Alex Murdaugh — Direct/Cross
2,265 linesThe witness, RICHARD ALEXANDER MURDAUGH, was first duly sworn and testified as follows:
COURT CLERK: If you'll have a seat on the witness stand. Adjust that microphone, and if you don't mind stating your name again and spelling your last name.
ALEX MURDAUGH: I'm Alex Murdaugh, M-u-r-d-a-u-g-h.
DIRECT EXAMINATION
BY MR. GRIFFIN:
ALEX MURDAUGH: Good morning.
MR. GRIFFIN: Good morning. Mr. Murdaugh, on June 7, 2021, did you take this gun or any gun like it and shoot your son, Paul, in the chest in the feed room at your property off Moselle Road?
ALEX MURDAUGH: No, I did not.
MR. GRIFFIN: Mr. Murdaugh, did you take this gun or any gun like it and blow your son's brains out on June 7th or any day or any time?
ALEX MURDAUGH: No, I did not.
MR. GRIFFIN: Mr. Murdaugh, did you take a 300 Blackout such as this and fire it into your wife, Maggie's, leg, torso, or any part of her body?
ALEX MURDAUGH: No, I did not.
MR. GRIFFIN: Did you shoot a 300 Blackout into her head, causing her death?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Mr. Griffin, I didn't shoot my wife or my son any time. Ever.
MR. GRIFFIN: Mr. Murdaugh, is that you on the kennel video at 8:44 p.m. on June 7th the night Maggie, Maggie and Paul were murdered?
ALEX MURDAUGH: It is.
MR. GRIFFIN: Were you, in fact, at the kennels at 8:44 p.m. on the night Maggie and Paul were murdered?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I was.
MR. GRIFFIN: Did you lie to SLED Agent Owen and Deputy Laura Rutland on the night of June 7th and told them that you stayed at the house after dinner?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I did lie to them.
MR. GRIFFIN: Did you lie to Agent Owen and Agent Croft in the follow-up interview on June 10th that the last time you saw Maggie and Paul was at dinner?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I did lie to them.
MR. GRIFFIN: And then the interview of August 11th, did you tell Agent Owen and Agent Croft -- did you lie to them by telling them that you were not down at the kennels on that night?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Yes.
MR. GRIFFIN: Alex, why did you lie to Agent Owen, Agent Croft, and Deputy Rutland about the last time you saw Maggie and Paul?
ALEX MURDAUGH: As my addiction evolved over time, I would get in these situations or circumstances where I would get paranoid thinking, and it could, it could be anything that, that triggered. It might be a look somebody gave me; it might be a reaction somebody had to something I did. It might be a policeman following me in, in a car. That night, June 7th, after finding Mags and Paul, Paul-Paul, don't talk to anybody without Danny with you. All my partners were just repeatedly telling me that. I had a deputy sheriff taking gunshot test from my hands. I'm sitting in a police car with David Owen asking me about my relationship with my wife and my son. And all those things, coupled together after finding them, coupled with my distrust for SLED, caused me to have paranoid thoughts. Normally when these paranoid thoughts would hit me, I could take a deep breath real quick, just think about it, reason my way through it, and just get past it really quickly. On June the 7th, I wasn't thinking clearly; I don't think I was capable of reason. And I lied about being down there, and I'm so sorry that I did. I'm sorry to my son Buster. I'm sorry to Grandmar, Papa T. I'm sorry to both of our families. Most of all, I'm sorry to Mags and Paul-Paul. I would never intentionally do anything to hurt either one of them ever. Ever.
MR. GRIFFIN: Yet you continued lying after that night, did you not?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Once I lied, I continued to lie, yes, sir.
MR. GRIFFIN: Why?
ALEX MURDAUGH: You know, oh what a tangled web we weave. But once I told the lie and I told my family, I, I had to keep lying.
MR. GRIFFIN: Alex, tell the jury. What happened on the evening of June 7th, starting when you met up with Paul.
ALEX MURDAUGH: I'd been at work that day, a fairly normal day. You mean start in the morning or?
MR. GRIFFIN: Sure, start in the morning.
ALEX MURDAUGH: It was just a regular morning. Maggie was leaving to go out of town. She was, she was going to a doctor's appointment, and she had some stuff to do at Edisto where she was having some work done on our house at Edisto. So -- but Maggie was there that morning. She went to leave and, and she told me she was doing these things. I always, always asked Maggie to come back home and stay with me. But anyway, Maggie had left. She did her thing. I went to work, did work. I learned from Paul-Paul that --
MR. GRIFFIN: Who's Paul-Paul?
ALEX MURDAUGH: That's Paul, my son Paul-Paul. My son Paul Murdaugh.
MR. GRIFFIN: And you -- and your name for him is Paul-Paul?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Yeah. We -- I mean, we called him Paul-Paul.
MR. GRIFFIN: Okay. Go ahead. I'm sorry.
ALEX MURDAUGH: And, I mean, Buster, Maggie, I, I pretty much called him Paul-Paul or Paul-Terry. Mags called him Paul-Paul. Bus called him Paul-Paul. A lot of people called him Paul-Paul. But anyway, I learned about the -- I'd known that CB, the guy that worked for us, had sprayed the sunflowers. I, I knew about that, but I'd been out of town. I didn't know they were dead. Paul let me know they had died. So, we had to replant the dove field. That, that's the dove field, which the dove field's just a big, big social part of, of, of having property. People would come and it's just a social -- big part of it. So, the dove field was a big deal. So, when, when the sunflowers got killed, Paul was -- when we knew they were dead, Paul was coming home, and I learned that early Monday morning.
MR. GRIFFIN: And did -- we'll catch back up, but at some point in time, did you meet up with Paul?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Yeah. After work I met Paul-Paul at the, at the property.
MR. GRIFFIN: And up and -- we're going to go back and we're going to talk about more of the day, but I just want to focus in on that evening right now.
ALEX MURDAUGH: Okay.
MR. GRIFFIN: When Paul gets to the property, what do y'all do?
ALEX MURDAUGH: First thing we do is we go to the dove field and, and we, and we look at the Dove field and --
MR. GRIFFIN: How do you get to the dove field?
ALEX MURDAUGH: He had come in my brother's truck. We got in my son Buster's black pickup truck. We called it Buster's truck or the black pickup truck you've heard it called, too, but I call it Buster's truck.
MR. GRIFFIN: Okay, so you're in Buster's truck and you go to the dove field. Tell the jury what else.
ALEX MURDAUGH: Well, that's the first thing we do. We, we go to the dove field, and we look and it's clearly -- it didn't -- you could tell they were -- I mean, you could tell they'd been sprayed and you could tell they were dead. I mean, they might have still had a tiny bit of life, but they were dead. So, we knew that. So, we knew we had to replant the whole field. So, that didn't take but a second. But after that, Paul-Paul, we just rode the property. We spent time together. We, we just, we rode around and we spent time together on the property.
MR. GRIFFIN: Did you go to the duck pond?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Oh, yeah, we went, we went to several food plots. We went to single oak stand, we called it, which is across the road. I know we went to the bridge stand. We went to the, we went to the duck pond where we stayed for a minute and --
MR. GRIFFIN: Did you --
ALEX MURDAUGH: -- I can remember the duck pond specifically because I had helped Paul-Paul plant the dove field and, and the corn in the dove field. So, sunflowers, corn, sunflowers, corn. I had helped him plant the sunflowers, but the corn was in the dove field. Paul-Paul had planted the duck pond by himself, and he's making a really big deal to me about how much better the corn was doing in the duck pond than it was in the dove field. We stayed there for a little while. We rode. We were at the cabin for a little while. We rode around the cabin looking at it.
MR. GRIFFIN: The cabin is what?
ALEX MURDAUGH: That's -- it's just a, a little small -- it's truly a cabin. It's a, it's a four-room structure. It's, it's got a little living area, a little kitchen. It's got two little bedrooms and one little bathroom, and that's what you've heard talk about where the kids stayed some summers and --
MR. GRIFFIN: And is that what the jury's seen some overhead pictures? It's right there on Moselle Road?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Yeah. It's right, it's right up on Moselle Road and it's very close to the, the, the driveway that goes to the shop and the kennels.
MR. GRIFFIN: Did you spend any time at the shop?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Oh, yes. I mean, the shop was -- I mean, that was sort of the hub. That, that was the main place. If you weren't at the house, you might be out going to this field or this food plot or this duck pond or, or, or this part of the river. But the, the, the shop is where the kennels were located. You know, that was -- you were always there. Something was always going on there. You were always doing something there. That's where all the tools were; that's where all the equipment was kept. I mean, that was, that was the main hub. And so we were there that day. I mean, there was a point in time where we unloaded the bulldozer that, that had been on a different part of the property, was on a trailer. We loaded, unloaded it, and sprayed it down real quick. That was just one of the many things we did that day.
MR. GRIFFIN: One of the things the jury's seen, Alex, is a Snapchat video of you and, and doing something with a tree. Do you remember that?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Oh, yeah, I --
MR. GRIFFIN: So what, what was happening there?
ALEX MURDAUGH: That's just part of when we were, we were riding, that, that particular location where that was is at a food plot that, that we called Sawtooth Oaks, and it was named that because there were some sawtooth oaks that were planted there that you can't see in the picture. But what that tree is -- at all these food plots, there's an area where -- it's not as big as the field, but it's like a field where you plant vegetation for wildlife. Like, it might be cowpeas or soybeans, but you plant and then there's a feeder to, to, to attract deer. Then we planted these little fruit trees on, on these stands, and what you see me doing is fooling with a fruit tree that I'd been tending to it. It, it had fallen over. I had straps on it. I had strings on it that would hold it up. One of the strings -- I undid the other string and it was falling over, and Paul-Paul was laughing at me trying to get it back upright, and that was -- it was just a fruit tree that I'd been dealing with for -- really for years.
MR. GRIFFIN: And, and --
ALEX MURDAUGH: And it wouldn't stand up straight.
MR. GRIFFIN: And were you and Paul having a good time?
ALEX MURDAUGH: You could not be around Paul-Paul -- you could not be around him and not have a good time.
MR. GRIFFIN: Were you, were you close to Paul?
ALEX MURDAUGH: You couldn't be any closer that Paul-Paul and I and Buster and I were and are. He's just a wonderful, wonderful person.
MR. GRIFFIN: And is one of the things you enjoyed doing together was just riding the property?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I loved doing anything with Paul-Paul. He was a absolute delight. But, yeah, one of the things -- I mean, Paul's passion -- I mean, Paul was passionate about a lot of things, but that property was really a passion of his. I mean, he loved to do -- he'd loved to work and he loved to work with fields. He loved to work with food plots. He loved to hunt. I mean he -- he'd work on the roads. I mean, he would, he would work on all of it. I mean, he would work on the structure. He, he would -- he, he worked on the whole property. It was, it was his passion.
MR. GRIFFIN: So, on the evening of the 7th, and the jury's been inundated with data from various different sources, but --
ALEX MURDAUGH: Sure.
MR. GRIFFIN: -- just ballpark. I mean, can you, knowing what we know now from viewing everything, but roughly when do you remember Paul getting there and you getting there and starting to ride the property?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Now that I've had the benefit of, of seeing all of these records, Paul-Paul got home, I believe, a little bit before 7:00, and I got home a little bit before him. I think the details have been that I got home around 6:42 or 6:45 or something like that, and Paul got there very quickly thereafter.
MR. GRIFFIN: And then --
ALEX MURDAUGH: By 7:00.
MR. GRIFFIN: So, you rode the property for a while. Do you remember when Maggie arrived?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Yeah, it was, it was later than that. It was 8 or after 8. I think it was after 8 in looking at the records, a little bit after 8.
MR. GRIFFIN: And, and do you remember, do you remember her arriving or where you were when she arrived?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I believe that I was at the shop when, when she came through, which would not be unusual for her, having been away. If Blanca had gotten the mail or somebody had gotten the mail, maybe not. But if somebody had not gotten the mail, it would be perfectly normal for her to pull through there. And I believe she did pull through there that day. And Paul and I were at the shop, I believe.
MR. GRIFFIN: And then what, what did you do after Maggie arrived?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Maggie went to the house, and I know that. But shortly after, however, I learned that Maggie got home, I went to the house when Maggie got home, and I left Paul at the shop.
MR. GRIFFIN: So -- and what did you do when you got to the house?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I saw Mags, talked to Mags, and I took a shower.
MR. GRIFFIN: The clothes that we saw in that Snapchat video, was that the clothes you had on at work that day?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Yes, that -- those are the clothes I had on at work that day.
MR. GRIFFIN: And the, and the jury's seen you in those clothes and what's -- on June 7th, how tall were you and how much did you weigh?
ALEX MURDAUGH: On June 7th? Well, I'm, I'm 6, a little -- I'm a hair over 6-4, right at 6-4. On June the 7th, I was about 265 pounds, 264, 265.
MR. GRIFFIN: And, and this was in June, June 7th.
ALEX MURDAUGH: Yes, sir.
MR. GRIFFIN: When you're outside riding around and just -- do you get hot and sweaty?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Absolutely. I mean, Paul and I had done some things. We, we unloaded the bulldozer, cleaned the bulldozer. We fooled around. Yeah, I mean, I sweated. I was, you know, I was heavy, and taking prescription pills also makes you sweat worse, or at least taking oxycodone makes you sweat more than you normally do.
MR. GRIFFIN: So, was it unusual for you to take a shower when you got back to the house?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Not at all.
MR. GRIFFIN: And when you -- after you took a shower, what did you change into?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I changed into the clothes that you've seen in this trial: shorts and the shirt.
MR. GRIFFIN: When you got out of the shower and changed clothes, what did you do next?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I went back out where Mags and Paul-Paul were and --
MR. GRIFFIN: What were --
ALEX MURDAUGH: -- for dinner.
MR. GRIFFIN: What were they doing? What's going on?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Mags had -- as you've heard, Blanca had prepared dinner, but it had been cooked earlier. Mags had fixed -- I know Mags had fixed mine and her plate because I didn't fix a plate. She may have fixed Paul-Paul -- Paul-Paul was eating and Paul-Paul was almost done eating by the time I got back out, which also wasn't unusual. I mean, Paul-Paul was always on the go. I mean, he, he never sat still. And, you know, he'd sit down to eat, but then he's going on to his next item.
MR. GRIFFIN: And --
ALEX MURDAUGH: So then Maggie and I ate.
MR. GRIFFIN: And did y'all eat at the table? Do you eat in the den? What's your normal habit?
ALEX MURDAUGH: We would do both but, I mean, when we ate at the table, it was really sort of more formal or -- or not formal, but just more of a organized thing. Our normal -- what we would normally do on a regular evening is we would eat in the den in front of the TV, and that's where we ate that day. I ate on the couch. The table -- Maggie had a little -- a TV tray that she kept over there and, and Paul-Paul would usually sit in a recliner and, and eat off of the ottoman.
MR. GRIFFIN: Was the TV on?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Yes.
MR. GRIFFIN: Was that normal for the TV to be on?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Yes. TV, if we were in the house, the TV was on.
MR. GRIFFIN: So, what, what happened next, Alex?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Paul-Paul moved on doing whatever he was doing. I, I don't know if he was in the gun room doing something or he was in his room doing something, he was outside doing something. I actually thought he'd gone to the shed, but in looking at -- to the shop, but in looking at the -- the, the benefit of having these records that we have, I know he was still at the house or somewhere around the house doing something, but he wasn't in there with Maggie and I. But Maggie wanted to go to the kennels, and I had eaten dinner. I laid back on the couch where I was sitting. Maggie wanted to go to the kennels and she asked me to go and, and I didn't. I didn't go at that time. I didn't want to go.
MR. GRIFFIN: Why? Why didn't you want to go?
ALEX MURDAUGH: It was hot. I had just had a shower. I knew I'd end up doing more work, sweating more and, and the dogs is always a chaotic scene, and I just didn't want to go right then.
MR. GRIFFIN: Well, let me ask you. What had you done the previous days like Friday and Saturday and Sunday?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Start with Friday or go backwards?
MR. GRIFFIN: Yes. Yeah, yeah. Start with Friday.
ALEX MURDAUGH: All right, on that --
MR. GRIFFIN: Just, just briefly.
ALEX MURDAUGH: So the 7th, 6th, 5th, 4th. So, June the 4th my dad was in the hospital in Savannah, Georgia, at Memorial Hospital, and I went down to visit him Friday afternoon, and I stayed with him in the hospital. I spent the night there. You know, he was real sick. I mean, he was having a hard time.
MR. GRIFFIN: Did you get much sleep Friday night?
ALEX MURDAUGH: No. I mean, I had -- a, a real sweet nurse found me -- at first there was just a hard chair in there like this, but a nurse found me a soft chair sort of like a recliner. So, I mean, I -- I'm sure I slept, but I didn't sleep. You know, I didn't get a night's sleep, no, sir.
MR. GRIFFIN: And then Saturday and Sunday?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Saturday we had plans with, with Buster and Brooklynn. Y'all've heard about Brooklynn, who's Buster's wonderful little girlfriend, and Mags and I had plans with them to meet them in Columbia to go to the South Carolina -- it was a regional baseball tournament. South Carolina was playing Virginia, I believe. So, when I got back from Savannah and, and met up with Mags, at some point we, we, we headed to Columbia. So, I mean, it wasn't a lot going on in between there. We headed up to Columbia and met Bus and Brooklynn.
MR. GRIFFIN: And did you stay? Did you stay in Columbia Saturday night?
ALEX MURDAUGH: We did. We went to the ball game, and I remember it was an evening game. We went pretty early and tailgated. Maggie and -- Maggie had reconnected with a college friend, who coincidentally had married a college friend of mine, and they had a son that played for Carolina. He was a first baseman and a really good little player, and we met them and tailgated with them, and it, it was a lot of fun. They had a lot of the parents of the players that were playing for Carolina, and it was just -- it was, it was a fun time. We tailgated and then we went to -- and it was a night game. So, we went to the game and the game got over. You know, it was fairly late into the evening, and after that Bus, Brooklynn, and Mags and I, I believe we went to the restaurant in the hotel where we were staying, but we went and had dinner and, and, and then Bus and Brooklynn went home and, of course, Maggie and I went to our room.
MR. GRIFFIN: And get up the next day. Is there another game?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Another game the next day, that's right, and --
MR. GRIFFIN: And then you after that, you head back to Moselle with Maggie.
ALEX MURDAUGH: Yeah, we went to the game. That's right, Mags and I go back to --
MR. GRIFFIN: Moselle.
ALEX MURDAUGH: -- Moselle.
MR. GRIFFIN: And the jury's heard about, I think, Ms. Rast talking about you bringing Krispy Kreme Donuts to your dad.
ALEX MURDAUGH: Maggie loved it. She, she spoiled my dad. You know, always, always taking something -- my dad loved sweets and she and I picked up donuts and took Krispy Kreme donuts to him.
MR. GRIFFIN: And then did y'all both spend the night together at Moselle on Sunday night?
MR. WATERS: Object to the form, Your Honor.
MR. GRIFFIN: Did you both spend the night at Moselle on Sunday night?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Yes.
MR. GRIFFIN: And then the 7th was a work day.
MR. WATERS: Objection to the form, Your Honor.
ALEX MURDAUGH: That's right, it was a Monday, Monday, June the 7th.
MR. GRIFFIN: Hang on a second. I'll rephrase it.
ALEX MURDAUGH: I'm sorry.
MR. GRIFFIN: Was Monday the 7th a work day for you?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Yes.
MR. GRIFFIN: And I just wanted to get background instead of moving forward. When you testified previously about Maggie asking you to go to the kennels, were you tired?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Oh, yes, I was tired.
MR. GRIFFIN: And you'd just had a shower.
ALEX MURDAUGH: Just had a shower.
MR. GRIFFIN: And, and you said that -- well, did you go with Maggie to the kennels?
MR. GRIFFIN: Immediately?
ALEX MURDAUGH: No, I did not.
MR. GRIFFIN: What do you do? Well, did she leave?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Yes, she did. She left and Paul-Paul was gone.
MR. GRIFFIN: You know how she got to the kennels?
ALEX MURDAUGH: At the time I didn't, but now looking at these condensed records and, and understanding the timeline, it's clear to me that she rode with Paul-Paul.
MR. GRIFFIN: And, and did you stay in the house?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Yes.
MR. GRIFFIN: For how long?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Not long. I laid back on the couch, put my feet up, and like many times when Maggie asked me to do something that I didn't want to do or didn't start out doing, I changed my mind and decided I'm going to ride up there, and I did.
MR. GRIFFIN: And how, how did you get to the kennels?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I went on the golf cart.
MR. GRIFFIN: Was it -- was the golf cart at the house?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Yeah, it was, and it was there most of the time.
MR. GRIFFIN: And when you got down to the kennels, what was happening?
ALEX MURDAUGH: It -- just what I thought it was. It was a little bit of chaos. I mean, it was clear to me that Mags had just let the dogs out. The two dogs that were out were really her pet dogs. One is Grady. You've heard about a black lab. That's Grady. That's Buster's dog. And the other is the yellow lab that you've heard about. That's Bubba. Bubba was mine and Maggie's dog, but it was really mine and Maggie's, Bus, and Paul-Paul's dog. It was a family dog, but Bubba's the dog I hunted. I mean, Maggie loved Bubba. She loved Grady, too, but, I mean, she had a special place for Bubba. But anyway, when the dogs first were let out, the first thing they would do is they would run. You, you -- if you look at the overhead picture that you've seen, there were planted pines right behind the kennels. So, you got the kennels and, and, and the chicken coop sort of form an L shape. In that L was some planted pines. First thing the dogs would do is go out in that kennel. And, you know, Bubba -- and, and Grady, I think, learned this from Bubba, but Grady would do it, too, but Bubba had to mark every tree. I mean, he, he, he would go and he'd do a little number on this tree and that tree. You know how dogs do, and that's marking his territory. And so that was the first thing those dogs did when they came out. When I got there, those dogs were in that area. So, that's why I believe that it hadn't been long before they'd been let out. Grady was chasing guineas, which was a normal thing to do.
MR. GRIFFIN: What, what are guineas?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Guinea fowl is -- a guinea fowl is like -- it's like a chicken. It's a domestic bird that -- you know, we had them. They make a lot of racket. It's like a -- you know, I know this sounds silly, but it's like a, a guard bird because any time -- you know, they just make a lot of racket any time anything unusual is going on. If anything, if anything disturbs them -- could be a person, it could be somebody driving up, whatever -- they're going to make a lot of racket. So, Grady's chasing the guineas. You know, Paul's fooling with Rogan's dog, Cash. Maggie's just kind of standing there watching the dogs, which is normal, and, and they were in that place. As the dogs are out longer, they branch out more, but at that point in time they were, they were right there. So, that told me they hadn't been out a long time. Bubba, Bubba catches the chicken. I'm talking to Maggie for just, you know, a short time before Bubba catches the chicken. I take the chicken, put it -- when Bubba -- Bubba didn't chase -- these dogs didn't chase the chickens to kill them and they didn't normally kill them. They did kill them sometimes, but it was about the chase with those dogs and, and, and they were proud when they caught one. You could just tell by the way Bubba would prance to you when he brought a chicken to you. He was proud that he had caught it, but he wasn't trying to kill it. And so most times the chicken wasn't dead, and that chicken wasn't dead. But a lot of times they would be stunned and they would be just real lethargic. So, you had to take the chicken and you had to put it up somewhere where, you know, the chicken could be by itself for a minute. And it would eventually usually, you know, come back to normal and go on about its -- you know, whatever a chicken does.
MR. GRIFFIN: Did you get the chicken out of Bubba's mouth?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I did. I took the chicken from Bubba, and I put it on, on top of that.
MR. GRIFFIN: Now we've seen, you know, this video of Paul with Cash, Rogan's dog. Did you know -- did you know what was going on? What, what do you remember about that, about --
ALEX MURDAUGH: Yeah, I knew Paul was, I knew Paul was fooling with -- when I pulled up on the golf cart, Maggie was standing back sort of where the driveway would be. It sort of runs out at the feed room. The storage room is what we call it. It's been called the feed room, but it sort of ran out. Maggie was a little bit further up where she could see back in that angle where the dogs were. Paul was fooling with Rogan's dog back towards the kennel. If I remember when I first got there, Paul was more in the driveway, but then I knew Paul was in the kennel fooling with Cash, yes, but did I know what he was doing? I didn't know exactly what he was doing, no.
MR. GRIFFIN: Did you --
ALEX MURDAUGH: I knew he was fooling with his -- I knew he was fooling with his tail.
MR. GRIFFIN: Was Cash in the kennel when you pulled up, you think?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Not when I first got there.
MR. GRIFFIN: Did Bubba and Grady have any collars on?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Yes.
MR. GRIFFIN: Which? Both dogs? One dog? You remember?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I don't know about Grady, but I know Bubba had on his -- what we call a tracking collar. Paul, for his hunting dogs, Paul had a system, a series of tracking collars, and I think there were five. It might have been six, but there's a tracking collar that had a device that would tell you where that collar was. So, that was -- Bubba was bad about -- you know, he would, he would stay close for a minute, but then he would take off and he'd especially do that on Maggie. He would, he would take off and run, and so he had on the tracking collar that if he did that, you could, you know, you, you could know, okay, he's, you know, half a mile down here. It's not going to follow him but so far, but it would follow a good long distance so you could go get the dog if he ran off, which Bubba frequently would do, especially when it was just Mags and Bubba. And so Paul-Paul probably would have been the one to put that on Bubba.
MR. GRIFFIN: So, you've got us where you've gotten the chicken out of Bubba's mouth and put it up on a dog house or something.
ALEX MURDAUGH: I believe, I believe what I put it on -- and I don't remember this, but I've seen pictures in all this and I saw the chicken sitting on top of the -- what looks to me like a portable dog crate. Whatever, wherever it was sitting on there is where I would have put it up there. I don't believe there would be any reason to believe anybody else moved that chicken, and it ultimately -- that chicken did die.
MR. GRIFFIN: And what did you do after you got the chicken out of Bubba's mouth?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I got out of there. I, I, I left. I went back to the house.
MR. GRIFFIN: Well, before we do that, we've seen the dog kennel video with Cash and Mr. Davis, and we slowed it down for him. Do you see the water hose in that video on the ground? Do you remember seeing that?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Yes, I do.
MR. GRIFFIN: Was the water hose out?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Obviously in the video, but can -- I don't specifically remember that, but I can look in that video and see it.
MR. GRIFFIN: Right.
ALEX MURDAUGH: But that's not something that I noticed.
MR. GRIFFIN: So -- but you've seen it in the video here.
ALEX MURDAUGH: Yes, sir.
MR. GRIFFIN: And then the two dogs were out.
ALEX MURDAUGH: Absolutely, Bubba and Grady.
MR. GRIFFIN: And then you, you had -- how did you get back to the house?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Same route. I mean, the same route I'd come on. I came down the driveway, made a left on -- you, you saw my route in the car. I mean, I drove that same route.
MR. GRIFFIN: My question wasn't -- obviously wasn't clear enough. What -- were you in a vehicle? Were you walking? What mode of transportation did you use to get back to the house?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Same way I came. I went back in the golf cart and, and it was the golf cart, if you remember, that Mark Ball testified that he saw. Where we normally would park it, you pull up, pull along the, the, the front entrance, and you come in from the left, and you go just past it. It'd be on the right, and you come in from the right and you'd be just past it on the left, and that's where I got in it, and that's where I put it back.
MR. GRIFFIN: Did you do anything else before leaving after you took the chicken out of Bubba's mouth?
MR. GRIFFIN: We've heard about Bubba being stubborn. How long did it take you to get the chicken out of Bubba's mouth?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Well, Bubba could be stubborn, but Bubba would listen to me and not -- and, and, and another thing. When Bubba had on that collar, one of the other features of that collar was --
MR. GRIFFIN: Well, did Bubba have on a collar or was it Grady?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Bubba had on the collar.
MR. GRIFFIN: Bubba had the collar.
ALEX MURDAUGH: I know Bubba had a collar, and I'm not sure about Grady.
MR. GRIFFIN: Okay.
ALEX MURDAUGH: If I misspoke on that, there's no question about it. Bubba had on a collar. I assume Grady did, too, but I didn't, I didn't -- even though I saw Grady, I didn't notice for a fact that Grady had on a collar.
MR. GRIFFIN: Okay.
ALEX MURDAUGH: But he probably did.
MR. GRIFFIN: So.
ALEX MURDAUGH: Makes sense to me that he did.
MR. GRIFFIN: How long did it take you to get the chickens out of --
MR. GRIFFIN: -- chicken out of Bubba's mouth?
ALEX MURDAUGH: It didn't take -- it didn't take long. Number one, Bubba's coming back there to show me, hey, I've caught this chicken, so he's not running from me. He's proud of that fact that he caught this chicken. So, I mean, he's -- he comes right up to me. Bubba was really strong, but, you know, you just -- you take your thumb when the dogs clench and his mouth's a little bit open. All you do is you take your thumb and you push his gum in really tight against those sharp teeth, and his mouth opens right up. Took the chicken out and put it on, I believe, the portable dog kennel.
MR. GRIFFIN: And then left.
ALEX MURDAUGH: And then I left.
MR. GRIFFIN: Then you leave, and did you go back to the house?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I went straight back to the house, to the air conditioning.
MR. GRIFFIN: And what did you do when you got back to the house?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I laid down on the couch.
MR. GRIFFIN: And then what? Well, let me -- was the TV on when you went back?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Yeah. I mean, the TV never got cut off.
MR. GRIFFIN: So, you went back to the house. You laid down on the couch. Then what happened next?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I'm not, I'm not positive I dozed off for a minute or didn't doze off for a minute. But I got up off of the couch and I was -- I made up my mind I was going to visit my mom.
MR. GRIFFIN: Had you spoken to Barbara Mixon earlier in the day?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I did.
MR. GRIFFIN: And --
ALEX MURDAUGH: I talked to Barbara most days. If I didn't see her, I talked to her.
MR. GRIFFIN: And what was your understanding of your mother's condition on -- late on the afternoon of the 7th?
ALEX MURDAUGH: She was agitated, which she got agitated when my dad, you know -- I mean, we were putting my dad in the hospital. I mean, he had a lot -- over the eighteen months, two years. I mean, my dad was in the hospital. He was in the hospital a lot, and my mom, I believe my mom knew when my dad wasn't there because, I mean, she would get agitated. I mean, that's just the only term you can think of. She'd get agitated. She, she -- she'd cry a lot. She -- she'd be fussy when she normally wouldn't be fussy. I mean, she was -- I know Alzheimer's patients are unpredictable, but I'm convinced she knew because it happened frequently. And Barbara Ann told me your mom's agitated. You need to check on her. I gave her medicine. She's resting. So, it wasn't anything urgent, but she's resting. So what, what Barbara would do -- and Barbara could handle her. Barbara could handle her better than -- I mean, my mama -- we all love Barbara. My mama loved Barbara. My mama could get -- I mean, Barbara could get my mom to do things that nobody else -- when she'd fuss for anybody else, including me or my brothers or my sisters, Barbara could get her, you know, in, in order and -- but Barbara had given her medicine and -- to settle her down, calm her down, and, and that would sometimes make her go to sleep for a little while, but then she'd be agitated when she woke up.
MR. GRIFFIN: So, did you go check on your mom?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I did.
MR. GRIFFIN: Did -- where did you park when you got there?
ALEX MURDAUGH: In the -- you saw the pictures. There's two exits off of that deck: one of them to the right, one of them straight out that back door. I would have parked to the left. If, if you're coming down these steps and if these are the steps, it would be to the left and back over there.
MR. GRIFFIN: All right.
ALEX MURDAUGH: Which is where I always park or where we always park any time you were going in that entrance.
MR. GRIFFIN: Well, I'm going to stop there and ask.
MR. GRIFFIN: Doug, if you don't mind pulling up State's Exhibit 524, which is the GM OnStar data, and it's slide 38, which is in evidence.
MR. GRIFFIN: Can you, can you see this slide with those dots?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Yes, sir, I can. I can.
MR. GRIFFIN: And the -- and the red dots here at the -- that seem to be joined, where is that in relation to your parents' house?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Where the arrow is?
MR. GRIFFIN: Yes, sir.
ALEX MURDAUGH: All right, that's back in the area where I'm talking about. All right, so if you look in this picture, all right, you see the -- you, you see the open area with the green grass? That's the -- that's the front door. Okay, yeah, right where that circle is, that's the front door. If you look at -- closely at the house, you can see a big dormer right in the middle of the roof. That's right over the front door. The white thing to the left of the house, that's like a parking pad where the, where the driveway ends and there's a parking pad. So, you go -- if you follow the driveway all the way to the house, you're going to run straight into a carport, all right, by the -- by the carport door. Just to the left before you get to the carport is this area that you can see here. That's, that's part driveway, mainly parking pad.
MR. GRIFFIN: All right, I'm going to --
MR. GRIFFIN: Doug, if you'll pull up defendant's exhibit 130, which is in evidence, please, sir?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Yeah.
MR. GRIFFIN: And this photo, can you point out roughly where, where you normally -- where you parked that evening?
ALEX MURDAUGH: All right, this is the, this is the entrance to the right that I'm talking about. There's a exit and an entrance right in front of that door that you see there. So, if you came down those steps, walk to your left would be -- down there would be where I parked.
MR. GRIFFIN: Oh. Would you have parked on the grass?
ALEX MURDAUGH: You get on the edge of the grass back there. There's, there's some grass there for sure, but it's not, it's not the area up here by the house where it's sodded and this, this grass that you can really see in this picture. So, it may be on the edge of the grass, yes, sir.
MR. GRIFFIN: In relation to the satellite dish, are you, looking at this photo, are you to the right of that?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Yeah, you'd be to the right of that satellite dish.
MR. GRIFFIN: Okay.
ALEX MURDAUGH: Yes.
MR. GRIFFIN: And, and --
ALEX MURDAUGH: I believe that satellite dish is right on the edge of the -- you know, there's a, there's a hedge and like you, you see the -- I don't know what you call it, a border, like a border where the grass ends and the flower bed or whatever it is starts. I think -- you can't see it, but I think that satellite is probably close to that border.
MR. GRIFFIN: All right, well, let's --
ALEX MURDAUGH: So, it'd be to the right of that --
MR. GRIFFIN: -- let's put another --
ALEX MURDAUGH: -- in this picture.
MR. GRIFFIN: Doug, can you pull up Defendant's Exhibit 134?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Yeah.
MR. GRIFFIN: So, is the door that you're talking about --
ALEX MURDAUGH: Yeah, yeah, that's it.
MR. GRIFFIN: -- the stairs, are those the ones where you would enter?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Right. These are the steps that I used that night, that we always used and, and one of the reasons being is my dad -- this, this door goes into what we call the breakfast room. The breakfast room leads right into the kitchen. And so straight through this door, all of the breakfast room is kind of to the left. That door goes straight through another doorway. It's no door there, but it's like a -- just opening. It goes into the kitchen. Immediately to your right of that entrance into the kitchen is the entrance into where my mom and dad's rooms were. So, if you went through that door, you were in a little area that had my mom's closet and my dad's closet. A little bit further, you go into my mom's bedroom. If you went to the right, you would go to -- my, my dad and my mom didn't sleep in the same room at this point, but the bedrooms were, you know, they were back-to-back. There was a door going from one to the other that was blocked but was there, and then there was a bathroom. So, this is really, this is really the part of the house that, at their age, was getting used. So, that's why you went in this entrance because my mom and whoever was caring for her was always in her bedroom, which would be just on the other side of the room that has these windows that you see to the right, all right? Those would be the windows for the room where my dad slept. And then my mom's right on the other side. The kitchen's right there. This is the part of the house they were always in.
MR. GRIFFIN: And are you the only one that would pull up in the back like that?
MR. GRIFFIN: Common for your brothers and your sister to do the same?
ALEX MURDAUGH: We all did it. I mean, we all -- we all parked in the, in the same way. If you knew you were going to the front of the house, or if you knew there was a crowd there, or for whatever -- you, you may park on the driveway. But if you knew -- under normal circumstances, my dad always stayed in the breakfast room where he had a recliner and a TV. That's where my dad always was. My dad never -- you would never go catch him sitting in the den up front or in a, in a living room. He just wasn't up there. He was in this room watching TV or either he was on his back deck, and my mom was either in her room, which was just off of that, or she might be in the kitchen or the, or the breakfast room.
MR. GRIFFIN: And when you got to the house, who was there at your mother's house on the night of June 7th?
ALEX MURDAUGH: My mom was there and Shelley Smith was there.
MR. GRIFFIN: And what did you do when you got there?
ALEX MURDAUGH: The first thing I did was I tried to, I tried to -- I knocked on the door. The door was locked; I knocked on the door. Shelley didn't hear me.
MR. GRIFFIN: And then what did you do next?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I called.
MR. GRIFFIN: Called what?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I called my mom's house to let Shelley know I was there. Please come let me in.
MR. GRIFFIN: Is that the house phone that's been referred to?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Yes.
MR. GRIFFIN: Okay. Then she let you in?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Sure.
MR. GRIFFIN: And then what happened next?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I went in and I visited with my mom. You want me to go into detail on that?
MR. GRIFFIN: Well, just briefly. Yeah, what'd you do?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I went in the house. In my mom's bedroom, my mom had a bed that was where she slept in normal times. It was like, you know, a bed with, you know, the poles coming out of the corner, a poster bed that -- coming out of the corners and she had a bed like that that -- where she slept, but she didn't sleep there anymore, but it was in the room. It was a hospital bed. So, when you -- when you walked in the room, her bed was to the right. Against the wall to the left was a hospital bed, like a single bed but a hospital bed, and a TV. And then there was recliner where whoever was helping her would, would usually sit. So, I went in and I sat down on my mom's hospital bed, and I just talked to her for a minute. My mom was awake, and I held her hand and --
MR. GRIFFIN: What kind of condition was she in?
ALEX MURDAUGH: She was -- and her condition was not good at, at any time, but given her overall condition, she seemed to be doing pretty well. I mean, she wasn't agitated like I thought she would be, or like I was worried she would be, or like Barbara had described her at that point. So, she, she wasn't agitated and, you know, I just talked to her. Any, any time we talked to my mom, we always tried to be real positive and, you know, upbeat and just -- and I, I just talked to her, you know? I just talked to her, made sure she was okay.
MR. GRIFFIN: Did you stay seated on the side of her hospital-style bed, or did you move around?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I mean, I stayed there for a few minutes, you know. I stayed there and I talked to her more than just a few seconds and then -- but I didn't stay there. She was -- she, she did look tired. So, I, I got up and I went and I, I think I sat on my mom's bed for a minute to start with. And then I laid down on my mom's bed, which is -- you know, that's what I, I normally did when I went in there. It wasn't like there were a lot of chairs to sit in, and I just laid back on the bed.
MR. GRIFFIN: Now, when you talked --
ALEX MURDAUGH: Talked to Shelley, and we watched TV.
MR. GRIFFIN: Now, when you're talking about your mom's bed, are you referring to her regular bed?
ALEX MURDAUGH: That's right. Not, not her hospital bed, not the bed she was in but her, her bed, the one I was talking about with, like, posts.
MR. GRIFFIN: The -- let me -- skipped something. Was Maggie, planning to go over to your mother's with you that night?
ALEX MURDAUGH: No, she wasn't planning to go with me that night, no. In fact, Maggie didn't really like to visit my mom. It was -- she loved to visit my dad, and she loved to spend time with my dad, and she spent a lot of time with my mom when my mom was healthy. But, you know, I mean, by this point my mom, she was a shell. She was a shell of her old self. And, I mean, it was kind of -- I mean, it was kind of sad to go and visit her any time. I mean, she, she just -- she wasn't healthy and, and Maggie didn't like to go and just visit my mom.
MR. GRIFFIN: When, when you, when you left Moselle to head to Almeda the evening after you had gone back to the house at Moselle, what --
ALEX MURDAUGH: Say that again, Jim?
MR. GRIFFIN: What, what exit did you use of the Moselle property when you're going to Almeda on the evening of June 7th?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I went out to the main gates, which would be straight ahead. The -- you've heard of the two gates. There's the shop entrance. There's actually several entrances, but the main ones we used, there was an entrance by the dove field, there was an entrance further down by Sawtooth Oaks, but the main ones we used were the shop entrance and what we call the main entrance where the brick gates were.
MR. GRIFFIN: Did, did you go -- why, why didn't you go by the kennels on your way out?
ALEX MURDAUGH: There, there wasn't a reason to go by the kennels at that point, and I was going to Almeda, which that -- the main gate would be to the gates that were closer.
MR. GRIFFIN: Did you notify Maggie in some form that you were leaving to go to see your mom?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I tried to call her.
MR. GRIFFIN: And, and did she answer?
MR. GRIFFIN: And what'd you do after that?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I think I tried to call her again.
MR. GRIFFIN: And did she answer?
ALEX MURDAUGH: No, she didn't answer, and at some point I texted her after that.
MR. GRIFFIN: Well, the fact that she didn't answer two times, well, did that concern you?
ALEX MURDAUGH: At that time, it didn't concern me at all. Number one, she was with Paul-Paul. So, no. I mean, number two, I mean, it's not unusual to not be able to get somebody all the time when they're at the house or they're on the property. I mean, you've heard all the testimony about how spotty cell service was, so no, at the time it didn't strike me as anything unusual.
MR. GRIFFIN: Now moving back to Almeda, spend time with your mother, and then you left to head back to Moselle. Is that correct?
ALEX MURDAUGH: That's correct.
MR. GRIFFIN: You drive straight back to Moselle.
ALEX MURDAUGH: I did.
MR. GRIFFIN: Now, Alex, there's some information from the telemetry data off your Suburban and perhaps some of this OnStar GPS data that indicates that at some point in time in your mother's driveway, you stop for about a minute. Do you recall seeing that data?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I do.
MR. GRIFFIN: What were you doing when you stopped?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I was getting --
MR. GRIFFIN: Do you recall?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I was getting my phone that -- I, I -- my phone had gotten -- there's a console in the middle of my car, and my phone had gotten down in the console between the console and the seat where you couldn't get to it.
MR. GRIFFIN: Were you during that a minute or however long it was, were you disposing of murder weapons, Alex?
MR. GRIFFIN: Were you disposing of bloody clothes?
MR. GRIFFIN: And your ride back to Moselle, were you driving faster than normal? Normal?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I was driving however I drive, normal way that I drive.
MR. GRIFFIN: When you got back to the Moselle property, how did you enter the property? What entrance did you use?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Came right back through the main gate.
MR. GRIFFIN: And what'd you do then?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Went straight to the house.
MR. GRIFFIN: And when you got to the house, what did you do?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I went inside.
MR. GRIFFIN: Were lights on when you pulled up?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Lights were on in the house for sure. I can't remember if there were flood lights on or not. I, I don't believe there were any flood lights on, but there were definitely lights. All, all the lights in the house were on, yes.
MR. GRIFFIN: And when you -- how long did you stay inside the house roughly?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Now that I've seen the benefit of, of these records, I was in there several minutes.
MR. GRIFFIN: Were you surprised that Paul and Maggie had not made it back to the house?
ALEX MURDAUGH: You know, I don't know if surprised is the right word but, I mean, I would have -- I thought they would have been back by then, you know, but, I mean, did it cause me to go into any -- it wasn't like I was shocked. But, I mean, I thought they would be there. I mean, I distinctly remember -- you know, I went and looked. Sometimes -- I was very hot natured. Number one, I was hot and I was heavy and I was taking pills, so I was always hot. Maggie was always cold. Sometimes she would watch TV. We had a TV in the hunting room. You see on the wall there. Sometimes Maggie would be in there watching TV where she could have the thermostat different than -- we always kept it cold in the, in the main part of the house. So, I know I, I know I went in there and, and looked in there for her. It's not unusual for Maggie to be taking a bath and be -- not able to hear me. So, I went back there, and I know I did those two things and, and looked in those two places, and they weren't there. And so, you know, I knew they'd been at the kennels, and I assumed they were still up there.
MR. GRIFFIN: So, what'd you do?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I went to the kennels. I may have tried to call them. In fact, I probably did try to call them. We -- I would think I called them. But as I sit here right now, I'm not positive, but I would think I did, would think I tried to call them to see.
MR. GRIFFIN: And, Alex, when you -- did you drive down to the kennels in your Suburban?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I did.
MR. GRIFFIN: What did you see?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Saw what y'all have seen pictures of. So bad. Can I have some water? Yeah, I went to --
(Break in proceedings.)
MR. GRIFFIN: Did you see them on the ground when you were pulling up in your Suburban?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I did.
MR. GRIFFIN: And what did you do when you came to a stop, Alex?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I think I jumped out of my car. I'm not exactly sure what I did, but I know I got out of my car. I know I ran back to my car, called 911. I was -- I called 911. I was on the phone with 911. I was trying to tend to Paul-Paul. I was trying to tend to Maggie, and I just went back and forth between them.
MR. GRIFFIN: Were you going to Paul and Maggie while you were on the phone with the 911 operators?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Yes. Yes.
MR. GRIFFIN: In a little bit -- I'm going to play the 911 tape, but I just want to ask you, and you've told law enforcement and it's been played here in the court. What did you do when you went up to Paul at some point in time?
ALEX MURDAUGH: It was all, all so -- it was so bad. At some point I know -- I mean, I know I tried to check him for a pulse. I know I tried to turn him over.
MR. GRIFFIN: When you say you tried to turn him over, what -- why were you trying to turn him over?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I don't know; I don't know. I don't know why I tried to turn him over. I mean, my boy's laying face down. He's done the way he's done. Head was the way his head was. I can see his, I can see his brain laying on the sidewalk. I didn't know what to do. I mean, I just tried to turn him over. Grabbed him by the belt loop and tried to turn him over and when I did, his phone popped out. I mean, his phone popped out, and I just pick it up and I put it right back there.
MR. GRIFFIN: Do you have any idea how it popped out?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I mean, I know it came out of his pocket when I pulled on his belt loop when I, when I pulled him to turn him over, and it just popped out. I mean, it popped right beside him. It sat right beside him.
MR. GRIFFIN: Were you, were you able to turn Paul at all?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I mean, I, I didn't. Even if I was able to, I didn't turn him over. No.
MR. GRIFFIN: What, what side of the -- what side of Paul were you on?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I was on, I was on the side that was away from -- I was on the side that was away from where my car was. I mean, I --
MR. GRIFFIN: What did you do with the phone?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I put it back on Paul-Paul.
MR. GRIFFIN: Do you know -- if you don't -- you know which way it was pointing? Upside down? Downside? Any way?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Couldn't tell you anything about it. I know his phone popped out. I picked it up, and I put it back on him.
MR. GRIFFIN: Did you see any messages on Paul's phone?
MR. GRIFFIN: Did you go to Maggie?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I did.
MR. GRIFFIN: Did you touch her?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I did.
MR. GRIFFIN: Where? Where did you touch Maggie?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I think I touched her down around like -- I don't know. I don't know. If you, if you ask me exactly, I, I think I touched her down around her waist, but I don't know. It was so bad. Excuse me. I mean, I know I went back and forth. I mean, I went back and forth between them I know. I know I did.
MR. GRIFFIN: I'd like to play, Doug, the Colleton County portion of the 911 call that -- which is in evidence as Defendant's Exhibit Number 9. And, Doug, this is the long version, the first clip, and stop it when I say stop it, please.
(Interview of the defendant, Alex Murdaugh, was played. Audio not transcribed.)
MR. GRIFFIN: Alex, when you -- when you say I've been up to it now and it's bad, what are you referring to?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I'm talking about what I saw is what y'all saw pictures of. I mean, it was bad. It was terrible. And, and when I first got there, I know I got out of the car. And, I mean, I know I, I got out of the car. I mean, I knew. Got out of the car, but right at first I don't, I don't -- I didn't go. I don't think I went all the way to them. I think I ran back and, and, and that's when I called 911. And so I called 911 and while I was doing that, then is when I went to Maggie and I went to Paul, and so that's what I think I'm talking about.
MR. GRIFFIN: Okay, keep going, please.
(The video continued to play.)
MR. GRIFFIN: Alex, right, right in there you say the word here. What -- are you calling anybody or anything?
ALEX MURDAUGH: No, I'm talking to that dispatcher.
MR. GRIFFIN: And what did you mean when you said here?
ALEX MURDAUGH: If you listen to that call, one of the first things she asked me, one of the first things she asked me was did they shoot themselves. I knew, knew there's no way. I knew they didn't shoot themselves. It wasn't a gun. They didn't shoot themselves. And she had asked me that. Then she asked me another question, something about that, and you hear me say here, and then you hear faint talking. I'm telling her here, and then I say something, and then you hear me say if that's what you're asking. And I'm letting her know they didn't shoot themselves. I'm saying here, and then I give her a explanation which you can't hear on that phone, but it's obvious to me what I'm doing. And I say if that's what you're asking me. So, like David Owens (sic) asked me on August 11th did I call the dog or was I talking to somebody, there was no dog that was out and there was nobody there.
MR. GRIFFIN: Well, let's, let's talk about that briefly. Well, when you got there and you saw Maggie and Paul, what -- where were the dogs?
ALEX MURDAUGH: The dogs were in the kennels. They were -- yeah, dogs were in the kennels. They were wherever they were when law enforcement got there.
MR. GRIFFIN: And, and you've seen pictures and they called Bill Davis to the stand to talk about the hose rolled up. Did you roll the hose up?
MR. GRIFFIN: Did you do anything down there at the kennels when you got there other than called 911 and attend to Maggie and Paul?
ALEX MURDAUGH: No. I do know that I, I was trying to find a flashlight. I was trying to find a gun. Other than those things, no, I didn't do, I didn't do anything at the kennel. I didn't do anything with any hose; I didn't do anything with any dogs.
MR. GRIFFIN: Was there anybody with you?
MR. GRIFFIN: Keep going, please.
(The video continued to play.)
MR. GRIFFIN: Alex, we just heard you say I should have known. What are you referring to?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I said Paul-Paul, I should have known.
MR. GRIFFIN: What were you referring to?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I was referring to Paul-Paul got so many threats. Didn't take serious. Think twice about. I'm just telling him Paul-Paul, I should have known. I don't specifically remember saying that, but I clearly hear myself say that.
MR. GRIFFIN: What, what kind of threats did you understand Paul was receiving?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Paul got, he got the most vile threats. I mean, the stuff that was on social media, I mean, it was -- you couldn't believe it. You couldn't believe it. It was so over the top, truthfully we didn't think anything about it. I mean, it was just so crazy that, you know, we just -- I mean, people talking about what he was going to get and how they were going to do this and get him. And, I mean, it's stuff you really, I mean, you, you -- I mean, we disregarded it because it was so over the top, thought it was so over the top.
MR. GRIFFIN: Keep going, please, Doug.
(The video continued to play.)
MR. GRIFFIN: Well, you were asked the last time you saw them, and you said hour and a half, 2 hours ago, and then she followed up 2 hours ago. You just heard that.
ALEX MURDAUGH: I did hear that. I said approximately to her question.
MR. GRIFFIN: When was the last time you saw them, Maggie and Paul?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Right after I took the chicken from Bubba.
MR. GRIFFIN: And the video we've seen is timestamped 8:44 p.m. Is that correct?
ALEX MURDAUGH: That's right.
MR. GRIFFIN: So, was it shortly after 8:44?
ALEX MURDAUGH: It was.
MR. GRIFFIN: And --
ALEX MURDAUGH: It wasn't long after that because you can hear when Bubba gets the chicken, and it wasn't long after I took the chicken from him that I left.
MR. GRIFFIN: And then you called 911. There are records of that, but you remember roughly 9:07 or right before 9:07?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I mean, I've seen records and seen the transcripts, yeah.
MR. GRIFFIN: And then this -- and there's a record of this, but this is some minutes into the conversation with the 911 operator, correct?
ALEX MURDAUGH: That's right.
MR. GRIFFIN: Knowing everything we know now, I mean, was it roughly an hour and a half the last time you saw them?
ALEX MURDAUGH: It was. That would -- with the, with the time of how long it took to get to this point, however minutes that is. It's 10, 10, 10, how -- however many. You can look exactly and see what point this is and know what time it is, but it's between 10 and 15, and so I'd seen them around 8:45, little bit after.
MR. GRIFFIN: All right, please keep going.
(The video continued to play.)
MR. GRIFFIN: Did you go back to the house and get a gun?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I did.
MR. GRIFFIN: And is this the gun that you got?
ALEX MURDAUGH: That is the gun.
MR. GRIFFIN: And how did you load this gun? What -- I mean, what did you load it with?
ALEX MURDAUGH: That was the gun -- as best I can remember, I believe I got that gun off the pool table where you heard there were some other guns. I think that gun was laying on that pool table. I'm not positive, but I'm pretty sure it was on that pool table. Would have been the first place I came to. I know I was grabbing the first gun I could get. I grabbed a handful of shells out of the -- that I could get my hands on. I know the, I know the gun had a shell in it that I loaded, and I, I know I had a few shells, so.
MR. GRIFFIN: Have you seen in this case where there was a 16 gauge shell put in that gun?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I've seen in the records and I've seen and heard in the testimony I put a 16 gauge shell in the gun.
MR. GRIFFIN: Is that a 16 gauge shotgun?
ALEX MURDAUGH: It's not a 16 gauge shotgun. It's a --
MR. GRIFFIN: Why did you put --
ALEX MURDAUGH: -- 12 gauge.
MR. GRIFFIN: -- a 16 gauge shell in it?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I obviously didn't realize what I was doing. I mean, I know you can't put a 16 gauge shell in a 12 gauge gun and not -- I mean, I've been hunting my whole life. I know you can't do that. That's -- it's not a mistake I would have -- that's not a mistake I'd have made under any circumstances other than that night.
MR. GRIFFIN: Why did you go back to the house and get a gun?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I just didn't know. I didn't know. I mean, I mean, it's just -- I didn't know if somebody was still out there. I don't know. I guess I, I didn't know.
(The video continued to play.)
MR. GRIFFIN: Doug, can you back up? Go back to where he's saying he's going to my house to get a gun just a few seconds back, 10 seconds maybe.
(The video continued to play.)
MR. GRIFFIN: Alex, you said you're about 100 yards from the house.
ALEX MURDAUGH: That's what I said.
MR. GRIFFIN: Is it much further than that?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I mean, as you've heard in the testimony, it's 1100 and something feet, but...
MR. GRIFFIN: Okay.
ALEX MURDAUGH: I said I was 100 yards.
MR. GRIFFIN: You were wrong about your estimate.
ALEX MURDAUGH: Sure I was wrong.
MR. GRIFFIN: Keep going.
(The video continued to play.)
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: That's it.
MR. GRIFFIN: All right, roll to, roll to the next statement at the scene.
(The video continued to play.)
MR. GRIFFIN: That was that second clip. Starts at 2213. 10:13:58 and you're asked -- you're told don't touch them. Had you touched them by them?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Yes.
MR. GRIFFIN: And is that what you told the 911 operator?
ALEX MURDAUGH: That is.
MR. GRIFFIN: And can you say exactly during that 6, 7 minutes when you actually touched them?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I know I touched Maggie. I touched Maggie several times but, I mean, I didn't -- I don't think I touched Paul-Paul but two times.
MR. GRIFFIN: Did you touch one or both of them before you got in the car and drove back to the house?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Yes. Yeah.
MR. GRIFFIN: One or both?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Both. Both.
MR. GRIFFIN: All right, keep going.
(The video continued to play.)
MR. GRIFFIN: Alex, you informed the 911 operator that Paul had made reports of these threats. What were you referring to?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I mean, I just know that it had been reported. I, I don't know that -- and I don't believe there was any, like, formal police reports or that type of thing, but it had been reported, and, I mean, it was, it was well known.
MR. GRIFFIN: So, were you saying that he had filed some official report when you said yes?
ALEX MURDAUGH: No, I never thought -- I never, I never thought there was a police report or some formal report like that, no.
MR. GRIFFIN: Do you know whether or not he made some type of report on campus?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Oh, I know he did.
MR. GRIFFIN: What? What do you know?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I mean, I know that there was a, there was a time when he went to -- he was asked to come meet with -- gah, I can't even remember the gentleman's name now, but I appreciated it so much, and I never thought I'd forget it, but...
MR. GRIFFIN: Part of Student Counseling Services?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Yeah, he was the dean of students. But anyway, he'd reached out to Paul-Paul and wanted to talk to him. And, I mean, at first we were concerned, you know. Why did they -- why'd they want to talk to him? And, I mean, even -- I believe I had Paul come talk to you about that because we were concerned. Well, what do they want to talk to him about? When Paul and Jim got there, it turns out that it was really just -- I mean, they wanted to make sure he was okay, you know, and make sure he was okay. And I know that, you know, they were aware of the threats or -- or some level of threats. And so, yeah, I mean, it had already been reported to them.
MR. GRIFFIN: Keep going, Doug.
(The video continued to play.)
MR. GRIFFIN: So, Alex, did you call family after you got off the call with 911, with the operator?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Yes.
MR. GRIFFIN: Who did you call?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I know I called my brother Randy, I know I called my brother John, and I know I tried to call Ro-Ro. Well, Ro-Ro's not family, but I called Randy and John. And I, I called --
MR. GRIFFIN: And then --
ALEX MURDAUGH: -- Randy and John.
MR. GRIFFIN: And then you just mentioned Ro-No?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Ro-Ro, Rogan. We called him Ro. I called him Ro-Ro.
MR. GRIFFIN: Why did you try to call Rogan?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I mean, Rogan, Rogan's house was, like, I don't know, as the crow flies maybe 2 and a half miles, 3 miles. I mean, Rogan was like family.
MR. GRIFFIN: Did you think he was the closest person?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Yeah. I just wanted somebody. I wanted somebody to be out there.
MR. GRIFFIN: Had you seen Rogan's name on Paul's phone in any way that night?
MR. GRIFFIN: When you called, did Rogan answer?
MR. GRIFFIN: Did you try, try him multiple times?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Looking at these records, I believe that I did, but I believe some of those are -- like the FaceTime calls that are to Rogan, I mean, I'm trying to call him, but I don't believe that was me actually. I didn't FaceTime. I mean, I didn't FaceTime people. So, I, I think that's either me trying to call him and hitting FaceTime or that's me hitting buttons or hitting the phone.
MR. GRIFFIN: In the -- State's Exhibit 519 which is the condensed timeline done by Agent Rudofski, there's an indication that at 10:22:09 you opened a group text message from Michael Gunn stating: She brought the heat from Miami Boyz. Were you reading text messages from Michael Gunn right after you got off with the 911 operator?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I heard them ask that question. I can promise you I wasn't reading any text messages.
MR. GRIFFIN: There's also an entry, Alex, that says at 10:40 p.m. that you did a Google search or Safari browser search for Whaley's at Edisto while your wife and son are laying dead on the ground. Did you do that?
ALEX MURDAUGH: No. Whaley's is a restaurant at Edisto that we ate at a lot of times, we got take out from a lot of times. So, I'm assuming it was in my search history from pulling up the restaurant and obviously was trying to call people or dialing and I, I hit that. I wasn't doing any Google searches.
MR. GRIFFIN: And was one of the persons that you dialed that night a wedding photographer?
ALEX MURDAUGH: It's a guy named Brian White. I saw that on the call log. Brian White's a guy who was in my -- what do you call it -- contacts that is a, a videographer that I've used in cases. I haven't used him in two years, and he's a good guy, but we're not personal friends. So, I certainly wasn't calling him.
MR. GRIFFIN: So, were you -- what does that indicate to you that those actions on your phone -- what -- how do you account for that?
ALEX MURDAUGH: They were -- obviously, they're unintentional. I mean, I'm doing something with my phone, trying to call people, but I'm not trying to call those people. I'm not doing a Google search for any Whaley's restaurant, and I'm certainly not reading any texts.
MR. GRIFFIN: I'm going to ask you.
JUDGE NEWMAN: Ladies and gentlemen, we're going to have you go to the jury room for a break for about 10 minutes. Please do not discuss the case. If you'll stay put, Mr. Murdaugh.
(The jury left the courtroom.)
JUDGE NEWMAN: We'll take a 10 minute recess. You may step down. Please do not discuss your testimony.
(A recess was taken.)
JUDGE NEWMAN: You may bring the jury.
(The jury returned to the courtroom.)
COURT BAILIFF: The jury is present, sir.
JUDGE NEWMAN: Thank you. Yes, sir.
BY MR. GRIFFIN:
MR. GRIFFIN: Alex, you talked about going to Paul's body and Maggie's body. Do you recall getting blood on, on you, on your hands, or any part of you?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Yes.
MR. GRIFFIN: Do you know whose blood you would have gotten on you?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I know I got blood on my fingertips.
MR. GRIFFIN: Can you differentiate, you know, whether it was Maggie or Paul?
ALEX MURDAUGH: It was probably both. There was so much blood.
MR. GRIFFIN: Turns out there was a drop of blood on the steering wheel of the Suburban. Do you know how that got there?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I mean, if it was fresh, I put it there. If it was not fresh, I mean, Maggie drove my car all the time, but I assume it got there from me touching Maggie and then, and then touching the steering wheel that night.
MR. GRIFFIN: And then I think maybe there's possibly blood on the gun. Maybe not. Do you know if you got any transferred blood on anything else that night?
ALEX MURDAUGH: If Maggie's blood's on that gun, then I, I put it there. I mean, Maggie -- I mean, Maggie didn't really fool with guns other than to put them up.
MR. GRIFFIN: Did you submit to a GSR examination that night?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Yeah. That's what I was talking about earlier and then Brian Varnadoe testified about.
MR. GRIFFIN: Were, were your hands were swabbed?
ALEX MURDAUGH: That's right.
MR. GRIFFIN: And then your clothes were collected by Agent Owen or someone else.
ALEX MURDAUGH: That's correct.
MR. GRIFFIN: And then turns out there's some GSR on your shirt, on your shorts. Did, did you handle this gun? This, this is --
ALEX MURDAUGH: Yes.
MR. GRIFFIN: This is Item 22 that --
ALEX MURDAUGH: Yes, I had -- I basically had that gun with me until I put it up against my car. When, when the police officer, I think it was Mr. Greene, got there, I put it against my car.
MR. GRIFFIN: And I think Nolan had testified that this is, you know, one of the shotguns Paul liked to use.
ALEX MURDAUGH: It is.
MR. GRIFFIN: Was he meticulous about cleaning his guns?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Paul-Paul?
MR. GRIFFIN: Yeah.
ALEX MURDAUGH: No. Now when he cleaned it, he was meticulous about it, but it was far and few between when he actually cleaned them.
MR. GRIFFIN: Your, your shirt was -- went through testing and analysis and you were, as part of this case, provided results of that, were you not?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Yes, sir. I mean, I wasn't provided it at the time. I've seen them.
MR. GRIFFIN: Right.
ALEX MURDAUGH: I've seen all these records.
MR. GRIFFIN: Just let me ask you. Did you get on your shirt high velocity blood spatter from being within a distance of shooting Maggie or Paul?
ALEX MURDAUGH: There's no way that I had high velocity blood spatter on me.
MR. GRIFFIN: Had you seen reports that said that at one point in time?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I have seen reports that said that.
MR. GRIFFIN: Just to be clear, were you anywhere in the vicinity when Paul and Maggie were shot?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I was nowhere near Paul and Maggie when they got shot.
MR. GRIFFIN: After SLED collected your clothing that night at the main residence in Moselle, did you remember changing in -- remember what you changed into?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Do I remember?
MR. GRIFFIN: Yeah.
ALEX MURDAUGH: I know I changed clothes and I -- I've, I've learned since then what I had on, but I don't --
MR. GRIFFIN: You don't remember. Okay.
ALEX MURDAUGH: I don't remember that at all, but I understand I had on athletic shorts and T-shirt.
MR. GRIFFIN: Sure, and other people have talked about this. I'm not going to repeat it, but did -- where did you spend the night or where did you go to after leaving Moselle when you left for the evening?
ALEX MURDAUGH: We went to Almeda. We went to my mom and dad's house, and we stayed there.
MR. GRIFFIN: And who went with you?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I believe that Bus and Brooklynn and I rode together. John Marvin might have been with us. I know John Marvin stayed at Almeda with us. I just don't know if he rode in the same car we rode in, but I know I rode with Buster and Brooklynn. I know that for a fact.
MR. GRIFFIN: And the, the next morning, what you do, and I -- and we're talking about daylight hours on June the 8th. What, what did you do?
ALEX MURDAUGH: We basically got up and came back to Moselle.
MR. GRIFFIN: Do you remember roughly what time you got to Moselle?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I don't remember. No, I don't remember what time. There's things I remember about that morning, but I don't remember exactly what time we left.
MR. GRIFFIN: And, Alex, we'll get to this in more detail, but during that period of time, is it hard to remember times, what time things started and stopped, how long things took?
ALEX MURDAUGH: It is definitely hard to remember. Now looking at these timelines and all these records, I mean, it, it sure helps. But to, to, to just do it off the top of my head is, is very difficult.
MR. GRIFFIN: We'll get to more of that. When you went back to Moselle on the morning of June the 8th, did you -- you know whether you took a shower there or took a shower at Almeda or took a shower at all?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Now, I know we took a shower at Moselle. I did not take a shower before I left Alameda. We basically got up and went to Moselle. Maggie's mom and dad.
MR. GRIFFIN: They were there?
ALEX MURDAUGH: They were coming. Had to tell them, see them. We got up and we got up from Almeda and we left and we went to Moselle.
MR. GRIFFIN: And did -- do you know -- do you ever recall SLED coming in and searching the house for anything on the 8th?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I knew that. I mean, I knew they were doing it, yeah. I knew they were, I knew they were doing it. But I, I don't remember. I wasn't out in that gun room and all, see all that video and all that, but I knew SLED, yeah, was coming in there. I mean, we made -- we, we, we made the house available for them to come in there. So, I mean, I can't tell you details, but yeah, I remember it.
MR. GRIFFIN: Did, did you at one point just tell SLED they had carte blanche to search anywhere any time?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I told SLED they could do anything anywhere any time that they wanted to, anything to do with me, my property. My cars, even though I didn't own the cars, I would get my law firm on the cars. I'd have the people -- they had full -- whatever they wanted, they were welcome to.
MR. GRIFFIN: And did you have any questions with -- you have any discussions with David Owen or anybody at SLED about consenting to General Motors to get that off the car?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Every time that I talked to David Owens, I would ask him about getting OnStar data and GPS data from phones.
MR. GRIFFIN: And why was it important to you to get OnStar's data and GPS data from the phone?
ALEX MURDAUGH: To confirm where I was saying I went, what I did, GPS. You know, at that point in time, I knew that Maggie's phone had been taken. And I knew that my Suburban and my phone and Maggie's phone never crossed paths, and that was extremely important to me, and I asked him about it every single time we talked. Every single time.
MR. GRIFFIN: And speaking of Maggie's phone, did you know her password to her phone?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Yes, I knew her password.
MR. GRIFFIN: Did you know her password to her computer?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Yes.
MR. GRIFFIN: Did she know your password?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Yes.
MR. GRIFFIN: And when Maggie's phone was located on the side of the road, did, did you provide SLED the password to her phone?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I did. I think I actually provided it to John Marvin, who provided it to SLED, but I'm the one who gave it to them.
MR. GRIFFIN: And to your knowledge, did Maggie's have these location services on her phone and she used them frequently?
ALEX MURDAUGH: All the time. One of Maggie's things that she liked to do was there's that app called Find My Friends that you can see what other people are doing and they can see what you're doing. Maggie loved me, Bus, Paul-Paul, Brooklynn, Grandmar, Papa T, Marian, the three girls, Lizzie, and there were a few others, but the people that were closest to her, she had them all in her phone. She loved to, to, to look at that phone and see where people are, and she'd love to surprise you. Like, let's say you're at Walmart. She looks on there and she'd love to text you: get me a DV from Walmart or something. You know. Like, she'd follow you and see where you were. She used it all the time, and so, you know, I just knew that there would be GPS data on Maggie's phone.
MR. GRIFFIN: Alex, when you're being interviewed on the night of June 7th and again on June the 10th, what was your understanding as to why they were interviewing you? Why were you being interviewed by SLED?
ALEX MURDAUGH: On June the 7th and June the 10th?
MR. GRIFFIN: Yes, sir.
MR. WATERS: Objection, Your Honor. 401, 402.
JUDGE NEWMAN: What's the question again?
MR. GRIFFIN: What is his understanding of why SLED was interviewing him on the night of June the 7th and again on June the 10th.
JUDGE NEWMAN: And the basis for the objection?
MR. WATERS: 401 and 402, Your Honor.
JUDGE NEWMAN: What do you mean?
MR. WATERS: Relevance, Your Honor. His understanding is not important. What he said is important, Your Honor.
JUDGE NEWMAN: Response?
MR. GRIFFIN: Well, I, I can -- it goes to his, it goes to his state of mind. That's, that's what it goes to.
JUDGE NEWMAN: The objection is sustained.
MR. GRIFFIN: Did -- why was it -- why was it important to you to be able to get data from the Suburban, data from your phone, and data from Maggie's phone?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I knew at that point in time, I knew since I was the person who found Paul-Paul and Mags that I was a suspect. I mean, they kept talking about this circle, but I know that it was very important for me to find that, to get that.
MR. GRIFFIN: And, and what was your belief as to that information? What would it have done for you?
ALEX MURDAUGH: There's no question in there that it would demonstrate that I couldn't have done this.
MR. GRIFFIN: And when was the data from General Motors off that Suburban finally obtained?
ALEX MURDAUGH: It was either this past Saturday or the Saturday before that, according to what was said in this courtroom.
MR. GRIFFIN: During this trial.
ALEX MURDAUGH: Absolutely.
MR. GRIFFIN: And to your knowledge, was GPS data ever able to be located off Maggie's phone?
ALEX MURDAUGH: No. I mean, not just to my knowledge. It was not able to be gotten. I mean, the testimony was in here that, that it didn't -- that it couldn't, that it couldn't be gotten. It only went back to June the 9th. Everything before that was erased on Maggie's phone.
MR. GRIFFIN: Now when -- starting June the 8th at Moselle, did a lot of people come to support you, be with you on June the 8th?
ALEX MURDAUGH: On June the 8th?
MR. GRIFFIN: Yes, sir.
ALEX MURDAUGH: Like the next day?
MR. GRIFFIN: Right.
ALEX MURDAUGH: Yes, sir, a lot of people.
MR. GRIFFIN: And you mentioned your -- Maggie's parents and family came as well.
ALEX MURDAUGH: Yes, sir.
MR. GRIFFIN: From, from that moment, June 8th when folks, family came to Moselle and, and you met with them, were you left alone by any of your family members the rest of that week?
ALEX MURDAUGH: No. I mean, I, I was attached to Buster at the hip but, I mean --
MR. GRIFFIN: And what happened on --
ALEX MURDAUGH: -- no, I wasn't.
MR. GRIFFIN: What happened --
ALEX MURDAUGH: And I --
MR. GRIFFIN: What happened in June the 10th besides being interviewed by SLED?
ALEX MURDAUGH: My dad died; my dad passed.
MR. GRIFFIN: Where did you stay and with whom did you stay on the night of June the 8th, the night of June the 9th, the night of June the 10th?
ALEX MURDAUGH: On the night of June the -- you asked me to start on the 8th?
MR. GRIFFIN: The 8th, yes, sir.
ALEX MURDAUGH: Starting on the 8th, I stayed with Buster every night. I stayed with Buster, and as long as Brooklynn was there, I stayed with Buster and Brooklynn. But we stayed with -- we, we -- I'm pretty sure that's beginning on the 8th. I know the 7th we stayed at Almeda, and I believe on the 8th we started staying at John Marvin and Lizzie's at Greenfield.
MR. GRIFFIN: And how far --
ALEX MURDAUGH: -- which is --
MR. GRIFFIN: And how far is Greenfield from Almeda?
ALEX MURDAUGH: As the crow flies, I mean, it's no distance. It's less than 5 minutes. It's probably a couple of -- few minutes away.
MR. GRIFFIN: And, and who stayed there? Did John Marvin and his wife, Liz, stay there as well?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Yes, John and Lizzie. All right, John and Lizzie stayed there and their kids, Bus and Brooklynn and I. I know Bubba and May-May stayed there. Well, Lizzie's mom and daddy stayed there and my daddy's best friend and his wife came in there. I believe they came before my daddy passed. I know they came after he passed and stayed there.
MR. GRIFFIN: And that -- how many nights do you recall staying there at Greenfield?
ALEX MURDAUGH: So, I stayed at Greenfield. All right, the 7th was a Monday. I stayed Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday, and Sunday at Greenfield. I know that for a fact.
MR. GRIFFIN: And the -- Maggie and Paul's funeral was Saturday.
ALEX MURDAUGH: Now, I heard that in this courtroom -- say it was Saturday, but --
MR. GRIFFIN: Was it a memorial service?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Their funeral was on Friday.
MR. GRIFFIN: All right.
ALEX MURDAUGH: I know that for a fact, too.
MR. GRIFFIN: And then your father's funeral was on Sunday.
ALEX MURDAUGH: My father's funeral was on Sunday, and it was my -- it was my father's funeral. I forget the term. Sunday, I mean, that's when, that's when we put up Paul-Paul and Mags, that's when we buried -- we didn't bury them when we had the service on Friday because I don't think they were done. That's when we buried them, along with my dad, on Sunday.
MR. GRIFFIN: Alex, what did you do the following week, that Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Starting when now?
MR. GRIFFIN: So, the day after your dad's funeral.
ALEX MURDAUGH: All right, Monday I went to, I went to Grandmar and Papa T's in Summerville.
MR. GRIFFIN: At some point Monday --
ALEX MURDAUGH: In the afternoon. You mean what did I do when I got up that morning?
MR. GRIFFIN: Yeah, just yeah, where did you stay --
ALEX MURDAUGH: We stayed at --
MR. GRIFFIN: -- Monday night?
ALEX MURDAUGH: We stayed at Greenfield Sunday night, so we woke up at Greenfield on Monday.
MR. GRIFFIN: So, and Sunday night you were with the same family members, your brother, Brooklynn, and Buster?
ALEX MURDAUGH: That's right.
MR. GRIFFIN: And Liz?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Lizzie and Lizzie's mom and dad, and I believe Donny and Paula were still there, but I can't remember when they left.
MR. GRIFFIN: And then you went to Summerville with whom?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I believe I went to Summerville by myself, but I know Bus -- in, in the car by myself. I can't remember Buster and I rode together, but I think we might have had separate cars. We, we probably, probably did ride together that first -- I don't remember, but I know I went to Summerville and Buster was in Summerville with me with Grandmar and Papa T.
MR. GRIFFIN: And Summerville is where Maggie's parents live.
ALEX MURDAUGH: That's right. That's Maggie's mom and dad. His grand -- Maggie's mom's is Grandmar and Maggie's dad's is Papa T.
MR. GRIFFIN: And did you stay with them for a few days in Summerville?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I stayed with them longer in Summerville. Yeah, I stayed with them. We stayed in Summerville Monday night, Tuesday night, Wednesday night, and then we went to Greenville.
MR. GRIFFIN: And what was in Greenville?
ALEX MURDAUGH: My niece. That was -- she was having a baby and Maggie had just been -- she'd been so excited. So, she was just so proud of those girls. She was so excited about the baby, and so a baby being born just came such a, such a big deal to me.
MR. GRIFFIN: So, was the baby born?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Yeah. Yeah. Baby was born and beautiful little baby girl. Beautiful little mom.
MR. GRIFFIN: And then did you go up to the lake after that?
ALEX MURDAUGH: We did. Well, I mean, we stayed -- this Lake Keowee that y'all heard about is really close to Greenville. And so when I say we went to Greenville, we really went to Lake Keowee, but we went up there because, you know -- and when she had the baby, I want to say the baby might have gotten born shortly after we got there, like Thursday, but I think it was Saturday before we could go and see them and, and see my niece and see the baby. So, you know, I mean, that's where we went was to Lake Keowee, but they live in Greenville.
MR. GRIFFIN: On the morning of June 16th -- that was that Wednesday; I think that's Wednesday -- where did you wake up?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Summerville.
MR. GRIFFIN: Did you ever go to Almeda on that day?
ALEX MURDAUGH: On Wednesday?
MR. GRIFFIN: Yes, sir.
ALEX MURDAUGH: I don't, I don't believe so.
MR. GRIFFIN: Did you go to Almeda at 6:30 in the morning?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I, I know for a fact that I didn't go to Almeda at 6:30 in the morning. I was in Summerville. I didn't go to Almeda at any point early in the morning. I was in Summerville, and I'm not positive about this, but I know those -- know -- I know they did a -- some -- I know some of those records they have. It was some time before I left Summerville.
MR. GRIFFIN: Did you, did you ever take a -- during that week -- let's just start with that, that week following your dad's funeral. Did you ever take a tarp into the house at Almeda, a tarp, a blue tarp?
ALEX MURDAUGH: The week following my dad's funeral?
MR. GRIFFIN: Yes, sir.
ALEX MURDAUGH: No, I did not.
MR. GRIFFIN: There's been -- I don't know where it is in any of these boxes, but this, this blue rain jacket, you ever seen that?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Never seen it before, never touched it, and don't know anything about it.
MR. GRIFFIN: Did you -- do you ever remember taking a tarp at any point in time over to the house?
ALEX MURDAUGH: No, I don't remember it. I don't remember taking a tarp over there. But, you know, I mean, Shelley's got something in her mind about that, and there may have been some point -- but I certainly don't remember it, and it certainly wasn't any time around my dad's funeral or the weeks following.
MR. GRIFFIN: I think we, we, we talked briefly about, about your recollection of times.
MR. GRIFFIN: And I just want to play, Doug, from State's Exhibit 517, which is the August 11th interview starting at 5 minutes and 52 seconds. You can pull that clip up.
MR. GRIFFIN: And I just want you to listen to this.
ALEX MURDAUGH: Okay. Tell me again what it is.
MR. GRIFFIN: This is the August 11th interview.
ALEX MURDAUGH: Okay.
MR. GRIFFIN: Starting at 5 minutes and 52 seconds.
ALEX MURDAUGH: All right.
MR. GRIFFIN: If you'll go to 5 minutes, 52 seconds.
(Excerpt of interview of the defendant, Alex Murdaugh, was played. Audio not transcribed.)
MR. GRIFFIN: Alex, on this tape, were you being asked when you went to work on the, on the 7th?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Yes.
MR. GRIFFIN: And you said 8:30 to 9:30 in the morning.
ALEX MURDAUGH: And then I think I said 10:00 at the latest.
MR. GRIFFIN: Is that correct?
ALEX MURDAUGH: No, it wasn't.
MR. GRIFFIN: Now seeing all these records, what does it look like what time you went to work on the, on the 7th?
ALEX MURDAUGH: A little after noon.
MR. GRIFFIN: All right.
MR. GRIFFIN: If we go to the, Doug, State's Exhibit 243, which is the June 10th interview.
ALEX MURDAUGH: Now, Mr. Griffin, on that same date, I also, if you play that thing, I don't -- and I don't know if it's right then, but if you play that further, I also told him the best way to see exactly when I went in that door is to go and get my information from my law firm. And I told them that there -- you know, we have a -- you know how things are electronic now where you don't have a key. You have a key card and, and you have a key card in your wallet. And so when you use it, it creates a, like all this other stuff, a digital footprint. And I told David Owens that he could go get it from my office.
MR. GRIFFIN: And was that a common response of yours when you were asked about specific times? That you would give them your best estimate, but you would point them to where they could find the most accurate data?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Yes, sir.
MR. GRIFFIN: You did that more than once?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Yes, sir.
MR. GRIFFIN: So if we got the June 10th interview, which is State's Exhibit 243 --
MR. GRIFFIN: And, Doug, I'd like to go to 9 minutes and 59 seconds.
MR. GRIFFIN: And here are you're being asked when did Paul arrive at Moselle.
(Excerpt of interview of the defendant, Alex Murdaugh, was played. Audio not transcribed.)
MR. GRIFFIN: So, did you tell them on June 10th that Paul got there at 5:00 time period?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Yes, sir. Yes, sir, obviously did.
MR. GRIFFIN: And was that incorrect?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Yes, sir, it was incorrect.
MR. GRIFFIN: What, what time did you, looking at the record now, what time did it look like Paul actually got there?
ALEX MURDAUGH: In looking at the records, it's clear that he got there sometime around 7:00.
MR. GRIFFIN: At some point in time, you have a conversation with Shelley Smith about, you know, how long you were over at Almeda on the night of June the 7th. Do you remember?
ALEX MURDAUGH: You know, I don't distinctly remember having a conversation with her about how long I was over there, but I know that I told Shelley Smith that SLED was going to come and talk to her, and that I'd appreciate it if she would talk to them, and that she just needed to tell them the truth.
MR. GRIFFIN: And did you take extra care not to talk to people that you knew SLED would be talking to?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Absolutely.
MR. GRIFFIN: Why is that?
ALEX MURDAUGH: After this boat wreck that you've heard so much talk about in this courtroom, there were social media, newspaper. I mean, it went deeper than that, but, I mean, there were so many -- so much talk about how I fixed witnesses and, and, and structured the investigation. Just things that were totally false, that were absolutely baseless, but it was said repeatedly, repeatedly, and it was reported repeatedly how I'd done this with this witness and influenced this police officer and all these things. So, I wasn't taking any chances.
MR. GRIFFIN: I want to ask you about --
MR. GRIFFIN: You can take that down, Doug. Thank you.
MR. GRIFFIN: Ask you about the August, August 11th interview with David Owen at the SLED office in, I think, here in Walterboro. Do you remember that?
ALEX MURDAUGH: August 11th, absolutely.
MR. GRIFFIN: Had you requested it, that meeting?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I'd been requesting -- what I'd really been requesting is some information. I'd been begging David Owens to come meet with me, and specifically I wanted -- Grandmar and Papa T had so many questions that I couldn't answer. And I'd been begging him to meet with me and to meet with Grandmar and Papa T. I'd been begging him for weeks and weeks.
MR. GRIFFIN: And did -- when you went into the meeting on August 11th, did you think that's what it was for, to give you an update?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Yes.
MR. GRIFFIN: And at the conclusion of the meeting, they let you know that, that you're the prime suspect.
MR. WATERS: Objection, Your Honor. That's not what was said. Facts not in evidence.
JUDGE NEWMAN: Mr. Griffin.
MR. GRIFFIN: I'll, I'll rephrase it.
JUDGE NEWMAN: All right.
MR. GRIFFIN: By the conclusion of the meeting, did they make it known to you that, that you were a suspect?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Oh, there's no question about that. Absolutely. Now, he used a lot of -- I mean, you hear it in talk about how I'm in this circle and he can't get me out and this and that, but there's no doubt in my mind. There was no question in my mind what was going on.
MR. GRIFFIN: And the -- during that meeting, did they you show you a Snapchat, Snapchat video of you trying to stand up the fruit tree?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Yes.
MR. GRIFFIN: And were you questioned about what clothing you were wearing?
ALEX MURDAUGH: And I can't remember this. I can't remember if he showed me the whole video or he showed me a picture of it, but I was definitely showed that information. I was definitely shown those clothes in that meeting on August the 11th.
MR. GRIFFIN: And, and what clothes were you wearing?
ALEX MURDAUGH: The same ones you see in...
MR. GRIFFIN: And do you remember what kind of pants?
ALEX MURDAUGH: It was khaki pants.
MR. GRIFFIN: What kind of shirt?
ALEX MURDAUGH: It's a button down, short sleeve button down. I call it a dress shirt but short sleeve button down dress shirt.
MR. GRIFFIN: Like, like the shirt you've got there but just short sleeved?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Just like this but short sleeved, and it was colored.
MR. GRIFFIN: What color was it?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Blue. Blue with some blue stripes.
MR. GRIFFIN: Were you questioned about when you changed out of those clothes?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I was.
MR. GRIFFIN: And did you have a follow up? Did you have a conversation after that meeting with SLED with Blanca about what you were wearing that day?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Absolutely.
MR. GRIFFIN: And what was the purpose of the conversation with Blanca?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Well, they made an issue about that in that meeting, and I asked Blanca about those clothes that, that I had on earlier that day.
MR. GRIFFIN: Did you ask her specifically about the blue shirt?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I asked her specifically about all the clothes. What I asked Blanca about specifically was did she remember getting my clothes after she came back. When, when she came back to Moselle, did she remember getting my clothes is specifically what I asked her.
MR. GRIFFIN: And, and why were you asking her those questions?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Because on August the 11th, they had made an issue about me wearing -- still wearing those clothes, not having changed clothes when I was in that Snapchat video. So, that's why I went to Blanca.
MR. GRIFFIN: Did they ever ask you on August the 11th whether -- they ask you for those clothes? Can you produce the clothes? Did they ask you that?
ALEX MURDAUGH: No, they didn't.
MR. GRIFFIN: Have they ever asked you for those clothes?
ALEX MURDAUGH: No. As far as my understanding goes, my clothes were never an issue in this case until y'all figured out as my lawyers --
MR. WATERS: Your Honor, objection.
ALEX MURDAUGH: -- that there was --
MR. WATERS: 401 and 402.
ALEX MURDAUGH: -- no blood spatter on me.
JUDGE NEWMAN: Hold on. Sir?
MR. WATERS: I said objection, Your Honor.
JUDGE NEWMAN: Basis for the objection?
MR. WATERS: 401 and 402 and beyond. It's speculation.
JUDGE NEWMAN: Mr. Griffin.
MR. GRIFFIN: Your Honor, it's a matter of public record. It's a matter of public record.
JUDGE NEWMAN: What is?
MR. GRIFFIN: The issues with the shirt and the blood test.
JUDGE NEWMAN: You said a matter of public record?
MR. GRIFFIN: It was filed in this case, yes, sir.
JUDGE NEWMAN: The objection is overruled.
ALEX MURDAUGH: I'm well aware that my clothes never became an issue in this case until my lawyers proved that this blood spatter that they said I had on my shirt from my wife and my son was a lie and that there was no blood on my shirt. And once they filed the documents and they proved that that was a lie, all of a sudden the clothes I was wearing back on that day became an issue. And that's in the weeks leading up to this trial.
MR. GRIFFIN: Well, Alex, after the -- Maggie and Paul were murdered on June 7th, and 8th, where did you stay and where did you keep clothes?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Say that again, please.
MR. GRIFFIN: Where were you staying overnight? Well, let me ask you this. Did you ever spend another night in Moselle after June 7th?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Never spend another night at Moselle.
MR. GRIFFIN: Why not?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I couldn't. Didn't want to.
MR. GRIFFIN: Where were you staying when -- we talked about the days and weeks, the week after, but where were you staying when you got back from Lake Keowee and Greenville?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I stayed -- all right, so when I got back from Greenville?
MR. GRIFFIN: Yes, sir.
ALEX MURDAUGH: So, that would be the -- so, the first week until my dad's funeral then. All right, so that'd be the second week or -- so, after we -- I know Bus and I, I stayed with Grandmar and Papa T as much as I could, you know. I stayed, I stayed with my brother Randy a lot. I stayed with my brother John a lot. Bus and I stayed at Edisto a little bit, but at the beginning I stayed with -- I really stayed with either my brother Randy and his wife, Christy, or I stayed with my brother John and his wife, Lizzie. And basically at that time Buster was doing -- excuse me, Buster was, Buster was -- Buster worked for Wild Wing at that time, and they'd been so kind to him and gave him -- he was -- they let him be off just -- for just ridiculous amount of time. They were so good to him, so he stayed with me. When he had to go back to work, he would stay at my brother John and Lizzie's because it was close. So, I would stay with Randy and Christy in Hampton. When Buster was there, I would almost always go to John and Lizzie's when Buster was there. I would go to John and Lizzie sometimes when Buster wasn't there, but I was -- Johnny Parker, one of my partners, had a guesthouse his mother-in-law had lived in when she was sick. That's really -- it -- it's right at the foot of Randy's drive. It's 100 yards, 70 yards from Randy's house, and I was going to move into -- I was going to move into that house until we figured out where I could live. So, I had clothes there. I had clothes at Randy's. I had clothes at John Marvin's. I had clothes at Chechessee, which is I think you heard Buster talk about Chechessee, like where we went to the, to the river and I had clothes there. I had clothes in Summerville, and I still had clothes at Moselle.
JUDGE NEWMAN: Last question before we break for lunch.
MR. GRIFFIN: Yes, sir.
JUDGE NEWMAN: Last question.
MR. GRIFFIN: Yes, sir.
JUDGE NEWMAN: If you have another one.
MR. GRIFFIN: So, your -- were your clothes spread out a lot of different places?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Yes.
JUDGE NEWMAN: All right.
MR. GRIFFIN: Thank you.
JUDGE NEWMAN: We'll break for lunch and return in an hour and 15 minutes. Please do not discuss the case.
(The jury left the courtroom.)
JUDGE NEWMAN: Let's see, it's 1:25. 2:40. Recess until 2:40.
(A lunch break was taken.)
JUDGE NEWMAN: You may bring the jury.
(The jury returned to the courtroom.)
COURT BAILIFF: The jury is present, sir.
JUDGE NEWMAN: Thank you. You may proceed.
MR. GRIFFIN: Thank you, Your Honor.
BY MR. GRIFFIN:
MR. GRIFFIN: Mr. Murdaugh, I want to go to June the 7th and your meeting with Jean Seckinger.
ALEX MURDAUGH: Okay.
MR. GRIFFIN: Do you remember meeting Ms. Seckinger?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I do.
MR. GRIFFIN: And what was the meeting about?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Jeannie came up to me and asked me -- previously, Annette Griswold had come to me and asked me about the fee check in the Faris case, and Jeannie was coming to me and saying that she was following up on that. If she didn't, she wouldn't be doing her job, and, and asked me some questions.
MR. GRIFFIN: Let me ask you.
ALEX MURDAUGH: Which I understood.
MR. GRIFFIN: Briefly, the Faris fee, what, what originally happened to the PMPED portion of the Faris fee?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Originally?
MR. GRIFFIN: Yes, sir. Did it come to you directly?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Yes.
MR. GRIFFIN: Should it have come to you directly?
MR. GRIFFIN: Did -- when Ms. Seckinger asked you about the -- where the fee was, what did you tell her?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I can't remember exactly what I told her. The, the, the conversation got interrupted very quickly, but I told Jeannie that the funds were in Chris Wilson's account and nothing to worry about. I wasn't -- I didn't know where the mix up came from.
MR. GRIFFIN: What, what was your level of concern about Ms. Seckinger's inquiry to you on June the 7th?
ALEX MURDAUGH: There was some level of concern because she's asking me about money that I took that I wasn't supposed to have. So, certainly I had some level of concern, but it, it, it wasn't, it wasn't a very big concern. As you heard testimony earlier, at some point Annette Griswold had sent Chris Wilson an email, something to the effect of Alex thinks he has more expenses or, or something like that seeking financial documents from Chris Wilson. When Chris Wilson got -- I wasn't copied on that, but when Chris Wilson got that, Chris Wilson called me up and he's, like, you know, what is this all about?
MR. WATERS: Objection. Rule 801, 802.
JUDGE NEWMAN: Pardon?
MR. WATERS: I said objection to Rules 801 and 802.
JUDGE NEWMAN: Response?
MR. GRIFFIN: Your Honor, I'm not asking what Chris Wilson said, and I'll, I'll move on.
JUDGE NEWMAN: All right. The objection is sustained.
MR. GRIFFIN: Were you, were you concerned about Chris Wilson opening his trust account records to your law firm?
ALEX MURDAUGH: No, I was not concerned about that at all.
MR. GRIFFIN: And, and --
ALEX MURDAUGH: I --
MR. GRIFFIN: -- why were you not concerned?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I knew that one of the people that Chris Wilson -- as you heard, Chris Wilson and I were very close. We talked every day. I, I did work with him all the time and, I mean, he was one of the people closest to me in the whole world. I, I knew everything about him, and I knew he was going through -- one of his partners -- and he and his partner had split up. A partner and an associate had moved to a firm in Charleston. The partner was going through a divorce and the wife of the partner was trying to get Chris Wilson's trust documents in that case, to find out money her husband got. It didn't have anything to do with Chris and I or anything. It, it totally had to do with that, but I knew that Chris Wilson was not going to send any financial documents to my law firm, at least at that time and at least not any time soon. So, while I'm sure it registered with me that I got to deal with this, at that particular time it wasn't anything that was a big deal.
MR. GRIFFIN: Was, was there an immediate urgency to the situation on June the 7th?
MR. GRIFFIN: And I believe there's -- Ms. Seckinger testified about your conversation with her. You learned that your dad was going back in the hospital.
ALEX MURDAUGH: That's correct. There was a text. I can't remember if that text came from my brother Randy or my brother John, but they were the ones that were taking my dad back to the hospital that day. And whichever one was with him -- I believe it was John was with him at the hospital -- but I know Randy was with him at some treatment. They send those documents. But bottom line is we got a text saying -- we knew my dad was really sick. He had cancer and he couldn't breathe, and there was a big issue about whether his inability to breathe was coming from an obstruction caused by the cancer, which was the worst case scenario, and that's what it ended up being ultimately, and that's what he died from. But this particular text was saying, okay, we're putting him back in the hospital. The doctor thinks it's pneumonia, and -- which was -- you know, I mean, pneumonia is never a good thing, but when you compare it to cancer, at that time pneumonia, that was a good thing to learn that.
MR. GRIFFIN: So on the 7th, the information you had, did you believe at that time that your prognosis was pretty positive for your father?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Well, it was better than the alternative. I -- I'm not going to say it was good, but it was better than -- it was better than the alternative and, and what we had previously thought it was. It didn't stay good very long, but --
MR. GRIFFIN: Do --
ALEX MURDAUGH: -- it definitely was better.
MR. GRIFFIN: Do you know whether or not you, you told Ms. Seckinger that that your dad's condition was terminal on the 7th? Do you know? Do you remember whether you said that or not?
ALEX MURDAUGH: No, I wouldn't have said that at that time. And what I -- you know, Jeannie, as soon as that thing comes through that my dad's going in the hospital, Jeannie and I, as you heard, I mean, she stopped the meeting. We stopped it. it, it lasted a couple minutes. Now, my dad's going in the hospital, and the very next day we learned that he's terminal, and I'm, I'm just sure that a year or -- or the amount of time that's gone by --
MR. WATERS: Your Honor, objection.
ALEX MURDAUGH: -- Jeannie assumed she was terminal -- he was terminal.
MR. WATERS: Speculation, Your Honor.
JUDGE NEWMAN: Objection is overruled.
MR. GRIFFIN: Mr. Murdaugh, the -- on June the 7th, did you believe that your financial house of cards was about to crumble?
ALEX MURDAUGH: On June the 7th?
MR. GRIFFIN: Yes, sir.
ALEX MURDAUGH: Absolutely not.
MR. GRIFFIN: Had, had you had -- I think there's documented evidence the State introduced you had reached out to Russell Lafayette at Palmetto State Bank about extending a line of credit on the Moselle property.
ALEX MURDAUGH: Yeah, I had reached out to him. I, I can't remember the date of that text, but it was fairly recently I, I had reached out to Russell.
MR. GRIFFIN: And on June 7th, did, did you have equity in the, in the Moselle property that you and -- or you and Maggie had equity in that Moselle property?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Sure. And, I mean, Moselle was fully in Maggie's name.
MR. GRIFFIN: Okay.
ALEX MURDAUGH: So, but yes, there was equity in Moselle. In looking at the documents that had been used, there was $1,800,000 owed. There was an appraisal for 3.3 million without timber value, and so on 1700 acres -- you know, I don't know what the timber value was, but if you just said $1000 an acre, that'd be another million-something dollars in value over and above the appraisal. I, I doubt the timber value was that high. I'm just using that as an example, but if it was 500, it'd be another $800,000. So, you know, there was several $1 million in equity in that Moselle property.
MR. GRIFFIN: All right, and did, did you have equity in the Edisto beach house?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Yes.
MR. GRIFFIN: And around June 7th, how much equity did you have in the Edisto beach house?
ALEX MURDAUGH: If I remember the records correctly, there was about $250,000 owed on that house and whatever the value was at the time. I, I think, I think there's a contract for just under $1 million, so 700 and something $1000.
MR. GRIFFIN: Did Maggie's death make it more difficult to obtain financing immediately after the murder around June 7th, 8th?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Maggie's -- yes.
MR. GRIFFIN: How so?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Because the entire Moselle property was 100 percent in Maggie's name. The Edisto property was 50 percent in Maggie's name, so I was only a half owner. So with Maggie, all I had to do was get her to sign the documents, which she always did. I mean, she didn't question finances. So, I mean, she signed the papers. When Maggie wasn't here, there was estate issues. I, I couldn't, I couldn't go and sign the papers like I would normally go and get a loan. So, I couldn't.
MR. GRIFFIN: On -- was there a hearing scheduled in the boating lawsuit where you were a defendant set for that week?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Yes.
MR. GRIFFIN: Do you remember what day it was scheduled for?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Well, I mean, I've heard the testimony and I knew -- I'm sure I knew at the time it was June the 10th, Thursday, June the 10th.
MR. GRIFFIN: Were -- what was your level of concern about that hearing coming up on June the 10th?
ALEX MURDAUGH: About that hearing?
MR. GRIFFIN: Yes, sir.
ALEX MURDAUGH: My level of concern about that hearing was about the venue motion that was coming up, which --
MR. GRIFFIN: What do you mean by venue?
ALEX MURDAUGH: A venue motion is -- venue is where a civil lawsuit is pending, and so there's laws and, and rules that govern where you can bring a case. There's laws and rules that govern how certain parties, a defendant or plaintiff, can go about trying to move it from one place to another. So, in this case the plaintiffs, the Beach family, had filed suit in Hampton County. Parker's was trying to move venue to Beaufort County, and I wanted the case to stay in Hampton County and, and really that was my only thought about -- I wasn't doing the legal work on those. I, I was a party in that case. I wasn't -- I mean, Danny Henderson was primarily representing me personally. John Tiller and Amy Bauer were representing me personally, and Dawes Cooke was representing me personally, and those were the guys that were doing the legal work. So, you know, I, I wasn't actually doing that work, but what I was concerned about was the venue motion. I had already done what I had to do for the financial motion, and, and Danny Henderson was on me about getting him a financial statement because --
MR. GRIFFIN: Let -- let's stop.
ALEX MURDAUGH: Okay.
MR. GRIFFIN: So, there was a motion to compel and seek a lot of financial records from you. Is that correct?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Absolutely.
MR. GRIFFIN: And were you concerned that your house, financial house was going to be opened up for the world as a result of that hearing?
ALEX MURDAUGH: No. I've been a plaintiff's lawyer like Mr. Tinsley that sat here. We do the same exact thing in my law firm. The, the guys in my law firm are some of the best lawyers that I've ever known, and they're definitely some of the best lawyers in the state, handling some of the biggest cases that have ever gone on in this state. In my twenty-seven years of practicing, plaintiffs always are trying to look and get financial documents of corporate defendants, of, you know, those type things. In my twenty-seven years, I've never been able to get a judge to order anything more than a net worth statement prior to getting into a phase at trial. So early on in the case, I am not aware of -- I personally have never, despite trying repeatedly, have never been able to get a judge to order the kind of information that Mark Tinsley was saying he was seeking.
MR. GRIFFIN: What -- were you working on a document for that upcoming hearing?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Yes.
MR. GRIFFIN: And what was that?
ALEX MURDAUGH: A financial statement. A financial statement lists your assets and your liabilities.
MR. GRIFFIN: And had you reached out to Jeannie Seckinger later that day on the 7th to get your current balance of your retirement account?
ALEX MURDAUGH: You know, I don't remember doing that, but that'd certainly be something that I, I did and because I, I would -- I know I'd have to have that for that financial statement. And the document that I prepared was what Mark Ball talked about that he found later in my office, and it was type -- it was handwritten, ready to be typed up by, you know -- because of the charges against Paul, I was so -- I kept everything very close in the civil case. It was Danny in his office who was doing it, and I had that document prepared, handwritten in the neatest handwriting that I could make because a secretary other than mine, a paralegal other than mine was going to be the person who was going to put those -- that financial information into the final document. And that's the document that Mark Ball talked about that he found on my desk whenever it was that he found it. So, that was what was going to be, if necessary, what was going to be used Thursday.
MR. GRIFFIN: Alex, jury's heard about testimony of you stealing client funds. Did you do that?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I did.
MR. GRIFFIN: Did you steal, divert that Faris fee away from the law firm?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I did.
MR. GRIFFIN: How did you get into such a financial predicament that led you to steal money that wasn't yours?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Well, I'm not quite sure how I let myself get where I got, but it came from -- you know, I battled that addiction for so many years. I was spending so much money on pills. I got in the spot I couldn't...
MR. GRIFFIN: Now, what type of addiction are you referring to?
ALEX MURDAUGH: My, my addiction is to, is to opiate painkillers.
MR. GRIFFIN: And when did you --
ALEX MURDAUGH: Specifically oxycodone, Oxycontin.
MR. GRIFFIN: And when did you first become dependent or addicted to opioids?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Oxycodone or opiates in general?
MR. GRIFFIN: Opiates in general.
ALEX MURDAUGH: I'm not quite sure of the exact date, but I can give you a timeframe. I, I hurt my knee really bad playing football in college and I had a knee surgery, and the, the, the medical science at the time was such that the, the, the surgery didn't work, bottom line. So, it, it, it, it just didn't last. So, within a couple of years of that I started having a lot of knee troubles, and ultimately I had to have a, a couple of surgeries. But this, this -- the last surgery I had was, I think, around 2002 or '4, and I think it was around '4. So, I would have started taking hydrocodone a couple of years before that, and I took hydrocodone, got addicted to that very quickly. I continued taking that for a long time. I would -- I'd, I'd force myself off of it. Wean myself off of it. I'd go back to it. I, I just -- I battled that for a long time, and after a while I was taking so much of that, I moved on to oxycodone. And, you know, I'm guessing that was around two thousand -- that transition was around 2008, '9, something like that. And, of course, you know, it, it just escalates and escalates and escalates.
MR. GRIFFIN: Did you receive treatment, go to detox on occasion?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I did.
MR. GRIFFIN: How many times?
ALEX MURDAUGH: That I went to detox or that I detoxed?
MR. GRIFFIN: Well, let's start with going to a detox facility.
ALEX MURDAUGH: I've been to a detox facility three times.
MR. GRIFFIN: When was the first time?
ALEX MURDAUGH: December of 2017.
MR. GRIFFIN: And before December 2017 had, had you tried to detox at home?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I tried to detox everywhere I could.
MR. GRIFFIN: When you --
ALEX MURDAUGH: Maggie would help me. Go ahead.
MR. GRIFFIN: Yeah, when you, when you went into a -- was it an inpatient facility?
ALEX MURDAUGH: The detoxes, the formal detoxes that I went to?
MR. GRIFFIN: In December 2017.
ALEX MURDAUGH: Yes, it was a in -- it was inpatient, and all three formal detoxes that I've done have been at the same facility called Sunrise Detox in Atlanta, Georgia.
MR. GRIFFIN: And as --
ALEX MURDAUGH: Very good facility.
MR. GRIFFIN: The jury's heard an audio tape of a telephone conference with SLED agents. Was that where you were during that meeting with Mr. Harpootlian and I?
ALEX MURDAUGH: That's correct.
MR. GRIFFIN: The first time you went to detox in Atlanta, how, how long a stay is that? Did you stay?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Seven days. It's the opiate detox program.
MR. GRIFFIN: And, and is there a difference between detox and rehab?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Yes.
MR. GRIFFIN: What's the difference?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Detox is the -- it's the act of getting the drugs out of your system, getting to the point where, okay, there is no longer a physical dependency, all right, and that's a big difference than the rest of the dependency. But the physical dependency is supposed to be gone after seven days. So, in other words, the -- I mean, there's so many things. Opiate withdrawal is, I mean, it's hard. But supposedly at the end of seven days, you don't have those physical symptoms like -- I don't want to be too graphic, but you're, you know, you're sick. You throw up. You, you have terrible diarrhea. You sweat like you're running a marathon. You can't hold your legs still. You, you, you can't lay down now like -- what I'm talking about, the, the legs moving, that goes away after about 24 hours. So, you know, after about twenty-four hours you can lay down again and, and, and maybe sleep some, but you sweat. You throw up. You have all -- I mean, you just have -- there's so many issues. But after seven days, those are supposed to be over. That's what detox is, the detoxification of your body.
MR. GRIFFIN: And what's rehab?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Rehab is the period that, that you go to learn how to stay off. You know, you're supposedly off after detox. Rehab is where you get help staying off.
MR. GRIFFIN: And before September of 2021, had you ever gone to that second stage of rehab?
MR. GRIFFIN: So in June -- excuse me, December 2017, how long did it take you to relapse once you got home from detox?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Not long at all. I mean, you're still going through -- you know, this physical dependency is gone. You still have -- I mean, you're still so sick. I mean, you just...
MR. GRIFFIN: Is that something you've been battling for quite some time?
ALEX MURDAUGH: As long as I can remember.
MR. GRIFFIN: How long have you been drug free, opioid free?
ALEX MURDAUGH: 535 days, and I'm very proud of that.
MR. GRIFFIN: I want to ask you questions about Labor Day weekend 2021.
ALEX MURDAUGH: Okay.
MR. GRIFFIN: You remember being confronted by your law firm?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Sure I do.
MR. GRIFFIN: And what were you confronted about?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Stealing money.
MR. GRIFFIN: And did you admit your misconduct to your law partners?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Well, to one of my law partners and one of my -- and my brother and my law partner, so Danny and Randy. Yeah, I mean...
MR. GRIFFIN: Did --
MR. GRIFFIN: Admit it, admitted it.
MR. GRIFFIN: They had learned about the fake Forge account. Did you admit the, the fake Forge account?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Yes, I did.
MR. GRIFFIN: And did you tell them about your opioid struggles, opioid addiction?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I told them about my addiction, yes, sir.
MR. GRIFFIN: To your knowledge, were any of your law partners aware of your addiction?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Not just to my knowledge. I'm, I'm certain that they were not aware of my addiction.
MR. GRIFFIN: How would you characterize your, your opioid use or addiction? Severe? Moderate?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Then or now?
MR. GRIFFIN: No. In 2020, 2021.
ALEX MURDAUGH: I mean, I, I don't know how I would have characterized it then. After going to rehab and learning, it's more the things I've learned. Really, talking to addicts about experiences, I mean, I, I will tell you that my addiction was extremely, extremely bad.
MR. GRIFFIN: How were you able to function? Or were you able to function?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Yes, I was able to function.
MR. GRIFFIN: You were able to practice law.
ALEX MURDAUGH: Yes.
MR. GRIFFIN: And were you successful practicing law while you were addicted to opioids?
ALEX MURDAUGH: On some level, yes, sir, I was successful, I mean.
MR. GRIFFIN: After you were confronted on Labor Day weekend 2021, did, did you resign or were you forced to resign from the law firm?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Absolutely.
MR. GRIFFIN: And then on Saturday, September the 4th, do you remember what happened that day?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Saturday, September 4th. Yes, sir, I remember.
MR. GRIFFIN: What? What happened?
ALEX MURDAUGH: When? Start when I woke up?
MR. GRIFFIN: Well, let's start after, after you met with Chris Wilson. Did you meet with Chris Wilson?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I met with Chris Wilson at my mom's and dad's house in Alameda.
MR. GRIFFIN: And did you lay it out for Chris Wilson, your opioid addiction and your misconduct?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I definitely laid out my addiction; I definitely gave him some details about monies that I had taken. I didn't give him -- we didn't go into all the details about all of it, but I certainly was very candid with him about the things that involved him.
MR. GRIFFIN: Had, had you already just contacted the, the detox facility before you met with Chris Wilson on the 4th?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I believe that we had already -- at that point I believe that we had already, already spoken to the guy that I knew from Sunrise and made arrangements for me to go there on Monday.
MR. GRIFFIN: Okay, and --
ALEX MURDAUGH: I know we had arrangements for me to go there on Monday, and I, I'm sure we had to have had it by then because I went to the hospital shortly after that. So, yes.
MR. GRIFFIN: And, and did you reach out to Blanca to get your insurance information?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I did.
MR. GRIFFIN: And for what purpose?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Because I was going to use my insurance at detox and rehab to help pay for it.
MR. GRIFFIN: And what would -- what was your immediate plans after, for the day after you met with Chris Wilson? Did you have plans to do anything? Have any other meetings on that Saturday?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I wanted to go and meet with Cory Fleming, who was another lawyer who was affected by the things I did.
MR. GRIFFIN: And did you --
ALEX MURDAUGH: And a good friend.
MR. GRIFFIN: Did you go meet with Cory Fleming?
MR. GRIFFIN: What did, what did you do instead?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I'd given my -- when, when I gave my pills to my brother Randy and Danny -- I, I think I gave them to Randy. But I'd taken -- I took a, I took a lot of pills because I knew I wasn't going to be taking any more. So, Randy had my pills. I had to get some from him the night before, but I only got a small amount. I, I could tell -- you know, I wasn't taking anything near like what I had been taking, so I knew what was coming. And I called someone to bring me more pills and before, I believe, before I met with Chris Wilson.
MR. GRIFFIN: And did you, you meet this -- did the person you call bring you more pills?
ALEX MURDAUGH: You know, I don't know if he brought me more pills or not because by the time I met with him after meeting with Chris and after, you know, the starting of the withdrawals, I changed my plans.
MR. GRIFFIN: And what, and what, what was the change in plans?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Not to get pills from him anymore and instead I asked ask him to shoot him.
MR. GRIFFIN: Did you ask him to shoot you as a sympathy ploy, or did you want --
ALEX MURDAUGH: As a sympathy ploy?
MR. GRIFFIN: -- to die? Yes, sir.
MR. GRIFFIN: Why did you ask him to shoot you? What, what was the end goal in your -- that you wanted to accomplish?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I meant for him to shoot me so I'd be gone.
MR. GRIFFIN: And who was this? Who did you ask to do this?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Eddie Smith.
MR. GRIFFIN: And did he, in fact, shoot you?
ALEX MURDAUGH: He did.
MR. GRIFFIN: And where? Where was that located? Not your gunshot, but where were you shot? In Hampton and Colleton County? Where? Where were you?
ALEX MURDAUGH: It was Hampton County. It's, it's right on the -- where the Salkehatchie Road that runs right along the Salkehatchie River.
MR. GRIFFIN: And why did you want to be gone?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I mean, I knew all this was coming to a head. I knew how humiliating it was going to be for my son. I'd been through so much. At the time, in the bad place that I was, it seemed like the better thing to do. I don't think that way now, thankfully, but I did at the time.
MR. GRIFFIN: Did you have a life insurance on you?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Oh, yeah, I had a lot of life insurance.
MR. GRIFFIN: Who was the beneficiary?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Maggie was the beneficiary.
MR. GRIFFIN: How much life insurance did you have?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Had $12 million. I had a $4 million policy and a 12 million -- and a $8 million policy, total of 12.
MR. GRIFFIN: Did you ever have any life insurance on Maggie?
ALEX MURDAUGH: No, never.
MR. GRIFFIN: Did you ever had any life insurance on Paul?
MR. GRIFFIN: Alex, will you tell this jury about Maggie and your relationship with her?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Y'all saw a picture. She was just as beautiful inside as she was outside and, I mean, she was so adventurous. I mean, she -- you couldn't tell her something was good or bad because she wanted to find out for herself. She wanted to do it, see it, experience it on her own, and form her own opinion. She was devoted. Those two boys, Buster, Paul, me, I mean, she made sure we didn't want for anything ever. Fun, playful. I mean, she had a laugh that, you know, you didn't even have to know what was funny. If you heard her laugh, you would laugh. You know, she had this little playful look where she'd smile at you and bite her lip. I can't do it but, I mean, when she'd just do it, it'd just melt you. You know, she was such a lady, such a feminine person, a girl, but then she had two boys. And she didn't grow up in the swamp and in the country riding 4-wheelers and hunting and fishing and, I mean, she, she changed everything.
She, she, she -- I mean, when she became a boy's mom, I mean, her life became ball and riding 4-wheelers and, I mean, doing those things. Now, don't get me wrong. She was still 100 percent girl. And you, you heard Marian say, I mean, she loved to do those things with her nieces, but, I mean, she threw herself into her boys' life, you know? She never took not working for granted. I mean, she, I mean, she might not have worked, but I promise you she worked and she worked, make sure me and Paul and Buster had everything. You know, she, she wanted a big family and pregnancy just didn't suit her. Her pregnancies were so hard. I would leave her in the mornings and she'd be sick. I'd come home and check on her, and she'd be sick. I'd come back at the end of the day, and she'd be sick. I mean, she was so sick all the time with both those boys. And, and when we had Paul-Paul, Maggie got in trouble and Paul-Paul got in trouble.
And this pregnancy didn't suit her, so we decided that, you know, we would just have the two boys and, you know, I just think how hard it was on her. Just made her love those boys so much more, and she did. But she was the kind of person, Maggie, you know, she could put on the most elegant ball gown and go to the governor's mansion and hang out with, you know, the most affluent people, whatever, or she could come down to -- you know, she could go to a food bank in Hampton or Walterboro and fit in. Everybody at both places would say when she left that Maggie, she's a good one. She's just a special person.
MR. GRIFFIN: Alex.
ALEX MURDAUGH: Very special person.
MR. GRIFFIN: Did you ever do anything to harm Maggie?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I would never hurt Maggie. Ever.
MR. GRIFFIN: Will you tell the jury about Paul, please, your relationship with him?
ALEX MURDAUGH: And Paul-Paul, Paul-Paul was just the brightest. He was bright. He's the most inquisitive young man. He wanted to be a part of everything. If you were working -- I can remember as a little boy, you'd be working on something. It didn't matter what it was. His little head was going to come in there, nose in there to see what you were doing. He was a man's man; he was 100 percent country boy. He was tough. I mean, he, he could hunt anything. He could catch any fish. He could run any piece of equipment; he could use any tool. I mean, he could do anything. He, at twenty-two years old, he could do so many things. I mean, he took care of so many -- and he was so tough. But, on the other hand, he had a side to him that was just so sweet. And he wouldn't come home where he wouldn't go check on his grandparents. He wouldn't go near Summerville where he wouldn't go out of his way, check on his grandparents.
You know, to be such a tough person -- he would get all his buddies and get on a boat and go watch a sunset. How many twenty-two year old people you know do stuff like that? I mean, he was such a special boy. He cared about people. He was fiercely, fiercely loyal. He was so misrepresented in the media. I mean, never, never an accurate story told about what he was. And I will challenge you right now. I will, I will challenge, everybody in this room to go find somebody, somebody that knew Paul-Paul and really knew him that did not have an ulterior motive that would say something negative about him. And I challenge everybody who can hear me now to do that. I mean Paul, was that kind of person. If you knew him, he would help you and he would be glad to help you. You know, I thought Mark Ball made a good point when he said, you know, Paul-Paul might not have, he might not have quite found his place yet. Paul was ADD, ADHD, and so he would jump around from thing to thing a lot.
But there is absolutely no question in my mind whatsoever that Paul-Paul would have found whatever that thing was that he was going to do and whatever that ended up being, he was going to be one of the best at it that, that you've ever known. And I'll tell you one more thing, and I didn't even know this when Paul was alive, but -- excuse me. Excuse me. When, when, when they were doing his eulogy, I gave the names of some of his friends, and he had a real cute friend that -- they were just friends, but a cute little girl that Maggie adored. I didn't know her very well. Maggie did. Maggie adored her, but they talked to her and, and Paul-Paul -- and we learned this from her, Julianne. And at twenty-two years old learned that Paul-Paul would tell his friends be present. Appreciate where you are, the things you have, and the people around you. I think a lot of that came from it hurt Paul so bad when Mallory died, but how many twenty-two year olds do you know that think that way -- be present, appreciate things around you -- at twenty-two years old?
MR. GRIFFIN: Alex.
ALEX MURDAUGH: He's the most special boy.
MR. GRIFFIN: Did you love Paul?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Did I love him? Like no other, he and Buster.
MR. GRIFFIN: Do you love Maggie?
ALEX MURDAUGH: More than anything. I loved Maggie from the first time we went out.
MR. GRIFFIN: Did you kill Maggie?
ALEX MURDAUGH: No, I did not kill Maggie. I did not kill Paul. I would never hurt Maggie, and I would never hurt Paul, ever, under any circumstances.
MR. GRIFFIN: Thank you. Please answer any questions the State may have.
ALEX MURDAUGH: Yes, sir. Thank you.
JUDGE NEWMAN: Gentlemen, we'll take a --
ALEX MURDAUGH: Excuse me, Judge.
JUDGE NEWMAN: We'll take a 10 minute recess. Please do not discuss the case.
ALEX MURDAUGH: I apologize, sir.
(The jury left the courtroom.)
JUDGE NEWMAN: Do not discuss your testimony during the recess. 10 minutes.
(A recess was taken.)
JUDGE NEWMAN: You may bring the jury.
(The jury returned to the courtroom.)
COURT BAILIFF: Jury is present, sir.
JUDGE NEWMAN: Thank you. Cross-examination.
MR. WATERS: May it please the Court?
JUDGE NEWMAN: Yes, sir.
CROSS-EXAMINATION
BY MR. WATERS:
MR. WATERS: Mr. Murdaugh, let's start with a few things we can agree on.
ALEX MURDAUGH: All right, sir.
MR. WATERS: You agree that the most important part of your testimony here today is explaining your lie for a year and a half that you were never down at those kennels at 8:44. Would you agree with that?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I, I think all of my testimony is important, Mr. Waters.
MR. WATERS: Would you agree that that's an important part of your testimony?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Sure.
MR. WATERS: All right, and would you also agree that the first time that law enforcement officers that you've talked to and the prosecution and here in open court ever heard you say that you lied about being in the kennels was today in this court?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Yes, I'm aware of that.
MR. WATERS: You would agree with that?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Yes, sir.
MR. WATERS: All this time later, this is the first time you've ever said that.
ALEX MURDAUGH: Yes, sir.
MR. WATERS: And you would agree to me -- with me that for years you were stealing money from clients?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Yes, sir, I agree with that.
MR. WATERS: And that you were stealing from your law firm.
ALEX MURDAUGH: Yes, sir, I agree with that.
MR. WATERS: And that had been going on since at least 2010.
ALEX MURDAUGH: I'm not sure of the exact date, but it's been going on a long time. I'll agree with that.
MR. WATERS: What's your best guess of the date?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I'm not sure. I, I have, I --
MR. WATERS: You don't know?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I don't take a dispute with 2010. I just don't know that for sure.
MR. WATERS: All right. Sure about a lot of things, but you don't know that. Is that correct?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I'm fine with that date, Mr. Waters. I, I don't have any reason to dispute it. I'm just not certain of it.
MR. WATERS: All right. Let's, let's just keep on things that we may be able to agree about, and let's talk first about your family's legacy here in the legal profession, okay?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Talk about anything you want to.
MR. WATERS: Tell me about your great-grandfather. Was he the solicitor for the very circuit that we're in?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Yes, sir.
MR. WATERS: And what was his name?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Randolph Murdaugh, Sr.
MR. WATERS: All right. What did he go by? Do you know?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Randolph.
MR. WATERS: Randolph, and did you ever get to know him or did he pass before?
ALEX MURDAUGH: No, no, sir. He got killed in 1940.
MR. WATERS: And how long was he solicitor?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Twenty years.
MR. WATERS: Twenty years.
ALEX MURDAUGH: Yes, sir.
MR. WATERS: And then your grandfather, who was that?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Randolph Murdaugh, Jr.
MR. WATERS: And did he go by -- what did he go by?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Buster. That's who Buster is named after.
MR. WATERS: And was he --
ALEX MURDAUGH: My granddaddy.
MR. WATERS: -- solicitor?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Yes, sir, he was the solicitor for forty-six, forty-six years from 1940. He took over when my great-granddaddy got killed, and he served until 1986. He was the longest serving prosecutor in the country.
MR. WATERS: And you knew him obviously well because he was your grandfather, right?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I knew him extremely well and loved him dearly.
MR. WATERS: You idolized him, did you not?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Yeah. Yeah.
MR. WATERS: So, he was --
ALEX MURDAUGH: I loved him dearly.
MR. WATERS: -- the chief prosecutor for all that time as well. Is that correct?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Yes, sir.
MR. WATERS: And then your father, Mr. Randolph, he became solicitor not long after that. Is that correct?
ALEX MURDAUGH: When my grandfather retired, because you weren't allowed to be solicitor after age seventy-two, my dad took over, filled his unexpired term, and then he ran.
MR. WATERS: And he became the chief prosecutor for this, this area right here as well. Right.
ALEX MURDAUGH: Yes, sir.
MR. WATERS: And how long was he solicitor?
ALEX MURDAUGH: From 1986 until 2006.
MR. WATERS: 2006.
ALEX MURDAUGH: Yes, sir.
MR. WATERS: I actually worked a case with him about a guy who killed trooper.
ALEX MURDAUGH: A fine, fine, fine, man, an excellent lawyer.
MR. WATERS: Yes, he was, and he was an excellent lawyer, right?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Yes, sir.
MR. WATERS: That's a big part of your family legacy and your heritage that's so ingrained around here is that history of being the chief prosecutor and being part of the -- central part of the legal community. Is that correct? Would you agree with that?
ALEX MURDAUGH: My family's been a central part of the legal community? Yes, I'd agree with that.
MR. WATERS: And not only just a central part of the legal community, but the chief prosecutor for this area since 1910, I think, up until 2006?
ALEX MURDAUGH: 1920.
MR. WATERS: 1920.
ALEX MURDAUGH: 2006. 1910 is when my great-grandfather started the law firm.
MR. WATERS: The law firm.
ALEX MURDAUGH: Yes, sir.
MR. WATERS: So, 1920 to 2006, correct?
ALEX MURDAUGH: That's correct.
MR. WATERS: An unbroken chain of being the chief prosecutor here, correct?
ALEX MURDAUGH: That's correct.
MR. WATERS: And then you went to law school as well. Is that right?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Yes, sir.
MR. WATERS: And when did you graduate from law school?
ALEX MURDAUGH: 1994.
MR. WATERS: And did you ever become a full-time solicitor?
ALEX MURDAUGH: No, sir.
MR. WATERS: And you -- so, you went into private practice, I think, with Moss and Kuhn. Is that right?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Yes, sir, 1994.
MR. WATERS: And then you went to the former law firm that no longer exists because of your activities, correct?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I started in --
MR. WATERS: Answer --
ALEX MURDAUGH: -- 1994.
MR. WATERS: -- my question if you would, please, sir.
ALEX MURDAUGH: What was your question?
MR. WATERS: My question was that you started first with Moss and Kuhn. Go ahead and answer that one.
ALEX MURDAUGH: Yes, that's correct.
MR. WATERS: And then you went to the law firm that doesn't exist anymore that started in 19 -- but it doesn't exist anymore because of your activities, correct?
ALEX MURDAUGH: That's correct.
MR. WATERS: And as part of that, of your practice, you were a trial lawyer, correct?
ALEX MURDAUGH: That's correct.
MR. WATERS: Successful trial lawyer.
ALEX MURDAUGH: I don't know about your adjective, but I was, you know, I guess so, yes, sir.
MR. WATERS: Did you make millions of dollars in legal fees?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Yes, sir.
MR. WATERS: But you won't tell this jury that's successful?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Well, if, if that's, if that's the criteria, yes, sir, I was successful.
MR. WATERS: Well, you won cases, correct?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I did win cases.
MR. WATERS: Settled cases?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Sure, I settled cases.
MR. WATERS: Heard your former law partners say that you were a successful lawyer.
ALEX MURDAUGH: I did hear some of them say that.
MR. WATERS: I think you even became president of the Trial Lawyers' Association. Is that right?
ALEX MURDAUGH: That's correct.
MR. WATERS: When was that?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I'm not sure of the exact year, but it would have been in the 2015 range, 2014, '15, '16, somewhere in there.
MR. WATERS: And in that role, you were kind of the president of the association of people who do trial plaintiff's work, right?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Yes, sir.
MR. WATERS: Do jury trials, correct?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Well, that, that --
MR. WATERS: That's part of it, right?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Yes, sir. That's, that's, that's part of it.
MR. WATERS: Sitting down, looking jurors in the eyes, and giving the closing arguments. Is that right?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Yes.
MR. WATERS: And what kind of cases did you normally do? Just generally what subject matter?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I, I did all kinds of cases. I did cases that -- I mean, I, I handled some very big cases. You know, I had a lot of cases where, you know, somebody, their cable company was billing them $20 more than they should have been, and I handled everything from that to the big cases and everything in between.
MR. WATERS: All right, so the big cases, tell me about those. Those were typically plaintiff's work. All of the plaintiffs were, correct, were big cases?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Yes.
MR. WATERS: Okay, and plaintiff's work is where -- or there would be, say, for example automobile or truck accidents, correct, or that's some of it?
ALEX MURDAUGH: All -- every big case I ever had was a automobile? I mean, no, sir. Not all of them were automobile wrecks.
MR. WATERS: Were many of them?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Sure.
MR. WATERS: And if they -- let's say if your plaintiff collided with, like, a UPS truck or a tractor-trailer or something like that, you've had cases like that, correct?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I have.
MR. WATERS: And they led to very big recoveries. Is that correct?
ALEX MURDAUGH: The UPS case that I handled?
MR. WATERS: Yeah.
ALEX MURDAUGH: Yes, sir.
MR. WATERS: And as a part of that, developing those types of cases, you were involved in investigating the facts of the case, correct?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Yes.
MR. WATERS: And you were involved in gathering, let's say, telemetry data from automobiles, correct?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Telemetry data like you presented in this courtroom this week?
MR. WATERS: Yeah. You never did that?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I've never had a case specifically where the type data that y'all have presented in this case that I've used, but I've had data from automobiles. I've had --
MR. WATERS: From their -- essentially their computers?
ALEX MURDAUGH: OnStar data. I've had data from the black box, you know, but specifically telemetry data, I don't believe that I've ever had one of those.
MR. WATERS: But OnStar and black box stuff.
ALEX MURDAUGH: More so the black box event recorder. I mean, many times in a wreck the, the event recorder will go back and tell you things leading up to the wreck.
MR. WATERS: Sure.
ALEX MURDAUGH: So, and I've been in numerous cases where those were involved.
MR. WATERS: And you've had cases where cell phone evidence was relevant to your case.
ALEX MURDAUGH: Sure.
MR. WATERS: People's call logs were relevant to your case.
ALEX MURDAUGH: I have had those.
MR. WATERS: Cell tower location was relevant to your case.
ALEX MURDAUGH: Yes.
MR. WATERS: Computer evidence was relevant to your case.
ALEX MURDAUGH: I'm sure I have, yes.
MR. WATERS: And when did you start with the law firm?
ALEX MURDAUGH: August or September of 1998.
MR. WATERS: And you've been doing essentially that kind of work more or less up until September of 2021, right?
ALEX MURDAUGH: That's correct.
MR. WATERS: To the point where you rose to be the president of Trial Lawyers' Association.
ALEX MURDAUGH: I was the president of the Trial Lawyers' Association around 2015, as we discussed.
MR. WATERS: Can we agree now on the success?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I mean, by those criteria I was successful certainly. I mean, we talked about a lot of my flaws here today, too. Do I feel like I was successful? No, sir, not sitting here today, I don't. But if, if you want to use that term and, and on, on those criterias, I, I don't have any problem with you saying at that time it looked like I was successful.
MR. WATERS: Do you think people viewed you as a successful lawyer?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I'm sure there were a lot of people that did.
MR. WATERS: Do you think people viewed your family as very prominent?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I believed that there were a lot of people that did, yes, sir.
MR. WATERS: Did you think that a lot of people viewed you and your family as very prominent in the legal community?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I never thought of myself as prominent.
MR. WATERS: I asked you if you thought people viewed you that way. Let me ask you --
ALEX MURDAUGH: At the time did I think people viewed me --
MR. WATERS: Yeah.
ALEX MURDAUGH: -- that way?
MR. WATERS: Yeah. Prior to everything happening.
ALEX MURDAUGH: No, I, I don't think that I thought people viewed me as prominent. No, sir. I mean, like a big shot? No, sir, I don't think that.
MR. WATERS: What about your family?
ALEX MURDAUGH: That my family thought we were big shots? No, sir,
I --
MR. WATERS: Did other people --
ALEX MURDAUGH: -- definitely don't think that.
MR. WATERS: -- view your family as prominent in this community?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Prominent as in?
MR. WATERS: It's not a hard question.
ALEX MURDAUGH: Well, I'm just not sure, you know. I think my family was very well thought of; I think my family was respected. I think my family helped a lot of people.
MR. WATERS: I'm not challenging you on any of that. I'm just getting you to agree what seems to be a basic fact. Would you agree with me?
ALEX MURDAUGH: With what? That my family helped a lot of people and was --
MR. WATERS: That your family --
ALEX MURDAUGH: -- well thought of?
MR. WATERS: -- was very prominent.
ALEX MURDAUGH: If, if, if that's what you mean by that, yes, sir.
MR. WATERS: And that your family had a very long association with law enforcement.
ALEX MURDAUGH: Yes, sir.
MR. WATERS: And you had a long association with law enforcement.
ALEX MURDAUGH: Yes. By, by association, I assume you're talking about friendships, yeah. I, I --
MR. WATERS: But not only, not only just friendships but also professional as well, correct? As a prosecutor?
ALEX MURDAUGH: As a prosecutor?
MR. WATERS: Professional associations with law enforcement.
ALEX MURDAUGH: As a prosecutor or as a --
MR. WATERS: Let's talk --
ALEX MURDAUGH: -- civil attorney?
MR. WATERS: Let's talk about the civil. Did you have associations with them in civil cases?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Sure. I mean, as we discussed, a lot of cases that I handled were wreck cases or might be a train wreck or tractor-trailer. There were a lot of highway patrolmen involved. There were a lot of local law enforcement involved. So, yeah, we dealt with a lot of law enforcement in the civil practice.
MR. WATERS: And then you also mentioned that you were a prosecutor as well, correct?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I was a volunteer assistant solicitor.
MR. WATERS: Did your -- did you or your family or your law firm ever have events or parties or social affairs in which the law enforcement community in this area was invited?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Sure. We -- the law firm itself didn't really sponsor things like that, but there would be occasions where one of us in the law firm -- and certainly we all had a lot of friends in law enforcement, and they were always invited.
MR. WATERS: And that -- it's a simple point. You had a lot of friends in law enforcement; your family and you had a long association with the law enforcement community in this circuit. Is that correct?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Association being friendships and working relationships? Absolutely.
MR. WATERS: All right. Well, let's talk about being a prosecutor. When did you become an assistant solicitor?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I believe that I became an assistant solicitor when I moved from Beaufort to Hampton. So, that would have been September, sometime around September 1998. Might have been a little bit after that, but sometime.
MR. WATERS: Did you get a badge when you became an assistant solicitor?
ALEX MURDAUGH: At some point I did, yes, sir.
MR. WATERS: And who gave you that badge?
ALEX MURDAUGH: My father.
MR. WATERS: Mr. Randolph?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Yes, sir.
MR. WATERS: And over the years, did you prosecute criminal cases much as what's going on here today?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Yes, sir, at times I did.
MR. WATERS: And --
ALEX MURDAUGH: I believe that I prosecuted in -- from 1998 to 2001, I believe that I --
MR. WATERS: 2001? Keep going. I'm sorry.
ALEX MURDAUGH: I mean 2021, I'm sorry, until 2021. From 1998 to 2021, I believe I was involved in five jury -- I believe, I believe there were five trials.
MR. WATERS: Five trials.
ALEX MURDAUGH: Is the best that I can remember and all with my -- all with my dad. That was really the purpose of me being assistant solicitor was getting to spend time with him, do things with him.
MR. WATERS: Sure, and you -- five jury trials over all that time, you had a badge that entire time. Is that correct?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I had a badge for a big part of that time, yes, sir.
MR. WATERS: You actually had two badges, right?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I had one badge but my, my -- when my granddad became an assistant solicitor for my dad when my dad became the solicitor, he had an assistant solicitor's badge. When he passed away, I had his badge and that was one of -- at some point in time, you were asking somebody about two badges and that was the other badge.
MR. WATERS: Okay. You said you did five criminal jury trials as a prosecutor, correct?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Assisted in those or was doing them, yes, sir.
MR. WATERS: Okay.
ALEX MURDAUGH: I believe I was actually the lead lawyer in one of them. I helped my dad in the other four.
MR. WATERS: Still a part of preparing the case?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Yes, sir.
MR. WATERS: Still part, part of gathering the evidence and putting it together for trial?
ALEX MURDAUGH: In, in a criminal case, we didn't do much gathering of the evidence. We took what law enforcement had gathered, but...
MR. WATERS: But putting it, putting it together for the criminal trial, correct?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Yes, sir.
MR. WATERS: Presenting evidence in court.
ALEX MURDAUGH: Yes, sir.
MR. WATERS: Giving jury argument.
ALEX MURDAUGH: I didn't -- I, I did the closing argument in one of them, yes, sir.
MR. WATERS: Did you ever have any cases that you prosecuted that went short of a jury trial, either pled out or dismissed for some reason?
ALEX MURDAUGH: You know, I'm sure that at some point over -- between 1998 and 2021 that I took some plea. But as we sit here today, I can't specifically remember that, and I don't ever remember working a case up for trial that didn't go to trial. But I'm sure at some point in time I was involved in some level on a -- on a guilty plea or guilty pleas.
MR. WATERS: You'd agree with me that the civil system and the criminal system have a lot of differences, correct?
ALEX MURDAUGH: A lot of differences and a lot of similarities, I agree with --
MR. WATERS: And a lot of similarities. That's where I was going next. Fundamentally, it's about analyzing the evidence, preparing for trial, presenting that case, and making the argument to the jury, correct?
ALEX MURDAUGH: That's, that's a big part of it.
MR. WATERS: And would you agree with me that as cases go on or as you are preparing for trial, that you analyze the evidence that's been gathered by law enforcement and present the evidence that, that supports your case, correct? That's just part of it.
ALEX MURDAUGH: Presenting evidence that you deem favorable for your position.
MR. WATERS: Yeah, that you analyze the evidence and then you, you put in the evidence that supports your case. It's an ongoing process.
ALEX MURDAUGH: Yeah.
MR. WATERS: Would you agree with me that?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Yeah. That's, that's part of what you do.
MR. WATERS: And same thing in the civil case, right? As you go along, you may have evidence, but you ultimately analyze that evidence and some evidence makes the cut, some of it does not. Is that fair to say?
ALEX MURDAUGH: As far as what you're trying to -- I, I think we --
MR. WATERS: Simple question.
ALEX MURDAUGH: -- agree on that.
MR. WATERS: We would agree on that.
ALEX MURDAUGH: I think so. I'm not exactly sure what your question is, but I think I understand it.
MR. WATERS: I'm just asking you that as a lawyer, as you've been since 1994 -- is that right?
ALEX MURDAUGH: That's correct.
MR. WATERS: It's a simple question. You analyze the evidence that's been gathered, whether civil or criminal, and then present that in court. Is that correct?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Yes, that's part of what you do.
MR. WATERS: That is an ongoing process as you prepare for a case. Is that correct?
ALEX MURDAUGH: An ongoing process as you prepare for in criminal court or civil court?
MR. WATERS: Either one.
ALEX MURDAUGH: Well, I mean, but there's a, there's a distinction because in civil court you have the deadlines, and so you aren't allowed to gather evidence during a trial or a week before trial or, you know -- for instance, if this was a civil trial and we found that OnStar data during the third or fourth week of trial, you wouldn't be able to use it because you're past deadlines, but in a criminal case, you are able to use it.
MR. WATERS: But you would agree that none of that was the fault of anyone on this side of the table that GM initially responded they had nothing and then responded all of a sudden that they did.
ALEX MURDAUGH: I don't have an opinion, and that's certainly not anything I'm intending to convey.
MR. WATERS: You talked to the jury a lot about that, but you know nothing about that particular part of it. Isn't that what you're telling us?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Talked?
MR. WATERS: You talked to the jury a lot about the GM data, but you're telling me that you're unaware that, that GM initially responded to law enforcement's timely request and said they didn't have that. But then in the course of the trial, all of a sudden came up and said you know what? We found something, and that's the reason why it arrived late. You're saying you didn't know anything about that after talking to this jury about that?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I, I don't know a single thing about that. I know that y'all represented that to the Court, and I don't have any reason to doubt it.
MR. WATERS: Good.
ALEX MURDAUGH: But I, I don't, I don't --
MR. WATERS: But you would agree that that's generally consistent with the telemetry data that the FBI had, correct, the OnStar data.
ALEX MURDAUGH: That the OnStar -- I think the OnStar data and the telemetry data are totally different.
MR. WATERS: All right, you don't, you don't think they're generally consistent with one another? Is that what you're telling this jury?
ALEX MURDAUGH: No, no, I'm not telling the jury anything about that. I'm just saying -- do I think they're consistent? I think they're telling -- I think the OnStar data tells one -- gives, gives you one set of information and the telemetry data gives you another set of information.
MR. WATERS: But you don't think they're consistent. You've talked about it --
ALEX MURDAUGH: I, I don't.
MR. WATERS: -- to this jury. I guess -- I think we're struggling on what seems to be a fairly simple point. Would you agree?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Mr. Waters, I'm just trying to answer your question and, and so I'm not trying to be difficult. I, I just -- my understanding of what, what you're referring to as the telemetry data is when the car goes into park and drive and that sort of thing. Is that what you're referring to?
MR. WATERS: Yes.
ALEX MURDAUGH: And the GPS information is telling you where a vehicle is on a certain path.
MR. WATERS: Correct.
ALEX MURDAUGH: And what direction it's going. So, I think that they're, they're just two -- they're two different types of information.
MR. WATERS: And the question was were they consistent with one another?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I don't -- I, I guess so. I don't think they contradict each other.
MR. WATERS: All right. You were the breadwinner for your family, correct, for your immediate family.
ALEX MURDAUGH: Yes.
MR. WATERS: And that included obviously for Maggie, correct?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I'm sorry?
MR. WATERS: That included for Maggie, correct?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Absolutely.
MR. WATERS: And in large measure for Buster and Paul as well. Would you agree with that?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Did I -- I was the breadwinner in large measure --
MR. WATERS: Primary breadwinner, breadwinner, yes.
ALEX MURDAUGH: No. I, I was, I was their source of -- I was the source of income for Maggie, Buster, and Paul. I mean, I guess as they got older, I mean, there's some point where Buster had a job, but, I mean, I would still consider myself the provider for, for them at that time.
MR. WATERS: Again, this -- I'm not trying to trick you here. I'm just trying to ask a simple question.
ALEX MURDAUGH: Mr. Waters, I don't think you -- I don't think that was a trick, so.
MR. WATERS: So, you were the primary breadwinner. We can agree on that, correct?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Yes, sir.
MR. WATERS: Go ahead, give me one second.
(Break in proceedings.)
MR. WATERS: All right, I'm going to show you what's been marked as State's 570 and see if you recognize this particular item. You can go ahead and take it out of the bag, out of the bag.
ALEX MURDAUGH: All right.
MR. WATERS: You know what that is?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Yes, sir.
MR. WATERS: That's 571?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Yes, sir.
MR. WATERS: And then I'm going to show you what was in the bag in 570. Can you can tell me what is?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I can.
MR. WATERS: All right. What is that?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Which one?
MR. WATERS: 570, what is that?
ALEX MURDAUGH: All right, 571 is what I would consider to be my badge.
MR. WATERS: All right, what is this one right here, which is 570?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Okay, 570 would be the one I told you about was my grandfather's badge after he retired when he became an assistant for my dad.
MR. WATERS: Your Honor, at this time I'd offer State's 571 and 570 into evidence.
MR. GRIFFIN: No objection.
JUDGE NEWMAN: They are admitted.
(BADGE MARKED AS STATE'S EXHIBIT NUMBER 570 WAS RECEIVED INTO EVIDENCE.)
(BADGE MARKED AS STATE'S EXHIBIT NUMBER 571 WAS RECEIVED INTO EVIDENCE.)
MR. WATERS: All right, where did you keep 570, the one that was your grandfather's?
ALEX MURDAUGH: It didn't have a single place that it was kept.
MR. WATERS: You know where it was recovered by law enforcement?
ALEX MURDAUGH: No, sir.
MR. WATERS: Would it -- would you dispute if it was recovered out of the Mercedes you were driving on September 4th, the day of the side-of-the-road incident?
ALEX MURDAUGH: No, I believe that.
MR. WATERS: Can I have the ELMO, please?
MR. WATERS: And 571, where did you, where did you keep this one?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Usually in my car.
MR. WATERS: Where in your car?
ALEX MURDAUGH: It could be all over it. Could be on the dash like you were talking to Mark Ball about. It could be in the center console. It could be in the cup holder, could be on the seat, be on the -- usually in the front seat, but in, in my car is where I tried to keep it.
MR. WATERS: And when you had it in your dash, would you have it face up or face down?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I didn't have any particular manner in which I stored it anywhere.
MR. WATERS: There was no rhyme or reason to it is what you're telling the jury how you had it in the dash?
ALEX MURDAUGH: There may be occasions where I had it in the dash for some particular reason, but there were a lot of times where it probably was in the dash for no particular reason other than that's where I put it. Just like I put it on the seat or in the cup holder.
MR. WATERS: You said there were particular reasons why you might put it in the dash. What would those reasons be?
ALEX MURDAUGH: It could be any number of things. If I'm going somewhere where I want somebody to see it, then I would put it in the dash. There's another reason for some -- somebody to see it, like, for instance if I get pulled over, I might have it in the cup holder so an officer could see it when he walked up.
MR. WATERS: Why would you do that? Why would you have it in your cup holder? You're not saying you were on official business, are you?
ALEX MURDAUGH: No, I'm not saying I'm on official business.
MR. WATERS: Well, why would you want it in a cup holder if you got pulled over?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Because I've found that law enforcement often times is friendlier when you're in law enforcement.
MR. WATERS: When you're law enforcement. So, you considered yourself law enforcement?
ALEX MURDAUGH: No, sir, I can't say that I considered myself law enforcement.
MR. WATERS: Well, you carried a badge on you as an assistant solicitor for two decades roughly for some time --
ALEX MURDAUGH: From around '98.
MR. WATERS: Is that correct?
ALEX MURDAUGH: So, yes, sir, two decades.
MR. WATERS: And you would ride with it sometimes sitting in the front dash facing out, correct?
ALEX MURDAUGH: That's correct.
MR. WATERS: And you would put it in the cup holder so that law enforcement would see it if you got pulled over, right?
ALEX MURDAUGH: That's correct.
MR. WATERS: Okay. So -- but you're -- you didn't consider yourself law enforcement?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I personally didn't consider myself to be law enforcement, no, sir.
MR. WATERS: All right. So, you were just using that badge to your advantage, taking, taking license with it. Is that correct?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I guess in some circumstances that is accurate.
MR. WATERS: So, you could use them to get away, see if you could use it to get away with something, correct? Get better treatment if you got pulled over?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Get better treatment if I got pulled over? I mean, that's, that's probably a fair statement that, yeah, if somebody in law enforcement saw that, yeah, I'd say that's true.
MR. WATERS: Did you have to take an oath when you got that badge?
ALEX MURDAUGH: No, sir.
MR. WATERS: You didn't?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Not that I remember. I, I don't -- I certainly don't recall taking one like going somewhere and raising my hand and --
MR. WATERS: Raising your hand and saying I promise to do my duty fairly and with integrity, you never had to do that?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Mr. Waters, if I did, I sure don't recall it. I mean, it was a very informal process when I became volunteer assistant solicitor for my dad and then when I continued with Duffy. I mean, at some point, you know, if, if I took any oath at all that I can remember, it would be on some paper that I may have had to sign, but I don't specifically remember doing that.
MR. WATERS: Let's talk about it. Let's go back, and on the inside of it, what are those right there? Are there the -- an ID card with your picture on it?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Yes, sir, that is.
MR. WATERS: All right, and at the top, on that top -- leave it in there, if you would, please. Can you not see it?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I can, but I was just going to see what's on the back.
MR. WATERS: Okay.
ALEX MURDAUGH: All right, sir.
MR. WATERS: All right, and it's got your picture on it, got your name on it?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Yes, sir, that does have my picture and my name.
MR. WATERS: Put that one back for me, please.
ALEX MURDAUGH: All right. So, you want to look at this top one?
MR. WATERS: Look at the top one.
ALEX MURDAUGH: Okay.
MR. WATERS: What, what office does it say that you are on that top one right there, right there at the top?
ALEX MURDAUGH: State of South Carolina, solicitor -- the solicitor of the Fourteen Judicial Circuit. It says that: As solicitor of the Fourteen Judicial Circuit, I do hereby certify that. And it has --
MR. WATERS: Your name.
ALEX MURDAUGH: Right, and it has all that data.
MR. WATERS: What, what position does it say that you're appointed to?
ALEX MURDAUGH: As the -- okay, it says that: As solicitor of the Fourteenth Judicial Circuit, I do certify that Richard A. Murdaugh was on July 1, 2013, appointed as the deputy solicitor of Allendale, Beaufort, Colleton, Hampton, and Jasper Counties and is authorized to enforce the laws in the Fourteenth Judicial Circuit of South Carolina.
MR. WATERS: All right. Awesome. Can I hold it back?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Yes, sir, signed by Duffy Stone.
MR. WATERS: Signed by Duffy Stone. So, deputy solicitor. Is that correct?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I was never a deputy solicitor, Mr. Waters. That's what that said, but I, I've never been a deputy solicitor unless deputy solicitor is -- I was a volunteer assistant solicitor and as far as I know, Sean Thornton has been the only deputy solicitor that Duffy Stone had.
MR. WATERS: And it's a simple point. It says deputy solicitor, but deputy solicitor is a higher rank than assistant solicitor, correct, to your understanding?
ALEX MURDAUGH: That's what I think and, and, and that was Sean Thornton. I've, I've never been deputy solicitor even though that does say that.
MR. WATERS: All right.
ALEX MURDAUGH: I agree with you, and that was signed by Duffy Stone, not by me.
MR. WATERS: I understand. This is what was given to you.
ALEX MURDAUGH: That's what was given to me.
MR. WATERS: Went through this whole long thing at the beginning about whether or not you have had an association with law enforcement community, but this was given to you not by your father but by a successor, correct?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Well, no, sir. I believe we got to this because you were talking -- asking me if I took an oath, and I don't remember taking the oath, and then you started asking me about these things.
MR. WATERS: Okay, and you agree that this card says deputy solicitor, right?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I agree that card says deputy solicitor.
MR. WATERS: Would you agree with me that it says on the back that it is: Reposing special trust and confidence in your ability, care, prudence, and integrity. Is that what it says on the back of this?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I mean, if you're --
MR. WATERS: You want to see it?
ALEX MURDAUGH: No, sir. I mean, I trust -- if you're reading that off the back of that, I assume that it does. You were reading off of the one that -- the one that Duffy Stone gave me, correct?
MR. WATERS: Yeah, and then the one at the top, where did that one come from? You want me to bring it back to you?
ALEX MURDAUGH: No, sir. I think I can see it. That would be --
MR. WATERS: It's not focused very well.
ALEX MURDAUGH: That's okay. I mean, I, I, I know what it is. I looked at it when you handed it to me. So, the, the card on the bottom is what I got from Duffy Stone. The one on the top -- and, and the one on the top should give you a better -- there we go. All right. So, the one on the top was what came from my dad when he was solicitor. The one on the bottom's what came from Duffy Stone when he was solicitor, and Duffy Stone took over after my dad retired in 2006. Duffy Stone filled my dad's unexpired -- the rest of his unexpired four year term, much like my dad filled my granddad's. So -- and then Duffy became the solicitor.
MR. WATERS: Did you ever have lights in your vehicle?
ALEX MURDAUGH: In the -- in the particular vehicle that --
MR. WATERS: No.
ALEX MURDAUGH: In any vehicle?
MR. WATERS: In any vehicle.
ALEX MURDAUGH: Yes, sir, I did.
MR. WATERS: Was that a government vehicle?
ALEX MURDAUGH: No, sir, it was not.
MR. WATERS: When did you have lights? Like, blue lights and stuff?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Yes, sir, I had some blue lights.
MR. WATERS: Why did you have blue lights? And what do -- remember you did five cases over twenty years. You had blue lights in your vehicle. It was private. It was your private vehicle, correct?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Well, it, it was the vehicle that I drove. It was law firm-owned vehicle.
MR. WATERS: The law firm's own vehicle, so how did you get blue lights in there?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I had them installed.
MR. WATERS: And who installed them?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I believe that Eddie Gibson installed them.
MR. WATERS: And who is that?
ALEX MURDAUGH: He's the guy who apparently does blue light work for most of the sheriff's departments in the Fourteenth Circuit and a lot of the police departments.
MR. WATERS: And did you -- when did you have that installed? Do you recall?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I can't --
MR. WATERS: Was it one vehicle or more than one vehicle? We'll start with that.
ALEX MURDAUGH: I believe I had it in -- I believe I had blue lights in one vehicle.
MR. WATERS: And when did you have that installed?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I'm not sure. It would have been --
MR. WATERS: Five years? Ten years?
ALEX MURDAUGH: No. Here. Here. I can give you a timeframe.
MR. WATERS: Okay.
ALEX MURDAUGH: The vehicle that I was in on -- that, that got taken in on June the 7th, I got that vehicle sometime around December, late December or January. So, I'd had it for six months. I would have had the previous vehicle for five years. That's how long we kept vehicles in the law firm, so I would have had it for five years. And it -- and, and some time during that five year period I had lights installed.
MR. WATERS: Did you ask the sheriff at the time if you could do that?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I did.
MR. WATERS: Who was that?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I believe it was T.C. Smalls, and I believe in Colleton it was Andy Strickland.
MR. WATERS: Colleton, it was Andy Strickland.
ALEX MURDAUGH: And I believe in Allendale it was Tom Carter.
MR. WATERS: Were you friends with Andy Strickland?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Yeah, I was friends with Andy Strickland.
MR. WATERS: And you -- you said, hey, I'm going to get some blue lights on my vehicle and he said that's cool or words to that effect?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I mean, that doesn't sound like the words that he would have used or I would have used, but I certainly asked him and he certainly said it was okay.
MR. WATERS: It was okay. All right.
ALEX MURDAUGH: Along with Sheriff Smalls and, I believe, Sheriff Carter. I'm not positive about Sheriff Carter, but I believe so.
MR. WATERS: I'm going to show you just real quick what's been marked as State's 507, see if you recognize that.
ALEX MURDAUGH: I believe this is my Suburban. Yeah, this is. This is my Suburban that, that y'all have.
MR. WATERS: Okay. Was that -- does that look like where your badge was on the day of the incident?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I have no idea.
MR. WATERS: You don't recall?
ALEX MURDAUGH: No, but I, I don't take issue with the fact that it's -- I don't take issue with the fact that it's there if that's, you know, if that's what -- how they say it was found and that's a picture.
MR. WATERS: Your Honor, we offer State's 507 into evidence.
MR. GRIFFIN: No objection.
JUDGE NEWMAN: It's admitted.
(PHOTO MARKED AS STATE'S EXHIBIT NUMBER 507 WAS RECEIVED INTO EVIDENCE.)
MR. WATERS: You testified some about the boat case, and we'll talk more about that.
ALEX MURDAUGH: Boat case being? I'm sorry.
MR. WATERS: Boat wreck case. We agree that that's what we talk about when we say the boat case, February 2019?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Well, there's two things. You -- you're referring to the civil case when you say the boat case. But when I think about the boat case, I think about the charges that y'all brought against Paul-Paul. So -- but there -- also the civil case.
MR. WATERS: Paul-Paul, that was your nickname for Paul?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I mean, I called him Paul-Paul. Maggie called him Paul-Paul. Bus calls him Paul-Paul. Ro-Ro calls him Paul-Paul. I mean, that's not --
MR. WATERS: Ro-Ro?
ALEX MURDAUGH: That's not --
MR. WATERS: Who's Ro-Ro?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Ro -- that's Rogan Gibson.
MR. WATERS: And this jury, of course, has heard multiple recorded statements of you during the course of this. Did you ever refer to Paul as Paul-Paul during that?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I don't know.
MR. WATERS: You don't? Do you recall?
ALEX MURDAUGH: How I referred to -- I can say Paul if you prefer that.
MR. WATERS: No. You can call him whatever you want. I'm just asking you if you ever called him that during the course of that entire investigation, or is that also the first time today, at least publicly?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Is today the first time I've called my son Paul Paul-Paul? No, sir, that is not correct.
MR. WATERS: Have you ever called him that on all the recorded statements that this jury's heard?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I don't know.
MR. WATERS: You ever call Rogan Ro-Ro?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I called him Ro-Ro --
MR. WATERS: In the recorded statements?
ALEX MURDAUGH: -- all the time.
MR. WATERS: In the recorded statements, did you ever call him that?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I don't know. I mean, I called him Rogan also, so I, I don't know. But I'm, I'm happy to call him Rogan and I'm happy to call Paul Paul.
MR. WATERS: All right. Well, let's talk about -- and I'll be, I'll be specific with the boat wreck criminal case and the boat wreck civil case, okay?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Yes, sir.
MR. WATERS: Is that fair?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Yes, sir.
MR. WATERS: All right, and we've talked a little bit about your badge. Did you have your badge with you on the night of the boat wreck?
ALEX MURDAUGH: On the night of, the night of the boat wreck did I have it with me?
MR. WATERS: Yeah.
ALEX MURDAUGH: When?
MR. WATERS: Did you go to the hospital that night?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I did go to hospital that night.
MR. WATERS: Did you have it with you then?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I don't know, but I don't believe so. But I, I, I really don't know.
MR. WATERS: You believe so?
ALEX MURDAUGH: But...
MR. WATERS: When you went to the hospital on the night of the boat wreck, were you acting in any official capacity?
ALEX MURDAUGH: The night of the -- when I went to the hospital, was I acting in an official capacity?
MR. WATERS: Yes.
ALEX MURDAUGH: No, sir.
(Break in proceedings.)
MR. WATERS: Let me show you what's been marked as State's 569, and do you recognize the person on the right in that image?
ALEX MURDAUGH: No, sir.
MR. WATERS: You don't recognize that?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I don't recognize him.
MR. WATERS: No, I'm asking about that.
ALEX MURDAUGH: Oh. Me?
MR. WATERS: Is that you?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Yeah, it looks like me.
MR. WATERS: All right, what's hanging out of your pocket in plain view?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Looks like a badge.
MR. WATERS: You didn't recall that until I just showed you that picture?
ALEX MURDAUGH: No, sir, I did not.
MR. WATERS: Your Honor, I'd offer State's 569 into evidence.
MR. GRIFFIN: No objection.
JUDGE NEWMAN: It's admitted.
(PHOTO MARKED AS STATE'S EXHIBIT NUMBER 569 WAS RECEIVED INTO EVIDENCE.)
MR. WATERS: That's you in the white shirt. Is that right?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Yes, sir, it is.
MR. WATERS: And this is the badge hanging out of your pocket. Do you remember which -- is that correct?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Looks to be, yes, sir.
MR. WATERS: Which badge is that? Which one of the two? Do you remember?
ALEX MURDAUGH: You can't tell from here.
MR. WATERS: Okay. Why did you have it hanging out of your pocket like that?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I don't remember having that. I, I don't know.
MR. WATERS: You don't remember that?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I don't remember that, no, sir.
MR. WATERS: Did you generally walk around with your badge hanging out your pocket?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Generally speaking no, sir, I did not.
MR. WATERS: Or only when you wanted some advantage from it.
ALEX MURDAUGH: Did I, did I --
MR. WATERS: Did you want some advantage from wearing it?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Did I hang it out my pocket when I wanted an advantage?
MR. WATERS: Yes.
ALEX MURDAUGH: I, I may have. I certainly may have.
MR. WATERS: What advantage did you want?
ALEX MURDAUGH: When?
MR. WATERS: Then.
ALEX MURDAUGH: I don't even recall this, Mr. Waters, but if I was wanting some advantage, as you say it, I guess -- and I don't remember this, but I guess I would want -- you know, as I said, a badge has a warming effect with other law enforcement. And so if I was seeking any advantage, as you say, then I guess that would be what it was.
MR. WATERS: Did you ever want to be the solicitor?
ALEX MURDAUGH: There was a time period where I did.
MR. WATERS: Did you ever want to be the, the solicitor?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Yeah, there was a there was a time period when I absolutely did.
MR. WATERS: When was that?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Prior to or around the time my -- prior to my dad retiring.
MR. WATERS: Prior? Prior to 2006?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Yes, sir
MR. WATERS: How long did you explore that?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I mean, I really -- I wanted to be, I wanted to be a solicitor for a long time, but, you know at the time when my dad retired, I was already struggling with pills, and I knew I couldn't do it.
MR. WATERS: In 2006?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Yes, sir.
MR. WATERS: We'll talk more about the pills in a bit, but you say you were already struggling with pills in 2006, correct?
ALEX MURDAUGH: That's correct.
MR. WATERS: But over that next fifteen years, you still were able to maintain a lucrative law practice. Would you agree with that?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Yes, sir.
MR. WATERS: And you've already testified that all your law partners had no idea of this pill problem that you had all that time, correct?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I'm testifying that I believe -- in fact, I'm certain that none of my partners knew I had an addiction.
MR. WATERS: That night of the boat wreck, you say you don't remember putting your badge out, correct?
ALEX MURDAUGH: No, I don't remember. I don't even remember having my badge.
MR. WATERS: Do you remember going around and talking to the kids, the other kids that were on the boat?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Yeah, I, I talked to some of them.
MR. WATERS: You remember going to do that?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Yes.
MR. WATERS: And was your badge hanging out when you did that as well?
ALEX MURDAUGH: You know, I wouldn't think so, Mr. Waters, but like I say, I didn't -- I don't think so.
MR. WATERS: So, it just comes naturally to put your badge out with something and you don't even remember why you did it.
ALEX MURDAUGH: No. I don't even remember having my badge, and I specifically know that I didn't use the badge. You know, did I mean to do this? I'm not saying that I didn't, but I don't know if I was putting it in my pocket and the flap -- you know, you noticed that that flap is, is not velcroed down. I don't know. I don't have a specific memory of that. And I never went around, you know, acting like I was on official business, so.
MR. WATERS: So, you're saying it might be an accident that your badge was hanging out?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I'm saying that I have no memory of that whatsoever.
MR. WATERS: All right. Well, did you ever -- you never used these badges as like a wallet, right?
ALEX MURDAUGH: No, I did.
MR. WATERS: You did?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I did.
MR. WATERS: So, you're saying you had your credit cards and all your stuff in there?
ALEX MURDAUGH: No, sir.
MR. WATERS: Then?
ALEX MURDAUGH: No, sir. I'm not saying that, and I'm not saying that on that night. You just asked me if I ever used it as a wallet, and there were times when I used it as a wallet.
MR. WATERS: Were you using it as a wallet that night?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I don't remember, but I don't think so. I didn't use it as a wallet very often, and I didn't use it as a wallet for very long when I did use it as a wallet.
MR. WATERS: All right, so let's see if we can get back to what we agree on. So, you would agree that you had to make a conscious decision to grab that badge and -- when you went into the hospital, correct? Would you agree with that?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Yeah, at some point I had to make a conscious decision to pick it up.
MR. WATERS: But you're saying you don't know if you hung it out like that on purpose while you're talking to that law enforcement officer, or if it's just an accident that it's hanging out of your pocket in full view of everyone?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Well, I am saying that because that is not how I would normally carry a badge. And even if I wanted to give somebody an impression, to me that's got kind of an obnoxious look to it. That's just not something that -- I mean, that's not something I would typically do. But I'm -- I may have done it that night. I have no memory of that.
MR. WATERS: Okay. All right, so you're saying that just could be an accident it's hanging out like this?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I'm saying it could be or I could have put it there like that. I don't remember.
MR. WATERS: Did you generally just walk around with it in your pocket? Or would you only carry it when you wanted to use it for something?
ALEX MURDAUGH: No, I wouldn't generally carry it around in my pocket just any time.
MR. WATERS: Okay. All right, all right. So, we've got the badge that may be accidentally hanging out of your pocket. You won't concede that you did that purposefully.
ALEX MURDAUGH: I mean, Mr. Waters, if you want me to say I did that on purpose, I don't have a problem with that. I'm saying I don't remember that, all right? So, can I tell you that I did that on purpose? No, sir, I can't. Can I say that, that this happened by accident? No, sir, I can't. What I can say is I don't remember it, and that's not how I would normally -- that's just not how I would normally -- you know, that's, that's just not -- that's not something I did. That's not a normal thing, so I don't know.
MR. WATERS: Okay. All right. That's fine.
ALEX MURDAUGH: But --
MR. WATERS: You don't concede to this jury that there was any intention or purpose to doing that at the hospital on the night of the boat wreck.
ALEX MURDAUGH: I'm saying I don't remember using that badge. And I specifically remember, you know -- I'm sorry. Go ahead. You -- you go ask your next question.
MR. WATERS: Specifically remember what?
ALEX MURDAUGH: That I, like, when I went into the room with the kids, did I pull my badge out, and I know that I did not do that.
MR. WATERS: No, because it was on your pocket like that, correct?
ALEX MURDAUGH: It's on my pocket like that right then.
MR. WATERS: Did you use that to get into the areas that shouldn't be accessed by non-official personnel?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Absolutely not. I mean, there was nowhere that I went that it was not truly public domain. I mean, basically the places that I went to were when I got there, I went to Paul-Paul. When I left Paul-Paul, I went to Morgan Doughty, who was like a daughter to Maggie and I who had dated Paul for a long time, and I went to Morgan. Morgan had an injury to her hand that, that, that was bad, and she was very upset about Mallory. And they were working on her, so I left her room. I went back to Paul-Paul. At some point in time I know that I went to Connor's room, and I believe those are the only rooms I went to. But again, I don't -- I can't tell you that with certainty.
MR. WATERS: While you were wearing that badge like that, did you tell anybody, any of the kids who run the boat wreck not to cooperate with law enforce?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I never told anybody not to cooperate with law enforcement. Whether I had a badge hanging out my pants, didn't have a badge, or any point in time did I tell anybody don't cooperate with law enforcement.
MR. WATERS: Did you become aware in March or April or May of '21, 2021, shortly before June that an investigation into the investigation of that night had begun, as well as your conduct?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Yeah, some -- I did learn. I did learn of that. I don't know the status of that investigation. Being that I've been charged with so many things and haven't been charged with that, I'm assuming that --
MR. WATERS: All right, my question was simple.
ALEX MURDAUGH: -- there may not be charges.
MR. WATERS: Whether or not you were aware that that had begun in the spring of 2021.
ALEX MURDAUGH: Yes, sir, I was. I was aware. Well, at some point in time I became aware of it. Was that the -- was it, you know, February, March, April? I know it was after, after -- I, I know it was after that night and it was before June 7th.
MR. WATERS: Before June 7th.
ALEX MURDAUGH: I'm pretty sure that I, I already -- I'm pretty sure that I already knew that.
MR. WATERS: Did --
ALEX MURDAUGH: On June the 7th.
MR. WATERS: You mentioned Andy Strickland. Do you know what happened to him?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Do I know what happened to him when?
MR. WATERS: How he lost his job as sheriff?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I believe that when he was charged -- I can't -- I, I don't know if he resigned or he was suspended.
MR. WATERS: Okay. You remember if that was a few months prior to you becoming aware of an investigation into the investigation of this boat case, including you?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Do, do I know what now?
MR. WATERS: That Andy Strickland was charged and lost his job. Was that a few months prior to you becoming aware of the investigation into this incident that's on the screen?
ALEX MURDAUGH: A few months prior? I don't really know this for a fact but I believe, as I'm sitting here today, I believe that Andy was charged back in the fall. And like -- and like I said, we learned about when -- I've testified about when I understood there was an investigation into whether or not I was acting in a public manner or whatever, whatever it was y'all were investigating. Public corruption or, or that. So, if it was a couple of months, if it was a month or two when Andy Strickland got charged, then, I mean, if you showed me that, I'd be, I'd be surprised because I think it was -- I think, I think he was charged before that.
MR. WATERS: But your -- this was a friend of yours, correct? The guy you -- who you asked if you could put lights in your car, in a private vehicle, correct?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Well, I mean, Andy -- yeah, I considered Andy a friend. I considered T.C. a friend, and I considered Tom Carter a friend.
MR. WATERS: Sure.
ALEX MURDAUGH: All of whom I asked if I could put lights in the vehicle.
MR. WATERS: All right, and --
ALEX MURDAUGH: So, yes, sir. I mean, I considered Andy a friend.
MR. WATERS: Would you at least agree with me that in at least the fall of 2020, your friend Andy Strickland was indicted and lost his job for a financial and corruption investigation?
MR. GRIFFIN: Objection, Your Honor. Relevance.
JUDGE NEWMAN: Response.
MR. WATERS: Your Honor, I think there's a link between his knowledge of that and what he's admitted, that there was an investigation going on in the months prior to the murders.
JUDGE NEWMAN: Anything further?
MR. GRIFFIN: The question is something about Andy Strickland being indicted. I just don't see the relevance, Your Honor.
JUDGE NEWMAN: I sustain the objection.
MR. WATERS: All right, we can at least agree that you were aware prior to the murders that there was this investigation, correct? The one on the screen, the one related to the boat, the investigation into the boat case.
ALEX MURDAUGH: Was I aware that y'all had started an investigation into what I did in the hospital prior to June the 7th?
MR. WATERS: Yes.
ALEX MURDAUGH: I believe that to be correct. And if it wasn't before that, it was shortly after it.
MR. WATERS: You testified that you've had a pill addiction for approximately twenty years, correct?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I think that's, I think that's about right.
MR. WATERS: And so when did you start stealing money from clients? How long did it take before you started doing that?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I'm not sure when the first time I did that is.
MR. WATERS: You don't know?
ALEX MURDAUGH: No, sir, not as we --
MR. WATERS: You haven't gone back and thought about that?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Oh, sure, I've thought about it. But to be able to sit here and -- I mean, you've got to understand. I've been in rehab and I've been in jail, and I don't have access. You know, all my telephone calls were put on the media, so I haven't had a lot of phone access. I haven't had a lot of access. So as we sit here today, I cannot tell you the exact time. I don't deny that I did it, but I can't tell you the exact time that I first did it.
MR. WATERS: You told this jury that's the cause of your financial problems.
ALEX MURDAUGH: Did I say that pills --
MR. WATERS: Your opiate addiction was the cause of your financial problems.
ALEX MURDAUGH: It was certainly a cause, yes, sir.
MR. WATERS: Not the only cause though, right?
ALEX MURDAUGH: No, I wouldn't think it was the only cause, but, yeah, it was certainly a cause.
MR. WATERS: Do you recall testimony in this courtroom about how you had some land deals go bad around the time of the recession of 2008, 2009?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Sure.
MR. WATERS: And do you recall testimony from your law partners in this courtroom that you had some big cases that they thought cured those issues, correct?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I heard them say that, yes, sir.
MR. WATERS: Do you disagree with that?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Do I disagree with what they thought? No. I mean, I don't, I don't have --
MR. WATERS: Do you have --
ALEX MURDAUGH: -- any reason---
MR. WATERS: -- any reason to disagree that was true?
ALEX MURDAUGH: That they thought -- that, that, that my partners thought that, that I, I'd gotten past my financial difficulties? I have no reason to dispute that, Mr. Waters. I'm not trying --
MR. WATERS: Was that --
ALEX MURDAUGH: -- to frustrate you.
MR. WATERS: -- true? Was what they thought true?
ALEX MURDAUGH: That I was past my financial difficulties? Is that the question?
MR. WATERS: Yes, that's the question.
ALEX MURDAUGH: Was it true that I was past my financial difficulties? I mean, they were certainly better after that, but, I mean, no, I don't, I don't -- no, I don't think I was past them. No, sir.
MR. WATERS: What was the first big case after the recession that you had?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Mr. Waters, I can't tell you what the first big case was. What? What date?
MR. WATERS: Let's go with the Pinckney case. Do you remember when that was?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I remember generally speaking when it was, yes, sir.
MR. WATERS: What year was that? 2011, would you dispute that?
ALEX MURDAUGH: 2011? What, when it ended?
MR. WATERS: When you got recoveries in that case.
ALEX MURDAUGH: I mean, if you're looking at something that tells me that --
MR. WATERS: All right.
ALEX MURDAUGH: -- I have no reason to dispute that, but I can't remember off the top of my head, but that, that's certainly in the timeframe.
MR. WATERS: It's fine, Mr. Murdaugh. We'll go through it. Let's do it.
ALEX MURDAUGH: Mr. Waters, like I said, I, I take you at that. I just don't know off the top of my head. I don't have a reason to dispute that.
MR. WATERS: All right, I'm going to show you what's been a admitted into evidence as State's 331 -- actually 332, 333, and 334. Do you recognize those documents? Just generally do you recognize them?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I do.
MR. WATERS: All right, and just generally what are those? Those are disbursement sheets. Can I have them back, please?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Yes, sir. Just give me one second.
MR. WATERS: Yeah. Take your time.
ALEX MURDAUGH: Trying to see which ones. All right, there's some things about it that I'm curious about, but --
MR. WATERS: Yeah, we'll talk --
ALEX MURDAUGH: -- you ask your questions.
MR. WATERS: -- talk about that. We'll talk about it. All right, let's talk about -- let's start with Natasha Thomas. Do you remember her?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I do.
MR. WATERS: How old was she when she became your client?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I'm not sure. She was young.
MR. WATERS: She was a teenager?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I'm not sure, but I know she was young.
MR. WATERS: She was underage, correct?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Yes, she was underage. I do believe that. In fact, I know that.
MR. WATERS: And can you tell me what the -- she was injured in a -- in this wreck with a -- in an automobile wreck, correct?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Yes.
MR. WATERS: And the company Michelin, that was one of the defendants for an alleged tire issue. Is that correct?
ALEX MURDAUGH: That is correct.
MR. WATERS: All right, and do you remember how much Natasha Thomas got in that particular case, and I can show it to you on 334. Do you remember how much she got?
ALEX MURDAUGH: As a gross settlement, I believe it shows --
MR. WATERS: Yeah.
ALEX MURDAUGH: -- 2,000,000, $2 million.
MR. WATERS: $2 million, all right, and how much were your or PMPED's fees that would be attributed to you in that out of that $2 million?
ALEX MURDAUGH: $800,000.
MR. WATERS: $800,000?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Yes, sir.
MR. WATERS: All right.
ALEX MURDAUGH: Excuse me.
MR. WATERS: All right, and so that would be $800,000 in fees that would get attributed to you. That has nothing to do with the money that you subsequently stole from that teenager, correct?
ALEX MURDAUGH: The 800,000 is different from money that I stole?
MR. WATERS: Yes.
ALEX MURDAUGH: That's correct.
MR. WATERS: All right. So, you got $800,000 attributed to you with the firm, but that was not enough. You also stole money from that teenager. Is that correct?
ALEX MURDAUGH: That is correct.
MR. WATERS: All right. When you did that, did you sit down with her, much as you sat down with this jury, and explain to her what was going on while you were stealing her money?
ALEX MURDAUGH: That would be the normal process, but I certainly don't remember specifically doing that.
MR. WATERS: That would be the normal process, correct?
ALEX MURDAUGH: It would be. It may be a little different with a teenager, but certainly, I mean...
MR. WATERS: You would sit down with them across the table and go through these documents, correct?
ALEX MURDAUGH: If, if -- that, that would not be abnormal, yes, sir.
MR. WATERS: All right, and then you would try -- you would explain to them what was going on and how they were getting everything they were entitled to, correct?
ALEX MURDAUGH: If I was the one doing it, yes, sir.
MR. WATERS: And you look them in the eye while you did that, correct?
ALEX MURDAUGH: It wouldn't be unusual for me to look them in the eye.
MR. WATERS: While you were doing some fast talking to a teenager, correct?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I certainly was not telling her the truth. I don't know if I was talking fast or slow, but I wasn't telling the truth.
MR. WATERS: Well, you ultimately convinced her that there was nothing amiss here, right, while you were stealing her money, correct?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I don't know if I convinced her that nothing was amiss or I misled her. But I admit candidly in all of these cases, Mr. Waters, that I took money that was not mine, and I shouldn't have done it. I hate the fact that I did it. I'm embarrassed by it. I'm embarrassed for my son; I'm embarrassed for my family. And I don't dispute that I did it. I --
MR. WATERS: I understand.
ALEX MURDAUGH: And so --
MR. WATERS: And you understand that we have to ask about these things because we've heard about it in a very academic paperwork manner, but every single one of these, you had to sit down and look somebody in the eye and convince them that you were on their side when you are not, correct? That's what you did in every single one of these.
ALEX MURDAUGH: I mean, every time --
MR. WATERS: Answer my question yes or no and then you can explain. I'll let you explain all day long.
ALEX MURDAUGH: Well, I mean, no, sir, that may or may not be true. And, Mr. Waters, just to try to get through this quicker, I admit --
MR. WATERS: I know you want to get through it quicker, but we're not. So, answer the question.
ALEX MURDAUGH: Well, what, what, what I, what I admit is that I misled them, I did wrong, and that I stole their money. Now, this, this is something -- what's the date on that one?
MR. WATERS: I'll bring it back to you.
ALEX MURDAUGH: Well, you can tell me. I, I trust you to tell me accurately.
MR. WATERS: All right. Well, that one's kind of funny. It doesn't have a date on it, but I'll let you take a look at it.
ALEX MURDAUGH: All right, I'm just looking at the date of a check. So, that's December 20 of 2011. So, that gives us --
MR. WATERS: 2011?
ALEX MURDAUGH: -- a ballpark. So, that's twelve years ago. For me to sit here and tell you specifically that I remember sitting down and talking with Natasha Thomas, I, I can't tell you that. But what I can tell you and -- I can tell you that I didn't do right by Natasha Thomas. I took money from Natasha Thomas that didn't belong to me, and I was wrong for doing that, and I admit that.
MR. WATERS: I know, Mr. Murdaugh, that you would like for it just to be as simple as that. Just to say yes, ladies and gentlemen, I stole money and have that be the end of it. But in every single one of these cases --
MR. GRIFFIN: Objection to the comments, Your Honor.
MR. WATERS: You just testified that you would like to just admit that. It would make this quicker, correct? Isn't that what you said? Isn't that what you implied?
ALEX MURDAUGH: No, sir, Mr. Waters. You have charged me with murdering my wife and my son, and I have sat here for all these weeks listening to all this financial stuff that I did wrong that I'm embarrassed by. I'm happy to talk to you about as much of that as you want to talk about.
MR. WATERS: All right. Well, good. We'll do that.
ALEX MURDAUGH: I'm required to talk about it as much as you want to talk about it. But the fact is, is I cannot specifically remember sitting down. The details that you're asking me for, I can't tell you, but what I can tell you is that in all these financial situations, I stole money that was not my money. I misled people that I shouldn't have misled, and I did wrong. I can tell you that, and I may be able to tell you specifically in some instances what I did or didn't do.
MR. WATERS: Well, good. Well, we'll do that. But the point that I'm asking you is, is it's not just as simple as some paperwork. You had to sit down and deal with these people and convince them that you were telling them the truth in order to steal this money, correct?
ALEX MURDAUGH: That, that may not be true because in some situations, I may not have had to do that. They may have just trusted me to do it.
MR. WATERS: Okay.
ALEX MURDAUGH: So, that's my point is I misled them. There's no question about that. But did I sit down in each particular instance and like -- like you're breaking it down step by step, I can't say that. I could say I did wrong. I stole money that wasn't mine, and I shouldn't have done it.
MR. WATERS: All right.
ALEX MURDAUGH: And it was terrible what I did.
MR. WATERS: All right. Well, let's look at State's 330. This is Arthur Badger and the UPS case, correct?
ALEX MURDAUGH: That's correct.
MR. WATERS: Do you remember what the total recovery was in that particular case? There were multiple plaintiffs. Let me ask you that first. There were multiple plaintiffs in that case, correct?
ALEX MURDAUGH: That's correct.
MR. WATERS: And do you remember what the total recovery was?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Not exactly but, I mean, I know generally.
MR. WATERS: Was it $12 million? Would you disagree with that?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Was it 12 million? I mean, if you tell me it was $12 million, then I'll believe you, but I thought it was a little bit more than that.
MR. WATERS: All right, and if ultimately -- if you have multiple plaintiffs, how do you decide as the plaintiff's lawyer -- how does it work out that amounts of that total recovery get allocated to individual plaintiffs?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I mean, different cases in different ways.
MR. WATERS: Is it true that often the defense attorneys, the civil defense attorneys will ask the plaintiff's attorneys how you want that allocated?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Sometimes. Yeah, sure.
MR. WATERS: Sometimes. Is that what happened in this case, in the Badger case?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I can't remember exactly how we came to that.
MR. WATERS: Who was the, the deep pocket in the Badger case? You remember the defendant that had the money that you ultimately recovered from the vast majority? Do you remember?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Well, it was UPS and I believe it was -- I can't remember if it was corporate or if there was insurance, but it was certainly UPS was the major defendant. But I believe Arthur Badger was a defendant. I can't remember. I know, I know UPS was.
MR. WATERS: Did you sit down with him and explain this paperwork that you were using to steal his money?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I believe I did sit down with Arthur Badger.
MR. WATERS: And managed to convince him that nothing was amiss while at the same time stealing money?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I believe I did.
MR. WATERS: And did you allocate millions of dollars to Arthur Badger personally while only telling him that his recovery was going to be around $300,000?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I believe that I did, yes, sir.
MR. WATERS: And on this Exhibit 330, sat down and looked him in the eye with all this stuff on here and fast talked him past these figures, that he believed you and left thinking that you had done him right?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I would have -- I believe --
MR. WATERS: Did that --
ALEX MURDAUGH: -- that I sat down with Arthur Badger, and I know that I misled Arthur Badger, and I'm sure at some point during that conversation that I looked him in the eye.
MR. WATERS: Going back to State's 333, you remember Hakeem, Hakeem Pinckney? Do you remember him?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I do.
MR. WATERS: What happened to him?
ALEX MURDAUGH: He was injured in the same wreck that Natasha Thomas was injured in.
MR. WATERS: Was he badly injured?
ALEX MURDAUGH: He was.
MR. WATERS: How badly injured was he? Do you recall?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Yes. He was terribly injured. He became a -- I can't remember what level, but he was a quadriplegic.
MR. WATERS: Do you remember what the total recovery amount was for him?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Not off the top of my head, no, sir.
MR. WATERS: All right, let me show you State's 333 and see what totals you recall, what the total recovery was in that case.
ALEX MURDAUGH: It looks like it was $10,245,000.
MR. WATERS: And that was for Hakeem, correct?
ALEX MURDAUGH: That's correct.
MR. WATERS: And how much of that was the attorney's fees that would have gone to PMPED that would have been attributable to you?
ALEX MURDAUGH: $4,098,000.
MR. WATERS: $4 million in legal fees that you would have gotten from this settlement. Is that correct?
ALEX MURDAUGH: $4,098,000, yes, sir.
MR. WATERS: And in the end, that wasn't enough for you, correct? Was that enough for you?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Was that enough for me in that case?
MR. WATERS: Yes.
ALEX MURDAUGH: I mean.
MR. WATERS: Was 4 million, over $4 million in legal fees that you received that would have been attributable to you through the law firm at the end of the year, whatever it worked out to be, that you would have been credited with over 4 million in fees for that? Is that correct?
ALEX MURDAUGH: That's correct.
MR. WATERS: And was that enough for you?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Was that enough for me?
MR. WATERS: Or did you take more from --
ALEX MURDAUGH: Oh, no. I, I took monies from Hakeem Pinckney that I -- that did not belong to me that I should not have taken.
MR. WATERS: Been rendered a paraplegic?
ALEX MURDAUGH: No, sir. He was a quadriplegic, unfortunately.
MR. WATERS: Quadriplegic. Thank you. Correct?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Yes, sir.
MR. WATERS: You ultimately take money from his mother, Pamela, as well.
ALEX MURDAUGH: I believe that I did.
MR. WATERS: Do you remember how much money you took from Hakeem?
ALEX MURDAUGH: No, sir, not off the top of my head, I do not.
MR. WATERS: If I told you it was over $370,000, would you agree with that?
ALEX MURDAUGH: If, if, if that's what the records show, I don't dispute that.
MR. WATERS: Do you remember how much you took from the teenager Natasha Thomas in addition to your legal fees?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Not off the top of my head, no, sir.
MR. WATERS: If I told you it was over $350,000, would you agree with that?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I don't dispute it.
MR. WATERS: Do you remember how much you took from Arthur Badger?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Not off the top of my head, no, sir.
MR. WATERS: If it was over $1.3 million, would you agree with that?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I don't dispute it.
MR. WATERS: Around the time that this was going on, did you have some land deals that were going bad, that had gone bad?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Which?
MR. WATERS: 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011.
ALEX MURDAUGH: I, I think that they -- I think those had happened a little bit before that, but I, I had some land deals that, that, you know, had certainly had problems.
MR. WATERS: And that had something to do with the money you were taking as well, did it not?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I think the whole picture had things to do with me doing stuff I shouldn't have done. I mean, I, I would agree that -- I mean, that that certainly would have played some role in it.
MR. WATERS: Were you living a wealthy lifestyle?
ALEX MURDAUGH: A wealthy lifestyle? Probably. I mean, we were living whatever lifestyle. Probably.
MR. WATERS: Would you characterize your lifestyle as wealthy?
ALEX MURDAUGH: You know, that's not, that's not how I would characterize it, but --
MR. WATERS: You wouldn't --
ALEX MURDAUGH: -- I'm not going --
MR. WATERS: -- characterize it as wealthy?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I'm not going to take issue with it.
MR. WATERS: Around this time, were you making more than $1 million a year?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Around what time?
MR. WATERS: 2012.
ALEX MURDAUGH: Yes.
MR. WATERS: 2012?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Yes.
MR. WATERS: And you were still stealing money as well, correct?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Yes.
MR. WATERS: Can we at least agree that that's a lot of money?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Over $1 million?
MR. WATERS: Never mind. That's fine.
ALEX MURDAUGH: I think there's no question that's a lot of money.
MR. WATERS: Okay, good. We can agree on that. That's a lot of money, correct? I, I feel like we're struggling here. Is it -- were you living a wealthy lifestyle?
MR. GRIFFIN: Objection to the statement, Your Honor.
MR. WATERS: Were you living a wealthy lifestyle?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I just don't know what you mean by wealthy, you know?
MR. WATERS: Is this is hard question, Mr. Murdaugh?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Well, it, it -- it's hard for me to know exactly what you want, you know, and, and it depends. I was spending money that I -- that, that wasn't mine that I shouldn't have. I think that, you know, we lived a lifestyle. I don't, I don't have a issue if you want to call it wealthy.
MR. WATERS: Would you concede with me that not all of this money was going to pills at this point?
MR. WATERS: All this stolen money?
ALEX MURDAUGH: No. I doubt that it was.
MR. WATERS: And it was being used to support your wealthy lifestyle.
ALEX MURDAUGH: Well, I haven't looked at all these documents to know exactly what was being spent where, but here's what I do know. I know that I was making a bunch of money and I should have had, I should have had more money than I did, and I know that I was spending a bunch of money on pills, and I know that -- you know, I just -- I don't remember in 2011 if those -- I just can't remember those land deals. But, you know, if, if I spent money on other things, I don't dispute that either. I just haven't looked at the records.
MR. WATERS: But you would at least concede that the money you were stealing was going to support your ever-expanding wealthy lifestyle. Would you concede that?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Did all of the money I stole?
MR. WATERS: Any of it, Mr. Murdaugh.
ALEX MURDAUGH: Any of it? Yeah, I would certainly agree that there was money that, that didn't go to buy just pills.
MR. WATERS: All right, and you would concede that even though you were generating millions of dollars in fees, that was not enough for you. Would you concede that?
ALEX MURDAUGH: If, if by concede that, you mean was I also stealing money that I shouldn't have? Yes, sir, I agree with that. I've said that repeatedly.
MR. WATERS: Who were the Plylers?
ALEX MURDAUGH: They were two young girls from Columbia.
MR. WATERS: They were underage when they became your clients?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Yes, sir.
MR. WATERS: Did they suffer a loss in their family as a result of an accident?
ALEX MURDAUGH: They did.
MR. WATERS: Who, who -- what loss had they suffered? Who died?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Their mother. Their mother did.
MR. WATERS: When -- did you get a sizable recovery in the case, in that particular case related to them?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Yes, sir.
MR. WATERS: Do you remember how much that recovery was?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I don't.
MR. WATERS: Got any idea?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I know it was a significant settlement; I know it was a very good settlement.
MR. WATERS: Millions of dollars?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Oh yeah, it was millions of dollars, but whether it was, you know, 2 million -- I know it was significant. I don't know if it was eight figures, but I know it was a significant settlement.
MR. WATERS: Was there a conservatorship for them because they were underage?
ALEX MURDAUGH: There was a conservatorship for them, but I don't think the fact that they were underage is why there was a conservatorship.
MR. WATERS: You don't think it was because, at least in part, they were underage when the settlement was received?
ALEX MURDAUGH: No, that's not what I, that's not what I remember, but --
MR. WATERS: What do you remember?
ALEX MURDAUGH: -- for purposes of, of your thing, Mr. Waters, I agree there was a conservative appointed.
MR. WATERS: Well, what is your memory about why that conservator was appointed?
ALEX MURDAUGH: My memory is, is that the father in this case, who was the beneficiary or, or a big beneficiary in this and who was the PR of the mother's case, was an undesirable witness. And there was testimony that he had -- it was testimony that he had hit his wife. And it was clear we felt like we didn't, we didn't want him to be the face of the lawsuit. So, we appointed a conservator --
MR. WATERS: Who was that?
ALEX MURDAUGH: -- for that purpose is why I believe we appointed a conservator.
MR. WATERS: Okay, and who was that?
ALEX MURDAUGH: That was Russell Laffitte.
MR. WATERS: At Palmetto State Bank?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Yes, sir.
MR. WATERS: And after that, did you get Russell Laffitte to start loaning you money from the Plyler girls' account that he was conservative for?
ALEX MURDAUGH: He loaned me money from the Plyler account. I don't know if I got him to do that.
MR. WATERS: Oh. You didn't talk to him about it? Y'all didn't talk about that at all?
ALEX MURDAUGH: No, we did talk about it.
MR. WATERS: I mean, there's emails to that effect. Are you disputing that to this jury?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Mr. Waters, I'm not disputing. I'm just telling you that Russell Laffitte gave me a loan from the Plylers. Your question was did I get him to do that, and I don't necessarily believe that to be accurate.
MR. WATERS: Who came up with the idea?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I don't know that it was come up with, an idea. There was -- I think that Russell felt like that it was a sound investment for those girls to charge me a higher interest rate when they weren't getting but so much interest somewhere else, so.
MR. WATERS: What was that interest rate that y'all thought was such a good idea for these girls? Do you recall what it was?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I can't remember.
MR. WATERS: The reality is, is that you needed the money, and this was a convenient source to keep your massive cash flow going as early as 2011, 2012. Isn't that correct?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Well, this was a loan, yes, sir, but exactly why it came from them versus the bank, I can't -- I, I don't -- I can't tell you the details without looking at all that. I can't tell you that off the top of my head.
MR. WATERS: And despite all you were earning, you would even send Russell emails saying, hey, transfer over 75,000 from the Plyler account into my account, correct? Do you remember emails to that effect that you would have to him?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Do I remember an email to that effect? No, I don't remember that, but I --
MR. WATERS: Do you dispute that there were emails to that effect?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Not if you say there were, Mr. Waters. I, I don't dispute that. I, I don't dispute any of this, that I took money that didn't belong to me, that I misled people that were --
MR. WATERS: I know that you want the answer to be that simple. That's not what I'm -- we agree on that. We've agreed on that.
ALEX MURDAUGH: Well, no, sir. I, I don't necessarily want the answer to be simple. I just want everybody to understand I do not dispute that I stole money that was not my money, that I misled people to do that, that I misled people that trusted me to do that, and that what I did was terrible. I don't dispute that. It's just the way you're asking these questions. And, you know, I mean, there's some things in there that I do take issue with.
MR. WATERS: Okay. Which part of what I just asked you about the Plylers do you take issue with? You take issue that y'all didn't conspire to do that, you and Russell?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Yes.
MR. WATERS: You take issue with that? Okay.
ALEX MURDAUGH: I can tell you that Russell Laffitte, Russell Laffitte never conspired with me to do anything. Whatever it was done was done by me.
MR. WATERS: Okay, so you told the Plyler girls that you were borrowing money from their account?
ALEX MURDAUGH: No, I don't know. I don't, I don't know that I, I told them that.
MR. WATERS: Did you tell Russell to tell them?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I, I don't, I don't recall. I, I, I don't believe so, but I don't -- I can't sit here and tell you what I told him however many years ago.
MR. WATERS: Did you tell Russell he could borrow money from that account, too?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I, I don't remember having any discussion with him about him borrowing money.
MR. WATERS: Was the supposed interest rate you were paying far lower than anything you could have gotten anywhere else?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I don't even know what interest rate I was paying.
MR. WATERS: You don't even know?
ALEX MURDAUGH: But I --
MR. WATERS: One thing is clear. You never told this to the Plyler girls, did you?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I would have thought the interest rate that I was paying was a little bit more than what a bank loan would have been, but I don't know that. I don't know that to be -- I don't know what the interest rate was, so I, I don't know that for sure.
MR. WATERS: When you stole the Badger money, how much did you steal from Arthur Badger that we talked about before in the UPS case?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I don't remember the exact amount.
MR. WATERS: Over $1.3 million. Would you dispute that?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I don't dispute; I don't dispute that.
MR. WATERS: And that was in addition to the $1.2 million in attorney's fees for his case alone that would have been attributed to you through the firm?
ALEX MURDAUGH: What I stole from Arthur Badger --
MR. WATERS: Let me ask you this.
ALEX MURDAUGH: -- inappropriately was in addition to any fees that I legitimately earned. I shouldn't have stolen the money from Arthur Badger. I misled him and I was wrong.
MR. WATERS: Did you speak with Russell Laffitte once you stole this money from Arthur Badger about structuring that $1.3 million that you stole in a manner so it appeared to be payments to the Plyler account? You understand the question?
ALEX MURDAUGH: No, sir. Say that again.
MR. WATERS: Did you have any conversations with Russell Laffitte about structuring this $1.3 million into multiple payments and then applying it to the Plyler account?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I've, I've heard the testimony and I've seen some of those records.
MR. WATERS: I'm asking if you did. Did you have any conversations with Russell about that?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I, I had to.
MR. WATERS: Okay.
ALEX MURDAUGH: I had to have.
MR. WATERS: All right. You even asked him to recut the check, correct? To have Jeannie recut the check.
ALEX MURDAUGH: I, I've seen, I've seen, I believe, an email or a text to that effect.
MR. WATERS: So, you don't dispute that?
ALEX MURDAUGH: No, I don't dispute that. What I dispute is if, if you're insinuating in any way -- this was stuff that I did.
MR. WATERS: Okay.
ALEX MURDAUGH: I mean, this stuff that -- I, I did these things wrong. Russell Laffitte didn't do anything.
MR. WATERS: I'm not here --
ALEX MURDAUGH: And, and what --
MR. WATERS: -- to talk about that. I'm just talking about what went on.
ALEX MURDAUGH: And I, I know, but you keep talking about what I did with Russell Laffitte. And what I want to let you know is that I did this.
MR. WATERS: I know.
ALEX MURDAUGH: And I'm the one that took people's money that I shouldn't have taken, and that Russell Laffitte was not involved in helping me do that.
MR. WATERS: I just asked you a simple question.
ALEX MURDAUGH: Knowingly. If he did it, he did it without knowing it.
MR. WATERS: All right. So, you sent him an email and then asked him to recut the check and have the check made out to various amounts short of that, and then applied those over time to give the illusion of payments to the Plyler account. Is that correct?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Mr. Waters.
MR. WATERS: Is that correct?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I don't know, but I'll tell you this.
MR. WATERS: You don't know.
ALEX MURDAUGH: I don't dispute, I don't dispute what's in those emails as far as -- or texts as far as what I told Russell and as far as what I did to, to, again, take money that didn't belong to me, that wasn't mine, and that I was wrong for taking. It's just the specifics of that you want me to give you details on, and I can't do that. I do not dispute what's in those texts or emails.
MR. WATERS: And did you steal that Badger money because you had to pay back the Plyler girls' money before they turned eighteen and reached the age of majority, and Russell would then have to be held to account for that money that he had loaned to himself and to you?
ALEX MURDAUGH: First off, I don't know anything about any money that Russell loaned to himself. I only know about what he loaned to me and I don't specifically -- I don't believe that me stealing Arthur Badger's money and taking that money that did not belong to me, that I wrongly took, had anything to do -- I don't remember it having a relationship with having to pay back a loan or to be in some time pressure to pay back a loan that he gave me on the Plyler conservatorship.
MR. WATERS: You don't remember that?
ALEX MURDAUGH: No, and I'm not saying that that didn't happen. I'm saying that I don't remember. That's not the way I remember it, and I don't remember it.
MR. WATERS: Did you ultimately borrow a million roughly from the Plyler girls without their knowledge?
ALEX MURDAUGH: A million?
MR. WATERS: Does that sound right, about $1 million in total?
ALEX MURDAUGH: If, if you tell me that's the number, I mean, that surprises me, but I don't dispute what's in the records, but I didn't believe I had a loan for -- you saying $1 million? I didn't believe that I had a loan --
MR. WATERS: In total.
ALEX MURDAUGH: Mr. Waters, if that's what the records say, I don't dispute it, but that's not what I thought. I didn't think I had a $1 million loan from them. But if that's what the records say, I don't dispute that. But I can tell you this. If I had $1 million loan from them, I don't remember that, and I may have -- I may be confusing it with what -- a loan from the bank. But again, if that's what's in the records, I don't dispute it.
MR. WATERS: All right. So, you have no memory whatsoever, and so for all you know, it's just a coincidence that the Plylers were about to turn eighteen when you stole this Badger money, and you applied a significant amount of it to pay that off before they turned eighteen. You don't have any memory of that?
ALEX MURDAUGH: No. I can tell you that that was never -- that that was never an issue or motivation for me. Again, taking Arthur Badger's money that I shouldn't have taken.
MR. WATERS: It just happened?
ALEX MURDAUGH: It didn't belong to me and that I was wrong for. I, I don't remember a loan from the Plyler conservatorship as being motivation for that.
MR. WATERS: So for all you can remember, it's just a coincidence?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Why I stole Arthur Badger's money just being a coincidence?
MR. WATERS: No. Why you applied it to the Plyler loan right before they turned eighteen.
ALEX MURDAUGH: No, I -- I'm, I'm not saying it's coincidence or not a coincidence. What I'm saying is I don't remember that, and so I don't remember that being a motivation. If it was, I just -- I, I didn't know I had a million dollar loan from the Plyler conservatorship, at least as I sit here today. But, you know, I would have known I had a loan from somewhere, and if I took Arthur Badger's money and applied it to that -- I mean, again, I stole money that didn't belong to me. I misled Arthur Badger to take that money, and I was wrong.
MR. WATERS: How many times did you practice that answer before your testimony today?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I've never.
MR. WATERS: You've given the same one over and over again.
ALEX MURDAUGH: I've never practiced that answer, but you keep asking me these questions, and I, I keep using that answer.
MR. WATERS: Let me show you what's been entered in evidence as State's 321. You recognize generally that document?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I do.
MR. WATERS: And what is that?
ALEX MURDAUGH: This is the disbursement sheet on the Deon Martin case.
MR. WATERS: What happened to Deon Martin?
ALEX MURDAUGH: He got in a wreck.
MR. WATERS: Did you know his family?
ALEX MURDAUGH: When he got in the wreck?
MR. WATERS: Prior to him getting in the wreck.
ALEX MURDAUGH: I, I knew who his family was prior to getting into wreck, but after he got in this wreck, I became very close with his family.
MR. WATERS: Became very close with this family, and Deon suffered some pretty severe injuries, correct?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Deon was hurt bad, yes.
MR. WATERS: Including, including an injury to his head.
ALEX MURDAUGH: You know, I heard you say that the other day. I don't specifically remember Deon having a head injury. I believe Deon had more orthopedic injuries, but he may have had some injury to his head.
MR. WATERS: You met with him on a number of occasions?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Yes, I met with him on a number of occasions.
MR. WATERS: Met with his parents on a number of occasions?
ALEX MURDAUGH: About Deon?
MR. WATERS: About the case, while the case was going on.
ALEX MURDAUGH: I don't know if I met with his parents about Deon's case, but I know I met with Deon and I may have met with his parents if, if they say that. I mean, his dad's --
MR. WATERS: You said you became --
ALEX MURDAUGH: -- one of the most honorable fellows that I know. If he says I met with him, I certainly believe that.
MR. WATERS: You said you became close with them, correct? You said close with the parents.
ALEX MURDAUGH: I, I consider Deon's -- yes, I consider -- I think the world of his dad and his mom and Deon.
MR. WATERS: What was the recovery that was obtained in Deon's case? I show it to you.
ALEX MURDAUGH: Let's see, it looks like recovery 2, $2 million. Actually, this is -- let's see. I know it was $2 million, but I believe the recovery was less than $2 million; I believe the recovery was less than $2 million. I believe that I said it was $2 million. I can't remember exactly what the recovery is, but I know it was less than $2 million, and I know that I misstated it as $2 million.
MR. WATERS: So, you falsified the paperwork, correct?
ALEX MURDAUGH: It, it, it appears that I put inaccurate information on the paperwork, yes, sir.
MR. WATERS: You put inaccurate information. You falsified it, right?
ALEX MURDAUGH: If you like that word, yes, sir.
MR. WATERS: All right, that's right there where you put that $500,000 in there, correct?
MR. WATERS: I'm sorry. May I have the ELMO?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I'm sorry, Mr. Waters, what? What was the question?
MR. WATERS: Let's get the ELMO up and I'll show you. Right there, that's the $500,000 that you falsified this document with, is that correct, where it says structured annuity directly to Michael Gunn?
ALEX MURDAUGH: That looks like one place that I -- yes.
MR. WATERS: Why did you do that?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Why did I?
MR. WATERS: Yeah, why did --
ALEX MURDAUGH: Why did I?
MR. WATERS: -- you -- that $500,000, what was your purpose in doing that?
ALEX MURDAUGH: It appears that I was stealing his money, $500,000.
MR. WATERS: Do you deny you inflated your fees with that one?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I mean, I --
MR. WATERS: You don't remember?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I know that I inflated the fees like I just talked about, but I believe what -- go back to that top of that thing. I believe what I must have done with the structured annuity is I had that $500,000 check, and I must have had that made to -- I must have had that made to Forge, as you've heard, to steal that money from Deon Martin.
MR. WATERS: All right, down at the bottom.
ALEX MURDAUGH: That I shouldn't have.
MR. WATERS: Is that your signature down there?
ALEX MURDAUGH: It is.
MR. WATERS: Is that Deon Martin's signature on the other side? Do you dispute that?
ALEX MURDAUGH: No, I don't dispute that.
MR. WATERS: So, you would have sat down with Deon Martin and gone over this document with him and convinced him that there was nothing amiss here?
ALEX MURDAUGH: You know, again, I don't know if I went over the document with him or not, but I certainly misled Deon Martin. I certainly lied to Deon Martin. I certainly took money from Deon Martin that did not belong to me, and I shouldn't have done it.
MR. WATERS: You don't specifically remember talking to Deon. There is nothing in you that causes you to remember talking with Deon, sitting there with this document in front of him as you looked him in the eye, knowing that you were lying to him the whole time? You don't even remember that? Nothing in you causes you to remember that?
ALEX MURDAUGH: To specifically remember? I'm not sure that I did sit down with Deon Martin, but I certainly, Mr. Waters, I misled Deon Martin. I lied to Deon Martin; I took Deon Martin's money when I shouldn't have.
MR. WATERS: Well, let me ask you this. Of all the people on here, all these exhibits, do you have independent recollection of a time when you sat down and looked that person in the eye and you were lying to them and, and convincing them that everything was okay while you stole their money? Do you remember even one of them?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I'm sure I do.
MR. WATERS: Okay. Tell us about one.
ALEX MURDAUGH: I mean, you have to show me. You have to give me --
MR. WATERS: I'm asking you if you remember one time where you're sitting there in your heart looking somebody in the eye, knowing you're stealing from them, and you remember it.
ALEX MURDAUGH: I remember stealing from people. I remember lying to people, and I remember misleading people. For me to tell you that I sat down with each one of these people.
MR. WATERS: I'm asking you to tell me about just one conversation, one time where you recall looking somebody in the eye and convincing them with your lies that nothing was amiss, one conversation.
ALEX MURDAUGH: There were plenty of conversations where I looked people in the eye and I lied to them. There were plenty of times where I took money that I shouldn't have taken. There were plenty of times where I stole money. For me to sit and tell you a specific time that I sat down with a specific document and what exactly was said, if you ask me questions -- but I, I can't, I can't remember sitting down with Deon on a --
MR. WATERS: They certainly remember it, don't they, Mr. Murdaugh?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I don't know if they do or not, but I would assume so.
MR. WATERS: But you can't tell us one time where it just sticks out in your memory where you're, like, I'm pulling a fast one right now.
ALEX MURDAUGH: Oh, no.
MR. WATERS: Or anything, whatever reaction you had.
ALEX MURDAUGH: Oh, no.
MR. WATERS: Do you even remember a single one?
ALEX MURDAUGH: No, sir, that's not correct. I can remember a lot of times where I lied to my clients, I misled my clients, and I stole money from my clients in conversations. But for me to sit and tell you that I had a conversation about this particular document, I don't dispute it.
MR. WATERS: I know you don't dispute it, Mr. Murdaugh. You've said that 100 times, haven't you, but you can't recall for this jury one of these people, looking them in the eye while you lied to them. You can't recall a single one. I've asked you this three times now.
ALEX MURDAUGH: Oh, I promise you.
MR. WATERS: Asked and answered.
MR. GRIFFIN: Objection, Your Honor. Asked and answered three times.
ALEX MURDAUGH: Well, here. Here.
MR. WATERS: I already said that.
ALEX MURDAUGH: Here. Here you go, Mr. Waters.
MR. WATERS: I mean, the point's made, isn't it, Mr. Murdaugh?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I, I don't know if your point's made or not, but here. Here's, here's --
MR. WATERS: You don't know that either, do you?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Here's what -- I will say it again. I remember lying to clients of mine. I did it on more than one occasion. I took their money when I shouldn't have taken it. I'm sure that I looked them in the eye. I'm sure that I misled them. But I can't tell you exactly when those occurred twelve years ago is the only point. I don't dispute that they occurred; I don't dispute that everything about what I did was wrong.
MR. WATERS: Okay.
ALEX MURDAUGH: But I can't sit and tell you the specific details that you're wanting me to give you.
MR. WATERS: We could just write that answer down on a sheet of paper and you could hold it up each time you want to say that, couldn't you?
ALEX MURDAUGH: If --
MR. GRIFFIN: Objection, Your Honor.
JUDGE NEWMAN: Objection is overruled.
ALEX MURDAUGH: If that's what you want to do, Mr. Waters, but I'm, I'm trying to answer your question.
MR. WATERS: These were real people you were dealing with, right?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Absolutely they were. You know what?
MR. WATERS: I know you want to give that answer, but these were real people, weren't they?
ALEX MURDAUGH: No, they're very real people. And, you know what one of the saddest parts of this whole thing is, is, you know, there are people that I still care about and I did them this way. You know, that's what I was meaning in that text that you made the issue about to Annette Griswold. And, and it was a lot talking about my partners, but it was a lot talking about these people. I mean, I know the people that I did wrong and that I hurt and that I stole from. I mean, they are people that I think a lot of, and --
MR. WATERS: And they didn't know --
ALEX MURDAUGH: Hang on. Hang on. I want to say one more thing.
MR. WATERS: Go ahead.
ALEX MURDAUGH: And there's no question that the actions that I did, the things that I did wrong hurt a lot of the people that I care about the most. And I did a lot of damage and I wreaked a lot of havoc that I'm --
MR. WATERS: Did a lot of damage and wreaked a lot of havoc. I hear you.
ALEX MURDAUGH: There's no question about it.
MR. WATERS: Let me show you what's been marked State's 315 and see if you recognize this.
ALEX MURDAUGH: I do.
MR. WATERS: Which case is this?
ALEX MURDAUGH: This is Elease Mallory.
MR. WATERS: And what happened in this case?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I stole her money.
MR. WATERS: What happened, though, with the underlying case? Can you tell the jury that? Do you remember that?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I believe it was Ms. Taylor, Ms. Mallory's -- I believe it was her daughter. It might have been her granddaughter, but I believe it was her daughter was in a wreck.
MR. WATERS: Did she die?
ALEX MURDAUGH: And she got killed.
MR. WATERS: And Ms. Mallory came to you for help?
ALEX MURDAUGH: She did.
MR. WATERS: Do you remember that one at all?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I do.
MR. WATERS: Okay. Well, you remember one now.
ALEX MURDAUGH: Oh, no, Mr. Waters, I remember all of these people.
MR. WATERS: Okay.
ALEX MURDAUGH: It's not that I don't remember them.
MR. WATERS: Uh-huh.
ALEX MURDAUGH: You're just asking me details about conversations.
MR. WATERS: Okay. Correct.
ALEX MURDAUGH: I can promise you I remember all of these people that I did wrong.
MR. WATERS: Right, and you stole all of the money, didn't you, okay?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I, I, I stole --
MR. WATERS: All of it.
ALEX MURDAUGH: -- all of the -- most -- most of the money that I've been accused of stealing, I stole.
MR. WATERS: No. I mean you stole every single dime of the recovery. She didn't get one dime. Isn't that right?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I have to look at the records, but if that's --
MR. WATERS: You credited yourself with legal fees and then you stole all the rest of the money, correct?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I, I don't dispute that.
MR. WATERS: All right.
ALEX MURDAUGH: If you let me see it.
MR. WATERS: Tell me about -- first of all, tell me about Ms. Mallory. So, she lost her daughter, correct? Is that correct?
ALEX MURDAUGH: That is correct.
MR. WATERS: And she came to you for help.
ALEX MURDAUGH: It was her daughter.
MR. WATERS: Isn't that correct?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Her granddaughter, but...
MR. WATERS: All right.
ALEX MURDAUGH: One.
MR. WATERS: All right. She came to you for help, correct?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Yes, sir, I agree with you on that.
MR. WATERS: Very, very sweet lady, correct?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Very sweet lady.
MR. WATERS: All right. Tell me about your conversation when you looked her in the eye and lied to her while you were stealing every dime of the money.
ALEX MURDAUGH: That's -- this is a perfect example, Mr. Waters. I stole her money. I did her wrong. But I don't even believe that Elease Mallory was there when I stole that money. I don't -- if you look at that disbursement sheet, there's -- I, I don't even believe I ever showed that to her.
MR. WATERS: You don't remember having any conversations with her when you lied with her about this case while you're stealing all her money?
ALEX MURDAUGH: I don't think I did in this case. I don't think I had any meetings with her. I think I stole her money, and I don't believe that I had a meeting with her.
MR. WATERS: So again, you can't tell us one conversation you had with any of these people when you looked them in the eye and convinced them that you were doing them right, that you were telling the truth.
ALEX MURDAUGH: That's not true, Mr. Waters.
MR. GRIFFIN: Objection to --
ALEX MURDAUGH: I remember a --
MR. GRIFFIN: -- asked and answered.
ALEX MURDAUGH: -- lot of those conversations. I remember a lot of them.
MR. WATERS: Okay. All right. You just testified you remember a lot of them. I've been asking you now for the past 10 minutes to tell me about one of them where it's stuck in your heart.
ALEX MURDAUGH: There are a lot --
MR. WATERS: Stuck in your brain.
ALEX MURDAUGH: There are a lot of conversations I had where I misled my clients and I stole their money where they trusted me, and I remember them.
MR. WATERS: Okay.
ALEX MURDAUGH: But you keep --
MR. WATERS: So again, can you tell me one? Tell me how it went down, what you said, how you convinced them, how you looked them in the eye, how you made them believe, how you used your skills as a trial lawyer to convince them? Can you just tell me about one of those? What was going through your head when you did it?
MR. GRIFFIN: Your Honor, objection under Rule 403. We've been going over and over and over this.
JUDGE NEWMAN: Objection is overruled.
ALEX MURDAUGH: All right, what's your question, Mr. Waters?
MR. WATERS: Can you tell me about one of the conversations that you had with all of these people, just one --
ALEX MURDAUGH: I can tell you --
MR. WATERS: -- where you -- what --
ALEX MURDAUGH: Excuse me.
MR. WATERS: -- was going through your head and how it went down when you sat there and looked them in the eye and convinced them that you were doing them right while you were lying to them and stealing their money?
ALEX MURDAUGH: Yes, sir. I had a lot of conversations with a lot of my clients that I cared about. And so I will tell you that I had conversations with them where I misled them and I lied to them and I took their money, and that was a number of times, but you're asking me --
MR. WATERS: Just one specific one, Mr. Murdaugh.
ALEX MURDAUGH: Every single, every single one of these clients I would have had conversations with at some point.
MR. WATERS: It's fine. It's fine.
ALEX MURDAUGH: But this particular -- like, Mr. Waters, that disbursement sheet I didn't have -- there was never a sit down with Ms. Mallory about the -- disbursing the money.
MR. WATERS: You don't recall talking to her about the status of her case and telling her lies and convincing her that you were on her side? You don't remember that?
ALEX MURDAUGH: No, I definitely remember that, but that's not what you asked me.
MR. WATERS: Tell me about it.
ALEX MURDAUGH: I had numerous conversations with Ms. Mallory, you know, about this case. But the fact is, is you were asking me about me sitting down with this disbursement sheet, looking her in the eye and convincing her, and, and I'm telling you that that didn't happen in this case. Now, I had a lot of conversations with her where I misled her, Mr. Waters, where I lied to her.
MR. WATERS: Tell me about one.
ALEX MURDAUGH: About --
MR. WATERS: Tell me how it went down.
ALEX MURDAUGH: Where --
JUDGE NEWMAN: Just a moment. We're going to recess for the day and resume at 9:30 tomorrow morning. Everyone remain seated while the jury leaves. Please do not discuss the case. We will see you all 9:30 tomorrow morning.
(The jury left the courtroom.)
JUDGE NEWMAN: Anything before we adjourn for the day?
MR. WATERS: Nothing from the State, Your Honor.
MR. HARPOOTLIAN: Yes, sir. Your Honor, we have two experts we brought in. Basically one of them last night and the other came in today from out of state. There is a not complicated one, a pathologist. That testimony would take 30 to 45 minutes on direct and I don't believe it's going to be more on cross. The other one is a crime scene analyst who's testifying not about the whole crime scene. Specially based on the pathologist's testimony about what happened in the feed room. In total, they should not take more than 2 and a half hours. I wonder, since this apparently could go on for a while, if we might put them up tomorrow either first thing in the morning or at the morning break. Mr. Waters and I would be able to get them out of here because I believe his cross is probably going into Monday anyway at the rate we're going.
JUDGE NEWMAN: All right.
MR. HARPOOTLIAN: These are accommodations that are not controversial. They are not going to opine on who killed who, when, and how. Just the mechanics of what happened.
JUDGE NEWMAN: What says the State?
MR. WATERS: Your Honor, I think the defense would have to concede I've been very accommodating, accommodating as I can throughout this, but I do not want to interrupt my cross. They, they took a very long time today, and the State's entitled to the same consideration without interruption.
JUDGE NEWMAN: Can you project how many more hours you have?
MR. WATERS: Well, I actually didn't think it would take this long to get this far, but I think I've got some more financials to move through and then we'll get to the other evidence.
JUDGE NEWMAN: 2 hours, 4 hours, 6 hours?
MR. WATERS: I'm so bad at that, Your Honor. 3, 4, something like that. And that's at the outside.
JUDGE NEWMAN: Perhaps tomorrow afternoon we could --
MR. HARPOOTLIAN: Your Honor.
JUDGE NEWMAN: -- get to 1 or 2.
MR. HARPOOTLIAN: Again, we could probably do this fairly quickly. If Your Honor would leave that door open, I'm going to keep him here. If I have to keep them here over the weekend, the financial impact of that is huge.
JUDGE NEWMAN: I understand the dilemma, but I'm not going to require the State to break up the cross-examination of this witness.
MR. HARPOOTLIAN: Well, and again, as I sit here and listen to this, I could have sworn this was a murder case. For 2 hours now, we haven't heard the word murder once, and I'm not criticizing the strategy. Obviously denigrating his character is what this is about, but it's not relevant to the issues.
JUDGE NEWMAN: And credibility is an issue as relates to all witnesses in every case. But we'll adjourn until 9:30 tomorrow morning.
(Whereupon, the case was at ease.)