Jeff Croft — Cross/Redirect/Recross
882 linesTUESDAY, JANUARY 31, 2023
(Court resumed at 9:30 a.m.)
JUDGE NEWMAN: Good morning. Ready for the jury?
MR. HARPOOTLIAN: Judge, we want to just say something here. We want to thank the Clerk of Court for her assistance. Every time we need something, she has been there for us. The Colleton County Sheriff's Department has provided security and has given us total access to our client. We feel like we've been treated extraordinarily well by all court personnel, and I want to put on the record since there seems to be a media interest here. I've tried many cases in many jurisdiction, and I have never been treated at this level of courtesy and understanding. Thank you.
MR. WATERS: Absolutely echo that. Everybody has been great, absolutely.
JUDGE NEWMAN: I echo that as well. Very good. Bring the jury in.
(The jury returned to the courtroom.)
COURT BAILIFF: The jury is present, sir.
JUDGE NEWMAN: Good morning.
(Jurors responded good morning.)
JUDGE NEWMAN: Day number seven, State's case. We'll have our witness back. I remind you you're still under oath.
JEFF CROFT: Yes, sir.
JUDGE NEWMAN: Cross-examination.
MR. GRIFFIN: Thank you, Your Honor.
The witness, JEFF CROFT, remained under oath and testified as follows:
CROSS-EXAMINATION
BY MR. GRIFFIN:
MR. GRIFFIN: Good morning, Agent Croft.
JEFF CROFT: Good morning, sir.
MR. GRIFFIN: On June 8th, I understood that was your first involvement in this case. Is that correct?
JEFF CROFT: Yes, sir, that is correct.
MR. GRIFFIN: And you went to Moselle on the morning of the June 8th?
JEFF CROFT: I was en route to Moselle, got rerouted to the office, and then went and conducted an interview, then back to Moselle.
MR. GRIFFIN: That's right. You interviewed Rogan Gibson and then went to Moselle.
JEFF CROFT: That is correct.
MR. GRIFFIN: And what time did you get to Moselle?
JEFF CROFT: It was around lunchtime when I got there.
MR. GRIFFIN: And as I understood from your testimony that your role primarily is because -- in this case is that because you know a lot about guns and ammunition, did I understand that correctly?
JEFF CROFT: That was not my sole role. I was at the search of residence because of my familiarity with firearms.
MR. GRIFFIN: Yes, sir, and you went and searched the residence with other agents, and we saw those agents, some of them, on the body cam video that played yesterday.
JEFF CROFT: Yes, sir. I was in the gun room.
MR. GRIFFIN: And this search was a consent search, correct?
JEFF CROFT: That's correct, yes, sir.
MR. GRIFFIN: You weren't there to execute a search warrant, right?
JEFF CROFT: No, sir, I was not.
MR. GRIFFIN: And were you aware, though, that there was a search warrant that had been obtained the night before?
JEFF CROFT: I was aware of the consent, the search at the incident location. It's common practice that they get a search warrant for -- to process the scene.
MR. GRIFFIN: Yes, sir. Were there any limitations that you were aware of on the scope of the consent to search?
JEFF CROFT: No, sir.
MR. GRIFFIN: And so as far as you knew and understand -- understood then and understand today, you or other agents at SLED could have searched that house from top to bottom on the 8th. Is that correct?
JEFF CROFT: Other agents went through the residence with family members.
MR. GRIFFIN: And there were no limitations on what the other agents could have looked for, right?
JEFF CROFT: Again, I can't say what limitations was placed on them as they walked through the house. I was in the gun room.
MR. GRIFFIN: Okay. Well, to your knowledge, did anyone look for bloody clothes or dirty clothes in the house while you were there on the 8th?
JEFF CROFT: I was in the gun room and I was collecting guns and ammunition, sir.
MR. GRIFFIN: Now, you mentioned that you had been provided some information about the type of ammunition that was used down at the crime scene where Maggie and Paul were murdered. Is that correct?
JEFF CROFT: That is correct.
MR. GRIFFIN: And one ammunition was a 300 Blackout shell casing. Were you aware of that?
JEFF CROFT: Yes, sir, I was.
MR. GRIFFIN: And who relayed the information to you as a type of ammo that was used for the murder of Maggie and Paul?
JEFF CROFT: It came from the investigative team. I don't recall exactly who called me or who told me the information, but I was relayed the information through our investigative team that was at the scene.
MR. GRIFFIN: All right. So, you were informed that, you know, look out, see what you can find in the gun room related to a 300 Blackout. Is that correct?
JEFF CROFT: It wasn't limited to specifically 300 Blackout. It was -- that was a round of interest.
MR. GRIFFIN: Okay, and then the other round of interest was 12 gauge, correct?
JEFF CROFT: That is correct.
MR. GRIFFIN: And were you given any information as to what specific type of 12 gauge ammunition was used at the crime scene?
JEFF CROFT: I knew we had a 12 gauge what was believed to be turkey load, or BB load, and then a buckshot.
MR. GRIFFIN: Okay, and let me talk to you a little bit about the 300 Blackout ammunition. You testified yesterday that the grains -- the weight of the ammunition found at the house was 147 grains. Is that right?
JEFF CROFT: That is correct. That's what is on the empty box, which I located and --
MR. GRIFFIN: Is this the empty box, State's Exhibit 213, that you're referring to?
JEFF CROFT: That is correct.
MR. GRIFFIN: And this -- I recall this pack of ammo on this exhibit says it has a label of Woodies Pawn and Jewelry and $11.99. You couldn't buy this ammunition in July or June of 2021 for $11.99, could you?
JEFF CROFT: I don't know what the ammunition cost.
MR. GRIFFIN: Well, you know it was a lot more than $11.99?
JEFF CROFT: I don't know the price of ammunition at that time.
MR. GRIFFIN: All right, and are you familiar -- there's basically two types of ammunition for the 300 Blackout. There's the supersonic and subsonic.
JEFF CROFT: I am, sir.
MR. GRIFFIN: And the subsonic is the heavier of the two, correct?
JEFF CROFT: That is correct.
MR. GRIFFIN: And that would be a 220 grain.
JEFF CROFT: Thereabouts, yes, sir.
MR. GRIFFIN: Yes, sir, and the most popular ammunition for hunting is the supersonic, the 147 grain ammunition. Are you aware of that?
JEFF CROFT: I can't say the most popular would be, but I am aware that 147 grain is used for hunting.
MR. GRIFFIN: And you're aware that 300 Blackout has -- it's not a rare gun in the area of Hampton and Colleton County, is it?
JEFF CROFT: It's not as common as the general 223 or the AR15, 308, different caliber rifles. It's not as common.
MR. GRIFFIN: But there are plenty out there, correct?
JEFF CROFT: I can't testify as to how many is out there, sir.
MR. GRIFFIN: I understand, but it's not the first time you'd seen a 300 Blackout on June 8th of 2021, was it?
JEFF CROFT: I had seen one before, yes, sir.
MR. GRIFFIN: All right, and then the 12 gauge, you didn't know what type -- you weren't given any type of 12 gauge you're looking for, you just -- from the information from the crime scene, right?
JEFF CROFT: The type of weapon I was looking for? No, sir.
MR. GRIFFIN: Yes, sir.
JEFF CROFT: No, sir.
MR. GRIFFIN: And then were you given information as to the size of the 12 gauge shell, two and a half inch, three inch?
JEFF CROFT: It was -- I was given three inch Magnum was what I was given.
MR. GRIFFIN: And that was on the buckshot.
JEFF CROFT: I was given three inch Magnum of -- a shotgun capable of shooting a three inch Magnum.
MR. GRIFFIN: Now -- and we're going to get to some of these shotguns here in a minute, but that -- the Browning light doesn't even shoot a three inch shell, does it?
JEFF CROFT: It does not. Two and three quarters is what it shoots.
MR. GRIFFIN: Right, and yet you seized it?
JEFF CROFT: I secured it, yes, sir.
MR. GRIFFIN: And you brought it here in the courtroom and introduced it in this case.
JEFF CROFT: I did, sir.
MR. GRIFFIN: Yeah. A gun that couldn't even fire the bullet that killed Paul, right?
JEFF CROFT: It did not fire the rounds that was located at the scene.
MR. GRIFFIN: Right. In fact, none of the shotguns that you brought yesterday, according to the ballistic report, your lab analysis, fired the shots that killed Paul, correct?
JEFF CROFT: I do not have the lab report in front of me.
MR. GRIFFIN: Well, you certainly know that after June 8th, SLED was diving in ponds and waterways looking for the murder weapons. Isn't that correct?
JEFF CROFT: We were diving, looking for potential evidence from the scene.
MR. GRIFFIN: Have you ever found the murder weapons to your knowledge?
MR. WATERS: Objection, Your Honor. That's outside the scope of his knowledge.
JUDGE NEWMAN: Objection is overruled.
JEFF CROFT: Not that I'm aware of, sir.
MR. GRIFFIN: And are you familiar with what ballistics tests were done on Buster's 300 Blackout and whether that was excluded as a weapon used to kill his mother?
JEFF CROFT: Again, I am not. I don't have the report in front of me and I'm not able to testify to that, sir.
MR. GRIFFIN: And you brought these empty Turkey Load, Exhibit 214, I believe, brought these into evidence, these box of Turkey shells?
JEFF CROFT: That is the box that I collected, yes, sir.
MR. GRIFFIN: And these were empty?
JEFF CROFT: Yes, sir, they were.
MR. GRIFFIN: And these were found in the trash can?
JEFF CROFT: Yes, sir. They were found in a trash bag, yes, sir.
MR. GRIFFIN: Okay, and you -- let's see. Exhibit -- it's the other end that has the exhibit number -- Exhibit 90 is the Browning Auto Five Light 12 gauge, which we already talked about wouldn't even hold a three inch shell. But there was no shells, no ammo in the Browning weapon, which is Exhibit 90 you brought to court, right?
JEFF CROFT: There was no rounds in that weapon.
MR. GRIFFIN: When you seized it on the 8th, no rounds in it, right?
JEFF CROFT: That is correct, yes, sir.
MR. GRIFFIN: All right. The Mossberg Model Ulti-mag, which is Exhibit 89, you have a 12 gauge shot shell written on the outside. So, there was one shot shell in this, loaded in this gun, correct?
JEFF CROFT: That is correct, yes, sir.
MR. GRIFFIN: And do you remember if it was buckshot or birdshot?
JEFF CROFT: It was black. I don't remember what it was.
MR. GRIFFIN: Will you be able to look at it and tell us?
JEFF CROFT: Yes, sir.
MR. GRIFFIN: All right. I'm going to hand you Exhibit 89 and ask you if you can pull out the shot, the ammo in there, and tell this jury if that's birdshot or buckshot first.
JEFF CROFT: It's a Browning 12 gauge three and a half inch Magnum two and a quarter number seventy-nine.
MR. GRIFFIN: And that's for hunting turkeys, right?
JEFF CROFT: That's my understanding, yes, sir.
MR. GRIFFIN: All right. Thank you. You can put it back in there. So, in the Mossberg there's one birdshot. Now, the other, the Benelli Super Black Eagle 3, had two unfired shot shells according to your notes on the box, and it's Exhibit 91. Is that correct?
JEFF CROFT: Yes, sir.
MR. GRIFFIN: And do you recall whether any of these are birdshot, buckshot? Do you remember what they are?
JEFF CROFT: I would have to look at them again, sir.
MR. GRIFFIN: All right.
MR. GRIFFIN: That was Exhibit 91 for the record.
JEFF CROFT: There's a black round in here that's a three inch number four pellet. And then there's a seven two and a quarter ounce three and a half inch with an 89 millimeter.
MR. GRIFFIN: And then those are both turkey loads, right?
JEFF CROFT: It could be used for a turkey, yes, sir.
MR. GRIFFIN: Well, let's just be clear. Neither one of those are buckshot, correct?
JEFF CROFT: No, sir.
MR. GRIFFIN: Thank you, and again, these were ruled out as being -- having any involvement in the murder of Paul, right, Exhibit 91?
JEFF CROFT: I can't testify to any lab reports; I don't have the lab reports inside of the scope of what I did.
MR. GRIFFIN: Well, is it correct to say, Agent Croft, that you did not find any guns loaded in the gun room or anywhere at Moselle that had a birdshot and a buckshot loaded at the same time?
JEFF CROFT: The only weapons I recovered are the weapons that are there with the rounds that we have just looked at, yes, sir.
MR. GRIFFIN: And if you or another agent in your presence made a representation that we found in the gun room a gun with similar loads as that that we found at the crime scene, that would be an incorrect statement, wouldn't it?
JEFF CROFT: I don't think it would be incorrect to say that there was -- guns were loaded in a similar fashion using two different types of ammunition, two different loads.
MR. GRIFFIN: Well, there's no buckshot in any of the two guns that you found loaded, correct?
JEFF CROFT: Not when we collected them, no, sir.
MR. GRIFFIN: And the turkey loads, or the bird loads that we just looked at, those pellets in those are lead, are they not?
JEFF CROFT: I would have to look at the actual box that it came in, or the pellets that are in it. Some of them are steel. I'm not sure.
MR. GRIFFIN: So, do you know the difference between steel and lead?
JEFF CROFT: Do I know the difference?
MR. GRIFFIN: Yeah. What's the difference -- why would you have steel versus lead?
JEFF CROFT: A steel shot is used a lot in waterfowl hunting, that type of stuff. Lead shot is used for normal everyday rabbits, squirrel, dove.
MR. GRIFFIN: Well, we do have some boxes here. 214, can you tell us whether this is lead or steel?
JEFF CROFT: The Winchester 12 gauge shot lock lead is a turkey load number four. The Browning box, I do not see it indicated on the box what the ball is, or the pellets are.
MR. GRIFFIN: Well, let me ask you. Is there a turkey on the face of that box?
JEFF CROFT: There is a turkey on the face of the box, yes, sir.
MR. GRIFFIN: And is turkey a waterfowl bird or a land bird?
JEFF CROFT: Turkey is a land bird, sir, and the other box is a same with Federal. It's got a turkey on the front.
MR. GRIFFIN: All right. So, these three boxes look like they're turkey loads, right?
JEFF CROFT: That's what it appears.
MR. GRIFFIN: Okay. Did you find any waterfowl shell boxes at Moselle on June 8th?
JEFF CROFT: I did not collect any waterfowl shell boxes from Moselle.
MR. GRIFFIN: Did you collect any waterfowl unfired shotgun -- 12 gauge shotgun shells at Moselle on June the 8th?
JEFF CROFT: Not that I'm aware of, sir.
MR. GRIFFIN: Have you ever collected unfired shotgun shells for waterfowl at Moselle in part of this investigation?
JEFF CROFT: I do not recall collecting any waterfowl shot.
MR. GRIFFIN: Are you aware, sir, that the shot that blew Paul Murdaugh's head off was Winchester Drylok Steel waterfowl 12 gauge ammunition?
JEFF CROFT: I was aware that we were -- that the pellets were steel.
MR. GRIFFIN: Well, you can look at the outside of the spent shell casing and see that it's Winchester Drylok, correct?
JEFF CROFT: If I had the shell casings, yes, sir I could see it.
MR. GRIFFIN: Okay, and you know that to be a waterfowl duck load, correct?
JEFF CROFT: I know that it's primarily used for duck load, yes, sir.
MR. GRIFFIN: And you know that's what killed Paul Murdaugh.
JEFF CROFT: I do know that it was steel shot.
MR. GRIFFIN: And you didn't find any similar ammunition at Moselle on June the 8th or any time after that, correct?
JEFF CROFT: I did not, sir.
MR. GRIFFIN: Now, you were shown pictures of the gun room and a lot of -- and I think you testified there's some 25 guns and gun racks?
JEFF CROFT: It was roughly twenty to twenty-five guns.
MR. GRIFFIN: And this is 1700 acres of hunting land?
JEFF CROFT: Yes, sir.
MR. GRIFFIN: And, I mean, did it shock you to see that many guns? There were all hunting guns, were they not?
JEFF CROFT: It did not shock me to see that many hunting guns.
MR. GRIFFIN: And a lot of people in Hampton and Colleton, this part of the Lowcountry, they hunt with those types of guns. Isn't that correct?
JEFF CROFT: Yes, sir.
MR. GRIFFIN: And nothing -- you didn't find anything unusual about the number of guns they had in their house, right?
JEFF CROFT: I did not, sir.
MR. GRIFFIN: Thank you. Now, you mentioned that you know something about the ejection pattern of the 300 Blackout. Do you remember testifying about that?
JEFF CROFT: I remember testifying that it ejects to the right and slightly backwards.
MR. GRIFFIN: And I'm going to let you take it out because I'm a city boy.
JEFF CROFT: May I stand?
MR. GRIFFIN: Yes, sir, please.
MR. GRIFFIN: Do you mind, Your Honor?
JUDGE NEWMAN: No.
MR. GRIFFIN: So, if you could -- while you're standing, if you could just step down and point the gun at that door, and hopefully no one comes through, and show the jury the direction that the shells would go.
JEFF CROFT: Can I point it up further than the door?
MR. GRIFFIN: Well, that would great. That would probably be safer. I told you I'm a city boy.
JEFF CROFT: The rounds would be ejected from this side across my -- would be my right shoulder.
MR. GRIFFIN: Okay, and so -- and it's a semiautomatic. I mean, you have to pull the trigger each time. Is that right?
JEFF CROFT: That is correct, sir.
MR. GRIFFIN: And every time you pull the trigger it shoots a shell, ejects off toward your right shoulder toward the rear, right?
JEFF CROFT: As long as there's ammunition in the magazine.
MR. GRIFFIN: Okay, and how far does it go before it lands, roughly?
JEFF CROFT: I can't answer that, sir.
MR. GRIFFIN: A foot, 2 feet, 3 feet?
JEFF CROFT: I can't testify to how far an ejection -- an ejection shell is going to extend from the weapon.
MR. GRIFFIN: Okay. That's fine. Will you put it back, please?
JEFF CROFT: Yes, sir.
MR. GRIFFIN: Well, just while you have it up, will you point to the jury -- I think they saw it before and let's just clear -- the thermal scope? Can you point that out?
JEFF CROFT: It would be this item here.
MR. GRIFFIN: And you've got to charge that, right? That's sort of a -- you've got to plug it in, battery operated of some sort?
JEFF CROFT: It would have some sort of power. I don't know if it's a rechargeable battery or batteries that has to be replaced.
MR. GRIFFIN: Okay, and the thermal scope is for hunting at night. Is that right?
JEFF CROFT: It could be used for hunting at night, yes, sir, to pick up infrared. It's heat sensitive.
MR. GRIFFIN: Kind of hard to hunt at night with a regular scope because it doesn't pick up infrared heat.
JEFF CROFT: A scope and a light would work, but this is also used.
MR. GRIFFIN: Yeah. Okay. All right. Thank you.
JEFF CROFT: Yes, sir.
MR. GRIFFIN: Agent Croft, I'm going to show you what went into evidence yesterday as Defendant's Exhibit 29. And can you see it from up there?
JEFF CROFT: Yes, sir, I can.
MR. GRIFFIN: And these, like, Marker 7, 5, 6, I'll just -- it's identified on the -- in the ledger over here, but these are 300 Blackout shell casings. Do you understand that to be the case?
JEFF CROFT: I don't see Marker 5 on the printout on the left-hand side there.
MR. GRIFFIN: Well, you're right. It's not on -- well, let's follow along. If these are, in fact, shell casings, from what you just described to the jury, the ejection path of the 300 Blackout, where would the person shooting the gun be standing in relation to these markers, 5, 6, and 7?
MR. WATERS: Objection. He's not been qualified as an expert.
JUDGE NEWMAN: Objection is overruled.
JEFF CROFT: If 7, 5, and 6 are shell casings, it would be likely that the shooter would be to the upper side of those rounds.
MR. GRIFFIN: Somewhere near this line in that area?
JEFF CROFT: I can't testify to that line or any kind of angle of that line, no, sir.
MR. GRIFFIN: I understand, but it would be on the side of the line. It would be up in here somewhere, right?
JEFF CROFT: It would be on the left-hand side of where those numbers are. It would be likely that the shooter would be on the left-hand side of where those numbers are if you're looking at it from where I'm sitting.
MR. GRIFFIN: The shooter would be on the left-hand side of these numbers and a little forward of those numbers. Is that right?
JEFF CROFT: I can't say because I'm not sure if the round -- if the ejection hit something on the way out or if there was an obstruction on the ejection, I don't know. I can't testify to how far they would go. I would just know that a normal 300 ejects to the right and slightly backwards.
MR. GRIFFIN: Yes, sir. Thank you. Oh, you were at Moselle on the 8th, I think we have established that, and did you go back on the 13th?
JEFF CROFT: I did, sir.
MR. GRIFFIN: And did you -- you went to the house on the 13th as well?
JEFF CROFT: I did, sir.
MR. GRIFFIN: And we saw body cam from when you're picking up shell casings around the side door, 300 Blackout shell casings around the side door, and I think it -- was that the 8th when you got the shell casings next to --
JEFF CROFT: That was around the 2:00 on the 8th, a little after 2:00.
MR. GRIFFIN: Now, the jury will have the video if they want to see it, but as you're standing out there, you could see the rooftops of the shed building and some other structures down at the kennels where the murders took place. Do you remember you could see the rooftops?
JEFF CROFT: I would think you could see the rooftops.
MR. GRIFFIN: But that's all you could see, correct? You couldn't see SLED agents working around there by the dog kennels.
JEFF CROFT: No, sir. There is planted pines between the residence and the kennels.
MR. GRIFFIN: So, the fact of the matter is you can't see people at the dog kennels from the house based on your personal observation. Is that correct?
JEFF CROFT: From where I was standing, no, sir.
MR. GRIFFIN: Now, you also testified about the location of Maggie's phone, how it was found?
JEFF CROFT: Yes, sir.
MR. GRIFFIN: Did you go out there when it was located?
JEFF CROFT: Yes, sir, I did.
MR. GRIFFIN: Do you recall how it was located?
JEFF CROFT: Yes, sir, I do.
MR. GRIFFIN: How was it located?
JEFF CROFT: We sent information to the phone company for a ping. The ping was actually 20 something hundred meters, which is a long ways. We then learned she had Find My IPhone on her phone. One of the family members assisted with locating that phone, getting a better location on the phone, and we were ultimately able to find it.
MR. GRIFFIN: So you found the phone, Maggie's phone, by a family member using Find My IPhone.
JEFF CROFT: And I think it was John Marvin is the one that assisted us with that.
MR. GRIFFIN: And do you think John Marvin was using Buster's phone to do that?
JEFF CROFT: I don't have a clue what he was using.
MR. GRIFFIN: And then when the phone was collected, you were provided the password. Do you remember you testified the password was provided?
JEFF CROFT: We were provided the PIN to open the phone, yes, sir.
MR. GRIFFIN: And are you aware that Alex Murdaugh provided the PIN to SLED so they could open Maggie's phone?
JEFF CROFT: Again, I don't know where we -- where the pass code or PIN came from, but we were provided a PIN.
MR. GRIFFIN: Do you know what a Faraday bag is?
JEFF CROFT: Yes, sir, I do.
MR. GRIFFIN: Did anyone have a Faraday bag out --
JEFF CROFT: I did not have a Faraday back out that way.
MR. GRIFFIN: What's the purpose of a Faraday bag?
JEFF CROFT: To prevent any tampering from outside sources once a cell phone is collected.
MR. GRIFFIN: And you would put the cell phone inside the Faraday bag so it can't hit WiFi, cell phone towers?
JEFF CROFT: Again, it prevents any tampering from outside to prevent anybody from being able to communicate with the phone --
MR. GRIFFIN: It helps to --
JEFF CROFT: -- from any outside sources.
MR. GRIFFIN: It's a tool to secure the evidence to prevent tampering, inadvertent or intentional tampering, right?
JEFF CROFT: Yes, sir. It's one tool that can be used.
MR. GRIFFIN: And was Maggie's phone put in a Faraday bag when it was seized on the side of Moselle Road?
JEFF CROFT: No, it was not.
MR. GRIFFIN: Did anyone ask or bring up the fact that, hey, maybe we should get a Faraday bag before we move this phone?
JEFF CROFT: I did not ask.
MR. GRIFFIN: Anybody ask in your presence?
JEFF CROFT: Not that I'm aware of.
MR. GRIFFIN: Now on June 8th, you were briefed, and it was -- you were advised that Alex found his wife and son murdered. He was the one that discovered them, correct?
JEFF CROFT: Yes, sir.
MR. GRIFFIN: And on June 8th, you knew that he was Maggie's husband and Paul's father, immediate family, correct?
JEFF CROFT: Yes, sir.
MR. GRIFFIN: And as part of your longtime experience investigating crimes, murders in particular, someone who finds the bodies and is related to the victims is always going to be looked at. Is that fair?
JEFF CROFT: That would be a fair statement, sir.
MR. GRIFFIN: And y'all were looking at Alex on the 8th, SLED was, correct?
JEFF CROFT: We -- yes, sir.
MR. GRIFFIN: And would you have a label? Was he a person of interest or a suspect on the 8th?
JEFF CROFT: We were looking at Alex being one that found the deceased, being the husband, the father, in an attempt to get Mr. Alex out of that immediate circle.
MR. GRIFFIN: And you've described this investigative circle. So, you draw a circle around potential persons of interest, and Alex was in that circle, correct?
JEFF CROFT: We don't draw a circle around any individual person. We work with a crime scene, which is what we considered the circle, and we worked from our way inside out in order to find any potential suspects, identify suspects, clear individuals. So, we start with a small circle.
MR. GRIFFIN: So, when you started with the small circle, although you don't draw it, it's sort of an investigative mental tool, who was the person in the small circle.
JEFF CROFT: We had -- Ms. Maggie was in the crime scene, Paul was in the crime scene, and Alex was in the crime scene.
MR. GRIFFIN: And do you remember that on the morning of the 8th, there were media report that Alex was a person of interest in the murder of his wife and son? Do you remember that being public knowledge?
JEFF CROFT: I try to avoid the media in any investigation because I don't want to be influenced by anything that's said.
MR. GRIFFIN: And the -- well, do you recall SLED putting out a press release on the morning of the 8th that the public need not be alarmed?
JEFF CROFT: I do not recall any press release being put out by SLED.
MR. GRIFFIN: Well, the point being, on the 8th there was a circle and it was only around Alex. He was the only living and breathing person in the circle. Is that correct?
JEFF CROFT: That is the only person that we could place in the circle at that time.
MR. GRIFFIN: And on the 8th, SLED knew that from interviews with Alex that he said he left Moselle at shortly after 9:00 p.m., went to visit his mother in Almeda, stayed for awhile, and came back. SLED and you were aware of that fact.
JEFF CROFT: I am aware of that, yes, sir.
MR. GRIFFIN: Did anybody at SLED ever on the morning of the 8th hightail it over to Almeda and search the house for any evidence whatsoever?
JEFF CROFT: I did not go to Almeda and search the house on the 8th.
MR. GRIFFIN: Are you aware of anyone ever going to Almeda to search the house until some time in September of 2021?
JEFF CROFT: There was a number of agents out working. I'm not sure what the other agents did.
MR. GRIFFIN: Wouldn't it have been a good idea to go a Almeda on the morning of the 8th where the guy in the circle says he was, right?
JEFF CROFT: I did not go, and I can't testify to what other agents did.
MR. GRIFFIN: Well, you've been working this investigation -- are you the lead case agent?
JEFF CROFT: No, sir, I'm not.
MR. GRIFFIN: Who is the lead case agent?
JEFF CROFT: David Owen.
MR. GRIFFIN: All right. Now, every interview that Alex Murdaugh gave, you participated in, right?
JEFF CROFT: I did, sir.
MR. GRIFFIN: So, were you working -- you know, sort of Agent Owen's right-hand man in this investigation?
JEFF CROFT: I was assigned by the captain to assist Agent Owens (sic).
MR. GRIFFIN: So, it's fair that you knew daily developments as the investigation progressed, right?
JEFF CROFT: We had briefs with each other on the case, yes, sir.
MR. GRIFFIN: And you knew that at no point in time in June, July, August, anyone went over to Almeda and searched the house, searched the property for any dirty clothes or any murder weapons?
JEFF CROFT: I know that I did not go, and I'm not sure what the other agents in the investigative circle had done.
MR. GRIFFIN: Well, if you went over there -- if you had gone over there on the morning of the 8th, scoured the place and not find anything, that would sort of help nudge Alex outside this investigative circle, would it not?
JEFF CROFT: I can't testify to what-ifs, sir. I did not go.
MR. GRIFFIN: Okay. On the 8th, you were asked to point out who is that person, who is that person, who is that person. That's Ronnie Crosby, he's a lawyer; that's Mark Ball, he's a lawyer; that's Lee Cope, he's a lawyer. Do you remember that testimony?
JEFF CROFT: I do, sir.
MR. GRIFFIN: Okay. Now, Alex wasn't lawyering up on the 8th. Those were his friends who came over to help him, correct?
JEFF CROFT: They were giving counsel to Alex as far as what we were doing. They were making phone calls to his counsel. That was the instructions which we gave.
MR. GRIFFIN: Okay.
JEFF CROFT: We were given.
MR. GRIFFIN: And they were assisting you, as you saw on the body cam, go through the evidence that you ended up seizing in the gun room, right?
JEFF CROFT: They pointed out some items that they had concerns about.
MR. GRIFFIN: Did you find that their efforts were obstructing your investigation?
JEFF CROFT: They didn't obstruct our search within that gun room, no, sir.
MR. GRIFFIN: Now, you went back, I think, on June 13th. Is that correct?
JEFF CROFT: Yes, sir, we did.
MR. GRIFFIN: And remind me. What was the purpose of the search on June 13th?
JEFF CROFT: The search on June 13th was a follow-up search of the residence. I would have to see the search warrant, the actual search warrant to see what items was being sought at that time.
MR. GRIFFIN: Are you testifying that you had to get a search warrant on the 13th?
JEFF CROFT: Search warrant or consent, I'm not sure. I don't know what exact -- everything that was being looked for at that time.
MR. GRIFFIN: Well, in fact, Alex Murdaugh gave consent any time he was asked by SLED if they could go on the property, right?
JEFF CROFT: My understanding is consent was obtained each time.
MR. GRIFFIN: And so there was no search warrant on the 13th, was there, Agent Croft?
JEFF CROFT: I would have to see our legal grounds for being there. Whether it was consent or a search warrant, I do not know.
MR. GRIFFIN: Right, and you don't need a search warrant if there's consent.
JEFF CROFT: No, sir, you do not.
MR. GRIFFIN: And in this interview -- excuse me, this search you have seized Exhibit 151, which is -- and I'll hand it to you -- that's a 300 Blackout clip. Is that right?
JEFF CROFT: It's a magazine with 300 Blackout ammunition, yes, sir.
MR. GRIFFIN: And that was found where?
JEFF CROFT: I collected it from a black Ford F150.
MR. GRIFFIN: On the property. Is that correct?
JEFF CROFT: That is correct, yes, sir.
MR. GRIFFIN: And I think you testified it was found on the floorboard of the truck. Is that right?
JEFF CROFT: I didn't testify to where it was found, no, sir.
MR. GRIFFIN: Do you know where it was found?
JEFF CROFT: No, sir, just a black Ford F150.
MR. GRIFFIN: Did you find it?
JEFF CROFT: No, sir, I did not.
MR. GRIFFIN: Oh, it was just provided to you?
JEFF CROFT: Yes, sir.
MR. GRIFFIN: Okay. Now, the jury heard the videotape interview of Alex on June 10th where he told you that Paul left everything everywhere. Do you remember hearing that statement?
JEFF CROFT: I do remember that, yes, sir.
MR. GRIFFIN: And does this evidence support what Alex told you, that Paul left everything everywhere if you found a clip, a 300 Blackout --
JEFF CROFT: I can't testify who had the magazine in the F150.
MR. GRIFFIN: Do you know who last drove that F150?
JEFF CROFT: I do not, sir.
MR. GRIFFIN: Was any analysis done of that clip?
JEFF CROFT: The way it's packaged there, it does not appear that there's been any analysis done.
MR. GRIFFIN: Were any fingerprints taken of that clip?
JEFF CROFT: Again, sir, the way it's packaged, it does not appear that there was any analysis done.
MR. GRIFFIN: And I think there was another clip that was seized from the shelf in the gun room, and I don't have that pulled up. I think it was 150 perhaps. Did -- do you remember seizing that other clip from the gun room?
JEFF CROFT: Yes, sir. There was another magazine with a 300 Blackout.
MR. GRIFFIN: Were there any fingerprints taken from the clip seized from the shelf in the gun room?
JEFF CROFT: I don't think so, sir.
MR. GRIFFIN: Was any analysis done of the clip taken from the shelf in the gun room?
JEFF CROFT: The way I recall it being packaged yesterday, it would appear there was no analysis performed.
MR. GRIFFIN: Yet you brought it to court. You want this jury to have it. Why is that?
MR. WATERS: Objection, Your Honor.
JUDGE NEWMAN: The basis for the objection?
MR. WATERS: I believe that's outside the scope of this witness's purpose here as to why it's being offered into court.
JUDGE NEWMAN: Response to the objection?
MR. GRIFFIN: Your Honor, I'm asking his knowledge, not anything beyond his knowledge. He can say I don't know or if he has a reason.
JUDGE NEWMAN: I overrule the objection.
JEFF CROFT: Can you repeat the question, please, sir?
MR. GRIFFIN: Yeah. Do you know why you were asked do bring those clips to court and put them into evidence before this jury?
JEFF CROFT: I do not, sir.
MR. GRIFFIN: All right. Now, you also did a search of the shooting range, and I couldn't -- I went through my notes and I can't -- don't have a date. Was that on the 13th or a different date?
JEFF CROFT: I'm not sure if it was the 13th or the 16th.
MR. GRIFFIN: 16th? I think you may be right. Either way, again, that was a consent search, right? You didn't have a search warrant for that.
JEFF CROFT: We did get consent for that, yes, sir.
MR. GRIFFIN: And the jury saw the video -- we're not going to belabor that again -- but there was a shooting house, if you will, with a chair and a thing you would rest a gun on, and we saw you picking up a lot of shell casings, right?
JEFF CROFT: Yes, sir.
MR. GRIFFIN: And the shell casings you were picking up were the 300 Blackout spent shell casing cartridges, right?
JEFF CROFT: That is correct, sir.
MR. GRIFFIN: But there was a lot of brass in there that were not 300 Blackout cartridges, right?
JEFF CROFT: There was additional brass that was not 300, yes, sir.
MR. GRIFFIN: Now, we didn't get a good look. If you're sitting in that chair in the shooting house down range, do you remember what was on the other end 100 yards or so away? Do you remember what was on the other end?
JEFF CROFT: I do not recall what's back on that end, no, sir. A target of some sort.
MR. GRIFFIN: Are you aware there's a big dirt mound there?
JEFF CROFT: A berm or two.
MR. GRIFFIN: That's safe, right? I mean, you don't want to be shooting a rifle just going down, you know, without something to stop it, so there's a berm there to stop it, right?
JEFF CROFT: It was going into a wooded area, yes, sir.
MR. GRIFFIN: But there was a berm --
JEFF CROFT: There was a dirt mound. There was a dirt mound.
MR. GRIFFIN: There was a target and then a dirt mound behind it. Is that right?
JEFF CROFT: That's correct.
MR. GRIFFIN: Now, we saw you picking up brass. Who went down to the other end and started digging in that dirt, earth and dirt mound to find fired projectiles?
JEFF CROFT: I did not go down to the other end, no, sir.
MR. GRIFFIN: In fact, nobody at SLED went to that other end to dig out 300 Blackout fired projectiles, did they?
JEFF CROFT: I did not, and I don't know what the other agents did, no, sir.
MR. GRIFFIN: Well, you're assisting Agent Owen. You're going to briefings. You didn't hear at any point in time, well, we should have or we did dig out projectiles from the dirt mound?
JEFF CROFT: I never heard of anyone digging out the dirt mounds -- or digging out brass in the dirt mounds.
MR. GRIFFIN: If you had dug out projectiles from the dirt mound, that could have been sent to the ballistics lab at SLED and done a comparison to the projectiles found at the crime scene, correct?
JEFF CROFT: There would be a lot of elements that would go into whether it can actually be looked at or not.
MR. GRIFFIN: Or you could certainly compare it to what was -- I mean, you could take a 300 Blackout and shoot it out of Buster's gun right there leaning next to you and compare it to the projectile, is that -- you're aware that could be done at SLED, right?
JEFF CROFT: Yes, sir, I am.
MR. GRIFFIN: Okay, but it wasn't, was it?
JEFF CROFT: I'm not sure what testing was done on this particular rifle to compare it to anything at the scene.
MR. GRIFFIN: Okay. Now, let's go to the June 10th interview. You and Agent Owens (sic) interviewed Alex in Agent Owen's SUV, SLED issued vehicle, on June 10th, right?
JEFF CROFT: Yes, sir, we did.
MR. GRIFFIN: And that was at brother John Marvin's hunting lodge in Varnville or somewhere close by, correct?
JEFF CROFT: Yes, sir.
MR. GRIFFIN: Not yet.
MR. GRIFFIN: The -- a lot of people were interviewed that day, right?
JEFF CROFT: There was a number of interviews going on at the same time, yes, sir.
MR. GRIFFIN: And -- well, again, that was consent, correct? The interviews were consensual.
JEFF CROFT: Yes, sir.
MR. GRIFFIN: And you interviewed -- the folks being interviewed that day not only included Alex, but they included John Marvin, his brother; his son, Buster; and his other brother, Randy. Is that correct?
JEFF CROFT: To my recollection, yes, sir.
MR. GRIFFIN: And when you pulled up on June the 10th, it was about -- was it early afternoon it seemed like?
JEFF CROFT: The timestamp should be on the video. I don't recall what time it was.
MR. GRIFFIN: But it was a little bit like the calvary coming, wasn't it, because there were a lot of cars that pulled up at one time, right?
JEFF CROFT: They were aware we were coming.
MR. GRIFFIN: They were -- how many agents went?
JEFF CROFT: We took agents to interview each person that was there.
MR. GRIFFIN: You took two agents for each interview, right?
JEFF CROFT: I think there was two agents for each interview, yes, sir.
MR. GRIFFIN: And each agent came in their own car, right?
JEFF CROFT: I think I may have rode with Special Agent Owen. I'm not sure if we -- if the others drove their own cars or not.
MR. GRIFFIN: And so there was at least four -- could have been more than that -- cars, right?
JEFF CROFT: There was probably four cars, yes, sir.
MR. GRIFFIN: And you put each person, Randy, John Marvin, Buster, and Alex, in a separate car all at one time.
JEFF CROFT: Pretty close to the same time, yes, sir. Each one got in the car with agents.
MR. GRIFFIN: And that's a law enforcement investigative technique so that you don't want witnesses to be comparing notes, and you want to interview them in separate places at the same time, and to get what's fresh on their mind without being -- learning what another witness has said, right?
JEFF CROFT: We wanted to interview them individually, yes, sir.
MR. GRIFFIN: And you said they knew that you were coming, but did you alert anyone that we're all going to be coming in, you know, at least four cars, and we're going to interview you separately at the same time?
JEFF CROFT: There was some other things that was going to take place while we were conducting interviews, so it was arranged that they would all be at that location, and we were going to meet them there and conduct the interviews.
MR. GRIFFIN: And you also had a guy there to do a phone extraction.
JEFF CROFT: Yes, sir. Those are the other things I was talking about.
MR. GRIFFIN: Now, that wasn't told to Alex or John Marvin or Buster or Randy before SLED rolled in on the 8th at John Marvin's hunting lodge, right?
JEFF CROFT: It's my understanding that they knew we were coming and that we were going to request the phone analysis be done.
MR. GRIFFIN: You think someone with SLED would have told Alex ahead of time, or told John Marvin ahead of time that we're going to -- when we get there be sure not erase anything off your phone because we're going to download it?
JEFF CROFT: I didn't set the meeting up. I went with Agent Owen to conduct the interview.
MR. GRIFFIN: But -- and one of the first things you did at the interview was -- you and Agent Owen was asked Alex if he would give over his phone so that it could be extracted, correct?
JEFF CROFT: That was one of the first things we asked for.
MR. GRIFFIN: And that extraction was done, you know, by another agent who came in a separate vehicle, I assume. Is that right?
JEFF CROFT: He's not an agent with the South Carolina Law Enforcement Division, no, sir.
MR. GRIFFIN: Okay. He was an investigator with 14th Circuit Solicitor's Office?
JEFF CROFT: That's my understanding of his job title, yes, sir.
MR. GRIFFIN: And that would be Investigator Hightower. Is that who did that?
JEFF CROFT: That is my understanding, yes, sir.
MR. GRIFFIN: And during the interview, you also -- at the end of the interview, you got a buccal swab from Alex, right?
JEFF CROFT: I did, sir.
MR. GRIFFIN: You got a buccal swab from -- everybody who was interviewed gave buccal swabs, meaning John Marvin, Randy, Buster, and Alex, correct?
JEFF CROFT: I know that Alex -- we secured a buccal from Alex. I'm pretty sure that there was one collected from Buster, I'm not sure about John Marvin and Randy.
MR. GRIFFIN: Now, yesterday we listened to the entire video interview with Alex, and it ran for almost an hour -- could be longer -- but you sat on the stand and heard that, right?
JEFF CROFT: Yes, sir, I did.
MR. GRIFFIN: And at various points in time you were asked what did he just tell you. Did he just tell you this. Do you remember that?
JEFF CROFT: I do, sir.
MR. GRIFFIN: And then you get to one point in the interview where you were asked what did he just say after you said it must be tormenting him? And you testified that Alex said on the video captured by audio that: It was so bad, I did him so bad. That's what you testified to yesterday.
JEFF CROFT: Yes, sir, that is what I testified to.
MR. GRIFFIN: Now, are you 100 percent confident that Alex said I did him so bad rather than they did him so bad?
JEFF CROFT: I'm 100 percent confident in what I heard and I interpreted him and as saying.
MR. GRIFFIN: Okay, but you would agree that this jury can hear the same thing you heard on June the 10th by playing what was captured on the body cam, or the recording equipment in Agent Owen's car, right?
JEFF CROFT: Yes, sir.
MR. GRIFFIN: Now, when you heard what you said you're confident what you heard, that, that he said I did him so bad, what did you do in response to that?
JEFF CROFT: I made a mental note of it -- on it -- of it. Again, we were still in the early stages of the investigation. It was more of an information gathering from Mr. Alex, and we did not have information at that point to my opinion to challenge Mr. Alex on any of his statements.
(Break in proceedings.)
MR. GRIFFIN: So, Alex Murdaugh was the one and only in this circle on June the 10th. You're in the car with him, and according to your testimony he says: I did him so bad.
JEFF CROFT: That is what I understood him to say, yes, sir.
MR. GRIFFIN: And you just said you took a mental note of it.
JEFF CROFT: Yes, sir, I did.
MR. GRIFFIN: I mean, if the guy in the middle of the circle, the only one in the circle says I did him so bad, isn't that a significant statement if he actually said that?
JEFF CROFT: It's definitely something we would follow up with.
MR. GRIFFIN: You never followed up with it, did you?
JEFF CROFT: There was a third interview conducted with Mr. Alex.
MR. GRIFFIN: There was a third interview. There was a third interview conducted on August the 11th of 2021, right?
JEFF CROFT: I don't recall the exact date.
MR. GRIFFIN: We'll hear about it, but you were there, right?
JEFF CROFT: Yes, sir, I was.
MR. GRIFFIN: And tell the jury if you asked Alex Murdaugh on August the 11th of 2021 what did you find mean back on June 10th when you said I did him so bad?
JEFF CROFT: We didn't make it to that point, sir.
MR. GRIFFIN: In fact, back on June 10th after you had this -- what you heard him say, I did him so bad, you went on to talk about funeral arrangements, whether it was going to be public or private. Isn't that right?
JEFF CROFT: There was questions concerning funeral arrangements, yes, sir.
MR. GRIFFIN: And Agent Owen says -- well, Alex said he was trying to make arrangements so there wouldn't be, you know, a lot of media there or any media there. And, you know, the guy who just said I did him so bad, I mean, the response to that was they don't deserve to be there. Do you recall that?
JEFF CROFT: Repeat that again, sir.
MR. GRIFFIN: Do you remember Agent Owen saying in your presence to Alex the media did not deserve to be at Maggie and Paul's funeral?
JEFF CROFT: I do recall saying Agent Owen saying something about the media not being there, yes, sir.
MR. GRIFFIN: And that was after, according to you, he said: I did him so bad.
JEFF CROFT: Yes, sir.
MR. GRIFFIN: Did you consider that to be some sort of confession on June the 10th?
JEFF CROFT: Again, it was something that we were definitely going to follow up on, yes, sir.
MR. GRIFFIN: Getting ready for your testimony yesterday, did you review a transcript that was prepared by SLED of that interview of June 10th with Alex?
JEFF CROFT: No, sir. I have never seen a transcript that was prepared for that.
MR. GRIFFIN: Are you aware that a transcript was prepared at SLED?
JEFF CROFT: No, sir, I'm not.
MR. GRIFFIN: You're hearing that for the first time?
JEFF CROFT: Yes, sir, I am.
MR. GRIFFIN: Well, let me ask you. Back on June 10th, why didn't you ask him right then and there when he said I did him so bad, why didn't you ask him what do you mean by, Alex?
JEFF CROFT: Again, it was early in the investigation. It was more of an information-gathering interview, if you would call it an interview with Mr. Alex, and we did not -- at that particular time in the investigation, we did not have evidence to challenge anything that Mr. Alex would have told us. It was decided that we would not cross that at that time.
MR. GRIFFIN: I mean, I'm not -- my question wasn't why didn't you challenge him. My question is why didn't you ask for clarification like what are you talking about you did him so bad?
JEFF CROFT: Asking for clarification of I did him so bad would ultimately be a challenge of what he said.
MR. GRIFFIN: So, what are the -- what were -- the things going through your mind when you heard or misheard I did him so bad were ,like, I wasn't a good dad, I spoiled him, or I killed him? What was going through your mental note?
JEFF CROFT: There was a mental note that it was definitely something that we needed to follow up on and ask at a later time.
MR. GRIFFIN: Now, from the video it appears you're back there taking some notes.
JEFF CROFT: Yes, sir.
MR. GRIFFIN: Did you take notes?
JEFF CROFT: I was writing specific stuff down.
MR. GRIFFIN: You mentioned a made a mental note of this what you heard, or misheard, I did him so bad, but did you make a written note of him saying that?
JEFF CROFT: I don't recall if I wrote it or not, sir.
MR. GRIFFIN: So, it's possible that you're sitting there with a guy who has now been charged with murder on June 10th in the interview, the father, the only one in the circle, and he says I did him so bad, and you can't tell the jury you even wrote it down on a piece of paper?
JEFF CROFT: I don't recall if I actually made a physical note of it or not, sir.
MR. GRIFFIN: I'm going to play that clip from State's Exhibit 243, which is in evidence. I want you to listen again with the jury.
MR. GRIFFIN: Hang on, Your Honor.
(Break in proceedings.)
MR. GRIFFIN: All right, let's play it, please, Doug, Exhibit 243 in evidence.
(Excerpt of video was played. Audio not transcribed.)
MR. GRIFFIN: Back it up and play it in realtime again, Doug, realtime.
(The video was played.)
MR. GRIFFIN: Okay stop.
MR. GRIFFIN: Did you hear now they or I?
JEFF CROFT: I would still testify that in my hearing I hear I.
MR. GRIFFIN: Your Honor, we would like to play it again at one-third speed to slow it down. It's just the same --
JUDGE NEWMAN: It's your witness. Go ahead.
MR. GRIFFIN: Thank you.
MR. WATERS: Your Honor, I would object to playing it at one-third speed. There is no foundation laid for who is manipulating it, how it's being manipulated. Obviously we have it in realtime and they would have to do some additional --
JUDGE NEWMAN: The objection is overruled.
MR. GRIFFIN: Thank you. All right. Please play it at one-third speed.
(The video was played.)
MR. GRIFFIN: Did you hear they then?
JEFF CROFT: No, sir, I did not.
MR. GRIFFIN: Okay, but you would agree the jury gets to decide what he said on that tape. That's the best evidence to --
JEFF CROFT: I agree that they get to hear the tape and make their own mind up as to what he said, yes, sir.
MR. GRIFFIN: Thank you. That's all I have.
MR. GRIFFIN: Now, I said the date August the 11th. You said you weren't sure, but there was another interview with Alex Murdaugh when he came to the SLED Lowcountry office and you and Agent Owen sat down and interviewed him, correct?
JEFF CROFT: That is correct.
MR. GRIFFIN: Now, on all of these interviews that were conducted and that have been played somewhat, or body cam conversations, except for Alex, when you're doing them, do you would tell the person that you're interviewing hey, I'm going to turn the audio recorder on. You're now being recorded. Is that standard operating procedure?
JEFF CROFT: We normally don't advise that we're recording, no, sir.
MR. GRIFFIN: Okay, and you certainly didn't advise Alex that you're recording him on any of the interviews that you conducted with Agent Owen, correct?
JEFF CROFT: I never advised anyone that I was being -- that they were being recorded.
MR. GRIFFIN: In this meeting that you had, were you aware that Alex was asking for the meeting so that he could get an update on whether you'd made any progress in the investigation of the murder of his wife and son?
JEFF CROFT: I was aware that Alex had requested a meeting to raise some questions as to what was going on.
MR. GRIFFIN: I mean, he wanted information as to what was going on, right?
JEFF CROFT: That's my understanding, yes, sir.
MR. GRIFFIN: But y'all had other plans for that meeting, correct?
JEFF CROFT: No, sir. I'm not going to say we had other plans for that meeting. It was an interview.
MR. GRIFFIN: Yeah. I mean, he came there not -- he didn't go to that meeting thinking I'm going to be interviewed, to your knowledge, did he?
JEFF CROFT: To my knowledge, I don't know what his thinking was. He knew he was coming there to meet with myself and Agent Owen.
MR. GRIFFIN: Okay, and during that interview, pretty much you made it known to him that -- well, I mean, you asked him point blank. Did you kill your wife and son?
JEFF CROFT: He was asked that.
MR. GRIFFIN: And you made it pretty clear that -- well, let me ask you. At that point in time, was he a full bore suspect in your murder investigation?
JEFF CROFT: He was still a person of interest. There was some questions that we had regarding information that we had obtained that he could answer.
MR. GRIFFIN: And did he answer the questions that you asked?
JEFF CROFT: Yes, sir.
MR. GRIFFIN: And then at the end of that interview, he asked you to meet with Maggie's mom and dad, Mr. and Ms. Branstetter, and her family, correct?
JEFF CROFT: I think that was the end of the second interview, not the third interview.
MR. GRIFFIN: Well, shortly after that August -- shortly after that third interview with Alex, which we'll get the date in the record eventually, a few days later you and Agent Owen went and met with Maggie's mom, and dad, sister, and brother-in-law, and nieces, correct?
JEFF CROFT: That is correct.
MR. GRIFFIN: And part of that interview -- well, that interview was recorded, right?
JEFF CROFT: The interview with --
MR. GRIFFIN: With the Branstetters.
JEFF CROFT: Branstetters?
MR. GRIFFIN: Yes, sir.
JEFF CROFT: Yes, sir. It was audio recorded.
MR. GRIFFIN: Did you tell them you were recording it?
JEFF CROFT: We did not, I don't think. I did not tell them.
MR. GRIFFIN: Okay, and part of the interview was part of -- the interview was conducted as part of your investigation to get information to assist you in the next steps, correct?
JEFF CROFT: The interview was a combination interview: it was to share information and also to gather information concerning family dynamics, yes, sir.
MR. GRIFFIN: In that interview, you and/or Agent Owen told the Branstetters and the Proctors that Alex was in this circle of investigation, correct?
JEFF CROFT: It was no secret that Alex was in that circle at that point, no, sir.
MR. GRIFFIN: And that you also told them he's the only one that you've identified in the circle, correct?
JEFF CROFT: I don't recall saying he was the only one in that circle.
MR. GRIFFIN: Well, did you identify for the Branstetters o the Proctors any other people in the circle?
JEFF CROFT: They particularly asked about Alex, so I don't recall giving them any other names that was being looked at.
MR. GRIFFIN: In early August of 2021, was there anybody else in the circle that SLED was focused on?
JEFF CROFT: Again, sir, at that particular date I'm not sure who all was still within that circle.
MR. GRIFFIN: And during this interview, Maggie's mother, Ms. Kennedy Branstetter; her father, Mr. Kerry Branstetter; her sister, Marian Proctor; and brother-in-law, Bart, and their children, described for y'all their observations of Alex's relationship with Maggie and Paul, correct?
JEFF CROFT: From their observation of their relationship, yes, sir.
MR. GRIFFIN: And that was -- you were asking that as part of your investigative tool in getting information.
JEFF CROFT: Yes, sir, that is correct.
MR. GRIFFIN: And they reported to you that Alex had a loving relationship with Maggie and Paul, correct?
MR. WATERS: Objection, Your Honor. Rule 801 and 802.
JUDGE NEWMAN: Pardon?
MR. WATERS: Objection. Rule 801 and 802.
JUDGE NEWMAN: Any response?
MR. GRIFFIN: It's not being offered for the matter asserted, Your Honor. It's what he did in response to that.
JUDGE NEWMAN: Objection is sustained.
MR. GRIFFIN: Were you given information in that interview -- did they identify other people who had warned Maggie that -- word on the street in Hampton, that there was some risk to her family's safety resulting from the boating accident?
JEFF CROFT: I don't recall any specific information concerning warning of threats or -- of any nature, no, sir, I don't recall that.
MR. GRIFFIN: You don't recall being provided the name Barbara Mixon?
JEFF CROFT: I do recall being provided names of those that may have information, but as far as specific information, I do not recall any specific information that was shared by the Branstetters.
MR. GRIFFIN: Do you know whether Ms. Mixon was ever interviewed following your meeting with the Branstetters?
JEFF CROFT: I know I never interviewed Ms. Mixon.
MR. GRIFFIN: Were you given information about Ms. Kyna Treherne of a similar nature?
JEFF CROFT: Again, I never interviewed Ms. Treherne if her name was given, no, sir.
MR. GRIFFIN: One minute, Your Honor, if I may check to see what I left off.
(Break in proceedings.)
MR. GRIFFIN: That's all of the questions I have, Your Honor.
JUDGE NEWMAN: Redirect?
MR. WATERS: Thank you, Your Honor.
REDIRECT EXAMINATION
BY MR. WATERS:
MR. WATERS: Senior Special Agent Croft, a couple of things. When you went back, or you went and searched that house, your focus was searching for guns. Is that correct?
JEFF CROFT: That is correct.
MR. WATERS: And to your knowledge, when other agents walked through the house with family members -- and this is on June 8th -- fundamentally they were looking for firearms. Is that correct?
JEFF CROFT: That is my understanding, yes, sir.
MR. WATERS: You were asked about these weapons that you seized that are put into evidence, and you were looking for any potential weapon that could fire rounds consistent with those that was at the scene. Is that right?
MR. GRIFFIN: Objection to leading.
MR. WATERS: I'm on redirect, Your Honor; I would ask for a little leeway.
JUDGE NEWMAN: Don't lead the witness.
MR. WATERS: Yes, sir, Your Honor.
MR. WATERS: What is the point of gathering as much evidence as you can when you have that opportunity? What are you trying to do there?
JEFF CROFT: We were trying to gather as much evidence that could be tested as potential weapons for the scene to be able to include or to exclude Mr. Alex or these weapons from being the person of -- responsible for the murders.
MR. WATERS: All right. You were asked a little bit about this right here, and this was June of 2021, correct?
JEFF CROFT: That is correct, yes, sir.
MR. WATERS: Had Covid had any affect generally on the availability of ammunition?
JEFF CROFT: I'm sorry?
MR. WATERS: Had Covid had any affect generally on the availability of ammunition?
JEFF CROFT: Yes, sir.
MR. WATERS: And tell the jury what, it any, affect that was.
JEFF CROFT: Ammunition was difficult to get during that time because of the shutdown during Covid.
MR. WATERS: Did you find a lot of ammunition inside the defendant's residence?
JEFF CROFT: There was quite a bit of ammunition.
MR. WATERS: Did you find a lot of different types of ammunition inside the defendant's residence?
JEFF CROFT: Yes, sir, we did.
MR. WATERS: Did you find a lot of S&B 300 Blackout in the defendant's residence?
JEFF CROFT: That was mostly what we found.
MR. WATERS: You were asked about the commonality of various rounds, Blackout through others, and you mentioned 308 and 223 and 556. Can you tell the jury a little bit about those rounds and why they tend to be a bit more common as you testified, please?
JEFF CROFT: I'm sorry, can you -- do you mind remind repeating?
MR. WATERS: Yeah, sure.
MR. GRIFFIN: Your Honor, I'm going to object. Beyond the scope. I didn't ask anything about 223s or whatever he said.
MR. WATERS: He asked about the commonality of Blackouts, and he answered about those others.
JUDGE NEWMAN: The witness asked you to repeat the question. I would like to hear it as well.
MR. WATERS: Yes, sir.
MR. WATERS: You were asked earlier about the commonality of Blackout, and you mentioned it was not as common as 308, 223, and 556. I was asking you to explain a little bit about those calibers and why they were more common.
JUDGE NEWMAN: I overrule the objection.
JEFF CROFT: 223 is a very common round. It's utilized in law enforcement. 556 is utilized within law enforcement and also within the military. It's -- prior to Covid, it was easily found, fairly cheap ammunition to go out and shoot as far as rifle ammunition goes. 308 is a hunting rifle, which can be used for larger games such as Whitetail and such like that. 308 is also common round that's used within law enforcement and the military side. It's a very common round. 300, on the other hand, is -- it's just at that particular time, 300 rounds were just -- or weapons were just not that common.
MR. WATERS: How many criminal investigations have you worked where a 300 Blackout was the murder round?
JEFF CROFT: I have none.
MR. WATERS: None?
JEFF CROFT: None.
MR. WATERS: You were asked earlier about the boxes in what has been admitted into evidence as State's 214, and there are actually -- are there multiple exhibits in that particular bag that was not opened.
JEFF CROFT: Yes, sir, it is.
MR. WATERS: All right, and aside from the boxes, what, if any, other exhibit is in that particular bag?
JEFF CROFT: It is a -- what appears to be a credit card receipt with one particular item circled.
MR. WATERS: And that item circled was what?
JEFF CROFT: Gucci.
MR. WATERS: Court's indulgence one moment, Your Honor.
(Break in proceedings.)
MR. WATERS: You were asked something about -- a few questions about the -- what the lab report found and where your experience is at is in general firearms knowledge. Is that correct?
JEFF CROFT: That is correct, yes, sir.
MR. WATERS: Are you a fire marks and tool mark examiner?
JEFF CROFT: No, sir, I'm not.
MR. WATERS: Is it your role to do that specific analysis?
JEFF CROFT: It is not, sir.
MR. WATERS: Is that analysis for others to do?
JEFF CROFT: That is correct, sir.
MR. WATERS: Others who will testify later?
JEFF CROFT: That is correct, sir.
MR. WATERS: You were asked a number of questions about the various loads and some of these shotguns. Did you find weapons that had mixed loads, that had different types of ammunition in them?
JEFF CROFT: Yes, sir, I did.
MR. WATERS: You were asked a couple of questions about the board that Mr. Harpootlian put into evidence yesterday. Do you recall those?
JEFF CROFT: Yes, sir, I do.
MR. WATERS: Are you aware that both victims had stippling on them from their gunshot injuries?
JEFF CROFT: Yes, sir, I am.
MR. WATERS: And what is stippling?
JEFF CROFT: Stippling is a powder burn pattern which is left on an individual due to a close range shot.
MR. WATERS: To a close range shot.
JEFF CROFT: That is correct.
MR. WATERS: Thank you. You were asked some questions about the location where shell casings lie when they're ejected out of the weapon. Is that correct?
JEFF CROFT: Yes, sir, I was.
MR. WATERS: Are there a number of factors that go into where a shell casing might actually land?
JEFF CROFT: Yes, sir, it is.
MR. WATERS: Can people move?
JEFF CROFT: I'm sorry, sir?
MR. WATERS: Do people move?
JEFF CROFT: People can move, yes, sir.
MR. WATERS: You were asked a couple of questions about the cell phone and whether or not it was put in a Faraday bag. Do you know if that phone was put in airplane mode?
JEFF CROFT: I think it was, yes, sir.
MR. WATERS: You've been asked a number of questions about the defendant and the investigation. Do you recall during the course of the interview on June 10th, did Agent Owen mention that y'all had talked to 100 people at that point?
JEFF CROFT: I do, yes, sir.
MR. WATERS: All right, and was the investigation just focused on Alex Murdaugh, or was it focused on anyone and everyone it could be focus on?
JEFF CROFT: It was absolutely not just focused on Alex Murdaugh.
MR. WATERS: Did -- in that particular interview, did Agent Owen mention victim advocates or any sort of grief counseling to Alex Murdaugh? Is that correct?
JEFF CROFT: Yes, sir, he did.
MR. WATERS: When you were that early in an interview and you are interviewing someone who might be in the circle as Mr. Griffin describes it, are you trying to keep your ears open?
JEFF CROFT: Yes, sir, I am.
MR. WATERS: Are you trying to keep the lines of communication open?
JEFF CROFT: Yes, sir, I am.
MR. WATERS: Are you going to confront somebody that early on, or are you going to try to keep the dialogue going?
MR. GRIFFIN: Objection. Leading, Your Honor.
JUDGE NEWMAN: Don't lead the witness.
MR. WATERS: What is your goal when you're that early in the investigation in interviewing witnesses or potential subjects?
JEFF CROFT: Again, based on what we had in this particular case, the interviews conducted with Mr. Alex was more of an information gathering type of interview. It wasn't an interrogation by no means.
MR. WATERS: You were asked about whether or not anyone dug some potential projectiles out of a mound of dirt. Were you aware that there were 300 Blackout cases found around Maggie's body at the scene?
JEFF CROFT: Yes, I was.
MR. WATERS: And were your -- was it -- what was your goal as finding similar evidence in other parts of the property?
JEFF CROFT: Similar casings to the shell casings that were located at Ms. Maggie's body.
MR. WATERS: Did you know that casings can be compared to casings which had been recovered already at the murder scene?
JEFF CROFT: Yes, sir, I did.
MR. WATERS: Did you find cases outside of the side door?
JEFF CROFT: Yes, sir, I did.
MR. WATERS: 300 Blackout cases?
JEFF CROFT: Yes, sir, I did.
MR. WATERS: Did you find 300 Blackout cases at the range across the street?
JEFF CROFT: Yes, sir, I did.
MR. WATERS: You were asked about interviewing a number of witnesses on that day on June the 10th. Is that right?
JEFF CROFT: Yes, sir.
MR. WATERS: Is it common standard operating procedure to interview witnesses separately?
JEFF CROFT: Yes, sir.
MR. WATERS: Is there anything different or unusual about that being done?
JEFF CROFT: No, sir, it's not.
MR. WATERS: Would you do that in any case?
JEFF CROFT: Yes, sir, I would.
MR. WATERS: The June 10th interview with Alex Murdaugh, who all was in that car?
JEFF CROFT: It was myself, Senior Special Agent David Owen, Mr. Alex Murdaugh, and counsel.
MR. WATERS: Jim Griffin was there.
JEFF CROFT: That is correct.
MR. WATERS: His lawyer was there.
JEFF CROFT: That is correct.
MR. WATERS: Remind the jury what Alex Murdaugh did for a living.
JEFF CROFT: He was a trial lawyer and a prosecutor for the Fourteenth Circuit Solicitor's Office.
MR. WATERS: Was that interview aggressive in any way?
JEFF CROFT: Not at all, sir.
MR. WATERS: You were asked a number of questions about various firearms evidence that was seized in this case. Is that correct?
JEFF CROFT: Yes, sir, that is correct.
MR. WATERS: Did you permanently seize every piece of evidence -- firearms related evidence in this case?
JEFF CROFT: Not personally, no, sir.
MR. WATERS: And describe just generally what the SOP is when you have multiple agents working a scene and they find evidence. What do they do with it?
JEFF CROFT: They generally will mark it or locate it, and then one particular person actually does the collection to package and make sure that it gets to our lab.
MR. WATERS: All right, and there can be multiple individuals doing that collection?
JEFF CROFT: Yes, sir.
MR. WATERS: And then where does it go from there? What happens to sync it all back together?
JEFF CROFT: It's generally packaged, turned over to our crime scene or an analyst at our lab. Chain of custody is provided to track that particular piece of evidence as to where it went.
MR. WATERS: Are efforts made by those collecting it to avoid tampering with the evidence?
JEFF CROFT: Slowly.
MR. WATERS: Is the evidence collected in a manner to preserve it as much as possible in its form?
JEFF CROFT: Yes, sir.
MR. WATERS: Is that standard operating procedure for all of SLED?
JEFF CROFT: Yes, sir.
MR. WATERS: Your Honor, may I have one moment to locate an exhibit that's in evidence?
JUDGE NEWMAN: Yes. Let's all stand for a moment.
(Break in proceedings.)
MR. WATERS: Appreciate everyone's indulgence while we dug those out of the bottom.
MR. WATERS: All right. I'm going to show you what's been marked as Exhibit 145 into evidence. And can you publish what the crime notes reflect about where that was recovered?
JEFF CROFT: It's one unfired shot shell from estate box on bookshelf in gun room with the head stamp Winchester 12 gauge.
MR. WATERS: All right. Can I ask you to take these scissors and carefully cut that open, please?
MR. WATERS: Could I have the ELMO up, please, if I could as well? The ELMO, please?
(Break in proceedings.)
MR. WATERS: All right. Tell me, can you describe that, what that is to the jury, please?
JEFF CROFT: It's a 12 gauge shotgun shell head stamped Winchester 12 gauge.
MR. WATERS: All right, and does the plastic part of the shell have any identifying information?
JEFF CROFT: It's got drylok three inch number two.
MR. WATERS: All right. Can I hold that real quick? Is this what -- the round you were just seeing?
JEFF CROFT: Yes, sir. It appears to be, yes, sir. There's a -- a glare is on it. You can't hardly see it.
MR. WATERS: All right. Can you put that back in that bag for me, please?
(Break in proceedings.)
MR. WATERS: All right. I'm going to hand you what's been marked and entered into evidence as State's 149. If you could first of all publish again what the crime scene notes say about that particular round?
JEFF CROFT: One unfired shot shell from estate box on bookshelf in gun room head stamped Winchester 12 gauge.
MR. WATERS: All right, and if you could, please, again carefully open that bag and pull out what's inside and describe it for the jury, please.
JEFF CROFT: It's a black in color Winchester 12 gauge. On the side the writing is drylok three inch number two.
MR. WATERS: All right, and this is the unfired 12 gauge shell that you were just describing?
JEFF CROFT: Yes, sir, it is.
MR. WATERS: All right, and, again, what's written on this particular round?
JEFF CROFT: Drylok three inch number two.
MR. WATERS: All right, and if you could return that to that packaging, please, and let's do the next one. I'm going to hand you what's been marked as State's Exhibit 146. Again, if you could tell us what the crime scene notes say on that, please.
JEFF CROFT: One unfired shot shell from tin box on bookshelf in gun room head stamped Winchester 12 gauge.
MR. WATERS: All right, and if you could, again, carefully open that and see what's inside and describe it for the jury, please.
JEFF CROFT: It's a 12 gauge shotgun shell Winchester head stamp drylok three inch number two.
MR. WATERS: Is it the same as the previous two?
JEFF CROFT: Yes, sir, it is.
MR. WATERS: Can I hold it? All right. If you'll put that one back for me. Do the fourth verse. Again, if you would sort of publish those crime scene notes, and then we'll follow the same procedure, please.
JEFF CROFT: One unfired shot shell from nightstand in Paul's room head stamped Winchester 12 gauge.
MR. WATERS: Tell me -- describe it to the jury, if you would, please.
JEFF CROFT: Head stamped Winchester 12 gauge on the side. It's got writing, drylok three inch number two.
MR. WATERS: All right. Same thing?
JEFF CROFT: Yes, sir.
MR. WATERS: All right. Let's move on to the next one. I'm going to show you what's been marked as Exhibit 150 into evidence, State's Exhibit 150. And again if you can, as best you can, tell the jury the crime scene notes on that exhibit.
JEFF CROFT: It's one, and I can read shell head stamped 12 gauge, found from red bin on workshop bench. The State's exhibit tag is over the right.
MR. WATERS: Got you. On workshop bench, correct?
JEFF CROFT: Yes, sir.
MR. WATERS: All right. If you would, carefully open that and then describe what you find to the jury, please.
JEFF CROFT: It's a red in color Federal 12 gauge shotgun shell. On the side it's Federal Premium double-aught buck, three inch mag, 76 millimeter maximum, 1050 bars.
MR. WATERS: Federal buckshot?
JEFF CROFT: Federal buckshot, yes, sir.
MR. WATERS: Can I see that?
JEFF CROFT: Yes, sir.
MR. WATERS: This was found where?
JEFF CROFT: On the work bench, from the red bin on the work bench.
MR. WATERS: And I can't tell if that helps or not. Let me try it.
JEFF CROFT: You can't read it on there, sir.
MR. WATERS: All right. Well, I'll just walk it back then. All right, if you could secure that back? All right. I'm going to show you what's been marked as State's 144. Let's do the same procedure. If you could, tell the jury what the crime notes on that particular exhibit reflect.
JEFF CROFT: One unfired shot shell head stamped 12 gauge Federal from red bin on work shop bench.
MR. WATERS: Okay. If you could, carefully open it and describe for the jury what you found.
JEFF CROFT: It's a red in color Federal 12 gauge. Writing on the side is Federal Premium double-aught Buckshot -- double-aught buck three inch magnum.
MR. WATERS: All right. If you could secure that back for me, please. I'm going to show you what's been marked as State's Exhibit 143 and have you take a look at that one if you would, please. If you could, read what the crime scene notes say.
JEFF CROFT: One unfired shot shell head stamped 12 gauge Federal from red bin on work shop bench.
MR. WATERS: All right, and carefully open it and describe for the jury what's inside.
JEFF CROFT: It's a red in color 12 gauge Federal shotgun shell stamped on the side Federal Premium double-aught buck three inch magnum.
MR. WATERS: Same thing as the previous two?
JEFF CROFT: Yes, sir, it is.
MR. WATERS: Federal buckshot, correct?
JEFF CROFT: That is correct.
MR. WATERS: All right. If you could put that back for me. And we will do one more. I've got State's Exhibit 148. If you could, again tell the jury what the crime scene notes reflect about its location, please.
JEFF CROFT: It says one unfired shot shell head stamp 12 gauge Federal from red bin on workshop bench.
MR. WATERS: All right. If you could, carefully open it and tell the jury what's inside.
JEFF CROFT: It's a red in color Federal 12 gauge shotgun shell. On the side writing it's Federal Premium double-aught buckshot three inch magnum -- three inch magnum.
MR. WATERS: Same as the previous three. Is that correct?
JEFF CROFT: That is correct, sir.
MR. WATERS: All right. Four dryloks?
JEFF CROFT: Yes, sir.
MR. WATERS: Four buckshot.
JEFF CROFT: Yes, sir.
MR. WATERS: The dryloks are what brand?
JEFF CROFT: They are black in color. They are Winchester.
MR. WATERS: And the buckshots are what?
JEFF CROFT: Federal.
MR. WATERS: Just got a couple of more questions for you. You were asked whether or not you took down any notes at any point in the interview, or at a particular point in the interview.
JEFF CROFT: Yes, sir.
MR. WATERS: The interview is being recorded. Is that correct?
JEFF CROFT: That is correct, sir.
MR. WATERS: Was Alex Murdaugh in custody at that interview?
JEFF CROFT: He was not, sir.
MR. WATERS: Was that interview voluntary?
JEFF CROFT: It was, sir.
MR. WATERS: Was that interview aggressive?
JEFF CROFT: It was not, sir.
MR. WATERS: Was his lawyer present?
JEFF CROFT: His lawyer was present, sir.
MR. WATERS: And he's a lawyer, too, or was a lawyer.
JEFF CROFT: Yes, sir.
MR. WATERS: Nothing further, Your Honor.
JUDGE NEWMAN: Further recross?
MR. GRIFFIN: Just very briefly, Your Honor.
RECROSS-EXAMINATION
BY MR. GRIFFIN:
MR. GRIFFIN: Agent Croft, you mentioned stippling with regard to the injuries of Maggie. Do you know how many bullet wounds she had that had stippling?
JEFF CROFT: I know at least one bullet wound had stippling, yes, sir.
MR. GRIFFIN: Just one. That's all you remember.
JEFF CROFT: Yes, sir.
MR. GRIFFIN: All right, and then talking about on the June 10th you -- y'all had interviewed 100 people or more, broad investigation, but did you have anybody else in the circle on June 10th besides Alex Murdaugh?
JEFF CROFT: We had names of interest that we were interviewing, yes, sir.
MR. GRIFFIN: And then you were asked about projectiles versus shell cartridges. Are you aware that projectiles were found, 300 Blackout projectiles were found in the dog house in the dog bed?
JEFF CROFT: I am aware of that now, yes, sir.
MR. GRIFFIN: Okay, and then there was a 300 Blackout projectile found in the dirt by the tire tracks?
JEFF CROFT: Yes, sir.
MR. GRIFFIN: So, there were projectiles that were found.
JEFF CROFT: That is correct, sir.
MR. GRIFFIN: Yet you're out at the range. You don't look for projectiles, right?
JEFF CROFT: I was collecting the 300 Blackout spent shell casings from the gun room -- or not the gun room, I apologize, the shoot house.
MR. GRIFFIN: Now, you were shown a number of shot shells, buckshot and apparently drylok. What date were those seized?
JEFF CROFT: It looks like 9/13 of 2021.
MR. GRIFFIN: Those were seized three months after the murders?
JEFF CROFT: Hang on a second. 9/13/2021 --
MR. GRIFFIN: Okay.
JEFF CROFT: -- is the date that's written on it.
MR. GRIFFIN: Okay. June, July, August, September, I mean, four months after the murders.
JEFF CROFT: That is correct, sir.
MR. GRIFFIN: And do you know whether that property had been secured during that period of time?
JEFF CROFT: It had not been secured by law enforcement during that period of time.
MR. GRIFFIN: Right. Do you know if any of that in front of you was on the property on June 7th or before?
JEFF CROFT: I can -- it was there the day we collected it. I can't answer that other question.
MR. GRIFFIN: And I understand you didn't collect any of that, correct?
JEFF CROFT: No, sir.
MR. GRIFFIN: And you don't know where it was collected from other than what you're reading on the envelope, right? And you're reading someone else's evidence description. Is that correct?
JEFF CROFT: That is correct, sir.
MR. GRIFFIN: That's all I have, Your Honor.
JUDGE NEWMAN: Thank you. You may step down.
JEFF CROFT: Thank you, sir.
JUDGE NEWMAN: And we'll take a break now about for 10 minutes or so.
(The jury left the courtroom.)
(A break was taken.)
JUDGE NEWMAN: Are we ready for the jury?
MR. WATERS: The state is, Your Honor.
JUDGE NEWMAN: If you would bring the jury, please.
(The jury returned to the courtroom.)
COURT BAILIFF: The jury is present, sir.
JUDGE NEWMAN: Thank you. You may call your next witness.
MR. WATERS: Thank you, Your Honor. I'll turn it over to Mr. Conrad.