. WATERS: But Paul is the one who reached out to you, correct.
ALEX MURDAUGH: On that occasion, yes, sir.
MR. WATERS: And what was the discussion after that?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I can't remember exactly what it was, but it was about that -- I'd had eye surgery the -- I don't know what day it was, but days before that, the day Maggie found them, Maggie drove me to the doctor for me to have my cataract removed. What -- whatever, whatever they call that surgery. I can't remember, but I had a cataract taken out outpatient. You go in for a couple hours and you come out. And it was during Covid and so Maggie wasn't allowed to come into the doctor's office, and so she sat in the car and I had left pills in the computer bag, and sitting out there bored, I guess she started looking at my computer and found them in the computer bag. So, she found those pills.
MR. WATERS: All right, and so she obviously told Paul, and Paul texted you, correct, about finding those pills.
ALEX MURDAUGH: That's correct.
MR. WATERS: May of 2021.
ALEX MURDAUGH: That's correct.
MR. WATERS: And you've heard your sister-in-law Marian testify that Maggie called him the little detective about the pills. You heard that testimony in this courtroom?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I did hear that.
MR. WATERS: So, did they start to watch you like a hawk and get on you about your pill usage during the month of May?
MR. WATERS: They did not?
ALEX MURDAUGH: No. Mr. Waters, this battle that I had with addiction, it had been going on for years, years, and so they had been watching me like a hawk for years before May. May was just one occurrence where I let them down again.
MR. WATERS: They had been watching you like a hawk for years. Is that correct?
ALEX MURDAUGH: About my pill addiction, yes, sir, that is correct.
MR. WATERS: Well this time in May, that wasn't the only time that Paul found pills or Maggie found pills. Is that correct?
ALEX MURDAUGH: No. There were a number of times where Mags found pills, Paul-Paul found pills, Bus found pills. I mean, it was a ongoing -- it was just a ongoing battle for me.
MR. WATERS: And after they found those pills in May -- that being Maggie and Paul -- were they trying to get you to self detox?
ALEX MURDAUGH: No, sir, not at that point in time.
MR. WATERS: They just let it go?
ALEX MURDAUGH: No, they didn't let it go, but at that point in time, Paul-Paul and I had already had a discussion based on -- I can't remember exactly when it was, but there had been a previous occasion a good while back where -- there had been a previous occasion where either Maggie or Paul had found pills, and Paul had come to me and asked me, and I told him, you know, I was back on the pills, and --
MR. WATERS: When was this occasion?
ALEX MURDAUGH: We had had a long talk. As I said, I don't remember exactly when it was. Before that, Paul and I had a long talk and we'd agreed -- I had agreed, and I detoxed so many times. I'd been to detox. I detoxed at home with Maggie's help, detoxed at home with doctor's help, detoxed on my own, tried to, and, and, it, it just -- just detoxing just didn't work. It just -- you couldn't. You could detox but you couldn't -- no, not you. I couldn't. I couldn't stay off of them. And so I promised Paul that as soon as his -- as soon as we finished with his criminal case, that I would go to rehab. And, and on this particular occasion, Paul knew that his mom worried about me so much with pills that on this particular occasion, I think that Paul-Paul convinced Maggie that I got those pills in anticipation of the eye surgery but that I never took them so that she would not worry that I was once again --
MR. WATERS: So, you're talking about -- now you're claiming that about the time in May that, that Paul talked to Maggie and convinced her of that, or are you talking about a different time?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I'm not claiming that, Mr. Waters. That's a fact as to what happened.
MR. WATERS: We're, we're hearing that now, correct?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Hearing what now?
MR. WATERS: What you just said.
ALEX MURDAUGH: Well, you just asked me this. Mr. Waters, you keep making the issue about the first time I -- you hearing these things. When, when I got arrested and I went to jail, we began reaching out to you to talk to you about all of these things, to try to tell you everything that I had done, to give you all these details, to help y'all go through these financial things. And up until the time that y'all charged me with murdering my wife and child, you would never give Jim Griffin a response to our invitations to sit down and meet with you.
MR. WATERS: So, you're telling me I never responded to Jim Griffin. Is that what you're saying here today?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I'm telling you --
MR. WATERS: Are you saying that you ever before yesterday reached out to anyone through yourself or through your attorneys and reached out to anyone in law enforcement or the prosecution and told them the story about the kennels? Are you telling me that?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I'm -- what I'm telling you, Mr. Waters --
MR. WATERS: Would you answer my question first, please, sir? Answer my question first. Did you ever reach out to anyone in law enforcement or the prosecution and tell that story that you told this jury yesterday about the kennels before yesterday?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Did I ever reach out to law enforcement --
MR. WATERS: Did you --
ALEX MURDAUGH: -- to say I want to tell you about the kennels? No, sir, I did not.
MR. GRIFFIN: Objection, Your Honor.
ALEX MURDAUGH: What I --
MR. GRIFFIN: This is on the Fifth Amendment line.
JUDGE NEWMAN: Pardon?
MR. GRIFFIN: He's, he's questioning about his volunteering information on these charges violates his Fifth Amendment rights, and we strongly object. Any more and we would have to make a motion.
MR. WATERS: He brought it up, Your Honor.
JUDGE NEWMAN: The objection is overruled.
ALEX MURDAUGH: What I did was -- so --
MR. WATERS: Answer my question first.
MR. GRIFFIN: Your Honor, for the record, he did not bring it -- he was talking about financial --
JUDGE NEWMAN: Objection, sir. Sit down, Mr. Griffin.
MR. WATERS: Yes or no question. Before yesterday, did you ever bring up what you told this jury about that kennels to anybody in the prosecution or anybody in law enforcement?
ALEX MURDAUGH: No. I, I didn't have the opportunity to, Mr. Waters, because you would not respond to my invitations to reach out and tell you about all the things that I'd done wrong and to talk about bringing this to a head, to talk about bringing this to a conclusion. I understand how many people I hurt. I understand how angry my partners are and how hurt they are, and I understand how hurt these people that I stole money from are. I understand how hurt they are, and one of the things that I believe is getting past this may help them get some closure. And so since at least January, I've been trying to sit down with y'all to talk to y'all.
MR. WATERS: Okay.
ALEX MURDAUGH: And never, never, ever got a response to the multiple requests.
MR. WATERS: Multiple requests?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Yes, sir, multiple requests. I, I, I would ask about this --
MR. WATERS: All right, Mr. Murdaugh, let's --
ALEX MURDAUGH: -- every few weeks.
MR. WATERS: -- ask this, sir.
ALEX MURDAUGH: Sir?
MR. WATERS: Did Mark Ball ever hear your story to the jury about the kennels until yesterday, your buddy and law partner Mark Ball?
ALEX MURDAUGH: No, sir. I haven't spoken to Mark Ball since I went to rehab.
MR. WATERS: And these were the same law partners that you were listening to the night of. Is that -- is that what you testified to this jury earlier? You testified to that earlier, did you not?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I don't understand your question.
MR. WATERS: Didn't you testify earlier that you were listening to your law partners on the night of the incident?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Did -- was I listening to them?
MR. WATERS: Yeah. You testified to that. It's a simple question, sir.
ALEX MURDAUGH: I'm, I'm sure I was. When are you talking about?
MR. WATERS: On June 8th in the early morning hours, you testified to this jury that you were listening to them, but you never told them the kennel story either, and they heard it for the first time yesterday as well. Isn't that correct?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Yes, that's the first time they heard it.
MR. WATERS: First time that Ronnie Crosby ever heard that would have been yesterday.
ALEX MURDAUGH: If he was listening, that would have been the first time he heard it.
MR. WATERS: First time Johnny Parker ever heard that was yesterday.
ALEX MURDAUGH: Yes.
MR. WATERS: First time Danny Henderson, who was representing you in the boat case, ever heard that was yesterday.
ALEX MURDAUGH: Yes. Yesterday is the first time that I have said that openly, but that -- that's not what you were asking me, Mr. Waters, but you go ahead.
MR. WATERS: First time your brother Randy heard.
ALEX MURDAUGH: If he was listening. And Mr. Waters, just to be clear, I was begging for a meeting with y'all to try to bring this to a close, to talk to y'all about everything up until the time that y'all charged me with hurting Maggie and Paul. Now at -- after that point in time, I stopped obviously.
MR. WATERS: You're claiming that you were begging for a meeting, and information -- but you admit the information was never conveyed that you wanted to change your story after multiple interviews with law enforcement about what happened that night, including the most important fact of all, which is when the last time you supposedly saw your wife and son alive was.
ALEX MURDAUGH: I don't know exactly what was conveyed or not because -- to you because I wasn't part of that. All I know is what --
MR. WATERS: Fair enough.
ALEX MURDAUGH: -- is what I was trying to do was to sit down. I understood to bring all this to a close, that y'all would want me to sit down and go through all of these financial things, all of these things that I'd done wrong, and to try to bring that to a close. I was repeatedly trying to sit down with y'all.
MR. WATERS: The reality is, Mr. Murdaugh, is the reason why no one's ever heard that before is because you had to sit in this courtroom and hear your family and your friends, one after the other, come in and testify that you were on that kennel video. So you, like you've done so many times over the course of your life, had to back up and make a new story that kind of fit with the facts that can't be denied. Isn't that true, sir?
ALEX MURDAUGH: No, sir, that's not true.
MR. WATERS: You've done that over and over again over the years with all of this we've been talking about, haven't you?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I've done what over and over again?
MR. WATERS: The second that you're confronted with facts that you can't deny, you immediately come up with a new lie. Isn't that correct?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Mr. Waters, as we established, I have lied many times, but I can't sit here and tell you that -- what are you talking about? Facts that I can't deny that I, I -- I would disagree with that proposition that you're putting out, that was what I did all the time. But in, in doing that, I admit again that I've lied to people that trusted me.
MR. WATERS: So, we can agree that prosecution and law enforcement and so many of your friends and family heard for the first time your story about the kennels yesterday after all these weeks of testimony. Can we agree on that?
ALEX MURDAUGH: That law enforcement and my partners and my friends heard me say that for the first time, yes, I agree with that.
MR. WATERS: Would you agree with me that your own lawyer was repeating your story that you were at home napping as late as November of '22 on national television?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I don't -- I don't know.
MR. WATERS: You don't know that?
ALEX MURDAUGH: No. In jail we don't -- we don't get newspapers and the TV we have is limited, so.
MR. WATERS: So, your own lawyers at least as late as November '22 didn't know this story that you told to this jury after five weeks of your family and friends coming in and saying yeah, that's him on that video.
ALEX MURDAUGH: I don't know --
MR. GRIFFIN: Objection, Your Honor. It violates attorney/client privilege communications. It's totally improper.
MR. WATERS: He, again, has brought --
MR. GRIFFIN: Totally improper.
JUDGE NEWMAN: Yes, sir. Response.
MR. WATERS: He has brought up his communication with counsel, and now that is fair game, Your Honor, his communications through counsel or alleged communications with the prosecution.
JUDGE NEWMAN: There's no attorney/client privilege to national television interviews. The objection is overruled.
MR. GRIFFIN: Thank you, Your Honor.
ALEX MURDAUGH: Are you waiting for me to answer, Mr. Waters, or did I answer?
MR. WATERS: I think I've asked enough.
ALEX MURDAUGH: All right, sir.
MR. WATERS: You said you were unaware of that national television interview. Is that what you said?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Unaware of what national television interview?
MR. WATERS: The one where your lawyer repeated that story as late as November of 2022, your story that you were actually home asleep at the house.
ALEX MURDAUGH: The only -- the only national TV that ad I'm aware of is -- not ad, program, is one that Mr. Griffin was involved in was a -- are you referring to, like, a Dateline something?
MR. WATERS: Talking about HBO.
ALEX MURDAUGH: Okay, HBO. All right. Like, so, yeah, I am aware of that. And, and what I believe the case to be is that I believe that when that was in the works, that Mr. Griffin made those statements sometime substantially before November of '22, as early as around the very beginning of 2021.
MR. WATERS: Let's talk --
ALEX MURDAUGH: At least what I understand to be the case.
MR. WATERS: Let's talk some more about your testimony from yesterday. And you're telling this jury even in something as clear as this kennel video, that your story doesn't change when you have to make them fit the facts that no longer can be denied. Is that what you're telling this jury?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I don't understand that question. Say that again.
MR. WATERS: I said you're telling this jury that you don't change your story to make the facts fit evidence you can no longer deny, like what's been going on in this courtroom?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I'm not telling the jury anything about that.
MR. WATERS: All right. Good. All right, let's move on. Let's talk some more about that issue. Let's talk about the confrontation on June the 7th with Jeannie Seckinger, which you said was no big deal. Isn't that what you testified, words to that effect?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I think what I testified to is that to me it certainly didn't seem like a confrontation. Jeannie came to me and was almost apologetic. And this is what I believe, Mr. Waters, is I believe that what Jeannie Seckinger and my partners have had to go through since September has been hard. I know they -- I mean, I could see it. I could see the hurt that I caused them and, and, I know that they're betrayed, and I know that they're angry, and I know that they're hurt.
MR. WATERS: Right.
ALEX MURDAUGH: And I want to make clear that this, that while I disagree with what Jeannie said as to it being a confrontation, because I don't believe that it was, I don't think that she was lying. I think that she feels it. I think that, you know, she believes that that's the case after all this time that she's had to deal with this. But on June the 7th when she came to me, she was almost apologetic. She, she -- you, you heard her to say that she said that she wouldn't be doing her job if she didn't do this. And it was made clear to me that someone had said this. That I, I had to make sure that income came through the firm, that I couldn't structure money. In other words, I had the impression that there was concern that maybe, like Mark Ball and Ronnie Crosby said, that maybe I was hiding, hiding fees because of the civil boat case.
MR. WATERS: Let me see if I can summarize.
ALEX MURDAUGH: But that conversation was so quick, Mr. Waters, that -- you keep using the, the term confrontation. I didn't take it as a confrontation.
MR. WATERS: And you're telling this jury you're not making that an issue, but -- make your story fit with those facts by saying, ah, it wasn't a big deal and Jeannie. She's hurt, so she's overreacting.
ALEX MURDAUGH: No, that's not what I'm saying.
MR. WATERS: You got on that stand and testified.
ALEX MURDAUGH: What I'm saying is exactly what I just testified to, that to me on that day, that was not a confrontation. It ended almost as quickly as it began, and I didn't think about it again for a period of time until after everything happened.
MR. WATERS: You testified earlier you get paranoid if a police officer turns out behind you, but you're not getting paranoid when Jeannie comes in here and says I need an answer about these fees.
ALEX MURDAUGH: No, because --
MR. WATERS: Because I believe you took them.
ALEX MURDAUGH: No. Things like that wouldn't cause -- the, the paranoid thought and the paranoid thinking, it was always related to pills. It was always, okay, that reaction that somebody just gave me, do, do --
MR. WATERS: It was always related to pills.
ALEX MURDAUGH: Do, do they know something, did -- something somebody said. It, it was -- I mean, the times, that -- that's what -- when I, when I had to deal with paranoid thinking that, you know, if, if a judge confronted me in the courtroom about a piece of evidence or if Jeannie asked me about that, those, those are not things that gave me paranoid thinking.
MR. WATERS: Okay, and you testified the same thing about the boat hearing on June 10th. Not worried about it. No big deal, correct?
ALEX MURDAUGH: No, I didn't say that it was no big deal, but I said that my main concern about those motions coming up on June the 10th dealt more with the venue motion than they did with the motion to compel I believe is what I said.
MR. WATERS: Are you telling jury that you didn't testify yesterday that you weren't concerned about it?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I wasn't overly concerned about it.
MR. WATERS: Okay.
ALEX MURDAUGH: And I'm sure I had some level of concern because the venue motion was -- it was -- it was a big issue in the case.
MR. WATERS: Well, were you concerned enough about it to bow up on Mark Tinsley at the Trial Lawyers conference and say what are you doing, Bo?
ALEX MURDAUGH: No. Absolutely, unequivocally never happened.
MR. WATERS: If the Faris fee issue comes to light on June the 7th, you're not going to be able to borrow money from Johnny Parker anymore, are you?
ALEX MURDAUGH: If the Faris fees, hypothetically speaking, if the Faris fee came to light on June the 7th? Well, here. Any point in time if the Faris fee came to light, Johnny Parker would not loan me money. If, if, if Johnny knew that I had taken fees, I would not have been able to borrow money from Johnny Parker.
MR. WATERS: You testified earlier about going to the Gamecock baseball game on the weekend prior to Monday, June 7, 2021.
ALEX MURDAUGH: That's correct.
MR. WATERS: Hold on for me real quick.
ALEX MURDAUGH: Sir?
MR. WATERS: Hold on for me real quick.
(Break in proceedings.)
MR. WATERS: All right, I'm going to show you what's been marked as State's 572 to this trial. You got your readers with you or your glasses? And have you first -- I just want you to look through that document and then answer the question do you generally know what that is.
JUDGE NEWMAN: Mr. Waters, someone wants something. So, if you'll stand for a moment? Everybody stand for a moment.
MR. WATERS: Oh, I'm sorry.
(Break in proceedings.)
JUDGE NEWMAN: Okay, we'll come to order. You may proceed.
MR. WATERS: May it please the Court?
JUDGE NEWMAN: Yes.
MR. WATERS: Have you had a chance to review that, Mr. Murdaugh?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Yes, sir.
MR. WATERS: All right. Do you recognize what those are generally?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I do.
MR. WATERS: And what are they?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Texts between Maggie and I.
MR. WATERS: And what date do they take place?
ALEX MURDAUGH: June the -- June the 6th.
MR. WATERS: June the 6, 2021. Is that correct?
ALEX MURDAUGH: That's correct, yes, sir.
MR. WATERS: All right.
MR. WATERS: At this time, the state would offer State's 572 into evidence.
MR. GRIFFIN: No objection.
JUDGE NEWMAN: It's admitted without objection.
(TEXT MESSAGES MARKED AS STATE'S EXHIBIT NUMBER 572 WAS RECEIVED INTO EVIDENCE.)
MR. WATERS: All right, tell the jury. Where were you when these texts were taking place?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I was in a hotel.
MR. WATERS: Where? What city were you in?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Columbia, South Carolina.
MR. WATERS: And where were they?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I'm not exactly sure where they were when they first started, but they would have been somewhere between the hotel, a restaurant, and the ball field.
MR. WATERS: So, when you sent this text on June 6th at 11:41, you say: Y'all in the seat already? Correct?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Yes, that's what I did say.
ALEX MURDAUGH: And they say yes. Maggie says: Yes, we like these seats. Is that correct?
ALEX MURDAUGH: All right. That's correct. I didn't -- I didn't notice that. So, at that point in time, they are in the ballpark.
MR. WATERS: All right. Then you respond: Better than last night. They extended checkout to 1. Better come then. Is that correct?
ALEX MURDAUGH: That's what that text says. Yes, sir.
MR. WATERS: All right. So, you're back at the room. Is that right?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Yes, sir.
MR. WATERS: Later on your text after she asks you to bring a charger says: Muggy. You text: I'm dreading it. See you in a little bit. Is that correct?
ALEX MURDAUGH: That's what I said, yes, sir.
MR. WATERS: She responds: Don't come. And asks about the charger. Says: It's hot. Is that correct?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Mr. Waters, yes. I assume you were reading it exactly, so, yes, sir.
MR. WATERS: She eventually responds: Not crowded but not the place to come if you don't feel well. Very hot and muggy. We were inside sitting at the bar. Very nice indoors. Is that correct?
ALEX MURDAUGH: That's what it says. Yes, sir.
MR. WATERS: And then you respond: Dialed you by accident. They were making me leave. So, I'll see y'all in a few. Is that correct?
ALEX MURDAUGH: That's correct.
MR. WATERS: And who was making you leave where?
ALEX MURDAUGH: It was past checkout time at the hotel.
MR. WATERS: After you'd gotten the extended checkout, correct?
ALEX MURDAUGH: It appears so.
MR. WATERS: The reality is, is that you were in that hotel suffering from withdrawals when that's going on. Is that correct?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I was beginning to, yes, sir.
MR. WATERS: And the reality is, is that your wife and your son were on you that time period because they had found pills just a few weeks prior.
ALEX MURDAUGH: No, sir, that's not correct.
MR. WATERS: Let's talk about June 7th, okay? You got up that morning, or what time do you think you got up and left that day?
ALEX MURDAUGH: After having the benefit of looking at all these records -- I don't know what time I got up. In looking at records, obviously I'd been up for a while, but it appears I left shortly after noon.
MR. WATERS: And you went to work.
ALEX MURDAUGH: I did. Yes, sir.
MR. WATERS: And what were you working on at work?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I was working on, it's the Dominion Energy case was primarily what I was working on, that we had motions coming up later in that week. As I said earlier, it's -- I believed at the time that it was biggest case that I had ever been involved in, and there were motions coming up in that. I was preparing -- Danny had been -- Danny Henderson, my partner that was helping me with the civil case from the boat wreck, had been on me about getting a financial statement, and I finished doing that so that it could be given to Danny as primary -- is what I remember doing. Obviously I, I talked to Jeannie.
MR. WATERS: Okay, and what time did you leave?
ALEX MURDAUGH: And I'm sure I did some other routine office things, but I can't tell you what they are.
MR. WATERS: What time did you leave?
ALEX MURDAUGH: It appears that I left around a little after 6, from the records. I thought I'd left earlier than that, but, I mean, the records were -- seem to be pretty clear.
MR. WATERS: And you were, in fact, I think you said in both -- many of your interviews that you were working on the boat case that day as well, the financial declaration.
ALEX MURDAUGH: Yes, I, I prepared the financial declaration. I didn't do any work in this civil case. So, my work in, in that is what I did. I prepared the financial statement, which took me a little bit of time to, to get the details on that. But, I mean, that was the work I did on -- in preparation for the motions coming up.
MR. WATERS: What time did you get home?
ALEX MURDAUGH: June the 10th. In looking at the records, it looks like I got home a little before 7. 6:45, I think 6:40 something.
MR. WATERS: And you and Paul rode the property?
ALEX MURDAUGH: That's correct.
MR. WATERS: And you told law enforcement you shot a 22.
ALEX MURDAUGH: That's correct.
MR. WATERS: You told law enforcement that you never saw any Blackout.
ALEX MURDAUGH: That I'd never seen a Blackout?
MR. WATERS: That at that point in time when you and Paul were riding the property.
ALEX MURDAUGH: No, I did not see a Blackout.
MR. WATERS: Did you tell law enforcement that you and Paul were around, going around looking for hogs?
ALEX MURDAUGH: If I said that?
MR. WATERS: Correct.
ALEX MURDAUGH: And if, if I told them that -- you know, you don't look for hogs in the daytime, all right? That just -- the hogs are deep in the swamp in the daytime. So, I can tell you that Paul and I were not riding around looking for hogs, but what we were doing is we were going from food plot to food plot and we were looking for hog signs, all right? What hogs will do is come out and root and they tear up food plots. They tear up -- they tear up everything, and so that was one of the things we were doing. But we were not hog hunting. We were not looking for hogs. We did not have the 300 Blackout with us.
MR. WATERS: Paul didn't have the gun that he -- that Blackout that he favored with him while y'all rode the property?
ALEX MURDAUGH: The gun that's in here?
MR. WATERS: Any, any rifle.
ALEX MURDAUGH: There was no 300 Blackout with me and Paul.
MR. WATERS: All y'all had was a 22?
ALEX MURDAUGH: And that was a 22 pistol, but we didn't have that with us at that time riding the property.
MR. WATERS: Right, and you testified -- you've seen this Snapchat video of you and the tree. Is that right?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I have seen that.
MR. WATERS: You don't dispute the time of that video, do you?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I don't -- I don't even know what time that was taken, but whatever the gentleman came and testified to, I don't dispute that.
MR. WATERS: And what time -- well, let me ask you this. When did you go back to the house? Were you with Paul or were you by yourself?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I was by myself when I went back to the house. I went back to the house basically when Maggie got there.
MR. WATERS: When Maggie got there, all right, and where, where had Paul gone prior to that? Was he back at the house already, or he came after you?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Paul was at the shop when I went back to the house.
MR. WATERS: All right. So, you beat him to the house is what you're saying. Is that right?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I beat him to the house?
MR. WATERS: Yeah. You were at the house prior to him getting there.
ALEX MURDAUGH: Yes.
MR. WATERS: And you say Maggie was there at the same time, or there before you, or there after you?
ALEX MURDAUGH: That's what I'm not absolutely certain about. I believe that Maggie came through the kennel entrance. In going back and looking at these records and these times, I believe she came through the kennel entrance while Paul-Paul and I were at the shop. But either way, I got to the house very shortly after Maggie got there, and I believe that she came through, and I believe that I went right behind her.
MR. WATERS: And when did you take the shower that you've been talking about?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I believe when I first went in the house. I mean, I would have talked to Maggie for a second, but I'd seen her that morning, so I would --
MR. WATERS: You left your clothes on the floor.
ALEX MURDAUGH: I'm not sure. It makes sense to me, given what Blanca said, but I couldn't tell you one way or the other.
MR. WATERS: Now, what time was that, do you think?
ALEX MURDAUGH: In looking at the records, I think that was a little after 8.
MR. WATERS: And you're saying Maggie was already there at that point?
ALEX MURDAUGH: When I got to the house?
MR. WATERS: Yeah.
ALEX MURDAUGH: Yeah.
MR. WATERS: And what did you do after that?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I came back out, sat down on the couch to eat dinner.
MR. WATERS: What about -- what time was that?
ALEX MURDAUGH: A few minutes later. I mean, it didn't take me long to shower.
MR. WATERS: And you say Paul was already eating at that point?
ALEX MURDAUGH: He was.
MR. WATERS: You say he left first.
ALEX MURDAUGH: What I -- what I said is he got up and he finished eating, and he left our immediate vicinity. Now, I don't believe he left at that point, given what I've looked at, time records. I believe that he was around the house for a little bit longer.
MR. WATERS: And just to be clear again, all --
ALEX MURDAUGH: But I didn't see him.
MR. WATERS: -- all of this detail was -- people were hearing for the first time yesterday like we talked about before, correct?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Say that again.
MR. WATERS: All of this detail that we're going through right now is not anything that you related before. We're all hearing this for the first time yesterday.
MR. GRIFFIN: Objection, Your Honor. Fifth Amendment privilege.
JUDGE NEWMAN: Objection is overruled.
ALEX MURDAUGH: So, yes, I, I, I did not tell law enforcement. Actually, I don't think law enforcement asked me what I did when we first went to the house, but I clearly lied to law enforcement about what I -- what I said yesterday.
MR. WATERS: Okay, and all of this, the last time you saw your -- supposedly saw your wife and child, all of this detail, you as a lawyer and a prosecutor didn't think that was important to offer on your own?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Well, I think it's important.
MR. WATERS: You told this jury how cooperative you were been -- you've been and how much information you wanted to provide, but you left out the most important parts, didn't you?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I left out -- I left out that. I sure did.
MR. WATERS: You don't consider that one of the most important parts?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I think it's important.
MR. WATERS: All right, tell me about what happens next. Tell me about how Maggie and Paul end up out down at the kennels.
ALEX MURDAUGH: I'm not -- I'm still not absolutely certain exactly how they ended up at the kennel, but in looking at the timeframes and looking at the GPS points, I think I pretty well know because I wasn't sure if Maggie had walked to the kennels or ridden to the kennels, and I wasn't exactly sure how Paul-Paul got there, but I'm all but certain that Maggie and Paul went to the kennel together.
MR. WATERS: All right, and what was the discussion? You said that they were going down there, but you didn't want to go. Is that right?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Maggie, what I said is Maggie asked me to go to the kennels with her, and I wasn't going to go. I said I'm not going to go.
MR. WATERS: How long after she left did you supposedly go down there?
ALEX MURDAUGH: It, it was very quickly.
MR. WATERS: And what did you tell this jury in all these new facts as to the reason you changed your mind? Why did you change your mind?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I had just had a shower. Number -- when you go to the kennel, you always end up -- at the shop, the dogs are running around. You're always going to end up doing more work, all right? It's hot. I'd already had a shower. I didn't want to go to the kennel.
MR. WATERS: I understand that. So, why did you change your mind?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Because Maggie wanted me to.
MR. WATERS: So, you thought about it for a few minutes and then decided to go down there?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I don't think I sat and contemplated am I going to go. Am I going to go? I think that like many things Maggie wanted me to do, if I didn't do it at first, I ended up doing it.
MR. WATERS: And you took the golf cart down to the kennels?
ALEX MURDAUGH: That's correct.
MR. WATERS: How long did that take to drive from the house down to the kennels in the golf cart?
ALEX MURDAUGH: You know, in looking at the records from OnStar and all of that, it seems to take about a minute in the --
MR. WATERS: Golf cart?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Nope, in the -- in the Suburban. So, I would think it's probably, in looking at those speeds of, what, 20, 24 miles an hour, I would think it takes double that. I think it takes a couple minutes.
MR. WATERS: All right, so you'll concede at least a couple minutes to drive down, correct.
ALEX MURDAUGH: I think. Yes.
MR. WATERS: In a golf cart?
ALEX MURDAUGH: That's correct.
MR. WATERS: When the kennel video was going on, had you arrived before that?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I believe that I had.
MR. WATERS: Okay. How long do you think you had been there before that was going on?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Not long because when I got there, in looking at the kennel video, you can see Paul-Paul standing in the kennel. When I got there, Paul-Paul wasn't standing in the kennel.
MR. WATERS: He wasn't in the kennel anymore?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Well, he wasn't in the kennel like he is in the video.
MR. WATERS: Right.
ALEX MURDAUGH: He's, I mean, he's probably -- and I don't know exactly, but I know he wasn't in the kennel. He was, like, in the driveway. He was fooling with Cash. He was in the driveway, but, like, close to the kennel but not in the kennel like he is in the video.
MR. WATERS: So, the video happened after that, according to you?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Video happened after I got there?
MR. WATERS: After you first saw Paul, you're saying he wasn't in the kennel. When did the video happen?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I believe that to be the case.
MR. WATERS: Okay. After you had arrived. Is that correct?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Yes.
MR. WATERS: And --
ALEX MURDAUGH: Very shortly after I arrived, but after I arrived.
MR. WATERS: And then you tell Maggie at that time that you were going to go to Almeda?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I did not.
MR. WATERS: Did y'all discuss it at all, according to you, to these new facts you're testifying to?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I don't believe so.
MR. WATERS: Did you have any conversation with her?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Oh, yeah.
MR. WATERS: Had you had a conversation -- did you have a conversation with Paul about the dogs, about Cash's tail prior to going down there?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Prior to going down there? I don't -- did I have a conversation with Paul --
MR. WATERS: Yes, you talk to him --
ALEX MURDAUGH: -- about Cash?
MR. WATERS: -- about Cash and some problem with his tail prior to going down there? Did you have any knowledge of that prior to going down there?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I'm not sure. As I sit here today, I, I don't recall that, but I don't -- I don't -- I don't think so.
MR. WATERS: When you first arrived in the golf cart, where did you pull up to?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I pulled up right where Maggie was.
MR. WATERS: Which is where?
ALEX MURDAUGH: She was standing in the spot where she could see in between the chicken coop and the storage room of the kennels where the dogs were, back up in those plant pines behind the kennels to the left of the chicken coop.
MR. WATERS: And what'd you do after that?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I went back to the house.
MR. WATERS: No. I mean, did you -- you pulled up. You get out of the, the golf cart.
ALEX MURDAUGH: Oh, no. When I pulled up, I stayed on the golf cart.
MR. WATERS: Stayed on the golf cart. How long did you stay on the golf cart?
ALEX MURDAUGH: How ever long I was down there.
MR. WATERS: The entire time?
ALEX MURDAUGH: No. I got off to take the chicken from Bubba.
MR. WATERS: All right. So, how long were you down there before you took the chicken off of Bubba?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Very short time.
MR. WATERS: Like what?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Couple minutes.
MR. WATERS: And what were you doing during the couple of minutes before you got over there to deal with Bubba?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Talking to Mags.
MR. WATERS: And what did y'all talk about?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I don't know.
MR. WATERS: You don't remember?
ALEX MURDAUGH: No, sir. I do know that Maggie was very concerned about Paul-Paul and --
MR. WATERS: You remember a lot of detail about all these new facts, but you don't remember what you talked about?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I don't remember the exact details of what we talked about. I believe that at that time, we may have talked about Paul-Paul, but I'm not certain.
MR. WATERS: Were you withdrawing at this time?
ALEX MURDAUGH: At this time, no, sir.
MR. WATERS: You weren't withdrawing at all?
ALEX MURDAUGH: No. No. I would only withdraw when I didn't have pills.
MR. WATERS: And you're saying you had pills?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Yes.
MR. WATERS: Down there for a couple minutes, I think you said now, before you get off the golf cart.
ALEX MURDAUGH: About. Yes, sir.
MR. WATERS: Okay, and where do you go at that point?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I take the chicken from Bubba.
MR. WATERS: So, you get up.
ALEX MURDAUGH: Well, I mean, Bubba's, you know, Bubba's come out there with this chicken. I mean, he's showing us, hey, I caught this chicken, and I take the chicken from Bubba.
MR. WATERS: So, Bubba came up to the golf cart?
ALEX MURDAUGH: He came up by the golf cart and came up to Maggie and I, which I was on the golf cart. She's by the golf cart. I mean, he's not coming to the golf cart, but he's coming to us.
MR. WATERS: Is this during the kennel video or is this after the kennel video?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Well, no. You hear Maggie say he's got a chicken.
MR. WATERS: Okay.
ALEX MURDAUGH: That's what she's talking about is Bubba caught a chicken.
MR. WATERS: All right. All right. So, is the kennel video still going on before you go get the chicken? I mean, you've heard it, correct? You've heard it in this courtroom.
ALEX MURDAUGH: I don't know exactly. I don't know exactly, but in -- close time into Bubba coming out of those woods with the chicken, I got up and took the chicken from him.
MR. WATERS: Let me ask you this. Were the dogs barking and carrying on or going out into the woods or acting like they sensed somebody was around that they didn't know?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Were the dog's acting like there was somebody around that they didn't know?
MR. WATERS: Yeah, like dogs do.
MR. WATERS: No, they weren't.
ALEX MURDAUGH: There was nobody --
MR. WATERS: There was nobody.
ALEX MURDAUGH: -- around that the dogs didn't know.
MR. WATERS: Dogs didn't, didn't, to your indication, sense anything out of the ordinary. They were just chasing after the guinea.
ALEX MURDAUGH: There was nobody else around.
MR. WATERS: Good.
ALEX MURDAUGH: For them to sense.
MR. WATERS: You've heard the kennel video. Would you agree with me that it lasts for about 50 seconds?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I agree with that.
MR. WATERS: So, it would have ended around 8:45 and 45 seconds. Would you agree with that?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I do agree with that.
MR. WATERS: Did you have the chicken out of Bubba's mouth at the end of the kennel video, or did it take longer than that?
ALEX MURDAUGH: You know, I can't remember exactly when in the video he came up, up with the chicken, but I would have had to -- I would have had the chicken out of his mouth within 10, 15 seconds of Maggie saying he's got a chicken.
MR. WATERS: And so then what did you do?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I put the chicken up.
MR. WATERS: All right, how long did that take? Did you get out of the golf cart to do that?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I did.
MR. WATERS: And you had to go walk to where it was?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Well, yeah. I mean, it -- a few feet, but I, I, I did that, yes.
MR. WATERS: All right. So, how long did that take?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Seconds.
MR. WATERS: We're at 8:46 now. How long did that take?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Seconds.
MR. WATERS: Just seconds. All right, and what did you do after that?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Got back on the golf cart.
MR. WATERS: What did you do after that?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I left.
MR. WATERS: You left.
ALEX MURDAUGH: Now, did I leave --
MR. WATERS: Jumped on the golf cart and left.
ALEX MURDAUGH: Well, that's what I was getting ready to say. Did I get on the golf cart and leave that second? Probably not. But did I get on the golf cart and leave very quickly after that? I did.
MR. WATERS: I think you testified yesterday I got out of there.
ALEX MURDAUGH: I did.
MR. WATERS: Why did you get out of there so quick, Mr. Murdaugh?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Because it was chaotic, it was hot, and I was getting ready to do exactly what I didn't want to do.
MR. WATERS: You were getting ready to do what you didn't want to do.
ALEX MURDAUGH: That's correct.
MR. WATERS: Okay.
ALEX MURDAUGH: I was getting ready to sweat. I was getting ready to work. I went back to the air conditioning.
MR. WATERS: So, did you say goodbye, according to your new story?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Did I say goodbye?
MR. WATERS: Yeah. Did you talk to them at all, or did you just get the chicken and put it on there and jump on there and just take it?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Oh, no, I wouldn't have just gone off. I mean, I would have said I'm leaving.
MR. WATERS: Okay.
ALEX MURDAUGH: Did I say goodbye or bye?
MR. WATERS: And again -- go ahead.
ALEX MURDAUGH: But, I mean, there would have been some -- you know, there, there would have been some exchange. I'm not staying here.
MR. WATERS: Well, what was that exchange? I mean, you've had such a photographic memory about these new stories. What, what, what happened here?
ALEX MURDAUGH: It's not -- I can't tell you the exact words.
MR. WATERS: You don't remember your conversation after you put that chicken up. Did y'all talk about the chicken?
ALEX MURDAUGH: No, I don't think we did.
MR. WATERS: Did you talk with Paul about Cash's tail?
ALEX MURDAUGH: After the chicken?
MR. WATERS: Yeah.
ALEX MURDAUGH: No, I know I didn't do that.
MR. WATERS: Did you tell Maggie I'm going to go check on M?
ALEX MURDAUGH: At that point, no, I don't, I don't think --
MR. WATERS: Did you tell --
ALEX MURDAUGH: -- I did.
MR. WATERS: -- Maggie, uh, it's hot out here. I think I'll go back.
ALEX MURDAUGH: I certainly would have said something to that effect.
MR. WATERS: All right. So, unlike everything else from the new story, you just can't recall what, what that would have been.
ALEX MURDAUGH: Well, you know, I mean, you're making that categorization. I think there's other things about that that I can't remember. But if the question is can I remember exactly what words I used when I gave Maggie some salutation when I'm leaving, I can't tell you what those were. But it would have been something to the effect of I'm leaving.
MR. WATERS: Okay, but you would concede that there was at least some conversation, that you wouldn't have just put the chicken on there and jumped and ran back to the golf cart and taken off?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Without talking to Maggie, I would have never done that.
MR. WATERS: All right, so we'll -- let's -- you want to say a minute? That sound about right?
ALEX MURDAUGH: A minute for what?
MR. WATERS: To have just whatever interaction it took for you to then, according to your new story, drive back to --
ALEX MURDAUGH: No, sir. It, it wouldn't have taken me a minute.
MR. WATERS: Not a minute.
ALEX MURDAUGH: I would have said -- it would have been I'm leaving. I'll see you in a minute.
MR. WATERS: So, 30 seconds.
ALEX MURDAUGH: I don't think it would have taken 30 seconds, but, I mean, I'm fine with you using whatever time you want to apply, but I don't think it --
MR. WATERS: I'm just asking about --
ALEX MURDAUGH: -- would have taken that long.
MR. WATERS: -- real life here and how people interact with one another, Mr. Murdaugh. I mean, so what you're telling this jury -- I'll call you're fuzzy on these kind of details -- is that you jetted down there, you dealt with the chicken, and jetted right back.
MR. GRIFFIN: Objection.
ALEX MURDAUGH: No, sir.
MR. GRIFFIN: To the statement and not a question.
ALEX MURDAUGH: No, sir. I didn't -- I didn't -- I didn't jet down there and I didn't jet back. I got up -- after Maggie asked me to leave, after, after Maggie asked me to go with her and I didn't, I got up. I went and got on the golf cart. I drove down there. I did what I did. I said I'm leaving or something to those words, and I went back.
MR. WATERS: All right. Well, if it's about 8:46, kennel video ends at 8:45 and 45 seconds and it's about 8:46, will you at least concede that maybe it was about a minute before you got on that golf cart and headed back, just reasonable real life?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Maybe. I mean, I don't think it was that long but maybe. Sure.
MR. WATERS: So.
ALEX MURDAUGH: But I don't think it was that long. I mean, --
MR. WATERS: Well, how long --
ALEX MURDAUGH: -- exactly what I thought --
MR. WATERS: -- do you think it was since you arrived?
ALEX MURDAUGH: -- was going to be going on at that kennel, why I didn't want to go there to begin with is exactly what was going on.
MR. WATERS: Yeah. Well, I get that. Again --
ALEX MURDAUGH: And I left.
MR. WATERS: Are these also convenient facts in your new story that have to fit with the timeline now that that evidence has been thrown in your face?
ALEX MURDAUGH: No, sir.
MR. WATERS: Does that sound like real life to you, that you jet down there and jet back, Mr. Murdaugh?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Mr. Waters, as I just told you, I didn't get on my golf cart and jet down there. I didn't jet back. Those are your --
MR. WATERS: The reason why you have to be so --
ALEX MURDAUGH: Hang on now, Mr. Waters.
MR. WATERS: -- fussy about these details --
ALEX MURDAUGH: Just a second.
MR. GRIFFIN: Your Honor, he should be allowed to finish his answer before another question is presented.
JUDGE NEWMAN: Yes, sir.
ALEX MURDAUGH: I'm, I'm answering your question.
JUDGE NEWMAN: Just a moment.
ALEX MURDAUGH: I'm sorry, Judge.
JUDGE NEWMAN: Are you responding to the last question?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Yes, sir.
JUDGE NEWMAN: Go ahead.
ALEX MURDAUGH: I'm responding to your question and, and, and you're using words that I'm not using, and I'm -- that's your categorization.
MR. WATERS: Do you agree I'm entitled ask my questions to you, sir?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Absolutely.
MR. WATERS: Okay.
ALEX MURDAUGH: And I'm going to answer them. All I'm saying is I'm, I'm taking issue with the manner in which you're changing what I'm saying and --
MR. WATERS: You disagree this is a new story? You disagree with that characterization?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Yes. This is, this is the first time that this is being told openly.
MR. WATERS: And you disagree to my characterization that you've got a photographic memory about the details that have to fit now that you know these facts, but you're fuzzy on the other stuff that complicates that. You disagree with that?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I do disagree with that. I think that I, I think that I have --
MR. WATERS: How about this?
ALEX MURDAUGH: -- a good memory about a lot of things on this.
MR. WATERS: How about this? We've got kennel video ending at 8:45:45, so just to take care of the chicken, put it up, I want to say 8:47, somewhere around there. I think you said somewhere around there. Is that fair, just to do whatever you need to do and get on that cart before you head back?
ALEX MURDAUGH: The kennel video ended at 8:45?
MR. WATERS: And 45 seconds.
ALEX MURDAUGH: 8:46, it certainly could have been 8:47 before I left out of there.
MR. WATERS: Okay.
ALEX MURDAUGH: I think it was sooner than that, but it could have been.
MR. WATERS: That's 60 seconds, 75 seconds, correct?
ALEX MURDAUGH: If it ends at 8:45 and 45 seconds, it's a minute and 15 seconds.
MR. WATERS: You characterized it yesterday as I got out of there, right?
ALEX MURDAUGH: That is exactly what I did.
MR. WATERS: All right. So if we're at 8:47, I think you said, then giving you the benefit of the doubt, it's 2 minutes to get up back to the house, correct?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Approximately.
MR. WATERS: And when you got back to the house, where did you park the golf cart?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Same place I've gotten it from: right where Mark Ball testified that it was.
MR. WATERS: And what door did you go in?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I would have gone in the front door.
MR. WATERS: And if you left around 8:47 and it took about 2 minutes to get up to the house, what time would that make it, Mr. Murdaugh?
ALEX MURDAUGH: If I left at 8:47 and if it took me 2 minutes, that would make it 8:49.
MR. WATERS: 8:49. You testified you went inside and the TV's on, right?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I did go inside and the TV was on.
MR. WATERS: Okay, and you laid down. Is that right?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I did.
MR. WATERS: Before you said you'd been napping for an hour or so, or napping that entire time, and now you, you laid down on the couch.
ALEX MURDAUGH: That's correct.
MR. WATERS: And maybe dozed for a second.
ALEX MURDAUGH: Maybe.
MR. WATERS: According to your new story. How long did you doze?
ALEX MURDAUGH: If, if I dozed, extremely short time.
MR. WATERS: Extremely short time because you would agree with me that at 9:02, you're up and moving, according to the data.
ALEX MURDAUGH: I agree that according to that data, my phone's recording steps at whatever time it is, 9:02 something.
MR. WATERS: How long did it take you? If you're at the house at 8:49, how long before you went and laid on the couch?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I would have gone straight to the couch probably. I may have gone by the sink or, you know, I may have gotten a spit cup, but it would have been basically straight to the couch.
MR. WATERS: Straight to the couch.
ALEX MURDAUGH: Yes, sir.
MR. WATERS: And you're telling this jury that that's what happened, and you were back at the house at 8:49, and you lay down on the couch and dozed for a second, and then you were up with more steps in a shorter time period than you had done all day.
ALEX MURDAUGH: Well, I mean, your number is 849. What I'm telling this jury is that I went down there and when I took that chicken from Bubba, I would have said something to Mags, got back on that golf cart, and I drove back to my house. After getting back to my house, I went inside and in short order I went to the couch. That's what I'm telling this jury.
MR. WATERS: You go anywhere else in the house?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Mr. Waters, I can't tell you specifically about that. I, I don't think so, but I may have.
MR. WATERS: Did you have that tan Blackout and the 12 gauge shotgun on that golf cart when you drove down there?
MR. WATERS: You didn't?
MR. WATERS: Did you see them when you were down there?
MR. WATERS: No. So, we got you back around 8:49 and you're leaving at 9:02, correct? You didn't see any weapons down there. You just happened to be back here. You didn't hear anything at all. Did you hear anything at all, Mr. Murdaugh, during that time period?
ALEX MURDAUGH: No, I did not.
MR. WATERS: You didn't? Did you tell law enforcement that you thought you heard them pull up? Didn't you tell law enforcement that?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I did think they had pulled up.
MR. WATERS: All right, so that was that. You did think that?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Yes.
MR. WATERS: All right. So, now you're saying there was a car pulling up?
MR. WATERS: You didn't testify to that yesterday, did you, in your new version of events that --
MR. WATERS: -- about a truck?
ALEX MURDAUGH: No, I, I don't. This was -- I don't believe there was a car pulling up.
MR. WATERS: Okay, but that's what you told law enforcement, didn't you?
ALEX MURDAUGH: No. I told law enforcement that I thought they had pulled up.
MR. WATERS: Okay, all right, but you're saying you couldn't hear Blackout shots supposedly but you could hear that, correct?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I didn't say I couldn't hear Blackout shots, but I'm saying that I thought when, when I got up from taking a nap, if I took a nap, but when I got up from laying down, as I was getting ready to go to my mom's, there was a point in time where I thought Maggie and Paul had come back.
MR. WATERS: You also told them that you thought you heard a wildcat and maybe it was a person or something like that as well.
ALEX MURDAUGH: No, that's not what I said.
MR. WATERS: What did you say then?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I said when I went outside that -- there's a house cat. That's what -- that's gone wild, and he hangs around. He goes from hanging around the shop -- goes from hanging around the house different times. You might -- and there'd be times you don't see him. And he had been around the house and when I went outside, I believe that cat was over there.
MR. WATERS: Okay, and you made a point of mentioning that --
ALEX MURDAUGH: I never --
MR. WATERS: -- to law enforcement.
ALEX MURDAUGH: I never thought it was a person.
MR. WATERS: But you made a point of mentioning that to law enforcement, correct?
ALEX MURDAUGH: In the course of discussing it, I did tell them that.
MR. WATERS: But you never told them all this new story that you've constructed in light of this trial. Is that correct?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I did not tell them that I went to the kennel. I lied about that.
MR. WATERS: And at the same time, you also looked at this jury and tried to tell them that you've been cooperative in this investigation.
ALEX MURDAUGH: Other than lying to them about going to the kennel, I was cooperative in every aspect of this investigation.
MR. WATERS: Very cooperative except for maybe the most important fact of all, that you were at the murder scene with the victims just minutes before they died, right? Right?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I did not tell them that I went to the kennel.
JUDGE NEWMAN: Madame Forelady and members of the jury, we will take a break at this time for about 15 minutes. Talking to the jury. Please go to the jury room. Please do not discuss the case.
(The jury left the courtroom.)
JUDGE NEWMAN: You may step down. Please do not discuss your testimony with anyone during the break.
ALEX MURDAUGH: Yes, sir.
JUDGE NEWMAN: We'll be in recess for 15 minutes.
(A recess was taken.)
JUDGE NEWMAN: I remind everyone in the courtroom there is to be no reaction to the testimony. No jeers, cheers, no reaction at all by anyone in the courtroom. If you will bring the jury.
MR. GRIFFIN: Your Honor, may I put something on the record?
JUDGE NEWMAN: There will be an opportunity to put something on the record. If it's regarding an objection, it will be done later.
MR. GRIFFIN: Yes, sir.
(The jury entered the courtroom.)
COURT BAILIFF: The jury is present, sir.
JUDGE NEWMAN: Thank you. You may proceed.
MR. WATERS: May it please the court, Your Honor?
BY MR. WATERS:
MR. WATERS: When you picked up that chicken, was there any blood on it?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I don't believe so.
MR. WATERS: Did you wash her hands at all?
ALEX MURDAUGH: At that point in time, I don't believe that I did.
MR. WATERS: When you say you were -- you said Maggie was near, nearby you. Is that correct?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Right by me.
MR. WATERS: Was she messing with the hose at all?
ALEX MURDAUGH: At that time, no, she was not.
MR. WATERS: Did she mess with it the entire time that you were there according to your new facts today?
ALEX MURDAUGH: While I was there, she did not touch -- she, she was not fooling with the hose at all.
MR. WATERS: All right. I'm going to try to move this thing along. I'm going to put up on the screen State's 519, which is the condensed timeline.
MR. WATERS: Could I have that computer input, please, 519?
MR. WATERS: All right, can you see that up there, Mr. Murdaugh?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Yes.
MR. WATERS: All right. I'm on page 5. You see that cell tower time there?
ALEX MURDAUGH: That's up on my screen?
MR. WATERS: Yes.
ALEX MURDAUGH: I do see that.
MR. WATERS: Would you agree with me that it reflects the cell tower activity on your phone from 6:52 to 9:04?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I do agree with that.
MR. WATERS: Let me ask you this, Mr. Murdaugh. Did you take the phone with you down to the kennels according to the new facts that you testified to yesterday and today?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I must not have.
MR. WATERS: You must not have?
ALEX MURDAUGH: If this is accurate, no, sir.
MR. WATERS: Is that typical for you?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Sure it is. Absolutely.
MR. WATERS: Okay. Tell me why that's typical.
ALEX MURDAUGH: If and when I'm going -- now, it wouldn't be -- it, it would be unusual if I was going out for any extended period of time. I was going -- even on the property, if I was going somewhere for an extended period of time, I would usually have my phone. But for me to go, knowing that I'm going to the kennel and coming right back, that's not unusual at all. I mean, there's very -- you've heard the testimony about the service out there. The service is terrible. You have to be in a particular spot.
MR. WATERS: All right.
ALEX MURDAUGH: And you have to find a spot.
MR. WATERS: So, the answer is you don't know whether you took it down there?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I believe that I probably didn't, based on this data.
MR. WATERS: Based on this, but unlike your photographic memory about other things, you don't remember whether you had your phone on you?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Mr. Waters, I -- I've never claimed to have a photographic memory, but I do not specifically remember if I had my phone that night. I do not dispute it based on these -- on this data, and that's not unusual for me.
MR. WATERS: Just like you don't remember, according to your new story, the last conversation you had with them?
ALEX MURDAUGH: No, I remember. I remember having the -- my last conversation with Maggie.
MR. WATERS: Looking at this screen, you have the map up there on page 6, and it shows you arriving back at Moselle at 6:42. You don't dispute that now. Is that correct?
ALEX MURDAUGH: No. That's, that's what the -- this data appears to show.
MR. WATERS: Looking at the data, moving on to page 7, you have Paul arriving about 7:04. Is that correct? You don't have any reason to dispute that?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Well, that's what it says, he arrives at 4127 Moselle Roads, which is the address of the shop. The house is 4157. I believe that Paul actually got there a little bit before that, but I think it's approximately accurate. I think Paul got there a little bit closer to 7:00.
MR. WATERS: You would agree that's the earliest data point that reflects his presence at Moselle.
ALEX MURDAUGH: If that's what the records show.
MR. WATERS: You don't dispute that?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I don't dispute that that's the earliest data point. But, again, I believe he got there a little bit earlier, and I, I tried to look at these records to see if I could -- if, if that could be refuted, and I believe he got there a little closer to 7 or a little bit before 7.
MR. WATERS: That's a good point. You looked at these records a lot before you had your testimony yesterday or today, didn't you, Mr. Murdaugh?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I've looked at these records other than the OnStar records that just came when they were provided to me. Sure I've looked at them.
MR. WATERS: Right here we have some steps on your phone: 29 steps, and down at the bottom we have 89 steps. Is that consistent with you and Paul were together on the property?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I mean, sure. We, we would go to different locations on the property. Sometimes we would get out; sometimes we won't. We'd get out and walk around. We'd look at stuff. We'd do things. For example, you saw me messing with the tree. There would be other ones. We may get out and look at a feeder, maybe other ones. We'd get out and look at hog signs where hogs are rooting. So, it would be perfectly consistent with what Paul-Paul and I were doing that day.
MR. WATERS: And 8:05 to 8:09, would you agree that that's the last steps recorded on your phone before 9:02 where you become a very busy bee?
ALEX MURDAUGH: If that's with these records show. I see I took steps. These records show I took steps between 8:05 and 8:09.
MR. WATERS: So, would you concede then that you're at the house around 8:09?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I would have thought so, yes.
MR. WATERS: Okay, and you said Paul was already back at that point?
ALEX MURDAUGH: No. I, I, I said just the opposite.
MR. WATERS: When did he get there?
ALEX MURDAUGH: All right, you talking about when I left the shop and went to the house and Maggie was there?
MR. WATERS: Yes, when you ate dinner.
ALEX MURDAUGH: No. As I said earlier, Paul and I were at the shop. Maggie got home. I left Paul at the shop, and I went to the house, and I think you were saying that I said I met Paul at the house, and that incorrect.
MR. WATERS: Paul was still down at the shop when you were at the house, correct?
ALEX MURDAUGH: When I first went to the house, Paul was still at the shop, I believe.
MR. WATERS: All right, and was Maggie there when you arrived at the house?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Yes. I believe she was.
MR. WATERS: And 8:09 is the last steps that you have on this phone before 9:02, correct?
ALEX MURDAUGH: That's what the data shows.
MR. WATERS: Looking now at page 15 -- sorry, page 14, your steps that you say when you got to the house. It's 8:09. Paul's still down at the shop. Don't these records reflect that Paul is pinging the GPS data at the house at 8:08?
ALEX MURDAUGH: This record appears to show Paul at the house at 8:08.
MR. WATERS: All right. So, those records don't fit with the new story that you testified yesterday and today. Is that correct?
ALEX MURDAUGH: No. I, I don't, I don't believe even right now, Mr. Waters, that that's right. I'm not saying -- what you're doing is you're taking 8:09 and saying that I'm at the house and, I mean, that may or may not be right. But what I'm saying is, is that when Maggie came through, I left and I believe that Paul stayed at the shop. Now, did Paul come right behind me? I'm not sure, but when I, when I left him, I believe that -- when I left to go to the house, I believe that Paul stayed at the shop for a minute.
MR. WATERS: When you got to the house, did you put your phone down?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I'm sure I did.
MR. WATERS: Did you put it in your car, the Suburban?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Did I put it in the Suburban?
MR. WATERS: When you got back in the house, did you put it in the Suburban? Was the Suburban parked out front?
ALEX MURDAUGH: The Suburban would have parked -- been parked wherever I parked it.
MR. WATERS: Which is where?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I believe on the side.
MR. WATERS: Okay, and did you put the phone, your phone in the Suburban?
ALEX MURDAUGH: At that time? No, I did not.
MR. WATERS: Where did you put it?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I'm not sure where I put it.
MR. WATERS: Not sure about that either?
ALEX MURDAUGH: No, I'm not sure. When I went in the house, I'm not sure where I put my phone. I would think that I, you know, I would think that I put it down somewhere probably by the couch.
MR. WATERS: Didn't you testify yesterday when you were being asked by your, your lawyer about that pause at Almeda when you were leaving, and you had a very specific recollection of your phone, it falling down in the crevice, and you had to pick it up and get it out? Do you remember testifying to that?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I do.
MR. WATERS: But you don't remember what you did with your phone when you got back at this point?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Mr. Waters, those are two distinct different things. I'm, I'm coming in the house, and I put my phone down. I don't have a routine spot that I put it in right on this corner or right there. You know, I would assume that when I went in the house, I put it somewhere either on the table you go by going to, going to the couch. I may have taken it to the bathroom --
MR. WATERS: That console story --
ALEX MURDAUGH: -- when I took a shower. It may have taken me taken me a, a few minutes to go to the shower. So, I can't --
MR. WATERS: That console story --
ALEX MURDAUGH: -- exactly where I put it.
MR. WATERS: That console story is an awful specific recollection when you need it to try to make the new story which this jury is hearing and everyone's hearing yesterday and today with the data, correct, but you're awful fuzzy on the more important things aren't you, Mr. Murdaugh?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Which, which question -- here, I'll answer the first one first. No.
MR. WATERS: Answer the first one first, the second one second.
ALEX MURDAUGH: I don't believe that's convenient. I disagree with your categorization of the description.
MR. WATERS: All right, but you, you remember the console story, but you don't remember where you put your phone, whether or not you took it down to the kennels, whether it was in -- you put it in the Suburban. You don't remember any of that, but, dadgummit, you remember that console story, correct?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I don't remember the console story but, you know, in that Suburban -- and it's not the first time that it happened, but when that phone got down there, you had to go to great efforts to get it out, and you couldn't just reach over there and get it out.
MR. WATERS: All right, you say when you got to the house that Maggie was already there?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Yes.
MR. WATERS: And you saw your last steps were at 8:09?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Well, that's what you saw when my -- this data recorded my last steps, but -- because you heard this testimony, too, Mr. Waters. You know that's not a precise -- that -- that's not a precise -- you heard the testimony. You know what it is.
MR. WATERS: Well, how did you get back to the house? Would you remind us?
ALEX MURDAUGH: From the shop?
MR. WATERS: Yeah.
ALEX MURDAUGH: I went in the white pickup truck.
MR. WATERS: Went in the white pickup truck, and when you got in the house, where did you go?
ALEX MURDAUGH: We've already discussed this. I, I, I took a shower. Whether I did things for a moment before I went to the shower -- I'm sure I talked to Maggie because she'd gone, and if she came through the kennel, which I believe she did, we only talked briefly. So, I would have talked to her, but I would have quickly gone to take a shower.
MR. WATERS: Going over to page 16, you would agree with me that the data reflects Maggie started logging steps and her phone disconnecting from her Mercedes around 8:17, correct?
MR. WATERS: I agree at 8:17 her phone ends connection to her Mercedes.
MR. WATERS: And starts logging steps?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I don't see that, but I don't dispute it.
MR. WATERS: Well, you see the purple line I'm talking about? It disconnected from the Mercedes.
ALEX MURDAUGH: I do see.
MR. WATERS: When you go down --
ALEX MURDAUGH: I see the -- I see where you're talking about. So, yeah, I see at 8:17 her phone starts logging steps. I agree with that.
MR. WATERS: Okay. So, would you concede that that appears to be when she arrived?
ALEX MURDAUGH: No. I, I don't believe that's when she arrived. I believe that -- I mean, it was very normal for Maggie when she'd be driving to jump out of the car, run inside, go to the bathroom, do things, and either send me or Paul or go back or Buster or go back to her car herself and unplug her phone. So, I mean, I agree that's when her phone's unplugged, but I believe that Maggie got to the house a little bit before that. That's the whole reason why Paul and I went to the house.
MR. WATERS: Okay. You're saying that Paul arrived after Maggie, is what you're saying, at the house.
ALEX MURDAUGH: I believe so, yes, sir. That's what I recall and, and Paul arrived at the house after I arrived at the house, I believe. And if Paul got to the house around about that same time, he wasn't inside with Maggie and I -- when I --
MR. WATERS: At 8:08?
ALEX MURDAUGH: -- went to get to the shower.
MR. WATERS: You say if Paul got -- he wasn't inside with Maggie and you? Is that what you said? Mr. Murdaugh, is that what you said?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Sir?
MR. WATERS: You said if Paul got to the house prior to that, he wasn't inside with you and Maggie. Is that what you said?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I'm saying he was not inside when I went to get in the shower.
MR. WATERS: Okay, but again looking back at this data point, 8:08, we see a little blue dot right there in the middle of the house, don't we?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Yeah. That's what these records show. And it also shows that circle that folks testified to, what the range of -- what it could --
MR. WATERS: Yeah. Absolutely.
ALEX MURDAUGH: -- be within. So, I mean, it clearly could be --
MR. WATERS: Well, look at that circle. Look at what's right in the middle of that circle. Almost like somebody drew a circle around the house. Would you agree?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Yeah, I do, but also in that circle is where you would park a truck if you pulled up.
MR. WATERS: All right.
ALEX MURDAUGH: So, you know -- and I'm not saying that he wasn't in the house at some point in time there, but when I went to get in the shower, he wasn't in the house, and he very easily could have been there and been parked in the yard.
MR. WATERS: All right. You agree at the bottom of page 16 about 8:30, Maggie tracking steps again on her phone?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Yes, sir. That's what the data shows.
MR. WATERS: And do you agree with me that about 8:38, Paul's phone shows him back up at the kennels?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Well, yes, sir, yes, I agree that at 8:38 -- let me see which way. It's hard for me to figure out which one of these rings -- but at 8:38 it shows Paul in whichever one of those rings is 56 meters wide, and I have no reason to believe he wasn't at the kennel.
MR. WATERS: And at 8:44:55, we've already gone through this, but that's the kennel video, right?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Yes, sir. That's correct.
MR. WATERS: And you would agree with me that it lasts about 50 seconds, correct?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Yes, sir. I agree with that.
MR. WATERS: And you would agree with me, moving on to page 19, that both Maggie and Paul's phones locked for the final time 8:49?
ALEX MURDAUGH: That's what the data shows.
MR. WATERS: After that, you would agree that Maggie's phone around 8:53 shows some steps being taken?
ALEX MURDAUGH: That's what the data shows, yes, sir.
MR. WATERS: Data then shows carrying it. That's what it shows. Is that correct?
ALEX MURDAUGH: That is correct.
MR. WATERS: And then you would agree with me that from 9:02 to 9:06, your phone finally comes to life and starts showing a lot of steps?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I do agree with that.
MR. WATERS: What were you doing?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I was getting ready to go to my mom's house.
MR. WATERS: Getting ready to go? I thought you'd taken a shower already. You were just laying down on the couch. What, what all do you need to do to get ready to go to your mom's house?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I mean, there wasn't anything to get ready in that aspect.
MR. WATERS: There wasn't anything to get ready.
ALEX MURDAUGH: I was getting ready to go; I was preparing to leave.
MR. WATERS: Doing what?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I don't know if I got up, went to the bathroom. I don't know. I can't tell you exactly what I was doing.
MR. WATERS: And that's far more steps in a short time period than any time prior, as you've seen from testimony in this case. So, what, what were you so busy doing?
ALEX MURDAUGH: That's --
MR. WATERS: Going to the bathroom?
ALEX MURDAUGH: No, I don't, I don't think that I --
MR. WATERS: Get on the treadmill?
ALEX MURDAUGH: -- went to the bathroom. No, I didn't get on the treadmill.
MR. WATERS: Jog in place?
ALEX MURDAUGH: No, I didn't jog in place.
MR. WATERS: Do jumping jacks?
ALEX MURDAUGH: No, sir, I did not do jumping jacks.
MR. WATERS: What were you doing, Mr. Murdaugh, those 4 minutes?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Preparing to leave for my mom's house.
MR. WATERS: What? What does that mean? I mean, you're in the front room on that couch where you say you laid down. Suburban was just right outside. What all are you doing?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I don't know if I got up and went to my room, went to the gun room.
MR. WATERS: Doing what?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Went back in that --
MR. WATERS: Doing what? You've been so clear in your new story about everything. What, what were you doing during these 4 minutes?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I disagree with your assertion about every detail. I don't recall. I know that I was getting up and I was leaving. I was going to check on my mom, but specifically what I was doing I don't -- I, I don't know. I know what I wasn't doing, Mr. Waters, and what I wasn't doing is doing anything as, as I believe you've implied, that I was cleaning off or washing off or washing off guns, putting guns in a raincoat, and I can promise you that I wasn't doing any of that.
MR. WATERS: Okay. Also during this 4 minutes where it's got 283 steps, not only were you moving around a lot, but you were making a ton of phone calls. Does that -- in that same time period. You see this red light right here where over that four minute period all those steps were taken? That's also where you're calling, making all these phone calls, isn't it, Mr. Murdaugh?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Well, I made the phone calls --
MR. WATERS: So, were you running in place and making phone calls?
MR. GRIFFIN: Your Honor, he should be allowed to answer before Mr. Waters steps on him again with another question, please. Thank you.
MR. WATERS: I'll rephrase, Your Honor.
JUDGE NEWMAN: All right.
MR. WATERS: You were making all these phone calls while you were taking all these steps. Would you concede that, or you don't remember what you were doing?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Well, I was making phone calls and -- that, that show on here at 9:05 I called my dad. You know, I don't know that I was taking steps like you're saying I'm taking steps. I heard the same testimony you heard, Mr. Waters, and, you know, steps can be recorded any number of ways. I don't have a specific recollection of walking around. I don't know if I was hitting my phone like the guy showed or doing whatever that makes steps, but, you know, what --
MR. WATERS: So, you were hitting your phone like that while you were making all these phone calls?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Hang on. No, sir. What I'm saying, Mr. Waters, I don't know that. I'm, I'm just giving you an example. You're saying that I'm running around taking these steps and while I'm doing that, I'm making telephone calls. What I will agree with is that this data shows that there was 283 steps recorded on my phone, and some time during that period I made certain phone calls.
MR. WATERS: Okay. All right. So, not only for whatever it is that's recording steps, but you're also making a ton of telephone calls, including missed calls to Maggie, who is 1100 feet away supposedly?
ALEX MURDAUGH: You're using the term a ton of phone calls.
MR. WATERS: Yeah.
ALEX MURDAUGH: What I agree is that I, I made the phone calls that are listed on these call data records which, you know, are very normal calls for me.
MR. WATERS: Do you know why so many phone calls are missing from the log around this relevant time period when law enforcement downloaded your phone on June 10th?
ALEX MURDAUGH: From my phone?
MR. WATERS: Yeah.
ALEX MURDAUGH: No, I don't.
MR. WATERS: Did you delete them, Mr. Murdaugh?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Not intentionally.
MR. WATERS: Just around the time of June 7th all these calls are missing, but you had nothing to do with that between June 7th and June 10th?
ALEX MURDAUGH: No, sir, I did not, and I did not delete phone calls from my phone. Mr. Waters, one of the most important things in this whole thing for me has been getting this data that I believe would exist. Phone calls and phone records would be part of that. I've been in enough civil cases and used phone records enough times to know that you delete a phone call from your phone, it doesn't disappear. So, I can tell you, this jury, and everybody who's listening that I did not intentionally delete phone calls from my phone.
MR. WATERS: Yeah, because you started talking about -- you're, you're a former prosecutor, correct, and former lawyer doing civil cases. We went through that yesterday and, boy, you're a busy bee on that phone right out of the gate at 9:02, right?
MR. GRIFFIN: Object to the comments.
JUDGE NEWMAN: The objection is overruled.
ALEX MURDAUGH: Am I a busy bee?
MR. WATERS: Yeah.
ALEX MURDAUGH: I, I am using my telephone at -- I think I called -- at 9:05 I start and call my dad, and I agree that I made other phone calls.
MR. WATERS: And one of the first things you start talking about with law enforcement is these calls that you made to Maggie, correct? You recall that with your first statement to law enforcement?
ALEX MURDAUGH: One of the first things that I said to law enforcement?
MR. WATERS: Yeah. That's one of the things you talked about. I'm talking about with your interview with Special Agent Dave Owen.
ALEX MURDAUGH: I don't remember that being the first thing we talked about, but --
MR. WATERS: One of the first things.
ALEX MURDAUGH: If Mr. Owens asked me about it, then I --
MR. WATERS: No. You brought it up, didn't you?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I did?
MR. WATERS: You don't recall?
ALEX MURDAUGH: No, I don't. I don't recall.
MR. WATERS: Would you dispute me if I said you brought it up?
ALEX MURDAUGH: That I brought up -- brought up what?
MR. WATERS: Your phone, Mr. Murdaugh, the phone.
ALEX MURDAUGH: Phone calls to Maggie?
MR. WATERS: Yes.
ALEX MURDAUGH: That I brought up phone calls to Maggie with David Owens?
MR. WATERS: I'm asking you. Is that one of the things that you talked about in your first interview with David Owen, that you pulled out your phone and started looking at it, that you brought that up. Do you recall that?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Well, but that's not what you asked, Mr. Owens. You, you, you asked me was that the first thing that I talked to him about, and that was the discrepancy. I certainly don't dispute that Mr. Owens and I talked about phone calls, but that's not what you said. So, just to be clear.
MR. WATERS: Well, the real reason, Mr. Murdaugh, is that you as a lawyer and prosecutor are up at 9:02, finally having your phone in your hand, moving around, and making these phone calls to manufacture an alibi. Is that not true?
ALEX MURDAUGH: That's absolutely incorrect.
MR. WATERS: So, that's just another circumstance and coincidence in this particular case right around the time that you lied to law enforcement about maybe one of the most important facts about the case?
MR. GRIFFIN: Objection to the previous comment before the question.
ALEX MURDAUGH: It is a absolute fact that I am not manufacturing an alibi, as you say.
MR. WATERS: How do you remember so much detail about everything else but you don't remember what you were specifically doing to generate 283 steps while you're making these -- all these phone calls in the same four minute period?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I remember unequivocally without any doubt with as clear a mind as I could have at any time that I never manufactured any alibi in any way, shape, or form because I did not and would not hurt my wife and my child.
MR. WATERS: So, why can't you remember what you were doing --
ALEX MURDAUGH: So, I know for a fact that I never, ever, ever created an alibi.
MR. WATERS: Why don't you remember what you are doing when you were so busy for this four minute critical period?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I do remember --
MR. WATERS: Other than I was --
ALEX MURDAUGH: -- what I was doing.
MR. WATERS: Other than I getting ready to go.
ALEX MURDAUGH: Well, because that's what I was doing.
MR. WATERS: Okay. Let's keep going. You made those calls to Maggie in that four minute period. You had just seen them a few minutes ago when you say you were down there and came right back. Why didn't you just take that quick little left 1100 yards away and stop by, see why they didn't answer the call? You were obviously wanting to get in touch with them. Why didn't you go down to the kennels that were so close by?
ALEX MURDAUGH: There was no reason to. I mean --
MR. WATERS: Making multiple missed calls to Maggie and she's so close, and there's a driveway right there. Why do you not just go down there and say hey, guys, I'm heading over there?
ALEX MURDAUGH: It wasn't important to do that. Me, me making those phone calls is simply me letting -- I believe I called Maggie and I believe called -- I called Paul, but that, that -- that's simply me just letting them know that I'm leaving for a minute. I'll be back. The fact that, that they don't answer is not unusual at all. Now, it is odd, it is usual that they never called me back and -- but at that moment, the fact that there's a missed call when, when I know they're on the property, I mean, that doesn't even register at all. That's perfectly normal to try to call somebody who's on the property and not be able to get them. And as far as not going down there -- there, there was no sense of urgency. Maggie was with Paul. You know, she should be as safe as she could be.
MR. WATERS: Did you talk with Maggie about going to Almeda when you were in the kennels?
ALEX MURDAUGH: No, I don't believe I did.
MR. WATERS: Did you talk with Maggie about going to Almeda during supper?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I know that we had talked about it. I had talked -- I don't believe we talked about it at supper, but we may have. I know that I had talked about that I was going to go over there, and that I decided that I wasn't going to go over there, but I --
MR. WATERS: So, what was your conversation at supper? Tell me specifically.
ALEX MURDAUGH: I can't --
MR. WATERS: About going to Almeda.
ALEX MURDAUGH: I can't tell you that we specifically talked about that. The only thing that I can tell you we specifically talked about at supper was Paul-Paul.
MR. WATERS: And what was the conversation?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Maggie was just concerned. Paul-Paul had been having -- for a young person, Paul had been having high blood pressure, and he was very resistant to go to the doctor, and this had been going on for a little while, but lately Paul's feet had swollen. For a twenty-two year old to have -- start having swollen feet concerned both of us, and it particularly concerned Maggie, and we talked about that.
MR. WATERS: Okay. Did y'all talk about Mr. Randolph at all?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I'm sure we did.
MR. WATERS: Do you remember that group text coming in about whether or not anybody was going to go see Mr. Randolph at the hospital the next day?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Do I remember it coming in? No, I don't remember it coming in.
MR. WATERS: You didn't read it until the next day.
ALEX MURDAUGH: I've seen -- I've seen the data.
MR. WATERS: Why didn't you -- did you ever text the group and say you were going to Almeda at all?
MR. WATERS: Did Maggie ever -- did you and Maggie ever specifically discuss her going along with you to Almeda?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I don't believe that we did. I mean, there was a point in time where I said Maggie might go, but it's highly unusual for Maggie to go and visit just my mom. That whole situation, it just made -- it made Maggie sad and she didn't like to go, so.
MR. WATERS: You --
ALEX MURDAUGH: I don't believe that we did, but I do acknowledge that some point I said she might go for some reason.
MR. WATERS: You told law enforcement on multiple occasions that, first of all, Maggie was planning to stay at Edisto the night of June 7th, correct?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I did say that.
MR. WATERS: Okay, and you also said that you came to find out that she came home of her own accord, correct? Told that to law enforcement. Is that true?
ALEX MURDAUGH: She did come home of her own accord.
MR. WATERS: That she decided on her own to come home because she was worried about you. Isn't that what you said?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I did say that, and I believe that to be the case.
MR. WATERS: Since we -- despite what you told law enforcement, and you've since seen the texts that you actually called her and asked her to come home on the night of June 7th.
ALEX MURDAUGH: No, sir. That's not correct.
MR. WATERS: That's not correct?
ALEX MURDAUGH: No, sir, that's absolutely not correct.
MR. WATERS: All right. So, you heard your sister-in-law Marian testify to just that fact of a conversation she had with Maggie, but you're saying that's not true?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I don't believe that's what Marian said.
MR. WATERS: And your defense put in this exhibit, Exhibit 107, where Maggie texted Blanca and said Alex wants me to come home.
ALEX MURDAUGH: I've seen that. I agree with that.
MR. WATERS: And that in a phone stream -- no, I've got the wrong one. Have you seen this text?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I have seen that. Mr. Waters, the only dispute I have with what you're saying is you're saying that I called Maggie and wanted her to come home. I always wanted Maggie to come home, and I would have talked to Maggie about coming home before she ever left to go to Charleston and to Edisto. And I can tell you this, and I didn't realize this at the time, but I realize it now, that Maggie was already undecided. Now, I didn't know this, but Maggie was already undecided about staying at Edisto. I can promise you that because Bubba and Grady were in their kennels, as y'all well know, that night. If -- that day. If Maggie was certain that she was spending the night at Edisto, at a minimum Bubba would have been with her and probably both dogs would have been with her. It was very usual for her to spend the night anywhere without one of us or those dogs. So --
MR. WATERS: So, you're saying --
ALEX MURDAUGH: -- that tells me that when she left that morning, she was already seriously thinking about coming back.
MR. WATERS: So, you're saying that you never called her and had a conversation that day asking her to come home specifically on the night of June 7, 2021?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Maggie and I had a couple of phone conversations that day. What I'm telling you is --
MR. WATERS: Can you answer my question?
ALEX MURDAUGH: -- before she left -- no, I don't, I don't believe we had a phone call about that. We may have discussed it during the phone call, but I didn't make a phone call to her to ask her to come home. I had already told her I wanted her to come home. I always wanted her to come home. You heard Marian say that, too, that I always wanted Maggie with me.
MR. WATERS: You thought enough of it to talk about it with Marian.
ALEX MURDAUGH: The fact that I wanted her to come home?
MR. WATERS: Right.
ALEX MURDAUGH: Well, sure. That's what Marian said.
MR. WATERS: So, you're denying that you called Maggie and specifically asked her to come home that night.
ALEX MURDAUGH: I didn't make a phone call to Maggie to ask her to come home that night. I asked Maggie to come home that night. I asked Maggie to come home long before she ever left, and I probably asked her again each time I talked to her, but I didn't make the phone call specifically for that, as you're saying. And to be clear, I'm certain that if Maggie was certain that she was spending the night, Bubba would have been with her and probably Grady.
MR. WATERS: All right. Why did you tell law enforcement, though, that you found out after the fact that Maggie wanted to come home because she was concerned about you? Why did you phrase it that way if what you're saying to the jury now is accurate? Why would you phrase it that way?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Because I believe that to be the case.
MR. WATERS: But you found that out afterwards. Now you're saying you knew.
ALEX MURDAUGH: No. I'm saying I found out afterwards why she came home, Mr. Waters, and she came home because she was worried about me. So, I'm going to be clear about that. I did not learn that until, I think, the day after she got killed.
MR. WATERS: But you're saying that you found out that after the fact. You're telling this jury that you knew the things that you just said about her wanting to come home, and you were unaware of what Marian would say at that point either.
ALEX MURDAUGH: No. I'm saying at that time, I had not thought about Bubba and Grady. Since that time, I've thought about that; I'm certain about that. At that time, I thought Maggie was staying at Edisto, all right? She was going to Edisto to do -- to meet the people to do the work. Maggie loved to stay at Edisto; there's no doubt about that. It would not be unusual at all for her to stay at Edisto, but just like every other time, I had already asked her please come back. Come back. Always wanted her to stay with me, always, but I did not learn about -- and, and Maggie even texted me I'll see you in a few hours, but I did not know why she decided to come back until later is what I am saying, and I learned it from Blanca. Blanca actually showed me the text that she sent her talking about being worried about me.
MR. WATERS: You would agree with me that you sent a text to Maggie at 9:08:58 while in motion in the Suburban as reflected by the data?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I do, which was because I couldn't reach them by telephone, and I wanted them to know where I was, which is what we do.
MR. WATERS: You got to Almeda around 9:22.
ALEX MURDAUGH: I believe that's correct. I, I don't -- I don't have any reason to dispute that.
MR. WATERS: You made some more phone calls along the way.
ALEX MURDAUGH: I did make more phone calls along the way while I was riding.
MR. WATERS: Called Chris Wilson.
ALEX MURDAUGH: I did call Chris Wilson.
MR. WATERS: Had a short conversation with him. Is that right?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I did have a conversation for however long the records show.
MR. WATERS: About 131 seconds. That sound about right?
ALEX MURDAUGH: If that's what the records show, 2 minutes.
MR. WATERS: Called your brother John Marvin for about 106 seconds, including connection time. Does that sound about right?
ALEX MURDAUGH: That does sound about right.
MR. WATERS: Arrived at 9:22. Does that sound about right?
ALEX MURDAUGH: It does.
MR. WATERS: And then at 9:24, you called -- that's the landline at Almeda. Is that correct?
ALEX MURDAUGH: That is correct.
MR. WATERS: Then you went inside. Is that right?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Yeah, that's right.
MR. WATERS: Talked to Ms. Shelley?
ALEX MURDAUGH: That's right. I called the house phone to get Shelley to let me in.
MR. WATERS: And when you were asked by law enforcement how long you were at your mother's house, you said 45 minutes to an hour. Isn't that correct?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I think I said a couple of different things, but I think at one time I did say that. But, you know, routinely through these things I kept saying, you know, when you get this data, you will see exactly. When you look at my phone, you'll see exactly. When you -- you know. So, you know, me giving the times was always given with the thought that, okay, there's OnStar out there. There's whatever.
MR. WATERS: When you had a conversation with Ms. Shelley after the fact, you actually asked her to say that you were there longer than 20 minutes.
ALEX MURDAUGH: You know, I heard Shelley's testimony. I believe Shelley to be a good person. I wasn't trying to influence Shelley on any particular length of time because at, at the beginning of this, I believed that data would show what data would show, and for me to tell her to say something when my OnStar's going to show something different just doesn't make any sense. So, you know, I can't answer that. What my recollection is, is that I told Shelley that law enforcement would be talking to her. We may have discussed how long I was there at that point in time. If I thought I was there 45 minutes, I may have said I was there 45 minutes, but, you know, I can't tell you.
MR. WATERS: All right, and that's the same thing that Blanca testified to, that you talked to her about the clothes that you were wearing and made her uncomfortable, correct?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Ask that question again.
MR. WATERS: Similar to your conversation with Blanca that she testified about when you talked to her about the clothes that you were supposedly wearing --
ALEX MURDAUGH: Well, what's --
MR. WATERS: -- and made her feel uncomfortable. Do you remember that testimony, sir?
ALEX MURDAUGH: What's similar to that?
MR. WATERS: Oh, that you're talking to both of these individuals about their testimony in a manner that is inconsistent with what we now know.
ALEX MURDAUGH: No. I don't think -- I don't, I don't think your assertion is accurate. You have to understand this. On August the 11th when I went to be with David Owens and in that, David Owens asked me about -- he showed me that Snapchat and asked me about clothes that I had on. And shortly after that, the next time I was with Blanca, I asked Blanca about those clothes because David Owens had asked me about them and was making -- made an issue about it so. And so I checked with Blanca to see what, what -- I specifically asked Blanca, and it was an issue to me. So, I got Blanca and I said I need you to sit down and talk with me about this. This is important. Do you remember my clothes when you came to Moselle that day? And she remembered exactly what she testified to. She remembered that my pants were there. She wasn't sure if the shirt was there. At that time, I think she actually thought the shirt was there, but she was clear that she wasn't sure about that, but -- no, no. She wasn't unsure about it. She didn't remember but assumed that it was. So, that was the conversation that -- and why I was asking Blanca.
MR. WATERS: So, again very specific about your memory of that conversation, correct, Mr. Murdaugh?
ALEX MURDAUGH: You dang right I'm, I'm consistent about that because a very short time before that, David Owens is asking me questions and telling me I'm a suspect in the murder of my wife and my child and asking me about my clothes. You dang right it was important.
MR. WATERS: It was important, right?
ALEX MURDAUGH: And you dang right I remember what -- why I went to her and for what reason.
MR. WATERS: Because the only thing you're concerned about is yourself. You're not concerned about giving accurate information to law enforcement, correct? What's the reason for that, Mr. Murdaugh? Why don't you want to give accurate information to law enforcement? Why do you want to talk to these women who both were employed by you or your family and try to influence what they were going to say?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I, I did want to give law enforcement accurate information. I told a lie about being down there, and I got myself wed to that. But I wanted to give them as much -- I knew that I hadn't done this, and I wanted to give them as much accurate information as I could. But the reason I went to Blanca is specifically because David Owens talking to me on August the 11th.
MR. WATERS: You see you were on your way at 9:42 heading back?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I do.
MR. WATERS: 9:42 to 9:43?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I do.
MR. WATERS: Turned on Moselle about 10:01.
ALEX MURDAUGH: Turned in to Moselle about 10:01?
MR. WATERS: Yeah.
ALEX MURDAUGH: It looks to me like I turned in to Moselle at 10:00.
MR. WATERS: 10:00.
ALEX MURDAUGH: Yes, sir.
MR. WATERS: And at the house at 10:05.
ALEX MURDAUGH: Yes, sir.
MR. WATERS: That's when you went back to the kennels after you came back from Almeda, correct?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I went to the kennels after I went to the house at -- I went from Almeda to the house.
MR. WATERS: When you got to the scene, you got out of the car, according to what you told law enforcement repeatedly, and went and checked the bodies, correct, before you called 911. Is that correct?
ALEX MURDAUGH: No, sir, that's not correct.
MR. WATERS: You're saying you didn't say that to law enforcement?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I don't know what I said to law enforcement, Mr. Waters, but I can tell you this. I pulled up and I saw Mags and Paul-Paul. I jumped out of that car. I know that I went back to my car, and I called 911 as quickly as I could. That point in time when I got on the phone, then is when I went to them and did the things that I did.
MR. WATERS: But you were there --
ALEX MURDAUGH: So, what you're saying is not accurate.
MR. WATERS: You're saying that you didn't say very specifically to law enforcement that you went to them prior to calling 911.
ALEX MURDAUGH: When?
MR. WATERS: After you got out of the car. You told law enforcement repeatedly that you went over and checked the bodies before you called 911.
ALEX MURDAUGH: I don't -- if I did say that, I, I, I don't believe that's accurate. Did I check Maggie and Paul before I called 911? No, sir. That not, that's not -- I don't -- that's not accurate. At least that's not what I remember.
MR. WATERS: That's not what you remember saying, or that's not what you say now happened?
ALEX MURDAUGH: No, that's not -- that's not what I believe happened.
MR. WATERS: But you don't deny that's what you said.
ALEX MURDAUGH: That I said that I checked Maggie and Paul before I called 911?
MR. WATERS: Right.
ALEX MURDAUGH: I don't believe that's what I said. Now, I know I checked them, but I don't believe I checked them before I called 911 because I, I can pretty well remember vividly when I checked Paul-Paul, I was already on the phone with 911.
MR. WATERS: Looking at this data, does it show the vehicle parking at 10:05:55?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Yes, sir.
MR. WATERS: At 10:05:57, the Suburban arrives at the kennels. Do you agree with that?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I'm sorry. Say that again, Mr. Waters.
MR. WATERS: At 10:05:57, it shows the Suburban arriving at the kennels.
ALEX MURDAUGH: Okay. Okay.
MR. WATERS: 911 call was at 10:06:14.
ALEX MURDAUGH: Okay.
MR. WATERS: Just about 20 seconds later. Do you agree with that?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I think that sounds right, yes, sir. I mean, that makes sense, but that goes back to what I'm saying is I, I pulled up, saw -- I saw them, and I know I jumped out of my car, but I believe that before I checked them -- in fact, I'm almost certain that when I went back and I got my -- that's when I went and got my phone and I called 911. And then after I called 911, they -- I mean, there was a little while where there wasn't -- I don't think there was anything going on. And I believe that that is the time period that I went and checked on them.
MR. WATERS: I don't want to belabor this point, but what you're saying here today now that we have this data, that's not exactly how you expressed it to law enforcement in your prior statements. Is that correct?
ALEX MURDAUGH: No, sir, I disagree with that; I totally disagree with that, Mr. Waters. Will you point to what you're talking about?
MR. WATERS: Sure.
(Break in proceedings.)
(Excerpt of interview of the defendant, Alex Murdaugh, was played. Audio not transcribed.)
MR. WATERS: The person you didn't name, that was Rogan, the little boy right around the corner. Is that who you were talking about?
ALEX MURDAUGH: That's correct, but going back to your question, I mean, that's, that's the way I remember what I said right there. And I -- you know, your, your question about did I do these things before I called 911, that's not what I said then, and that's not what I remember now.
MR. WATERS: So, you're saying now that you now checked, you came back, got your phone, and that's when you called 911?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I'm not saying that now, Mr. Waters. I am saying that now, but to me, that's what I said then. I mean, I told her -- I called 911 right away. I didn't have -- there was no time to do the things that I'm talking about doing in the -- in the -- in the time between getting there and calling 911.
MR. WATERS: You talked about calling Rogan. You said he lived right around the corner, correct?
ALEX MURDAUGH: That's correct.
MR. WATERS: But Rogan wasn't staying there at the time. That's the whole reason that Cash was at your kennel. You agree with that?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Well, Rogan was staying in Beaufort a lot, but he was home a lot, too. I didn't, I didn't know where Rogan was on a daily basis.
MR. WATERS: Rogan hadn't talked to you about keeping his dog, Cash, at the kennel while he was staying with his girlfriend and working down in Beaufort?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Yes, he had. He had asked me that. I mean, that had been some time before. I didn't know -- you're making a big deal about this, Mr. Waters, but that particular night I didn't, I didn't have a clue where Rogan was staying or not staying. I was trying to find somebody to come out there with me. I'd called Randy, I'd called John, and Rogan was the next best alternative, and Rogan was so close. I mean, Rogan, of all these kids that you've heard, Rogan Gibson, Ro-ro is like a -- Rogan, you prefer when I call him Rogan -- is truly like a son to Maggie and I, and he was such a good friend to Buster, and he was such a good friend to Paul. And you've been through everything I have. You'll see that two weeks or three weeks prior to this, I ran out of gas when Bus and Paul-Paul weren't home, and Rogan's the person that I called to bring me gas.
MR. WATERS: Would you play this?
(The video continued to play.)
MR. WATERS: You just testified that in the wake of this, you didn't know what you said to law enforcement. That was what you just said?
ALEX MURDAUGH: No. I mean, I know, I know a lot of what I said to law enforcement, but there's a lot of things in looking back at this video -- for one, the 911 call for one. I mean, there's a lot of things that I didn't remember.
MR. WATERS: Okay, but right then and there, just not long into this interview, you made a conscious decision to lie right there.
ALEX MURDAUGH: Play that again.
MR. WATERS: You said I was at the house.
(The video continued to play.)
ALEX MURDAUGH: Play.
MR. WATERS: You want me to back up some more?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Well.
MR. WATERS: Yeah. We can keep listening to it.
(The video continued to play.)
MR. WATERS: Want to hear it again?
ALEX MURDAUGH: No, sir, but I -- I don't --
MR. WATERS: So, you make the conscious decision to lie right there this early into an interview sitting in the front seat, correct?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I don't believe so.
MR. WATERS: Didn't make a conscious decision to lie?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I don't believe that -- I don't believe that was lying at that point.
MR. WATERS: Tell me -- tell me why not.
ALEX MURDAUGH: Because Maggie had gone to the kennels, and I was at the house.
MR. WATERS: So, you think you were being -- that was not a lie at that point?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I, I, I don't believe so at that point.
MR. WATERS: At what -- at what point did you decide to lie?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I'm not sure, but it was in that -- it was --
MR. WATERS: Was in this interview?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I believe that it was.
MR. WATERS: Okay. Was this interview when you were sitting in the front seat, correct?
ALEX MURDAUGH: It is.
MR. WATERS: You're not in custody, correct?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I'm not in custody.
MR. WATERS: They're giving you water, letting you chew tobacco, treating you politely, correct?
ALEX MURDAUGH: They were treating me very politely.
MR. WATERS: So, what was it that, that clicked? So, you said during this interview that I'm going to lie about the most important fact that I know.
ALEX MURDAUGH: I'm not sure exactly when in it that I lied, decided to lie, but I believe it was during this interview. I believe all those things that I talked about, you know, those things that had gone on, the things that people had said to me about don't talk to anybody without a lawyer. Partners all told me that. A lot of my partners told me that. My dear friend Chief Alexander was one who said that. I overheard -- I believe it was Sheriff Hill, I'm not positive. I overheard him tell I believe Mark Ball or Gray Holmes don't let him talk to anybody without a lawyer. And what I believe is that based on my distrust of SLED and getting in that interview -- and I'm not positive about this, but I believe when he asked me, you know, about my relationship with my wife and my son, I believe that's when I decided to lie.
MR. WATERS: But you also left out --
ALEX MURDAUGH: But I'm not positive.
MR. WATERS: -- when you had the GSR, too, because that's what you testified to yesterday.
ALEX MURDAUGH: That certainly contributed.
MR. WATERS: And your dope paranoia, too. You said that as well, correct?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Well, those things are what triggered the paranoia that started as my addiction evolved.
MR. WATERS: Right. So, you're an experienced lawyer and you've been a prosecutor, and you took the advice of your law partners that you should have a lawyer there as -- you read that as I should lie.
ALEX MURDAUGH: No. That's, that's not a accurate statement.
MR. WATERS: Because that's not what that means, does it, Mr. Murdaugh?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Well, that -- that's not -- you're not -- that's not an accurate statement what you just said, Mr. Waters.
MR. WATERS: I just repeated what you just said. You said one of the factors was your law partners -- and now you're blaming Sheriff Hill and Greg Alexander -- told you that you needed a lawyer before you talked to police, and you took that somehow as meaning I need to lie?
MR. WATERS: As a lawyer and a prosecutor.
ALEX MURDAUGH: No, that's what you said, Mr. Waters, but I --
MR. WATERS: All right, how am I mischaracterizing it from your perspective, Mr. Murdaugh?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Because --
MR. WATERS: I think that's -- isn't that what you heard? Isn't what you just said, excuse me.
ALEX MURDAUGH: No, sir, that's not what I said.
MR. WATERS: All right. Say it again.
ALEX MURDAUGH: I believe those guys were trying to help me; I believe they cared about me. I believe they thought that I was in a condition such that I shouldn't talk to anybody. I mean, I mean, those guys had to prop me up, help me get myself together just to be able to talk to David Owens. I mean, they were trying to help me but before that, that was just one of the many things that I believe led to that situation, sitting in there where those paranoid thoughts came to me. And talking about not talking to anybody without a lawyer, Brian Varnadoe checking my hands, the fact that I got a pocket full of pills in my pocket, I was the person who found Maggie and Paul, my distrust for SLED, all of those factors combined and made me decide to lie. I also know him asking me about Maggie and Paul-Paul contributed to that paranoia. All I'm saying is I'm not disputing that I lied. I'm just saying at this point -- you're, you're saying I made a conscious decision to lie here, and I'm saying I don't think I made a conscious decision right there.
MR. WATERS: Okay. So, it was later?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I believe so.
MR. WATERS: But you already had your GSR done at this point.
ALEX MURDAUGH: Yes, sir.
MR. WATERS: Okay.
ALEX MURDAUGH: I had.
MR. WATERS: You'd already talked to your law partners and talked with and heard from Sheriff Hill. Now you're blaming him.
ALEX MURDAUGH: I'm not --
MR. WATERS: And blaming --
MR. WATERS: -- Chief Alexander now as well for your lies.
ALEX MURDAUGH: No, sir, Mr. Waters, I'm not --
MR. WATERS: You just added that one. You didn't say that yesterday. You just added that.
MR. GRIFFIN: Yes, sir, could he please be given an opportunity to --
MR. WATERS: Did you add that one --
MR. GRIFFIN: --- answer the question?
MR. WATERS: -- today on the fly?
MR. GRIFFIN: Objection.
JUDGE NEWMAN: Just a moment. You can finish your last answer.
ALEX MURDAUGH: Mr. Waters, I'm not blaming anybody. I accept full responsibility for what I did. What I'm saying is what I believe contributed to me doing that and the reason why I did that. I think those folks were trying to help me, so I don't blame them. I think they were worried about me.
MR. WATERS: I don't dispute that, but you're saying you took that advice as I need to lie.
ALEX MURDAUGH: No. What you're doing is you're isolating one single --
MR. WATERS: I'm not isolating anything. I mentioned all the factors. You've added some new ones, but I mentioned all the factors that you're blaming --
ALEX MURDAUGH: No, sir.
MR. WATERS: -- for your decision to lie.
ALEX MURDAUGH: That's not what you did. What you asked me is you said I took -- I took my partners telling me not to talk to somebody without a lawyer as a reason to lie, and that's an inaccurate statement. That was one of the factors that went into a series --
MR. WATERS: Your decision to lie --
ALEX MURDAUGH: Hang on, Mr. Waters. A series of events, all right, that caused me to have paranoid thinking, all right, and then I lied.
MR. WATERS: All right, but at some point, it happened during this interview that you crossed over. You're saying that you came into this interview intending to be fully disclosing to everything, and something happened in this interview that sent you over the edge and you said, hey, let me lie about the last time I saw my wife and child alive supposedly, according to me.
ALEX MURDAUGH: I certainly didn't go into that interview, I believe, intending to lie. Mr. Waters, I wasn't capable at that point in time of planning anything or thinking through anything.
MR. WATERS: So, somehow during this interview, all of a sudden those senses came to you to plan to do that?
ALEX MURDAUGH: When I got to thinking in that paranoid way that normally, as I said -- I mean, I could take a deep breath and make it go away. I never had a situation to where it lasted more than a matter of seconds. That night, after all those things had happened, it didn't go away in a matter of seconds, and I decided to lie.
MR. WATERS: Those were the clothes that you ultimately gave to Dave Owen. Is that right?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Those are the clothes I gave to David Owen.
MR. WATERS: At what point did you -- be able to chuck the pills that you say were in your pocket? When did you do that?
ALEX MURDAUGH: When I was in my bedroom.
MR. WATERS: When you were in your bedroom?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Yes, sir. I'm not sure where I put them, but ultimately they would have gone in my suitcase.
MR. WATERS: So, that's when you did it? You have a specific recollection of that?
ALEX MURDAUGH: No, I don't. I just know that I took them out of my pocket.
MR. WATERS: If we watched this whole video, you think you could -- we watched the whole thing, you think you could say, okay, that's the moment my senses came to me and I decided I was going to tell this major lie?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I, I, I don't know that it happened like that, but, I mean, I may be able to tell you some things that contributed to it if we watched the whole thing.
MR. WATERS: I just want to be clear, though, at least on this one. At some point during this interview when you were able to plan your lie about this event and you made that decision --
ALEX MURDAUGH: Obviously --
MR. WATERS: -- but it wasn't what we just played. It wasn't yet. It was some point after that?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I don't think that's a lie right there is, is the reason why I don't think that this occurred before this because what I'm saying there I believe to be truthful, and --
MR. WATERS: Did you --
ALEX MURDAUGH: I know this. I know for a fact that when David Owens asked me about my relationship with my wife and my child, I know that -- and I may be wrong, but I believe that this was before that.
MR. WATERS: You ever heard the expression not telling the whole truth is the same as telling a lie?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Sure I have.
MR. WATERS: That's something you understood as a lawyer and a prosecutor?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Yes.
MR. WATERS: All right.
(The video resumed from the beginning.)
MR. WATERS: You hadn't decided to lie right there, correct?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I don't believe so.
MR. WATERS: You told David Owen that you understood that he had to ask questions, and you do what you need to do, correct?
ALEX MURDAUGH: That is what I told him.
MR. WATERS: All right, this might be a good time for a break.
JUDGE NEWMAN: All right, 1:00. Ladies and gentlemen, addressing the jury, we'll break until 2:15, so go to the jury room. Please do not discuss the case.
(The jury left the courtroom.)
JUDGE NEWMAN: Mr. Murdaugh, you may step down. You are not allowed to discuss your testimony with anyone during lunch.
ALEX MURDAUGH: Yes, sir.
JUDGE NEWMAN: And, Mr. Griffin, I will address whatever matter you want to place on the record when we return.
MR. GRIFFIN: Thank you, Your Honor.
JUDGE NEWMAN: Yes, sir.
UNIDENTIFIED DEPUTY: Your Honor, one second before everybody moves, okay?
JUDGE NEWMAN: All right. One second before everybody moves. Everyone remain seated.
(Break in proceedings.)
JUDGE NEWMAN: All right, we will be in recess til 1:15 -- 2:15.
(A lunch break was taken.)
JUDGE NEWMAN: Mr. Griffin, you wanted to put something on the record?
MR. GRIFFIN: Yes, Your Honor. Thank you. During cross-examination of Mr. Murdaugh, he had testified that in relation to the financial crimes, that he had tried to meet with the Attorney General's Office and that -- on multiple occasions and that -- and that he had from the get go had always been willing to sit down with them. He was specifically talking about the financial investigation and the charges which he received as a result of those investigations. Following up to that questioning -- I mean to that answer, Mr. Waters then went to Mr. Murdaugh's testimony and the information he provided about being down at the kennel, and he said you had never provided that information to law enforcement and other people until today or yesterday. And, Your Honor, that is a direct violation of Doyle v. Ohio, where the Supreme Court said that cross-examining the defendant about his failure to have told an exculpatory story after receiving Miranda warnings at the time of his arrest is a due process violation. The court goes on to say the defendant's post-arrest silence cannot be used against him, violates due process, and that's exactly what happened on cross-examination. So, we want to -- I want to make clear the grounds for our objection. I also would like to move to strike the question, strike the answer, and get a curative jury instruction that they are not to consider any failure of the defendant to come forward with exculpatory information after his arrest relating to the murder charges. Thank you.
JUDGE NEWMAN: All right, Mr. Waters.
MR. WATERS: Yes, sir, Your Honor. Clearly this defendant has given statements on multiple occasions, and that operates as a waiver under Doyle. Additionally, my question was not so limited as Mr. Griffin says and it was, in fact, the defendant who made the point of saying that he had repeatedly tried to talk and put that in issue, at which point this was directly responsive to what he brought up. And additionally this was also all that was discussed were public statements of his counsel, who is an agent on his behalf and attributable to him. So, there's no Doyle violation here. If Mr. Murdaugh had claimed his right to silence from the beginning and had kept that throughout, then the State would be precluded from commenting on the exercise of his right to remain silent. But one thing we know about Mr. Murdaugh is he has not remained silent at any point during this process. And he's the one that brought up this false claim that he had been begging to tell the kennel story when, in fact, he did not do so until yesterday.
JUDGE NEWMAN: Doyle primarily addresses the issue of post-arrest silence. If an accused is silent following an arrest, then it's improper to comment on a post-arrest silence. It does not allow a person, an accused, or a person who's suspected to give contradictory information or to voluntarily give a statement or to voluntarily give a misstatement, as has been acknowledged here. I do not find any Doyle violation and the record is protected.
MR. GRIFFIN: Thank you, Your Honor.
JUDGE NEWMAN: I certainly understand the defense raising any and all possible issues that can be raised, and you've done it here. The record is protected, but all motions are denied. Let's bring the jury.
(The jury returned to the courtroom.)
COURT BAILIFF: The jury is present, sir.
JUDGE NEWMAN: Very good. You may proceed.
MR. WATERS: May it please the Court, Your Honor?
JUDGE NEWMAN: Yes, sir.
BY MR. WATERS:
MR. WATERS: Mr. Murdaugh, good afternoon.
ALEX MURDAUGH: Good afternoon.
MR. WATERS: Pull that mic up a little bit, please.
ALEX MURDAUGH: Excuse me.
MR. WATERS: Thank you. When we left off, we were talking about at one point during that interview in the car with Dave Owen that you decided to start lying about the murders of your wife and son. I'm going to pick up this video real quick. Not going to play the whole.
MR. WATERS: Start from 2 minutes and 9 seconds.
(Excerpt of interview of the defendant, Alex Murdaugh, was played. Audio not transcribed.)
MR. WATERS: Just to be clear, are you saying you hadn't made the conscious decision to start lying about your wife and son's murder right there, correct?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I don't believe so.
MR. WATERS: Okay. Let's continue on.
ALEX MURDAUGH: Mr. Waters, I can't -- I can't tell you exactly when that decision occurred.
MR. WATERS: You can't describe to the jury the moment you decided to lie about your wife, son -- your wife and son's murder?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I can't tell you exactly when that moment occurred.
(The video continued to play.)
MR. WATERS: But you did say earlier that when David Owen asked you about your relationships, that was a trigger point, correct?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Well, that was certainly one of the things that contributed or, or made me paranoid.
MR. WATERS: Okay.
ALEX MURDAUGH: Now, you know, there were already things that had gone on that that, that, that occurred, as I said, that put me in that mind set.
MR. WATERS: Yeah.
ALEX MURDAUGH: But exactly when I decided to, to lie about that, I can't tell you.
MR. WATERS: So the things again, you talked about your drug paranoia, the fact they'd taken GSR, and you talked about the advice of your law partners and Sheriff Hill and Greg Alexander, and then you talked about your distrust of SLED somehow from this -- the circumstances and demeanor in this interview right here, correct?
ALEX MURDAUGH: No. My distrust from SLED didn't arise from this interview. My, my distrust for SLED arose from a couple of things, and it's really several things. It, it arose from the way they had been involved in -- SLED had been involved in the investigation into Paul's criminal charges, and they had been involved in -- there was an issue that had gone on with some rumors about Buster and Paul. They had been involved in that where, you know, Buster nor Paul had anything to do with, with what I'm talking about. And SLED would never -- SLED never said that. You know, they told their lawyer that. They'd never say that. And there been another incident where SLED had charged Greg Alexander, my, my, my friend, in this case. They charged him. And, in fact, I thought the agent that was involved in that was David Owen, but the charges against Greg Alexander were so -- they, they were so wrong that my dad and I made a conscious decision, even though he was a career prosecutor, made a decision to go to the courthouse and sit with Greg Alexander while his trial went on because --
MR. WATERS: This was, like, ten years ago, right?
ALEX MURDAUGH: It was a while back, you know, but --
MR. WATERS: You don't know if Dave Owens was at SLED ten years ago, do you?
ALEX MURDAUGH: No. No. I checked on that because that night, the, the officer who was involved in that case and, and bringing clearly manufactured charges against Greg Alexander --
MR. WATERS: So, you're saying that the night before you sat down for this interview, you were asking somebody about whether or not someone -- about Greg Alexander ten years ago in the wake of what had occurred?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Oh, no, I didn't ask anybody.
MR. WATERS: Okay, so that wasn't what you were discussing when you were sitting in his car?
ALEX MURDAUGH: No, I wasn't discussing that. I'm just telling you that I thought David Owen was the same agent that was involved in that case. Now, I learned later, because I checked on it, I learned later that it was a different David SLED agent, first name David with a different last name. I learned that later. I'm just saying that was all part of that process going on in my mind.
MR. WATERS: So, you're saying that you're sitting here right now thinking that this Dave Owen and the circumstance and demeanor of this interview, you're thinking that guy had been involved in the prosecution or investigation of your friend ten years ago?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I did.
MR. WATERS: Okay. So, here's a new one you just mentioned to us, correct?
ALEX MURDAUGH: No, that's not a new one.
MR. WATERS: Okay.
ALEX MURDAUGH: That's part of --
MR. WATERS: I mean, the circumstances are new. I mean, that's --
ALEX MURDAUGH: No, no.
MR. WATERS: -- fairly specific, don't you think?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Well, no, sir.
MR. WATERS: I mean, the story keeps evolving. Keep going.
ALEX MURDAUGH: No. You, you asked me about this, Mr. Owen. What I said is part of this whole --
MR. WATERS: I'm not Mr. Owens.
ALEX MURDAUGH: I mean Mr. Waters. The whole -- part of this whole involved my distrust for SLED. That was part of a big part of my distrust for SLED.
MR. WATERS: Yeah, we can all see it on your face in this interview, can't we?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I don't know.
MR. WATERS: All right, but you said when -- what you just said a little bit ago, that wasn't a lie. That wasn't a conscious decision yet. So, let's keep going.
ALEX MURDAUGH: No, I'm not saying that. I'm saying I don't believe that it was.
MR. WATERS: Okay.
ALEX MURDAUGH: I don't know exactly when I made the decision to lie about that.
MR. WATERS: All right.
ALEX MURDAUGH: Right.
MR. WATERS: When you see it, let me know, okay?
(The video continued to play.)
MR. WATERS: So, that was the moment right there on that line of questioning, just asking some very general questions about your relationship. You mentioned that before, didn't you, Mr. Murdaugh? Is that the moment right there? Is that the look on your face when you decided to lie about an important fact in your wife and son's murder?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I don't know. As I said, Mr. Waters, I don't know the exact point that --
MR. WATERS: But you --
ALEX MURDAUGH: -- I made that decision.
MR. WATERS: You specifically earlier mentioned that very exchange was somehow triggering you to lie about the last time you saw them alive.
ALEX MURDAUGH: I'm not saying that that's what made me lie. I'm saying this whole set of circumstances caused me to be in a state where I had paranoid thoughts that normally, Mr. Waters, I could take a deep breath and make go away in a second or two seconds or three seconds at the most. And on this night, I wasn't able to do that, but all of those things that I mentioned I believe contributed to that.
MR. WATERS: Okay. Any more you want to add now since you keep adding them?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I'd be glad to answer any question you have.
MR. WATERS: Well, I mean, I'm asking. I mean, the factors have gone from yesterday to today and now even after lunch you got some new ones. So, anything else you want to add right now as to facts?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Mr. Waters, I don't believe that I've added any new factors. I believe that's what I said yesterday.
MR. WATERS: All right.
ALEX MURDAUGH: I've explained some of those factors because of your questions, but I don't believe I've added any factors.
MR. WATERS: Let me move this forward just a little bit.
(The video continued to play.)
MR. WATERS: And you, you talked about yesterday in great detail about the boat case which you brought up on the 911 call and to Daniel Greene in the course of this first interview, correct?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I did. I did mention the boat wreck.
MR. WATERS: All right, and you described that -- do you remember what you said in this interview about the boat wreck?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Not specifically.
MR. WATERS: Not specifically the other people involved in the boat wreck? You don't remember specifically? Do you remember specifically? I guess I should say that.
ALEX MURDAUGH: I remember talking about the boat wreck, and I know that I talked about the boat wreck.
MR. WATERS: All right.
MR. WATERS: I'm going to play now from 1714.
(The video continued to play.)
MR. WATERS: What was the term you used for that, small amount of yip yap?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Yeah, and just to be clear, Mr. Waters, there was never, ever a point in time where I thought that the people that were involved in the boat wreck did this to Paul-Paul and Maggie. I -- I've never thought that.
MR. WATERS: All right, never thought that, but it's literally one of the first things that you said out of the 911 call.
ALEX MURDAUGH: No, that's not what I said. I never, ever, ever under any point in time believed that those kids that were riding in that boat or their parents or their --
MR. WATERS: Or their parents.
ALEX MURDAUGH: -- or their families, I didn't believe that any of the families, the people that were involved in the boat wreck had anything to do with hurting Maggie and Paul.
MR. WATERS: Okay.
ALEX MURDAUGH: But I can tell you that at that time, and as I sit here today, that I believe that boat wreck is the reason why Paul-Paul and Maggie were killed.
MR. WATERS: Okay.
ALEX MURDAUGH: And I'm certain. I believe that.
MR. WATERS: And it was -- it was random vigilantes, 5-2 vigilantes.
ALEX MURDAUGH: No. What I believe, Mr. Waters, is I believe that when Paul was charged criminally, there were so many leaks, half truths, half reports, half statements, partial information, misrepresentations of Paul that ended up in the media all the time. And when I tell you the social media response that came from that was vile, the things that were said about what they would do to Paul-Paul -- they were so over the top that nobody would believe anybody would get on social media and do that. But I believed then and I believe today that the wrong person, the wrong person saw and read that.
MR. WATERS: Okay.
ALEX MURDAUGH: Because I can tell you for a fact that the person or people who did what I saw on June the 7th, they hated Paul Murdaugh. And they had anger in their heart, and that is the only -- the only reason that somebody could be mad at Paul-Paul like that and hate him like that.
MR. WATERS: Okay. All right. So, we've got now --
ALEX MURDAUGH: But that's why --
MR. WATERS: Remind me --
ALEX MURDAUGH: -- I did then believe it was the boat wreck, and I believe now that the boat wreck --
MR. WATERS: All right, so we've got --
ALEX MURDAUGH: -- had something to do with it.
MR. WATERS: All right, so we've got random vigilantes because of the boat wreck.
ALEX MURDAUGH: Now, I don't know that they're random vigilantes.
MR. WATERS: Well, you just said it wasn't the family or the kid or their --
MR. WATERS: -- kids or the family of the other kids in the boat wreck.
ALEX MURDAUGH: What?
MR. WATERS: So, you're saying it's somebody off of social media, and you don't have any of the evidence of that, do you?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Not to --
MR. WATERS: You just believe that, and you're just telling that jury that as you try to explain the lie that you told for the first time yesterday. Isn't that right?
ALEX MURDAUGH: No, sir, that's not right.
MR. WATERS: It's not right. All right. Well, let me ask you a question then. So, what you're telling this jury is that it's a random vigilante.
ALEX MURDAUGH: That's your term.
MR. WATERS: The twelve year old, twelve year old, 5-2 people that just happened to know that Paul and Maggie were both at Moselle on June 7th, that knew that they would be at the kennels alone on June the 7th. They knew that you would not be there but only between the times of 8:49 and 9:02. That they show up without a weapon, assuming that they're going to find weapons and ammunition there, that they commit this crime during that short time window, and then they travel the same exact route that you do around the same time to Almeda. That's what you're trying to tell this jury?
ALEX MURDAUGH: You got a lot of factors in there, Mr. Waters, all of which I do not agree with, but some of which I do.
MR. WATERS: You testified earlier that after this happened -- let me back up, if we could. When you were driving to and from Almeda, why were you in such a hurry?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I wasn't.
MR. WATERS: Why you -- why were you rolling 78 miles an hour down that dark, beat up road?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I wasn't in such a hurry.
MR. WATERS: You weren't?
ALEX MURDAUGH: No, sir.
MR. WATERS: I show you what's marked as State's 573. See if you recognize this.
ALEX MURDAUGH: I do.
MR. WATERS: Tell the jury what that is.
ALEX MURDAUGH: It's Mags's car.
MR. WATERS: All right, and what's it in front of?
ALEX MURDAUGH: The house at Moselle.
MR. WATERS: And what's between the house and Mercedes?
ALEX MURDAUGH: The golf cart.
ALEX MURDAUGH: Is that where it was on June the 8th, to your recollection?
ALEX MURDAUGH: No, sir.
MR. WATERS: Was not? Where was it left?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I mean, it was near there, but that's not exactly where it was, no, sir.
MR. WATERS: Okay. Where was it?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Where we would normally park, it would be a little bit closer to the shed -- I mean, to -- a little bit closer to the -- to the house, to the bushes.
MR. WATERS: Your Honor, at this --
ALEX MURDAUGH: But when was that photograph taken?
MR. WATERS: Do you recognize when it was taken?
ALEX MURDAUGH: No, I don't. I don't recognize, no, sir.
MR. WATERS: You wouldn't dispute that it was around the time in the aftermath of the murders, would you?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Aftermath being when?
MR. WATERS: I'm asking you.
ALEX MURDAUGH: A day, a week, a hour?
MR. WATERS: I wasn't there, Mr. Murdaugh. Do you -- do you recognize this?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I recognize the car, I recognize the house, and I recognize the golf cart, but that is not -- that's, that's not exactly how it would have been that night.
MR. WATERS: All right. Can you -- can you describe to me then where it would be different?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Well, it would be more in line with -- first things first is when we drove the golf cart, and when I drove it for sure and I believe when the others drove it, you would come in and you would -- you would go across the little brick walkway that's in front of this. So, if, if I would have come in and gone this way, or I would have come in and gone this way, this is not a place that, that any of my family would have normally parked. And so what I'm assuming is this obviously is taken at daytime, and what I'm assuming is, is it was taken when SLED came today -- the earliest it was taken was when SLED came to -- earliest it was taken was when SLED came to the house the next day, which I believe the testimony is in the afternoon. And at this point in time that golf cart, I would assume, would have been moved several times.
MR. WATERS: All right.
ALEX MURDAUGH: But that's not how it was.
MR. WATERS: Well, where did you leave the golf cart when you got out of it around 8:49?
ALEX MURDAUGH: In the manner which I just talked about.
MR. WATERS: Okay. Help me out again so I understand. You, you would have come around this way or that way, but where was it -- where would it end up?
ALEX MURDAUGH: It would have been -- in, in this picture it's facing to the right.
MR. WATERS: Oh, I got you.
ALEX MURDAUGH: The night, the night that I drove it, I believe I parked it facing to the left.
MR. WATERS: I understand.
ALEX MURDAUGH: Would be customarily how I did it. And I believe I did it that way that night.
MR. WATERS: Okay. All right.
ALEX MURDAUGH: And, and that is how I would have gotten into it.
MR. WATERS: Okay. That's a very specific memory. Thank you. All right.
MR. WATERS: And at this time --
ALEX MURDAUGH: Well, that's just how it normally is.
MR. WATERS: -- the State would offer State's 573 into evidence.
MR. GRIFFIN: No objection.
JUDGE NEWMAN: It's admitted without objection.
(PHOTO MARKED AS STATE'S EXHIBIT NUMBER 573 WAS RECEIVED INTO EVIDENCE.)
MR. WATERS: Can I have the ELMO very briefly?
ALEX MURDAUGH: And see, Mr. Waters, you can see in the picture now, if you'd bring this up on the screen, if you look to the right you can see the actual steps, and just to the left of that would be where the little brick patio starts. So, where I would normally park it, you would roll across those bricks and the end of the golf cart would be just past those. And we all normally parked it that way because the way you charge this golf cart is if -- you see that back seat? That's sitting -- you can see the edge. This is a three seat golf cart, and you can see the back seat, and a lot of golf carts have the charger. This sits on the floor or something. This golf cart has a charger that's plugged in in a part of the golf cart. So, you flip that seat up and it plugs in, and this -- and the outlets are right up there by the door.
MR. WATERS: Anything else you want to say about that?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I'm going to answer any questions you have, Mr. Waters.
MR. WATERS: I appreciate all that information in great detail.
MR. GRIFFIN: Objection to the comment.
JUDGE NEWMAN: Sustained.
MR. WATERS: All right.
ALEX MURDAUGH: It's just never parked that way by the family.
MR. WATERS: Can we have the computer back, please?
(Break in proceedings.)
MR. WATERS: Mr. Murdaugh, I'm going to put up the second interview. This would have been June the 10th. I'm not going to play the whole thing, but I do want to go through a couple of things with you, okay?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Anything you want to go through, Mr. Waters.
(Break in proceedings.)
MR. WATERS: And I apologize. Got ahead of myself. I want to do one last thing on the first one. For the record, I'm going to start it at 2355. This is the first interview.
(The video continued to play.)
MR. WATERS: Is that the moment there when you repeated the lie that you decided?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Is that the moment that I decided?
MR. WATERS: Is that the moment you decided to lie to mean old Dave Owen?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I don't -- I don't know, as I told you, Mr. Waters, the exact moment that I decided to lie, but at that point in time obviously --
MR. WATERS: But you did lie there, correct?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I did.
(The video continued to play.)
MR. WATERS: All right, we'll go to the second interview, previously admitted. Let me ask you this before we start it. You stated earlier during your direct testimony that after these crimes happened, you were around family, family was around you, your law partners were around you pretty much every minute after that, correct, every waking minute? Didn't you say that yesterday?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Yes, they were for a long time.
MR. WATERS: All right, and this second interview was three days later. Is that right?
ALEX MURDAUGH: That's correct.
MR. WATERS: And at no time to any of your close friends and law partners and family do you confess the truth, do you?
ALEX MURDAUGH: No, I did not.
MR. WATERS: Do you say, hey, man, I think I messed up? What should I do about this?
ALEX MURDAUGH: No, I didn't.
MR. WATERS: You're not telling that lie to anyone, are you, you told us yesterday?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Excuse me?
MR. WATERS: You're not telling that lie to anyone until yesterday, are you?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I'm not telling what lie? Saying I tried to tell somebody that I was lying?
(Break in proceedings.)
MR. WATERS: I'm going to move this to approximately 2456.
(Break in proceedings.)
MR. WATERS: Correction. At 12:28.
(Excerpt of interview of the defendant, Alex Murdaugh, was played. Audio not transcribed.)
MR. WATERS: Pretty much all of that was lies, wasn't it?
ALEX MURDAUGH: The part about me not being at the kennel was a lie.
MR. WATERS: Also not knowing that Paul went down there, not being sure, that was a lie, too, wasn't it? I mean, you're putting some detail on this thing --
MR. WATERS: -- aren't you?
ALEX MURDAUGH: No. Not knowing when Paul left. Everything about me not going to the kennel was a lie.
MR. WATERS: You're able to just do that just so easily and so convincingly and so naturally, don't you?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I mean, that's not for me to judge.
MR. WATERS: That's true.
(The video continued to play.)
MR. WATERS: He was like a little detective. Is that what you said?
ALEX MURDAUGH: That is what I said, and he was very intuitive, like I said.
MR. WATERS: And that was what Marian described as Maggie's term for how he was when keeping tabs on your pill usage. Wasn't that correct?
ALEX MURDAUGH: That, that was what Maggie said about him.
MR. WATERS: For some reason, you decided to bring that up in the interview.
ALEX MURDAUGH: I mean, that was a -- that was a trait of Paul's personality. I mean, I think anybody who knew him would tell you how intuitive he was.
MR. WATERS: All right, for the record I'm at 4630.
(The video continued to play.)
MR. WATERS: Your answer was yes, sir, correct?
ALEX MURDAUGH: That's correct.
(Break in proceedings.)
MR. WATERS: About to go to the August 2021 interview, but between that June 10th interview and the August interview, you were not working very much. Is that correct, if at all?
ALEX MURDAUGH: No, I definitely wasn't working very much. I think I was working a little bit, but no, not very much at all.
MR. WATERS: Did you go to Johnny Parker to borrow $250,000 in order to cover those Faris fees?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I did.
MR. WATERS: You did.
ALEX MURDAUGH: I did.
MR. WATERS: Did you tell him what that was for?
ALEX MURDAUGH: No, I did not tell him what that was for.
MR. WATERS: Did you go to Russell Laffitte at Palmetto State Bank and get $350,000 in order to help cover some of the various fees that you had taken to send to Chris Wilson?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I did.
MR. WATERS: And did you get those fees before you signed any paperwork or documentation?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I've heard testimony about that in this case, but I can't -- I can't tell you the specifics of that.
MR. WATERS: You don't recall that?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Do I recall when I signed paperwork? No, sir.
MR. WATERS: You don't recall that you got the money a month before you had to sign any paperwork?
ALEX MURDAUGH: No, sir, I don't recall that.
MR. WATERS: You recall your phone being in the console --
ALEX MURDAUGH: I'm not disputing that, but I don't recall it.
MR. WATERS: Did you go to your best friend, Chris Wilson, and convince him to cover $192,000, the remaining $192,000, in order for him to send that email to your law firm as if those fees have been there all along?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I spoke to Chris Wilson and did not have the full amount of the fees. And I got Chris Wilson to put the remaining fees in his trust account.
MR. WATERS: And when you did that, you didn't tell him the truth about your life. You just asked him to cover you.
ALEX MURDAUGH: No, I didn't. I did not tell him.
MR. WATERS: He agreed to do that because of his belief of who you really were, who he thought you were.
ALEX MURDAUGH: He agreed to do that for whatever reason. I assume that was a big part of it.
MR. WATERS: And once that $600,000 was transferred, Chris Wilson sent an email to you saying those fees had been there, were in his trust account, correct?
ALEX MURDAUGH: That is correct.
MR. WATERS: And then you forwarded that email to Lee Cope and Jeannie Seckinger, correct.
ALEX MURDAUGH: I know I forwarded it to Jeannie, and I've heard that testimony about forwarding it to Lee Cope. So, I believe that's correct.
MR. WATERS: Why did you not get it all from the PSB?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Because at that time, there were limitations on how much I could borrow because Mags was passed, (YES) and so I was limited.
MR. WATERS: Okay.
ALEX MURDAUGH: I couldn't get a loan against Moselle and had to get a loan against Palmetto State -- I mean, against Edisto.
MR. WATERS: Going to the third interview. All right, I'm going to go to 1745.
(Break in proceedings.)
(Interview of the defendant, Alex Murdaugh, was played. Audio was muted.)
MR. WATERS: The jury's seen this. I mean, you're repeating the same lines over and over again.
ALEX MURDAUGH: I did.
MR. WATERS: Effortlessly and convincingly.
ALEX MURDAUGH: I don't know about that.
MR. WATERS: They can see it there.
ALEX MURDAUGH: Agree with that.
ALEX MURDAUGH: Nobody yelled at you.
ALEX MURDAUGH: Nobody yelled at me. Nobody, nobody -- none of these guys were ever discourteous to me.
MR. WATERS: Nobody what?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I said none of those guys were ever discourteous to me. You made a comment earlier that David Owens was mean or something about being mean, and he was never mean to me.
MR. WATERS: But you decided to lie in part because you distrusted David Owen.
ALEX MURDAUGH: I distrusted SLED in general, and I particularly distrusted who I thought was David Owen at the time, who turned out not to be David Owen.
MR. WATERS: Now, wait a minute. I want to be clear. You're saying now you thought that this was some David Owen that had something to do with Greg Alexander ten years ago?
ALEX MURDAUGH: No, sir, and I'm not saying that now. I said -- I said that all along. The person that I saw and watched in Greg Alexander's trial that was clear to me was just (YES) -- it, it was -- it was terrible what they did to Greg Alexander. And the person at SLED who was responsible for that was a guy named David, all right, and I'm not even get into his last name. (YES) I thought that David Owens that night was that guy. Later down the road -- and it was a while -- I checked into that, and I found out that I was mistaken, that it was not David Owen. It was a different David.
MR. WATERS: So, when we went back and we spent a lot of time going through that first statement, you're telling me now that you were sitting there thinking that this was a completely different guy the whole time, and that was on your mind during that entire interview?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Yes. At the time --
MR. WATERS: Okay. All right.
ALEX MURDAUGH: -- I thought that David Owen -- no, I didn't think David Owen was a different person. I thought that David Owens was the person that my dad and I had watched just -- my dad and I truly thought the evidence was manufactured.
MR. WATERS: You said that part.
ALEX MURDAUGH: And --
MR. WATERS: You said that.
ALEX MURDAUGH: And I thought it was David Owen, and I was wrong about that, but that's what I thought that night.
MR. WATERS: Any other factors or details you want to add about your decision to --
ALEX MURDAUGH: I want to answer any question you have, Mr. Waters.
MR. WATERS: No, no, let's -- you know, any more?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Do you have any more questions, sir?
MR. WATERS: No. I mean any more about your decision to lie. I just want to -- let's get it all out now.
ALEX MURDAUGH: If you have any questions, I'll be glad to answer.
MR. WATERS: All right. Tell me about the replacement Blackout. You initially told law enforcement that you weren't sure whether or not there was one, correct? Correct?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Oh, no, sir, you're absolutely wrong about that.
MR. WATERS: Well, what did you say then?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Shortly after this, it became being told that Paul's gun had been stolen, (YES) and the one you heard talk about being stolen from the thing. (YES) And I'm not sure how I learned this, but I learned that somebody -- I believe SLED had gone to John Bedingfield, who made those guns, and could only find paperwork for two Blackouts, one of which they were saying was stolen in '17, and that's what they were telling me. And I was certain and told them that I was certain that there was a third one.
MR. WATERS: But initially in (YES) June 8th and June 10th or June 10th you were saying that you thought that y'all had replaced it, and then you kind of wavered. Then eventually said you did replace it, correct?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I don't believe that's correct. No, sir.
MR. WATERS: Don't think that's correct?
ALEX MURDAUGH: No, I don't believe that's correct.
MR. WATERS: Did you say the law enforcement that you thought that this third gun, the replacement Blackout, had gone missing in (YES) Christmas of 2020?
ALEX MURDAUGH: It did go missing in Christmas of 2020.
MR. WATERS: So, you're telling them that one also had been missing six months prior, correct?
ALEX MURDAUGH: When?
MR. WATERS: Answer my question first, and then you can explain. Did you tell law enforcement that that gun had been missing since Christmastime?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I told law enforcement that when we looked for it at Christmastime, we could not find it.
MR. WATERS: Okay.
ALEX MURDAUGH: And that was -- that was accurate. We -- we'd looked for it when we were trying to shoot hogs when we had a, a group of people out there and we could not find it.
MR. WATERS: Okay, but you now know that it was there as late as turkey season.
ALEX MURDAUGH: I -- no, sir. I know that Will Loving and Paul-Paul had it right before turkey season like Will Loving testified to.
MR. WATERS: So, it was around there.
ALEX MURDAUGH: It was around there at some point in time there, yes, sir.
MR. WATERS: So, you're saying it got stolen a second time, or you just don't know?
ALEX MURDAUGH: No, I'm not.
MR. WATERS: The twelve year old stole it the second time?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I never said a twelve year old stole any gun, Mr. Waters.
MR. WATERS: Sorry. The 5-2 people stole it the second time?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I don't know that it was stolen. I just know that when we looked for it at Christmastime, we couldn't find it, and I know this. I know that I hadn't seen that gun in a long time. I've heard the testimony that people who were at my house using guns and hunting with us all the time, Rogan, Buster, they didn't -- I can't remember about Buster, but there were several people who didn't even know that gun had been replaced. So, that tells me that that gun did not stay where our regular guns were. And I know that I didn't see it there, and it tells me that they didn't see it there.
MR. WATERS: Of course you didn't see it there. It's got to be missing. Is that right, Mr. Murdaugh?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Ask that question again.
MR. WATERS: You have one more circumstance for your latest story to work is that it's got to be missing as well. When you saw law enforcement, it was missing at Christmastime. Now we've had testimony in this trial and now you're still claiming that you never saw it. It must have been kept somewhere else. Where else would it have been kept?
ALEX MURDAUGH: It could have been kept anywhere, Mr. Waters, the way Paul did guns, the way, guns were handled around there. I was terrible about that.
MR. WATERS: You were terrible about that.
ALEX MURDAUGH: I should have been stricter.
MR. WATERS: But you know that that third gun was fired right outside the gun room door in turkey season of 2021, correct?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I know that now based on what Will Loving said.
MR. WATERS: And you know it was also fired across the street at y'all's shooting house around that same time, don't you?
ALEX MURDAUGH: No, sir, I don't know that, but I know that it -- I would assume that it was fired at the shooting range, but I have no -- I don't -- I don't have any reason to believe it was done in close proximity to that time.
MR. WATERS: A few months go by, couple months go by, and you get confronted about your thefts from the law firm, correct?
ALEX MURDAUGH: September of '21.
MR. WATERS: Unlike June the 7th when Jeannie confronted you, this time they had unassailable evidence, correct?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Yeah, that's correct. I mean, they had. (YES)
MR. WATERS: No wiggling out of this one, correct?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I didn't try to wiggle out of this one.
MR. WATERS: Well, you'd been wiggling before, though, right? You wiggled when you stole your brother's money twice, correct?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I admit almost all of these things, Mr. Waters, but that's one of the things that I take dispute with.
MR. WATERS: Which one?
ALEX MURDAUGH: That I stole that money that you're referring to.
MR. WATERS: You're going to dispute that. Let's hear about that. Tell me why you dispute cashing that check twice.
ALEX MURDAUGH: I don't dispute cashing that check twice.
MR. WATERS: But you're going to tell this jury that you accidentally didn't realize that you were supposed to be receiving some $125,000 check, 120 -- however $1000 check two times?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I'm -- what I'm telling you --
MR. WATERS: How many $120,000 checks do you receive?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I got that check and, and this is several months after. I mean, you can look at my finances and you can -- you can see how I was doing. I didn't balance a checkbook. But the fact of the matter is when I got that check, I asked about it and I was told mistakenly that, that it was for me, that I had -- I had done -- participated in that year end thing, which I did sometimes. Not often, but sometimes. Apparently a new check got cashed. I cashed that check. Then a year later (YES)
MR. WATERS: Yeah, where did you keep that one for a year?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I don't -- I don't know where it was. It was obviously in my desk, but, Mr. Waters.
MR. WATERS: So, you found it in your desk?
ALEX MURDAUGH: No, I, I didn't find it.
MR. WATERS: Well, you say it was obviously in your desk. So, you remember that? You remember finding it in your desk?
ALEX MURDAUGH: No. I remember when we --
MR. WATERS: Did you go to Finance and say I just found this year old check? Is this right?
MR. WATERS: No.
ALEX MURDAUGH: When --
MR. WATERS: You took it to the bank, didn't you?
ALEX MURDAUGH: No, sir.
MR. GRIFFIN: Your Honor.
ALEX MURDAUGH: I didn't.
MR. GRIFFIN: Object for him not allowing Mr. Murdaugh to answer the question.
ALEX MURDAUGH: So when this came up, when, when this came up, that check got cashed. There's no way that I can have a check in our law firm with the way accounting is and that I can cash a check twice and think that -- that's impossible. So, to, to cash a check that's already been checked, (YES) (YES) it's going to throw -- there's no question it's going to throw that off. What happened is I had a -- we used to get a rent check, we get little checks, I'd have checks, and they pile up, the small checks. That check got mixed in and it got sent to the bank and it got deposited.
MR. WATERS: Keep going.
ALEX MURDAUGH: And that was a year after, but I do dispute that I stole that money, that money.
MR. WATERS: All right. Well, I mean, you brought it up. So, any, any of the other money you dispute stealing?
ALEX MURDAUGH: No. No, sir. You brought it up. I was just telling you that that was the one I disputed.
MR. WATERS: Heard Ronnie Crosby and Mark Ball testify about that, correct?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I heard Ronnie and Mark testify about what they thought about it, yes, sir. Yes, sir.
MR. WATERS: You testified yesterday about the side of the road.
ALEX MURDAUGH: Yeah. Yes, sir.
MR. WATERS: And you heard the testimony during the State's direct case about what you said on the 911 call. You heard that, didn't you?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I did hear that.
MR. WATERS: You heard the 911 call where you said you'd been attacked by an unknown assailant and described him.
ALEX MURDAUGH: I did.
MR. WATERS: And you saw the video from the ambulance where you said you'd been attacked by an assailant and described him.
ALEX MURDAUGH: I did.
MR. WATERS: You heard the testimony of Ryan Kelly where you again went into detail and described this attack from an unknown assailant?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I did.
MR. WATERS: And you heard the testimony about your interview on September 6th with law enforcement in which you went into great detail and again described this unknown assailant?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I did.
MR. WATERS: And you heard the testimony and, in fact, the image was put in about (YES) how you sat down (YES) with a SLED sketch artist and spent a period of time with her going forward and creating an image of a supposed assailant.
ALEX MURDAUGH: I did sit down with her. I, I was in the hospital and they came in, sat down with me, asked me a bunch of questions, I answered their questions, and --
MR. WATERS: Yes, you did.
ALEX MURDAUGH: It came to a --
MR. WATERS: You sat there --
ALEX MURDAUGH: It came up with a composite, yes, sir.
MR. WATERS: Sat there and answered their questions just as effortlessly and convincingly as you've been trying to do for the past two days. Isn't that correct?
ALEX MURDAUGH: No, sir, that's, that's not true. In that hospital --
MR. WATERS: All those -- go ahead.
ALEX MURDAUGH: I was -- I was -- I mean, I couldn't sit still. I was standing up. I was walking around. I was using the bathroom with the lady sitting right there. I was, you know, I was two days into not taking -- three days into not taking pills like I had been. So, no, it wasn't effortlessly, but, I mean, I told them what I told them. I don't dispute that I lied.
MR. WATERS: It was all lies, though, is the point, correct?
ALEX MURDAUGH: It was.
MR. WATERS: And you're saying withdrawals, but you still were able to pull off lies in great detail.
ALEX MURDAUGH: I lied to them.
MR. WATERS: And the lie that you told of an unknown assailant was to try to make people think that the, quote, real guy, bad guys were back again to finish the job. Isn't that true?
ALEX MURDAUGH: No, sir, that's not true.
MR. WATERS: It's about the effect that you intended that story to have? Did it have that affect on people that you knew?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I don't --
MR. WATERS: Isn't that the exact effect that it had?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I don't -- I don't -- I don't think there's many people that believed that, no, sir. I know people that were -- I mean, the people that were closest to me didn't believe that. So, no, no, sir.
MR. WATERS: When accountability is at your door, Mr. Murdaugh, bad things happen. Isn't that true?
ALEX MURDAUGH: When accountability is --
MR. WATERS: After your wife --
ALEX MURDAUGH: -- at my doorstep?
MR. WATERS: Go ahead.
ALEX MURDAUGH: Bad things happen? What do you mean by bad things?
MR. WATERS: June 7th happened. September 4th happened.
ALEX MURDAUGH: I don't believe that June the 7th happened because accountability issues were at my doorstep. Now, I do believe in September that I tried to get a man to help me kill myself because issues were at my doorstep.
MR. WATERS: Every time -- or, I'm sorry, for the first time in your life of privilege and prominence and wealth, when you were facing accountability each time, suddenly you became a victim and everyone ran to your aid. Isn't that true?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I disagree with that, but -- any -- what you're --
MR. WATERS: Shame for you --
ALEX MURDAUGH: You're, you're --
MR. WATERS: Is an extraordinary provocation. Isn't that true, Mr. Murdaugh?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Hang on, let me just finish this. You, you seem to be implying two dates, June the 7th and September, in talking about accountability issues, and those, to me, those two things are totally different. There were no accountability issues on my doorstep on June the 7th.
MR. WATERS: That's what you say.
ALEX MURDAUGH: And in September --
MR. WATERS: Not what other people say.
ALEX MURDAUGH: I was trying to -- well, no, I mean, been a lot of people -- in, in September, that wasn't designed to gain me sympathy. That was designed for me not to be here because I didn't want my son to have to deal with the wake (YES) of the things that I had done.
MR. WATERS: But that's not the story you told. The story that came out of your mouth right away was the story of you getting attacked by some unknown assailant while you were trying to change a tire and run flats.
ALEX MURDAUGH: Well, that's --
MR. WATERS: That's the story that you told.
ALEX MURDAUGH: That is the story I told, but that's because the man who shot me did not shoot me that day (YES) as I intended. And I had a -- I had to have a story as to how I got shot, so I lied.
MR. WATERS: So you lied, and you're saying that people in your family and your friends didn't instantly believe that whoever these twelve-year-old marauders were back to finish the job.
ALEX MURDAUGH: You keep using the term --
MR. WATERS: It's happened just --
ALEX MURDAUGH: Twelve-year-old marauders.
MR. WATERS: -- just 2 hours after you had been confronted by Chris Wilson.
ALEX MURDAUGH: I think probably some people may have thought that when it first happened, but I think Randy, Ronnie, Mark, those guys, I think they knew very quickly that this was not -- I think they knew this was something that I'd done.
MR. WATERS: Shame for you -- I asked this before, but shame for you is an extraordinary provocation, isn't it, Mr. Murdaugh?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Shame for me is an extraordinary provocation? I don't like to be shamed.
MR. WATERS: The prospect of humiliating your legacy is an extraordinary provocation to you, isn't it, Mr. Murdaugh?
ALEX MURDAUGH: What do you mean by an extraordinary provocation?
ALEX MURDAUGH: What do you mean by an extraordinary provocation?
MR. WATERS: It affects you deeply. It's your biggest concern, is it not?
ALEX MURDAUGH: No, that's not my biggest concern.
MR. WATERS: You're a middle aged man like me?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I'm fifty-four years old. I'm not sure. You look like you're in better shape than me, so I don't know.
MR. WATERS: I was actually a couple years behind you in law school, but we never knew each other, did we?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I never knew, you know, sir.
MR. WATERS: You had a very successful career up until this point.
ALEX MURDAUGH: You know?
MR. WATERS: It's a simple question.
ALEX MURDAUGH: And the answer to that is no, Mr. Waters. I was an addict for more than twenty years.
MR. WATERS: All right, so out -- so, making millions of dollars over, over a decade is not having a successful career? Is that what you're telling this jury?
ALEX MURDAUGH: No, that's not a successful career when you --
MR. WATERS: Okay. Well, let me put it like this.
ALEX MURDAUGH: Now, hang on? Let me -- let me just --
MR. WATERS: All right. Go ahead.
ALEX MURDAUGH: -- put this -- you know, it may have been what you perceive as a successful career, but, you know, I was the one who was fighting that. (YES) You don't have a very high self esteem when you're an addict. So, I, I don't deem myself a success.
MR. WATERS: Would you agree that, at least outwardly, you were perceived as successful?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I made -- I made -- I made a bunch of money, if that's what you're wanting to, to get at.
MR. WATERS: No. I'm actually asking about the perception. You were perceived as a prominent --
ALEX MURDAUGH: I tried to be.
MR. WATERS: -- trial lawyer.
ALEX MURDAUGH: How I was perceived, I don't know.
MR. WATERS: You were president of the Trial Lawyers.
ALEX MURDAUGH: I sure tried to be.
MR. WATERS: Lived a life of possessing authority?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Possessing authority?
MR. WATERS: Yeah. It's all the badges. You just admitted your prominence in the legal community.
ALEX MURDAUGH: I don't think that I lived a life of possessing authority. I never saw myself as that way.
MR. WATERS: You think you lived a life of privilege?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I think I was very privileged.
MR. WATERS: As we move to June of 2021, you were suffering from a drug addiction.
ALEX MURDAUGH: Absolutely.
MR. WATERS: Your father was terminally ill.
ALEX MURDAUGH: When? In -- I mean.
MR. WATERS: As we move to June of 2021.
ALEX MURDAUGH: No, sir.
MR. WATERS: He was very ill.
ALEX MURDAUGH: He was very ill.
MR. WATERS: And you were coming to a point a financial crisis.
ALEX MURDAUGH: I was -- I was having financial issues like I'd had many times in the past.
MR. WATERS: Mr. Murdaugh, are you a family annihilator?
ALEX MURDAUGH: A family annihilator? You mean, like, did I shoot my wife and my son?
MR. WATERS: Yes.
ALEX MURDAUGH: No. Would never hurt Maggie Murdaugh. I would never hurt Paul Murdaugh under any circumstances.
MR. WATERS: You say that.
ALEX MURDAUGH: Excuse me?
MR. WATERS: You say that, but you lied to Maggie, didn't you?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I did lie to Maggie.
MR. WATERS: You lied to Paul.
ALEX MURDAUGH: Sometimes.
MR. WATERS: You lied to your father.
ALEX MURDAUGH: I'm sure I did at some point.
MR. WATERS: Did you tell him all the stuff you had been up to over the years before he died?
ALEX MURDAUGH: No, I didn't tell him.
MR. WATERS: Did you lie to your brothers?
ALEX MURDAUGH: About financial things? I would have lied to Randy at some point, I'm sure.
MR. WATERS: Did you lie to him about the last time you saw your wife and son alive?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Did.
MR. WATERS: Did you lie to their wives?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I'm sure I did.
MR. WATERS: Did you lie to Marian Proctor?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Yes.
MR. WATERS: Did you lie to Bart Proctor?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Yes.
MR. WATERS: Did you lie to the Brandstetters?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Yes.
MR. WATERS: Did you lie to your best friend Chris Wilson?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Probably.
MR. WATERS: Did you lie to your other friend Barrett Boulware when you took his money?
ALEX MURDAUGH: No, sir, not -- I, I didn't lie. Like I told you, I didn't lie directly to him. I lied to him by omission like, like we talked about. I mean, he was -- I didn't talk to him. I didn't see him at that time.
MR. WATERS: Did you lie to your law partners?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I did.
MR. WATERS: Did you lie to them about the kennels?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Some of them.
MR. WATERS: Did you lie to Mark Ball?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Yeah, based on what Mark said, I believe I did.
MR. WATERS: Did you lie to Ronnie Crosby?
ALEX MURDAUGH: According to what he said, I believe I did.
MR. WATERS: Do you lie to Johnny Parker?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I don't believe I ever discussed that with Johnny.
MR. WATERS: Did you lie to him about the finances when you borrowed that money in July of 2021?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I don't know if I lied to him about -- Johnny, I don't think Johnny asked me. I don't think I had to lie to Johnny about that. So, I don't know.
MR. WATERS: Did you lie -- well, you didn't, certainly didn't disclose to him the truth when you borrowed that $250,000, did you?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I did not tell him what I was going to use it for.
MR. WATERS: I mean, didn't we have -- say before that not telling the whole truth is the same as telling a lie?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Sure it is.
MR. WATERS: You don't think that's a lie, though?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I don't -- I'm just saying, Mr. Waters, I'm not taking issue with that. But I, I don't even know that Johnny and -- I mean, Johnny loaned me money numerous times. It wasn't any long, sit down discussion where Johnny wanted to know exactly what I was doing with it. That conversation would have been I needed it. Johnny was always willing to help me, and that would have been the conversation. So, on that specific event, did I lie to him? I don't know.
MR. WATERS: Yeah, he ended up being out $477,000, didn't he?
ALEX MURDAUGH: He ended up being out a lot of money.
MR. WATERS: Thank you for your qualifications as to that. Did you lie to Lee Cope?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I don't know.
MR. WATERS: Okay.
ALEX MURDAUGH: I don't know if Lee Cope was around when I said that or not.
MR. WATERS: Did you lie to Danny Henderson?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I did lie to Danny.
MR. WATERS: Did you lie to Jeannie Seckinger?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I don't -- about finances? Yes, I did.
MR. WATERS: You don't ever -- didn't ever talk to her about the kennels?
ALEX MURDAUGH: No, I wouldn't think so.
MR. WATERS: Did you lie to Annette Griswold?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I did.
MR. WATERS: Did you lie to Kristi Jerrell, your other secretary, paralegal?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I don't believe she and I discussed that. I would have at some point, I'm sure.
MR. WATERS: Did you lie to Michael Gunn?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I'm sure I did at some point, but, I mean, Michael wasn't involved in any of this, so I don't know that any of this ever came up with Michael.
MR. WATERS: Did you lie to your clients? Did you lie to Pamela Pinckney?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I did.
MR. WATERS: Natasha Thomas?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I don't know that I dealt with Natasha, but I certainly lied about that.
MR. WATERS: Hakeem Pinckney?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Again, I don't know that I talked to Hakeem, but I certainly lied about that.
MR. WATERS: Arthur Badger?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I did.
MR. WATERS: The Plyler girls?
ALEX MURDAUGH: That's -- I'm not sure that I talked specifically to them, but I lied about that.
MR. WATERS: Deon Martin?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I lied to Deon.
MR. WATERS: Johnny Bush?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Yes.
MR. WATERS: Manuel Cristiani?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I didn't have any conversations with him, but I certainly lied about it.
MR. WATERS: Jamie Risher?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Yes.
MR. WATERS: Randy Drawdy?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Yes.
MR. WATERS: Jordan Jinks?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Yes.
MR. WATERS: Mary Duncan?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Yes.
MR. WATERS: Audriana Hay?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Yes.
MR. WATERS: Angel Guerry?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Yes.
MR. WATERS: Christopher Anderson?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Yes.
MR. WATERS: Elease Mallory?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Yes.
MR. WATERS: Thomas Moore?
MR. WATERS: You never lied to him. You just took his money and never actually had to lie to his face. Is that what you're saying?
ALEX MURDAUGH: He and I never had a conversation, but I did take that -- I did take those -- that money.
MR. WATERS: Did you lie to Tony Satterfield just a couple of months before June 7th?
MR. WATERS: You saw the text. You want me to get it out?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Just, just remind me. There's been a lot. Just remind me what it was.
MR. WATERS: I'm going to show you what's been marked as 463.
ALEX MURDAUGH: And I don't remember the exact date, so.
MR. WATERS: That was in April of 2021. Is that right, where you text him and tell him how hard you're working on the case when, in fact, you had stolen millions of dollars from him, Tony Satterfield, who got up on the stand and told the jury about that?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I texted him on April 12th. So, five weeks before June 7th.
MR. WATERS: Told him everything was okay. You're working hard, right? It's a complex case.
ALEX MURDAUGH: Yeah, I told him I was working on the case.
MR. WATERS: He was the son of your longtime housekeeper, Gloria.
ALEX MURDAUGH: I'm sorry?
MR. WATERS: He was the son of your longtime housekeeper, Gloria, who had served your family for many years.
ALEX MURDAUGH: That's correct.
MR. WATERS: And you stole millions from those boys.
ALEX MURDAUGH: I, I stole those funds.
MR. WATERS: He and his family had started asking questions as we moved to June 7th. Didn't that happen?
ALEX MURDAUGH: No. I mean, there wasn't any rise in them asking questions, no, sir. I mean, he periodically checked in and asked me questions, but, you know, it had come out long before this, I believe, in The Island Packet that there had been a settlement of $500,000. But, I mean, that had been months and months, if I'm not mistaken, and so I didn't notice any uptick in Tony asking questions, and I don't believe that there was any uptick in Tony asking questions before June the 7th.
MR. WATERS: So, you just, just gratuitously out of the blue decided to lie to him and send that text, or were there things going on externally that caused you to need to head him off at the pass before further questions started to be asked about money you couldn't pay back at that point?
ALEX MURDAUGH: No, I don't think there was anything. I mean, April 21st, I don't know what external factors you're talking about.
MR. WATERS: You want to explain that one any more?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Explain what?
MR. WATERS: Whatever you want.
ALEX MURDAUGH: I just want to answer your questions, Mr. Waters.
MR. WATERS: Lied to everyone about the side of the road, the people that came and stopped to help and the ambulance folks and the 911 and Ryan Kelly and the composite sketch artist and all of them, correct?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I lied to a lot of people about that.
MR. WATERS: You know why people lie, Mr. Murdaugh? Because they know they've done something wrong.
ALEX MURDAUGH: For the -- most time, I do.
MR. WATERS: You've been able to lie quickly and easily and convincingly if you think it'll save your skin for well over a decade. Isn't that true?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I have lied well over a decade.
MR. WATERS: And you want this jury to believe a story manufactured to fit the evidence that you brought forth just yesterday after hearing this trial's worth of testimony.
ALEX MURDAUGH: No. No, sir, that's not correct.
MR. WATERS: Mr. Murdaugh, we went through this for a while. Do you remember at the beginning of your testimony I asked you whether or not you agreed that trying to explain your presence on the kennel video was the most important part of your testimony before this jury? Remember that? And you said, oh, not the most important. I said was it at least important. You recall that from yesterday?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Yeah. I recall you asking those questions, yes, sir.
MR. WATERS: And you agree it's important, don't you?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I agreed that is an important component. I think there's a lot of important components.
MR. WATERS: And you testified during cross yesterday and cross today, kind of evolved on the fact of -- the factors that led you to decide to lie at some point during that interview with David Owen, correct?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I disagree with that. No, I don't think those factors have evolved. I mean, you've asked some more specific questions, but those factors are still the same factors. You, you may have asked questions and gained a little more detail, but those factors haven't changed.
MR. WATERS: But it was the dope paranoia. It was the fact that the deputy took your GSR. It was the fact that your law partners and Greg Alexander and the sheriff were telling you you needed to have a lawyer before you talked to police. It was a factor that you got in the car with Dave Owen and thought he was somebody else from some case ten years ago, correct?
ALEX MURDAUGH: That -- believing David Owens was the person involved in the case that I talked about was one of the factors that caused me to distrust SLED.
MR. WATERS: Right, and then also you said that they --
ALEX MURDAUGH: In general.
MR. WATERS: -- started asking you about, in that first interview, about your relationship with Maggie and Paul, and that's one thing you mentioned as well, correct?
ALEX MURDAUGH: That was certainly something that contributed to me having paranoid thinking.
(Break in proceedings.)
MR. WATERS: For the record, I'm playing the Daniel Greene, 2026.
(Excerpt of video was played. Audio not transcribed.)
MR. WATERS: That was Sergeant Greene, correct?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Yeah, that was Sergeant Greene.
MR. WATERS: And at that point in time, SLED was not there. No one had gotten GSR from you. Your law partners or Sheriff Hill were not there.
ALEX MURDAUGH: That's correct.
MR. WATERS: No one has asked you about your relationships. David Owen was not there.
ALEX MURDAUGH: That's correct.
MR. WATERS: But you still told the same lie, and all those reasons that you just gave this jury about the most important part of your testimony was a lie, too. Isn't that true, Mr. Murdaugh?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I disagree with that.
MR. WATERS: Nothing further.
JUDGE NEWMAN: Ladies and gentlemen, we'll take a break now. Please do not discuss the case.
(The jury left the courtroom.)
JUDGE NEWMAN: You may step down. Please do not discuss the case. We will take 15 minutes.
(A recess was taken.)
JUDGE NEWMAN: You may bring the jury.
MR. HARPOOTLIAN: Your Honor, can we talk about a scheduling matter? So.
JUDGE NEWMAN: Here comes the jury.
(The jury returned to the courtroom.)
COURT BAILIFF: The jury is present, sir.
JUDGE NEWMAN: All right. Thank you. Redirect.
MR. GRIFFIN: Thank you, Your Honor.
REDIRECT EXAMINATION
BY MR. GRIFFIN:
MR. GRIFFIN: Mr. Murdaugh, you spent a long time yesterday and fair amount of time today talking about financial misdeeds.
ALEX MURDAUGH: Yes, sir.
MR. GRIFFIN: Have you been charged for the financial crimes?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I have been.
MR. GRIFFIN: You have pending charges?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I do.
MR. GRIFFIN: You, you were asked specifically about $792,000 in Faris fees that, that you diverted from the law firm. You recall that?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Yes, sir.
MR. GRIFFIN: And, and I think you were asked about an accounting or, or, or where that money went. It went out pretty quickly roughly.
ALEX MURDAUGH: Yes, sir.
MR. GRIFFIN: And you recall testimony that over $500,000 went to Curtis Eddie Smith?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I do.
MR. GRIFFIN: And what would that have been for?
ALEX MURDAUGH: That would have all been for pills.
MR. GRIFFIN: For opioids?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Yes, sir. Specifically all I was taking at that time was oxycodone and Oxycontin.
MR. GRIFFIN: And you were -- you were an addict, were you not?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I am an addict.
MR. GRIFFIN: You are an addict, and did you repeatedly lie to those you love to cover up your addiction?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I did.
MR. GRIFFIN: And were you concerned that you would -- you would be exposed if you didn't continue to lie about your conduct?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I did.
MR. GRIFFIN: There are some specific things that you were asked about which I'd like to go over. One, one thing you had referred to, a text message that you'd seen later on between Maggie and Blanca. Do you recall that?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I do.
MR. GRIFFIN: And, and it's in the evidence as Defendant's Exhibit 54 and, Doug, if you could pull that up, please, sir? If you could highlight the Blanca text?
MR. GRIFFIN: Is this a text message you're referring to?
ALEX MURDAUGH: It is.
MR. GRIFFIN: And, and I'll just read it. It says: TY. That's thank you. It says: TY. I'm waiting at doctor. Alex wants me to come home. I had to leave door open at Edisto but trust Mexicans to shut and lock for me. His dad is back in the hospital. The last doctor claims not cancer. It's pneumonia. And then she has some faces. Alex is about to die. Hope he doesn't go down there to sleep. Alex needs to take care of himself as well. Is that the text message you're referring to?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Yes, sir.
MR. GRIFFIN: And did Blanca share this message with you after Maggie, Maggie was murdered?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Blanca first -- ultimately, she shared that with me. She first told me that, you know, Maggie was worried about me, how much she loved me, and that she was worried about me, and then texted her.
MR. GRIFFIN: Okay. Now, you were asked --
MR. GRIFFIN: You can take it down, Doug.
MR. GRIFFIN: You were asked questions about conversations around the dinner table on, on the 7th about -- well, didn't eat at the table but around where y'all were eating dinner -- about Paul's health. Is that correct?
ALEX MURDAUGH: That, that is correct.
MR. GRIFFIN: Alex, I'm going to show you two exhibits, Defendant's 179 and 180, and ask if you can identify these two.
ALEX MURDAUGH: Yeah, I can.
MR. GRIFFIN: And what are they?
ALEX MURDAUGH: It's a text from Mom. Let's see, it's a text from Paul-Paul to me on May the 30th.
MR. GRIFFIN: And then and what's, what's 180, Exhibit 180 behind it?
ALEX MURDAUGH: That's a picture of Paul-Paul, Paul-Paul's feet.
MR. GRIFFIN: Your Honor, we'd move Defendant's Exhibit 179 and 180 into evidence at this time without objection, I believe.
MR. WATERS: Without objection, Your Honor.
JUDGE NEWMAN: It's admitted.
(TEXT MESSAGE MARKED AS DEFENDANT'S EXHIBIT NUMBER 179 WAS RECEIVED INTO EVIDENCE.)
(PHOTO MARKED AS DEFENDANT'S EXHIBIT NUMBER 180 WAS RECEIVED INTO EVIDENCE.)
MR. GRIFFIN: So, if you can pull up -- do you have 179? Let me put it on the ELMO.
MR. GRIFFIN: Alex, does this text message refer to Paul's feet swelling?
ALEX MURDAUGH: They did.
MR. GRIFFIN: You can pull it up. Blow it up a little more so we can read it.
MR. GRIFFIN: And it says from Paul and that phone number. Is that your phone number?
ALEX MURDAUGH: That is. That's my phone number, 1227: My feet swoll up. It has something to do with my blood pressure. Get me an appointment as soon as it's convenient.
MR. GRIFFIN: And what's the date of this?
ALEX MURDAUGH: May the -- May the 30th.
MR. GRIFFIN: 2021, right?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Yes, sir.
MR. GRIFFIN: And, Doug, if you'll show the picture? This is a blow up of the picture that's Exhibit 180. Can you pull that out?
MR. GRIFFIN: Is that a picture that Paul has sent you of his feet swelling up?
ALEX MURDAUGH: It is.
MR. GRIFFIN: Is this what y'all discussed when you were eating dinner?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Yes, along with many other times.
MR. GRIFFIN: You'd also -- you were asked questions about your, your dad's condition and whether he was terminal or not. You remember that?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I do remember questions about him.
MR. GRIFFIN: Okay.
MR. GRIFFIN: And gosh, Doug, I think it's the extended timeline, State's 530. Is that the right one?
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: It's State's 530.
MR. GRIFFIN: State's 520, if you'll pull that up, please. This is that already into evidence. If you'll go to page 14 and if you'll blow up the, the entry at 1:42:54 at the bottom of the page.
MR. GRIFFIN: Alex, is this a text that you and, and -- do you recall this is a text that you and other family members received about your father's condition?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Yes, sir.
MR. GRIFFIN: Okay. It says: Daddy was just seen by the pulmonologist in Savannah. His opinion is dramatically different from the other doctors. He thinks Daddy has pneumonia and needs to be hospitalized to be treated for pneumonia. He thinks there could be an obstruction, but is more confident that it is all or mostly pneumonia. Daddy is being admitted to Candler Saint Joseph Hospital now. He will have a study done to see whether or not there is an obstruction, and his treatment will be tailored accordingly. Right now his pulmonologist does not --
MR. GRIFFIN: Go to the next page.
MR. GRIFFIN: -- does not believe that he'll be getting radiation treatment, and, in fact, the pulmonologist says that the palliative radiation treatment to try to open the airway is a hail Mary. His opinion will most likely not work. He then he goes on to say: If he is right and this is pneumonia and is much more treatable and can certainly give immunotherapy a chance to work. Is that what you're referring to?
ALEX MURDAUGH: That's the text I was talking about that came when talking to Jeannie Seckinger.
MR. GRIFFIN: And this wasn't a terminal diagnosis on the 7th, was it?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Not on the 7th. That was actually a little bit of positive news.
MR. GRIFFIN: Okay.
ALEX MURDAUGH: That was short lived, but it was positive at the time.
MR. GRIFFIN: You can take that down for now, Doug.
MR. GRIFFIN: The -- we'll stay on that exhibit. Alex, you were asked --
MR. GRIFFIN: If you'll go to page 46, please, of the same exhibit, 520, page 46, and if you'll highlight and blow out the 9:02:18 Alex Murdaugh's IPhone shows.
MR. GRIFFIN: Now, Alex, do you remember being asked about these steps, 283 steps traveled during this period of time?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I do.
MR. GRIFFIN: And I think you testified your belief was you were just getting ready to leave to go to your mom's house. Is that right?
ALEX MURDAUGH: That's correct, and that would have been the time I was -- right before I left to go there.
MR. GRIFFIN: And you were -- looks like you had made some phone calls during this period of time, correct?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Yes, the record show.
MR. GRIFFIN: Alex, did you have Maggie's phone with you at any time between 9:02 and 9:06?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I didn't have Maggie's phone with me any time that night.
MR. GRIFFIN: And, Doug, if you'll go to page 45, please? If you'll go to the entry at 8:53:15 to 8:55:32? What am I missing? Can you -- can you go -- you're missing it. Go up one more, the one that records the steps, please, and then take it all the way to the bottom. Thank you.
MR. GRIFFIN: This is in evidence. This is Agent Rudofski's timeline that says Maggie Murdaugh's phone. IPhone shows 59 steps traveled between 8:53:15 and 8:55:32. Were you walking with Maggie Murdaugh's phone during that period of time?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I wasn't walking with Maggie's phone any time that night.
MR. GRIFFIN: And if you'll look at Agent Rudofski's entries, is there entry of her phone showing steps during any time between 9:02 and 9:06? You see any on this page from 8:53 to 8:55?
ALEX MURDAUGH: No, sir.
MR. GRIFFIN: If you'll turn the next page, page 46.
MR. GRIFFIN: Going down to your steps, is there any recording of phone steps, phone recording steps according to the data we now have for Maggie's phone at any point in time up to 9:02?
ALEX MURDAUGH: No, sir.
MR. GRIFFIN: And had you repeatedly asked SLED to get the data from the OnStar from the cell phones to evaluate whether your phone and Maggie's phone, Maggie's phone was ever moving at the same time? You made that multiple request?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I repeatedly asked David Owens about that information.
MR. GRIFFIN: And when you asked that question, were you aware that Maggie's phone had been located down the road a mile or -- I mean, half a mile or more? Is that right?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Yeah, I knew where her phone had been located.
MR. GRIFFIN: And why was it -- why was it important to you to get that information?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Because I knew that whoever had done this to them had Maggie's phone, and I knew that my phone and Maggie's phone and my car were never together at any point in time.
MR. GRIFFIN: Now, you have given inaccurate times in many statements to law enforcement in this case, have you not?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I did.
MR. GRIFFIN: And we reviewed some of those on your direct examination. I mean, one was Paul getting to Moselle around 5:00 p.m. You remember that?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I do.
MR. GRIFFIN: Were you lying to Agent Owen or anybody when you said Paul got there at 5:00 p.m.?
ALEX MURDAUGH: No, I wasn't lying to him. I mean, I, I thought that at the time.
MR. GRIFFIN: And when you --
ALEX MURDAUGH: Most of the times when -- a lot of the times when I gave times, I qualified them and say but, you know, you can look at this. I pointed them to my office, to the call log, to the key card like we talked about, or my phone, or my OnStar.
MR. GRIFFIN: And when you told the agents that you thought you got to the office 8:30, 9:00 on that morning of June 7th, were you wrong, right?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I was wrong.
MR. GRIFFIN: Were you lying?
ALEX MURDAUGH: No, I wasn't lying.
MR. GRIFFIN: And when Deputy Greene drove up at first -- you had the first encounter with him. I believe you told him that you had been gone to your mom's house for an hour, hour and a half. Is that right? Just -- we just heard?
ALEX MURDAUGH: The, the last one?
MR. GRIFFIN: Yes.
ALEX MURDAUGH: Yeah, hour and a half. I think, I think that is what I told him.
MR. GRIFFIN: Hour and a half, and that the last time you saw Maggie and Paul was 45 minutes before that.
ALEX MURDAUGH: Yeah, that's what I said.
MR. GRIFFIN: And when you spoke to Agent Greene -- I mean Deputy Greene, it was about -- I think the records show they didn't arrive on the scene until 10:22 or something like that. Is that right?
ALEX MURDAUGH: That sounds right. I mean, I think that's what the records show. That sounds right.
MR. GRIFFIN: And that -- were you lying to Agent -- excuse me, Deputy Greene when you told him what time -- how long you thought you'd been at your mother's and the last time you saw Maggie and Paul?
ALEX MURDAUGH: No, sir, I wasn't lying to him.
MR. GRIFFIN: Were you trying to mislead him in any way?
ALEX MURDAUGH: No, sir, not when Mr. Greene got there.
MR. GRIFFIN: Now, you've admitted, first few questions that I asked you yesterday and multiple times today, that that you lied to Agent Owen and Deputy Rutland and Agent Owen and Agent Croft on a couple of occasions about your whereabouts following dinner, correct?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I did lie to them, as we discussed.
MR. GRIFFIN: And --
ALEX MURDAUGH: Repeatedly.
MR. GRIFFIN: And you've explained that it's this addiction, opioid induced paranoia you just couldn't shake. Is that right?
ALEX MURDAUGH: That's right. You know, like I said, there's certain things, anything, that make you paranoid, but I could get over it really quickly. But that night I didn't.
MR. GRIFFIN: And you had a bag of pills in your pocket, did you not?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I did.
MR. GRIFFIN: And when, when you got down to the kennels -- we're not going to repeat all that, but did you ever see anybody down there, anybody else?
ALEX MURDAUGH: No. There was nobody. There wasn't anybody down there when I was there.
MR. GRIFFIN: And did you believe that the information, whether you were there or not there, would advance their investigation in any way?
ALEX MURDAUGH: No, I didn't. I didn't think that.
MR. GRIFFIN: And why didn't you think that?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Because they were fine and doing good when I left there.
MR. GRIFFIN: Did -- on the, the 911 call, do you remember that the call first went to Hampton?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I don't remember that, but I know that now.
MR. GRIFFIN: And, and what we played here in court and your testimony was the Colleton County handoff. Do you recall that?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I, I do recall that. I think at some point the part in Hampton might have gotten played, too, didn't it? But I know the main part was to Colleton, the part that was, like, a minute into the call.
MR. GRIFFIN: But initially it went to Hampton. Then subsequently it was transferred to Colleton.
ALEX MURDAUGH: That's right.
MR. GRIFFIN: And then a minute or so into the Colleton call, you said I've been up to it now. You remember that?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I do remember saying that. I remember hearing it. I don't remember saying that, but I remember hearing it and that's -- I mean, that, that, that is accurate. And by up to it, at that point I had gone all the way up to them at that point. When I first got out I was close, but I wasn't right at them, I don't think.
MR. GRIFFIN: You were asked about the roadside shooting and, and your intent was to end your life that day, was it not?
ALEX MURDAUGH: It was, no question.
MR. GRIFFIN: And, and you were shot but not killed. And then you made up a lie to law enforcement about what happened, right?
ALEX MURDAUGH: That's correct.
MR. GRIFFIN: Were you trying to protect Curtis Eddie Smith by doing that?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Was I trying to protect Curtis Eddie Smith?
MR. GRIFFIN: Yes, sir.
ALEX MURDAUGH: I mean, I don't know exactly. It all had to come together so quick. I don't know that I was trying to protect Curtis Eddie Smith. I may have been, but it was just -- you know, I wasn't supposed to be there and then I was.
MR. GRIFFIN: When you say I wasn't supposed to be there, what do you mean by that?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I intended for him to -- I, I intended to be gone. I intended for him to shoot me, and I intended to be gone. And, and the one thing, the main -- my main concern at that point was that I did not want Buster -- I did not want Buster knowing that I had tried to do that. That was my motivation in telling that story.
MR. GRIFFIN: Did you eventually voluntarily convey to Agent Kelly and others that that was a fabrication?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I did. I did after, I don't know, a few days in, in detox when I finally got over those initial -- just where I could function, I think I told you first. Then I think I told Buster. Then I think I told Randy and John, and y'all arranged either the next day or two days later to come, and we called Ryan Kelly.
MR. GRIFFIN: Alex, you've lied to your family over many years, have you not?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I lied to my family about my addiction.
MR. GRIFFIN: And you hid from them you were stealing client money, did you not?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Oh, I never -- they, they didn't know anything about that.
MR. GRIFFIN: And you, you've lied to your law partners about financial dealings and perhaps your addiction.
ALEX MURDAUGH: Yes.
MR. GRIFFIN: And you've lied to law enforcement about not going down to the kennels after dinner, but eating dinner and taking a nap, did you not?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I did.
MR. GRIFFIN: Alex, did you murder Maggie?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I would never hurt Maggie.
MR. GRIFFIN: Did you murder Paul?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I would never hurt Paul. If I was under the pressure that they're talking about here, I can promise you I would hurt myself before I would hurt one of them, without a doubt.
MR. GRIFFIN: Thank you. That's all the questions I have.
JUDGE NEWMAN: Mr. Waters.
MR. WATERS: May it please the court?
RECROSS-EXAMINATION
BY MR. WATERS:
MR. WATERS: You said that you were concerned when you talked to David Owen about the bag of pills in your pocket, correct?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I mean, no, sir, I don't -- I'm, I'm not saying that I was concerned about that. I, I don't think I told you I was concerned about that. I'm just telling you that was -- that was a fact. I had a bag of pills in my pocket and that was one of the things that -- that was one of the many things that came together that night.
MR. WATERS: And you're trying to tell this jury that as a reasonable husband and father in this situation concerned about -- a bag of pills in your pocket was more important to you than telling law enforcement and narrowing the time when you last saw your wife and son alive? That's what you want to convince this jury of?
ALEX MURDAUGH: No, sir, because, I mean, the bag of pills in my pocket was not what I was concerned about sitting in there. It was, as I said, it was one of the many things that was going on, but I wasn't sitting there worried about those pills in my pocket.
MR. WATERS: You were asked about requesting the phone and automobile data. And that was because as a prosecutor and a lawyer, you had been manufacturing an alibi to cover your tracks.
ALEX MURDAUGH: No, sir, that's absolutely wrong.
MR. WATERS: You admit you were wrong about a lot of things in what you told law enforcement about June 7th, correct?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I was. I was wrong about things, some things.
MR. WATERS: You were asked whether or not you voluntarily confessed to Agent Kelly, but you only did so after being confronted with undeniable information, correct?
ALEX MURDAUGH: No, sir, that's, that's not correct at all. What I was told is that -- and I believe this came from Randy. What I was told is that SLED had come up with some information that seemed like it was consistent with my story and they needed me to verify some things is what they told me. And, you know, I knew that resources had already been wasted. I didn't want them wasting any more resources, and I told them the truth, but that -- there wasn't any -- nobody presented me with any evidence.
MR. WATERS: And you just testified that you told Jim Griffin first, correct?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I believe that I told Jim Griffin first.
MR. WATERS: But at that time, you didn't say anything about those kennels, did you?
ALEX MURDAUGH: To Jim Griffin at that time?
MR. WATERS: Correct.
ALEX MURDAUGH: No, sir, I didn't.
MR. WATERS: When you testified on direct yesterday and you were asked about leaving the kennels with your new story in light of the evidence that's been presented in this trial, your words were I got out of there, correct?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I believe that's what I said, yes, sir.
MR. WATERS: And you also said during your testimony, cross-examination, you hurt the ones you love the most, didn't you?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I did say that.
MR. WATERS: Thank you. Nothing further.
ALEX MURDAUGH: In, in saying that, Mr. Waters --
MR. WATERS: I said nothing further. Thank you.
ALEX MURDAUGH: I just want to explain that answer.
JUDGE NEWMAN: Pardon?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I mean, he just asked me a question about what I -- what I said, and I was going to explain why I said it.
JUDGE NEWMAN: All right.
ALEX MURDAUGH: As I told you earlier, you're implying to this jury and to me that that was me talking about hurting Maggie and Paul, and that's not what that was. What that was is me saying I know I hurt my brother, my partners, my clients, many of whom I told you I love, all of whom I cared for, and that's what that was when I'm talking about how my misdeeds -- how I hurt the people worst were the ones I love the most.
MR. WATERS: I just asked you what you said, correct?
ALEX MURDAUGH: You did ask me what I said, but in asking me that, you're, you're putting an implication on there that I am explaining.
MR. WATERS: I just asked you what you said.
ALEX MURDAUGH: Okay. Yes, sir.
MR. WATERS: Thank you. Nothing further.
JUDGE NEWMAN: You may step down.
(The witness exited the stand.)
MR. WATERS: Your Honor.
JUDGE NEWMAN: Let's all stand for a moment while counsel approaches.
(Break in proceedings.)
JUDGE NEWMAN: Be seated, please. Well, we've come to the end of this week, and we will return now and resume at 9:30 Monday morning. Have a great weekend. Do not discuss the case or allow yourself to be exposed to any information concerning the case, and we'll see you Monday morning. Have a great weekend.
(The jury left the courtroom.)
JUDGE NEWMAN: All right, everyone be seated, please. Regarding scheduling, first up Monday morning, Mr. Harpootlian?
MR. HARPOOTLIAN: Your Honor, we anticipate having four witnesses on Monday. They would probably average an hour apiece. I would suspect by lunchtime we would be ---
MR. GRIFFIN: Early afternoon.
MR. HARPOOTLIAN: --- early afternoon, I'm told by Mr. Griffin, resting our case. Of course, of course, Mr. Waters indicated he'll have one or two reply witnesses.
MR. WATERS: Couple right now, Your Honor. Obviously we need to assess that when they complete their case, but it would not be lengthy.
MR. HARPOOTLIAN: So, that begs the question: what day next week do we argue and charge?
JUDGE NEWMAN: Well, it's all unpredictable, as we can see from today.
MR. HARPOOTLIAN: Yes, sir.
JUDGE NEWMAN: It's pretty unpredictable.
MR. HARPOOTLIAN: Well, I'm guessing, I thought Tuesday. I don't think that's going to be if they have any reply witnesses -- Wednesday would be more of a target. I'm just saying a target date that we can begin thinking about in terms of argue and charge. To that end, are you going to set a time limit on arguments, or are you going to just let us do whatever we want?
JUDGE NEWMAN: I do not set time limits on argument.
MR. HARPOOTLIAN: Okay. With that in mind, Mr. Griffin and I -- I mean, they get two arguments. We perhaps would like to split our final argument, which we think with four weeks of testimony in there, it's going to be difficult for one person to digest all of that. There's no problem with that, is there?
MR. WATERS: Your Honor, I, I would object to that. I think Your Honor's rules and the general practice is consistent with one counsel handling argument.
MR. HARPOOTLIAN: I think, Your Honor, I've seen it done both ways, and four weeks of testimony, I think it's very difficult for one person -- we only get one argument.
JUDGE NEWMAN: I've never done it, and I'm not inclined to do it. I'll look it over and consider it, but I'm not inclined to allow the defense to split closing arguments.
MR. HARPOOTLIAN: We would agree to a two hour limit. That may incentivize to look at this.
JUDGE NEWMAN: We'll look at it. I'm not inclined to do it. It's unprecedented, as far as I know, in the State of South Carolina except perhaps where you've been able to convince someone to the contrary.
MR. HARPOOTLIAN: No, I've actually objected to it when I was on his side of the courtroom.
JUDGE NEWMAN: Well, we have some days to think about that.
MR. HARPOOTLIAN: Yes, sir.
JUDGE NEWMAN: Regarding closing arguments, I think we emailed you all a few days ago concerning any requested charge or charges that you might haves.
MR. WATERS: Yes, sir. We'll get those to you this weekend, if that's acceptable.
MR. HARPOOTLIAN: We'll try to do that, Your Honor, but we're preparing witnesses. How about Monday night?
JUDGE NEWMAN: Fine. Anything else before we adjourn?
MR. WATERS: Nothing from the State, Your Honor.
MR. HARPOOTLIAN: Nothing from the defense, Your Honor.
JUDGE NEWMAN: Okay, 4:49. We are adjourning for the weekend.
(Whereupon, the case was at ease.)