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2023 Murder TrialtranscripttranscriptT.C. Smalls — Direct/Cross/Redirect - Day 24 - 2023 Murder TrialFormer Sheriff T.C. Smalls denied authorizing blue lights for Alex Murdaugh’s vehicle or discussing boat-case threats with him, then addressed possible authorization by another official on cross-examination.
Creighton WatersJim GriffinClifton NewmanT.C. SmallsJudge NewmanMr. WatersCourt ClerkT.C. SmallsMr. Griffindirectcrossredirect
2023 Murder Trial/Day 24/February 28, 2023
8 pages·6 witnesses·2,613 lines
Former Sheriff T.C. Smalls denied authorizing blue lights for Alex Murdaugh’s vehicle or discussing boat-case threats with him, then addressed possible authorization by another official on cross-examination.
Proceedings
DirectT.C. Smalls - DirectLine 25
CrossT.C. Smalls - CrossLine 2
RedirectT.C. Smalls - RedirectLine 18
12:51:47

JUDGE NEWMAN: Your next witness.

22:51:50

MR. WATERS: Your Honor, the state calls T.C. Smalls.

32:51:57

The witness, Thomas C. SMALLS, was first duly sworn and testified as follows:

42:52:05

COURT CLERK: If you would, please, sir, sit right in the chair. State your full name for the record, and spell your last name, please.

52:52:22

T.C. SMALLS: My name is Thomas C. Smalls. Folks call me T.C. Smalls. S-m-a-l-l-s.

62:52:34

DIRECT EXAMINATION

72:52:35

BY MR. WATERS:

82:52:36

MR. WATERS: Sheriff Smalls, how are you doing today?

92:52:38

T.C. SMALLS: I'm pretty good.

102:52:39

MR. WATERS: All right. Tell the jury just a quick little bit about yourself. And I called you sheriff, so if you could just kind of explain that to them a little bit.

112:52:47

T.C. SMALLS: Okay. I was in law enforcement for thirty-nine years, eight months. I retired in December. Sixteen years of those thirty-nine years was I served as sheriff of Hampton County. Been in Hampton County all my life. I'm a pastor. Pretty much -- married. Four kids, seven grand kids. And just trying to enjoy some retirement. I retired December 31, the 31st day of December, 2022.

122:53:26

MR. WATERS: I'm sorry to pull you back in. Okay, you say you just retired, huh?

132:53:28
142:53:28

MR. WATERS: All right. Do you know the defendant, Alex Murdaugh?

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T.C. SMALLS: Yes, I do.

162:53:35

MR. WATERS: You've known him for years?

172:53:37

T.C. SMALLS: Oh, yeah.

182:53:38

MR. WATERS: Did you ever have a conversation with Alex Murdaugh about him asking you permission, or even tell you about installing lights in his private vehicle?

192:53:50

T.C. SMALLS: No, sir. I never had a conversation with Alex Murdaugh. Matter of fact, I never had a conversation with anyone in my thirty-nine years about installing blue lights in their personal vehicle.

202:54:07

MR. WATERS: That's not something that's done, is it, sir?

212:54:09

T.C. SMALLS: Oh, no, no.

222:54:11

MR. WATERS: Did you know anything about the defendant claiming that you permitted him to do so until he testified to that last week?

232:54:17

T.C. SMALLS: Correct.

242:54:17

MR. WATERS: Didn't know anything about it?

252:54:20

T.C. SMALLS: Didn't know anything about it.

262:54:22

MR. WATERS: And he never approached you at any point about that?

272:54:29

T.C. SMALLS: No, sir.

282:54:31

MR. WATERS: Did he ever approach you about any threats or anything as a result of the boat case, the boat wreck case?

292:54:49

T.C. SMALLS: No, he never have.

302:54:52

MR. WATERS: Thank you. Nothing further.

312:54:55

JUDGE NEWMAN: Cross-examination.

322:54:57

CROSS-EXAMINATION

332:54:58

BY MR. GRIFFIN:

342:55:00

MR. GRIFFIN: Good afternoon, Sheriff Smalls.

352:55:02

T.C. SMALLS: How are you doing?

362:55:05

MR. GRIFFIN: My name is Jim Griffin. I'm a little hoarse. This pollen is getting to me so this won't take long. You've known Alex Murdaugh for many, many years. Is that correct?

372:55:22

T.C. SMALLS: Correct.

382:55:23

MR. GRIFFIN: And he was a volunteer solicitor in Hampton County in the Fourteenth Circuit for a number of years, correct?

392:55:32

T.C. SMALLS: I realize he work along with his father --

402:55:36
412:55:37

T.C. SMALLS: -- as a -- I don't know whether -- I thought he was an assistant solicitor, but he worked along with his father as -- in Hampton County.

422:55:45

MR. GRIFFIN: But he held the position of assistant solicitor for the Fourteenth Circuit.

432:55:49

T.C. SMALLS: Yes, he did.

442:55:50

MR. GRIFFIN: And he worked with his father.

452:55:54
462:55:55

MR. GRIFFIN: Tried cases in Hampton County and perhaps Colleton County and other places. Were you aware of that?

472:55:59

T.C. SMALLS: Correct, yes, sir.

482:56:00

MR. GRIFFIN: And are you aware of him trying any cases when it wasn't with his father?

492:56:07

T.C. SMALLS: Not to my knowledge.

502:56:09

MR. GRIFFIN: Okay, and his father was -- we're talking about Randolph Murdaugh.

512:56:12

T.C. SMALLS: Correct.

522:56:13

MR. GRIFFIN: And he was previously solicitor. Is that correct?

532:56:16
542:56:16

MR. GRIFFIN: And are you aware that Alex Murdaugh was issued a badge for that position?

552:56:22

T.C. SMALLS: No, I was not.

562:56:24

MR. GRIFFIN: Okay, and there's some -- you were questioned about permission that -- whether you gave him permission to have the blue light installed in the vehicle, and you said you did not, correct?

572:56:44

T.C. SMALLS: Correct.

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MR. GRIFFIN: Do you know whether Anthony Russell gave him permission?

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T.C. SMALLS: I can't answer that.

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MR. GRIFFIN: And who is Anthony Russell?

612:56:52

T.C. SMALLS: Well, during my time when I was sheriff, Anthony Russell was a captain in my administration. He later became sheriff. After I retired, he ran and he won the office of sheriff, and he holds the office now.

622:57:10

MR. GRIFFIN: And he was maybe not your right-hand man, but he was pretty high up in your administration.

632:57:15

T.C. SMALLS: He was a captain.

642:57:15

MR. GRIFFIN: Okay, and then Chauncey Solomon, he was -- what was his position?

652:57:20

T.C. SMALLS: Chauncey Solomon was a lieutenant.

662:57:22

MR. GRIFFIN: And Perry Singleton, he passed away. What was his position?

672:57:26

T.C. SMALLS: He was a lieutenant.

682:57:27

MR. GRIFFIN: And do you know that Deputy Russell and Deputy Solomon and Deputy Singleton were very close to Alex Murdaugh? Were you aware of that?

692:57:34

T.C. SMALLS: Well, I knew they knew him. I don't know how close they were.

702:57:40

MR. GRIFFIN: Okay, and did Eddie -- did Eddie Gibson install the blue lights on the vehicles at -- for the sheriff's department?

712:57:49

T.C. SMALLS: Not from my cause. Most of my vehicle lights was done with a company out of Orangeburg, and then later we started working with a man -- or a gentleman by the name of Charles Mitchell that installed lights, and he had a -- I think Hardeeville and Bluffton.

722:58:08

MR. GRIFFIN: So, you don't know -- do you know who Eddie Gibson is?

732:58:11

T.C. SMALLS: Oh, I know who Eddie Gibson is. He worked with me at one time.

742:58:15

MR. GRIFFIN: And when he worked for you, did he install blue lights? He worked on the vehicles, a fleet of vehicles?

752:58:21

T.C. SMALLS: No, not my vehicles.

762:58:23

MR. GRIFFIN: Well, when he worked for you, what did he do?

772:58:27

T.C. SMALLS: He was a deputy sheriff. He patrolled.

782:58:30

MR. GRIFFIN: And so you're unfamiliar that at any point in time Mr. Murdaugh had a blue light in his vehicle?

792:58:35

T.C. SMALLS: I never had any knowledge that he had blue lights in his vehicle.

MR. GRIFFIN: Thank you. That's all of the questions I have.

JUDGE NEWMAN: Anything further?

MR. WATERS: Your Honor, may I approach? Can we approach very quickly?

JUDGE NEWMAN: Yes. Let's everyone stand for a moment.

(A bench conference was held.)

JUDGE NEWMAN: Okay. Anything further of this witness?

REDIRECT EXAMINATION

BY MR. WATERS:

MR. WATERS: Sheriff, when did your term end?

T.C. SMALLS: I retired on December 31st, 19 -- 2022.

T.C. SMALLS: Yes, sir.

MR. WATERS: So, just a couple months ago.

MR. WATERS: Thank you for coming down.

JUDGE NEWMAN: Anything further?

MR. GRIFFIN: No, Your Honor.

JUDGE NEWMAN: Thank you, sir.

(The witness exited the stand.)