Marian Proctor — Direct/Cross/Redirect
629 linesMR. WATERS: Your Honor, the State calls Marian Proctor.
JUDGE NEWMAN: What's the name again?
MR. WATERS: Marian Proctor.
JUDGE NEWMAN: All right. Is she here?
MR. WATERS: She's right there, Your Honor.
The witness, MARIAN PROCTOR, was first duly sworn and testified as follows:
COURT CLERK: If you would, please, ma'am, sit right up there. State your full name for the record, spell your last name, and then move the microphone a little bit to you, okay?
MARIAN PROCTOR: I'm Marian Proctor, P-r-o-c-t-o-r.
DIRECT EXAMINATION
BY MR. WATERS:
MR. WATERS: Good afternoon, Ms. Proctor.
MR. WATERS: Go ahead and tell the jury, do you have any relationship to Maggie and Paul?
MARIAN PROCTOR: I am Maggie's sister, and Paul was my nephew.
MR. WATERS: Can you pull that mic just a little bit closer, or slide your chair up just a little bit so you don't have to lean forward?
MARIAN PROCTOR: Okay.
MR. WATERS: And is that a fresh bottle of water there?
MARIAN PROCTOR: It is.
MR. WATERS: Oh, it is? That's your water?
MARIAN PROCTOR: Yes.
MR. WATERS: Okay. Go ahead and if you would, tell us a little bit about yourself. Just where you grew up and just a little bit about yourself so they get to know you just a little bit.
MARIAN PROCTOR: Okay. I grew up in Wilmington, North Carolina, Maggie and I did. She's is -- was my only sibling, with two parents. And we both went to college, both married, both lived in South Carolina. We've been here ever since. I'm married; I have three daughters, and we live in the Charleston area.
MR. WATERS: Did -- where did Maggie go to college?
MARIAN PROCTOR: South Carolina.
MR. WATERS: Did she go somewhere else and then transfer to South Carolina?
MARIAN PROCTOR: She did.
MR. WATERS: How far apart are you and Maggie?
MARIAN PROCTOR: Five years.
MR. WATERS: And your parents, what are their names?
MARIAN PROCTOR: Terry and Kennedy.
MR. WATERS: And do y'all have any other siblings, or was it just you and Maggie?
MARIAN PROCTOR: It was just Maggie and me.
MR. WATERS: Growing up, being seven years apart as younger folks were -- was that a bit of an age difference as y'all grew up?
MARIAN PROCTOR: It was. For children, that's a lot. So, you know, I was in college, she was in high school, so we weren't super close when we were children, but later on as our lives became more similar, we became very close.
MR. WATERS: And how long ago do you think that relationship grew for you to be very close?
MARIAN PROCTOR: When the children were little, we did a lot together. It was easy. As they got older with their, you know, commitments, sports and things like that, it was mostly holidays, Christmas and Thanksgiving. And then when we both became empty nesters, we were having a really good time.
MR. WATERS: Did y'all talk almost every day?
MARIAN PROCTOR: Almost every day.
MR. WATERS: Tell the jury a little bit about Maggie. How would you describe her as somebody, just so they can get an idea of who she was.
MARIAN PROCTOR: Maggie was sweet. She was kind of a free spirit. She was always up for anything that was going on. She loved her family. She loved her boys; Buster and Paul were her world. She loved my parents. We, you know, joked how we would grow old together and take care of them. And she was just a really, really good person.
MR. WATERS: Was Maggie a tomboy at all, or was she more of a girl's girl?
MARIAN PROCTOR: No. She was definitely a girl's girl, but she made the best of having two boys. She was right in there fishing, hunting. She didn't grow up doing that. We used to laugh that she would get in the deer stand with her Southern Living magazine and the boys would tell her she was making too much noise turning the pages. And then, you know, fishing, she loved going out on the boat. She loved being at the beach. She loved going to the islands. I don't know that she really fished that much, but she just wanted to do what they were doing. She wanted to spend time with them.
MR. WATERS: What about the Gamecocks?
MARIAN PROCTOR: She was a big Gamecock fan.
MR. WATERS: Are you a Gamecock fan?
MARIAN PROCTOR: I am a big Clemson fan.
MR. WATERS: And y'all still managed to get along.
MARIAN PROCTOR: We got along great. We did. And we were together a lot on those Clemson/Carolina days, and we would have a big time.
MR. WATERS: Being kind of a girl's girl, did she like spending time with you and your daughters and getting the chance to do those sorts of things?
MARIAN PROCTOR: She loved it, and my girls loved their Aunt Maggie. She always, you know, said that she was their favorite aunt. And she just, you know, loved catching up on all of the latest makeup and, you know, hair trends, and shoes, and she just loved doing girls stuff with us.
MR. WATERS: Did Maggie work over the years, or was she focused on taking care of the boys and raising them?
MARIAN PROCTOR: She was mostly a stay-at-home mom. She had a little shop in Hampton for awhile; she and Ms. Libby did that together, so that was fun. She was real involved with the boys' schools, you know, all of their sporting events. I don't know she probably ever missed one. But she was mostly a stay-at-home mom.
MR. WATERS: What about Paul? Did you get to know him obviously as your nephew?
MARIAN PROCTOR: Yes.
MR. WATERS: Tell the jury just a little bit about Paul and what he was like.
MARIAN PROCTOR: Paul was a sweet, sweet boy. Misrepresented in the media. He had such a kind side to him. He was always wanting to help, you know. Aunt Marian, can I bring -- does Uncle Bart need some wood? He would bring us a load of wood. He was a kind soul, and I loved him a lot.
MR. WATERS: Was Maggie very involved in the family finances to your knowledge?
MARIAN PROCTOR: Not at all.
MR. WATERS: Explain to the jury a little bit, if you would.
MARIAN PROCTOR: She -- they had a comfortable life. Maggie was happy. She -- it wasn't a lavish life, but it was a comfortable life. And, I mean, money just -- it, it was never an issue for her that she knew about.
MR. WATERS: That she knew about?
MARIAN PROCTOR: Right.
MR. WATERS: And I think you said you don't think Maggie ever balanced a checkbook because finances wasn't her thing.
MARIAN PROCTOR: She didn't. So, I was the sister who balanced it to the penny and went crazy if I made a mistake in my checkbook. Maggie's was in the floor of her car with all of her bills thrown all over it. She didn't -- organization was not her best skill.
MR. WATERS: Mr. Randolph, Paul's grandfather, did you know him?
MARIAN PROCTOR: I did.
MR. WATERS: And then his spouse was who?
MARIAN PROCTOR: Ms. Libby.
MR. WATERS: Towards the end of Maggie and Paul's life, can you tell the jury just a little bit about Ms. Libby's health?
MARIAN PROCTOR: Ms. Libby had Alzheimer's and it wasn't too bad at first, but she -- she's been declining for years, and it's real bad now. She -- I think she stays in bed all day. She doesn't recognize her family, and she has to be helped to do everything. She can't feed herself or go to the bathroom or do anything.
MR. WATERS: Back in June of 2021, was her condition similar in that regard?
MARIAN PROCTOR: Yes.
MR. WATERS: Back in June of 2021, was Mr. Randolph suffering any health issues?
MARIAN PROCTOR: Mr. Randolph was really sick. He had had lots of different things wrong with him, and I think that his days were coming close to an end.
MR. WATERS: In the days leading up to Paul or Maggie's death, had the family received some not encouraging news about Mr. Randolph's --
MARIAN PROCTOR: Correct?
MR. WATERS: -- prognosis.
MARIAN PROCTOR: Correct. I think that they felt like everything had been done for him that could be done. And I'm not sure Mr. Randolph wanted anything else done to him either. It had been a long road for him.
MR. WATERS: Backing up a little bit. The family, Alex and Maggie's family properties, did they have a house in Hampton at one time?
MARIAN PROCTOR: They did. They built that house.
MR. WATERS: And did they have a beach house?
MARIAN PROCTOR: They did.
MR. WATERS: Where was that?
MARIAN PROCTOR: Edisto.
MR. WATERS: When did they get the beach house roughly? Do you recall?
MARIAN PROCTOR: Oh gosh, I really don't know. They've had it for a long time, fifteen -- I really don't know. I'm sorry.
MR. WATERS: And what about Moselle? They had that property as well?
MARIAN PROCTOR: Yes. Moselle was their most recent property, and it was kind of a hunting plantation type place. Great setup for hunting everything, and lots of beds for Alex to have men come out and have hunts. Not Maggie's favorite place to be, but the boys loved it.
MR. WATERS: And in the summertime, where did Maggie typically prefer to be, Edisto or --
MARIAN PROCTOR: She loved the beach, yes.
MR. WATERS: Do you -- are you familiar with what people refer to as the boat crash?
MARIAN PROCTOR: I am.
MR. WATERS: And to your general recollection, that happened around February of 2019?
MARIAN PROCTOR: Correct.
MR. WATERS: After the boat crash, did the family, particularly Maggie, feel like what she felt is some sort of -- sort of backlash in the community or some sort of negative reaction that bothered her?
MARIAN PROCTOR: She did. That was a devastating blow for their family. It was a horrible accident, but it was an accident. And Maggie felt like the community -- the Hampton community had turned against her. And Paul was being mistreated. People would say mean things to him, call him names, social media, you know, inappropriate things were said to him, inappropriate things were said to him when he went back to school, and it was very hard on the family. It was very stressful.
MR. WATERS: Is that also part of the reason that Maggie preferred staying in Edisto?
MARIAN PROCTOR: I think so, yes.
MR. WATERS: During this time period, did Maggie start looking for a house somewhere else?
MARIAN PROCTOR: She did. She would -- well, they sold their Hampton house and she was looking in the Hilton Head/Bluffton area for something. She had been looking in that area for awhile.
MR. WATERS: Okay. Did she find anything she liked?
MARIAN PROCTOR: She did. She found one house that she just loved, and she called me and my parents to come down and take a look at it, and I believe Alex was there, too. And she really thought that they might make an offer on that house, but in the end they did not. I think Alex advised her that the timing was just not right with the boat case going on.
MR. WATERS: With the boat case going on. So, we move closer to June 7th of 2021. I believe you testified that the family received some bad prognosis on Mr. Randolph. Is that correct?
MARIAN PROCTOR: Yes. Maggie called me that day and said she was at Edisto. She had some men working on the house, and Mr. Randolph was not doing well at all, and Alex really wanted her to come home that night. She hadn't planned on it, but that he needed her to come home, and Paul was going to be there, too. And I said, well, Maggie, I said, you know, Alex and his dad are super close, and that's probably what you should do, go be with him if he needs you.
MR. WATERS: She said that Alex wanted her to come home that night?
MARIAN PROCTOR: Yes.
MR. WATERS: What was your understanding of Maggie's intent for what they were going to do that night?
MARIAN PROCTOR: I was under the impression they were going over to Almeda to visit his parents.
MR. WATERS: And that's why Alex wanted Maggie to come home?
MARIAN PROCTOR: Correct.
MR. WATERS: And that was from your conversation with her.
MARIAN PROCTOR: Yes.
MR. WATERS: She called you to let you know that that's what Alex had called her about?
MARIAN PROCTOR: Yes.
MR. WATERS: You said she was having some work done at Edisto on June 7th?
MARIAN PROCTOR: Yes. Just maintenance work, getting it ready for the summer.
MR. WATERS: You encouraged her to go to Moselle?
MARIAN PROCTOR: I did.
MR. WATERS: Was that the last time you talked to her?
MARIAN PROCTOR: Yes. Thank you.
(Break in proceedings.)
MR. WATERS: Do you remember about what time of day that was?
MARIAN PROCTOR: I think it was around 4:00 in the afternoon. I think she was -- Maggie loved to call me when she was driving. She was always driving from, you know, Moselle to Edisto to Charleston, and I think it was around 4:00 that afternoon.
MR. WATERS: What was the rest of your day like? Just a normal day?
MARIAN PROCTOR: Just a normal day.
MR. WATERS: Did you go to bed that evening?
MARIAN PROCTOR: Actually we were not in bed. We were watching a movie. It was just Bart and me at home that night and --
MR. WATERS: Bart, your husband? Tell me how you found out.
MARIAN PROCTOR: John -- I didn't realize this was going on. We were watching a movie, and Bart had gotten up to, I thought, go into the kitchen. And he had a text from John Marvin saying that there had been -- no, I'm sorry, a text from Randy saying that there had been a tragedy and could Bart please call him on his cell phone. He had called on Alex's cell phone, but wanted him to call -- wanted Bart to call him back on his cell phone.
MR. WATERS: So what happened?
MARIAN PROCTOR: So, Bart went outside and called him, so I still didn't know anything was going on, and told him that Maggie and Paul had been shot and they were dead.
MR. WATERS: What was your reaction?
MARIAN PROCTOR: I just couldn't believe it. I didn't think it was true. I said there has to be a mistake. I said there's got to be some explanation. It just -- it just can't be them.
MR. WATERS: What did y'all do after that?
MARIAN PROCTOR: We gathered up our things and we went to tell my parents, and --
MR. WATERS: Where do they live?
MARIAN PROCTOR: They live in Summerville, and my mom had just had knee replacement surgery. So, when I got to Summerville I called and I said Mom, we're on the way and we've got some bad news to share, but I want to be with you. And so she was sitting in her recline chair with her leg all bundled up. And so we got there and both of my parents were there. I think my mom went into shock. She just -- she couldn't be still, and she just kept making these noises. And it was just the worst.
MR. WATERS: Did you go to Moselle at any point?
MARIAN PROCTOR: We pretty much stayed with my parents all night. We went back home, showered, and then we all went to Moselle the next morning.
MR. WATERS: Over the next few days, were y'all staying back at Summerville and going to Moselle, or what were you and your parents doing and Bart?
MARIAN PROCTOR: So, we had family coming in from Kentucky, and some of them were staying with me, some of them were staying with my parents, but we were in Moselle every day. We were planning the funeral doing just -- we were in Moselle after -- every day after that until the funeral.
MR. WATERS: Did that shock of finding out last for awhile?
MARIAN PROCTOR: I'm sorry?
MR. WATERS: Did that shock of finding out last for awhile?
MARIAN PROCTOR: It's still hard to face.
MR. WATERS: When you got to Moselle, did you see Alex, the defendant?
MARIAN PROCTOR: I did.
MR. WATERS: Did y'all hug?
MARIAN PROCTOR: We did.
MR. WATERS: Did you cry?
MARIAN PROCTOR: We did.
MR. WATERS: Over the course of the next couple of days, or in the aftermath as the shock was wearing off just a little bit, did you have any conversation with Alex about what had happened?
MARIAN PROCTOR: I didn't talk to Alex a lot. Alex was just really busy, and the whole town was coming to see him, and he was very, very, very torn up. I did at one point ask him if Maggie had suffered, and he assured me that she did not. Now I don't know that I think that's true. And I asked if Paul had suffered, and he said no. And then later I asked him, I said Alex, do you have any idea who's done this? I said we have got to find out who has done -- who could do this. And he said that he did not know who it was, but he felt like whoever did it had thought about it for a really long time.
MR. WATERS: Whoever had done it had thought about it for a really long time. Did that strike you as odd?
MARIAN PROCTOR: I just didn't know what that meant.
MR. WATERS: Were you ever privy or have any discussion with anything Alex said about whether or not he went to the kennels that night?
MARIAN PROCTOR: I personally did not talk to him about that, but he told my mom that he had dinner with Maggie and Paul and then he took a nap, which he did. That was kind of a routine. He would lay down on the sofa at night after work and take a nap.
MR. WATERS: But he said he never went to the kennels.
MARIAN PROCTOR: Correct.
MR. WATERS: After your conversation with Maggie, your last conversation with her, did it strike you as odd that she didn't go to the kennels -- or go to Almeda with Alex?
MARIAN PROCTOR: Yes.
MR. WATERS: And why is that?
MARIAN PROCTOR: Because that's the whole reason she went home that night.
MR. WATERS: Did you think from your conversation with Maggie that she was planning to see Mr. Randolph, too?
MARIAN PROCTOR: I thought so. I didn't realize that Mr. Randolph wasn't there at the time.
MR. WATERS: That was a surprise to you?
MARIAN PROCTOR: Uh-huh.
MR. WATERS: In the days and weeks following Maggie and Paul's murder, did Alex ever say anything about the boat case?
MARIAN PROCTOR: We would talk about the boat case, and he was very intent on clearing Paul's name.
MR. WATERS: What did he say?
MARIAN PROCTOR: He said that his number, number one goal was clearing Paul's name. And I thought that was so strange because my number one goal was to find out who killed my sister and Paul.
MR. WATERS: But that wasn't Alex's concern, main concern?
MARIAN PROCTOR: I know he -- I know he -- I know he must have wanted that, too, but it just -- I don't know how he could have thought about anything else.
MR. WATERS: But he talked about the boat case. Did he ever act scared or afraid that the real killers were out there somewhere or anything like that, or was he concerned with the boat case?
MARIAN PROCTOR: We were afraid; we didn't know what was going on. My family was scared. I was scared for Alex and Buster. I felt like they needed protection. I think everybody was afraid, and Alex didn't seem to be afraid.
MR. WATERS: Did he also talk about getting Buster back into law school --
MARIAN PROCTOR: Yes.
MR. WATERS: -- after the murders? Maggie loved those dogs, didn't she?
MARIAN PROCTOR: She did.
MR. WATERS: Did she like going down there and playing with them?
MARIAN PROCTOR: She did.
MR. WATERS: Would she tend to walk down there, or would she take another way to get down there?
MARIAN PROCTOR: If she was dieting, she would walk. Sometimes she would ride her bicycle and she would take the car. She would go -- you know, just whatever she felt like, take her car, take one of the golf cart things.
MR. WATERS: She wasn't a hunter, though, was she?
MR. WATERS: What did she think about those AR style guns that the boys had?
MARIAN PROCTOR: She seemed to be fine with those. I remember when she wanted to give them those for Christmas, and I just -- it just -- growing up with girls and not in the hunting world, I said Maggie, why would you give those boys those guns? And she said they love to shoot hogs, and -- which I understood that the hogs were tearing up their property. But it just scared me that they would -- that the boys would have such a dangerous weapon. But I know nothing about guns, so --
MR. WATERS: Hold for me one second, Ms. Proctor.
(Break in proceedings.)
MR. WATERS: Thank you for testifying. Please answer any questions that the defense may have.
JUDGE NEWMAN: Mr. Griffin.
CROSS-EXAMINATION
BY MR. GRIFFIN:
MR. GRIFFIN: Hey.
MR. GRIFFIN: I'm sorry. This is hard for me, too. Maggie was a very special person, wasn't she?
MARIAN PROCTOR: She was.
MR. GRIFFIN: And she and Alex had a very special relationship.
MARIAN PROCTOR: They did.
MR. GRIFFIN: And they had a very special family, did they not?
MARIAN PROCTOR: They did.
MR. GRIFFIN: And they loved to do things together as a family, didn't they?
MARIAN PROCTOR: They did.
MR. GRIFFIN: And they -- and it just wasn't Alex and Maggie and Paul and Buster, but your parents were part of their family, right?
MARIAN PROCTOR: Yes.
MR. GRIFFIN: And I doubt you've heard all of the testimony here in court, but a lot of Paul's friends referred to your dad as Papa T. Is that what people referred to him as?
MARIAN PROCTOR: Yes.
MR. GRIFFIN: And your mother as Grandmar?
MARIAN PROCTOR: Yes.
MR. GRIFFIN: And it certainly seemed like Paul and Buster's friends were part of your parents' extended family.
MARIAN PROCTOR: Yes.
MR. GRIFFIN: And you and your husband and Bart and your children, y'all would all vacation together with -- not necessarily with Buster and Paul's friends, but Maggie and Alex and Paul and Buster, and y'all did things as a family a lot, didn't you?
MARIAN PROCTOR: We did.
MR. GRIFFIN: And Alex was really close to your parents, wasn't he?
MARIAN PROCTOR: Yes.
MR. GRIFFIN: And he considered your dad as one of his best friends, I believe.
MARIAN PROCTOR: He was very kind to my dad.
MR. GRIFFIN: Right, and y'all had vacationed -- I think you and your husband had a house in the Keys. You would vacation there, right?
MARIAN PROCTOR: Correct.
MR. GRIFFIN: And y'all would do a lot together on a place up on Lake Keowee?
MARIAN PROCTOR: Correct.
MR. GRIFFIN: And, I mean, you said Maggie was, you know, a girl, but she took to the boys and learned to be a mother of two rambunctious sons, right?
MARIAN PROCTOR: She did.
MR. GRIFFIN: And you said earlier that about sporting events, that Maggie never missed any of Paul and Buster's sporting events. Is that right?
MARIAN PROCTOR: Correct.
MR. GRIFFIN: And Alex was there right by Maggie at every sporting event, wasn't he?
MARIAN PROCTOR: Coaching.
MR. GRIFFIN: Coaching most of the time.
MARIAN PROCTOR: Uh-huh.
MR. GRIFFIN: The weeks leading up to the horrific day of June the 7th, you had a family get together up at Keowee?
MARIAN PROCTOR: We did.
MR. GRIFFIN: Your daughter was -- you were having a baby shower for your daughter.
MARIAN PROCTOR: Right.
MR. GRIFFIN: You were about to be a grandmother for the first time?
MARIAN PROCTOR: Yes.
MR. GRIFFIN: And where was it?
MARIAN PROCTOR: When was it?
MR. GRIFFIN: Where.
MARIAN PROCTOR: Where?
MR. GRIFFIN: Yeah.
MARIAN PROCTOR: My daughter lives in Greenville.
MR. GRIFFIN: And the -- and it was the weekend, I think, of May 21st.
MARIAN PROCTOR: I think it was the weekend before Memorial Day weekend.
MR. GRIFFIN: Right, and I'm going to show you a photo and see if you recognize this photo. And this is Defendant's Exhibit 122.
MARIAN PROCTOR: Yes.
MR. GRIFFIN: Do you recognize that?
MARIAN PROCTOR: I took that picture.
MR. GRIFFIN: You took that picture?
MARIAN PROCTOR: I did.
MR. GRIFFIN: Your Honor, we would introduce Defendant's 122 into evidence at this time.
MR. WATERS: No objection, Your Honor.
JUDGE NEWMAN: It's admitted.
(PHOTO MARKED AS DEFENDANT'S EXHIBIT NUMBER 122 WAS RECEIVED INTO EVIDENCE.)
MR. GRIFFIN: Can you pull up 122, Doug?
(Break in proceedings.)
MR. GRIFFIN: I'm not sure, Marian, if the jury has actually seen a picture of Maggie in this trial. She's obviously the only female here in this photo.
MARIAN PROCTOR: Uh-huh.
MR. GRIFFIN: And y'all favor each other greatly, right?
MARIAN PROCTOR: We do.
MR. GRIFFIN: And this was a weekend just couple of -- I mean, you said the weekend before Memorial Day, correct?
MARIAN PROCTOR: Uh-huh.
MR. GRIFFIN: And that's Buster on the left?
MARIAN PROCTOR: Yes.
MR. GRIFFIN: And that's Paul?
MARIAN PROCTOR: Right.
MR. GRIFFIN: And then Maggie and Alex, right?
MARIAN PROCTOR: Correct.
MR. GRIFFIN: Thank you. You can take that down.
MR. GRIFFIN: Did you see Maggie again after being with her up above Greenville?
MARIAN PROCTOR: I did not.
MR. GRIFFIN: So, that was the last time you were together with her?
MARIAN PROCTOR: Uh-huh. She -- they were at Edisto for Memorial Day, and then the next weekend was my birthday and we were back in the Upstate, and then I got the call on Monday.
MR. GRIFFIN: And you understand the weekend after Memorial Day Alex and Maggie went to Columbia for a super regional baseball game with Buster and his girlfriend, Brooklynn?
MARIAN PROCTOR: Right.
MR. GRIFFIN: You were aware of that?
MARIAN PROCTOR: I am.
MR. GRIFFIN: And you mentioned that Maggie was a big Carolina fan, and Alex was a big Carolina fan, right?
MARIAN PROCTOR: They both graduated from there.
MR. GRIFFIN: And they went to a lot of the Carolina sporting events as a couple, correct?
MARIAN PROCTOR: Yes.
MR. GRIFFIN: And leading up to June 7th -- well, let me back up. And I know we've talked about this and I don't want this to come out the wrong way, but Maggie did a lot for Alex's mom and dad, but didn't it make her somewhat sad to go over and visit his mother because of her condition?
MARIAN PROCTOR: Absolutely.
MR. GRIFFIN: And -- which is really not high on her list of things that she wanted to do.
MARIAN PROCTOR: Maggie went there a lot. She just didn't feel like she needed to go every day like Alex liked to go.
MR. GRIFFIN: And Alex would go every day, and sometimes more than once a day.
MARIAN PROCTOR: As much as he could, he did.
MR. GRIFFIN: And he -- but Maggie cared for Mr. Randolph. And I know she loved him. I'm talking about she would, you know, prepare food for him and tried to spoil him, wouldn't she?
MARIAN PROCTOR: It was the no salt diet, and they were all struggling to cook food that he would eat with no salt.
MR. GRIFFIN: And she experimented with different things hopefully that he would enjoy, right?
MARIAN PROCTOR: Right. The whole family was taking turns and trying to provide meals.
MR. GRIFFIN: And you know now that on the 7th, I think, in the afternoon, and we'll establish this later, but you know around 4:00 or 4:30, Mr. Randolph got admitted back to the hospital in Savannah?
MARIAN PROCTOR: I know that now.
MR. GRIFFIN: Right, and you said earlier that you expected from your conversation with Maggie that she was going to go over to Almeda and see Alex's parents on the evening of the 7th, but -- and you found it odd afterwards when you found out she didn't.
MARIAN PROCTOR: Correct.
MR. GRIFFIN: But knowing that Alex's dad was not there and he was back in the hospital, it doesn't really seem that odd anymore, does it?
MARIAN PROCTOR: Probably not.
MR. GRIFFIN: You, you and Bart received an awful phone call on the night of the 7th about Maggie and Paul's death, right?
MARIAN PROCTOR: We did.
MR. GRIFFIN: And it was from John Marvin?
MARIAN PROCTOR: Randy.
MR. GRIFFIN: Randy?
MARIAN PROCTOR: I'm sorry. I misspoke earlier.
MR. GRIFFIN: And one of the requests was that you and Bart go tell your parents in person, right?
MARIAN PROCTOR: Uh-huh.
MR. GRIFFIN: And --
MARIAN PROCTOR: Well, I don't know that they requested, but I knew we had to do that in person.
MR. GRIFFIN: So, you did that in person.
MARIAN PROCTOR: Yes.
MR. GRIFFIN: And then the next day you came to Moselle with your parents.
MARIAN PROCTOR: Correct.
MR. GRIFFIN: And Alex, was he grieving greatly?
MARIAN PROCTOR: Oh, terrible.
MR. GRIFFIN: And people have described him --
MARIAN PROCTOR: We were all.
MR. GRIFFIN: -- described him as being destroyed, is that -- would you agree with that assessment?
MARIAN PROCTOR: Yes.
MR. GRIFFIN: And Buster was there?
MARIAN PROCTOR: Yes.
MR. GRIFFIN: I jumped ahead, but leading up -- and Maggie enjoyed being with -- being at Edisto over Moselle in the summertime.
MARIAN PROCTOR: Correct. I think most people would.
MR. GRIFFIN: Yeah, right.
MARIAN PROCTOR: Yeah.
MR. GRIFFIN: Enjoyed it a lot more than being at Moselle.
MARIAN PROCTOR: Right.
MR. GRIFFIN: But Alex had to stay at Moselle, or did stay at Moselle because his work was right there in Hampton, right?
MARIAN PROCTOR: Right.
MR. GRIFFIN: And Alex was constantly wanting Maggie to come back and stay with him at Moselle, wasn't he?
MARIAN PROCTOR: Perhaps. I'm not sure. I don't think he really liked being by himself.
MR. GRIFFIN: But when he asked Maggie to come back on the 7th, I mean, you didn't think that that was really an unusual request because he wanted to be with Maggie.
MARIAN PROCTOR: Right. No --
MR. GRIFFIN: He didn't like being by himself.
MARIAN PROCTOR: I did not think it was unusual and that's why I encouraged her to do so.
MR. GRIFFIN: And you -- from your conversation with Maggie, you knew that Paul was going to be there.
MARIAN PROCTOR: Correct.
MR. GRIFFIN: And do you know what -- whether -- do you know what -- why Paul was going to be there? Have you heard?
MARIAN PROCTOR: I had -- I didn't know at the time, I know now.
MR. GRIFFIN: But anyway, he -- so -- and you encouraged Maggie to go be with Alex because you know his dad was in bad shape, right?
MARIAN PROCTOR: Right.
MR. GRIFFIN: Now, after Maggie and Paul were murdered, you know, Mr. Randolph died two days later, I believe, or three days?
MARIAN PROCTOR: Uh-huh.
MR. GRIFFIN: So, it was a very difficult time for everyone, wasn't it?
MARIAN PROCTOR: Very.
MR. GRIFFIN: And there were two funerals, one on a Saturday for Maggie and Paul and one on Sunday for Mr. Randolph, right? And then after a day or so, did Alex and Buster come to Summerville and stay with your parents?
MARIAN PROCTOR: Yes.
MR. GRIFFIN: And did they stay with your parents a lot after the murders?
MARIAN PROCTOR: Yes, especially Alex.
MR. GRIFFIN: Yeah. Alex -- to your knowledge, did Alex ever spend another night at Moselle after this?
MARIAN PROCTOR: He did not.
MR. GRIFFIN: He stayed with your parents. He stayed -- he visited with you and your husband and family down at Key West at some time the end of July. Is that right?
MARIAN PROCTOR: He did.
MR. GRIFFIN: And then he and Buster came up to Greenville at one point in time?
MARIAN PROCTOR: They did.
MR. GRIFFIN: And then -- and he was staying with his brother Randy at times. He was all over the place.
MARIAN PROCTOR: He was.
MR. GRIFFIN: Now, you mentioned that after the murders that Alex said that he was -- that he was very intent on clearing Paul's name from the boating accident, right? And you knew that Maggie felt very strongly that Paul was not driving the boat when the beautiful, tragic -- beautiful Mallory Beach came to her tragic death, right?
MARIAN PROCTOR: Correct.
MR. GRIFFIN: And Maggie was adamant. She was on a mission to clear Paul's name, was she not?
MARIAN PROCTOR: Sort of.
MR. GRIFFIN: Sort of? And she was -- and you're not critical of Alex for wanting to clear Paul's name after he was murdered, are you?
MARIAN PROCTOR: I'm not critical about that at all. I think that was his way of honoring Paul after he was gone. I just thought his priorities should have been focusing on finding out who killed Maggie and Paul.
MR. GRIFFIN: And how do you know if he -- that wasn't a priority for him?
MARIAN PROCTOR: We never talked about it; we never talked about finding the person who could have done it. It was just odd. And we were sort of living in fear because we thought this horrible person was out there, and we didn't -- we were mostly afraid for Alex and Buster, but we didn't know the motive behind the killings. We thought it probably had something to do with the boat case.
MR. GRIFFIN: Right.
MARIAN PROCTOR: And we thought that up until September.
MR. GRIFFIN: Right.
MARIAN PROCTOR: And things started to change a little bit.
MR. GRIFFIN: Sure. Well, were you aware that Alex started carrying a gun after that? You didn't know --
MARIAN PROCTOR: Alex always carried a gun.
MR. GRIFFIN: What's that?
MARIAN PROCTOR: He always carried a gun.
MR. GRIFFIN: On his person, that he started carrying a gun.
MARIAN PROCTOR: Uh-huh.
MR. GRIFFIN: Were you aware of that?
MARIAN PROCTOR: I know he usually had one in his car.
MR. GRIFFIN: Right. I want to ask you just some one topic kind of questions. Bubba was Maggie and Alex's dog. Is that right?
MARIAN PROCTOR: Uh-huh.
MR. GRIFFIN: Bubba could be a little hardheaded we've heard.
MARIAN PROCTOR: Uh-huh.
JUDGE NEWMAN: You must use words, ma'am.
MARIAN PROCTOR: I'm sorry.
MARIAN PROCTOR: Yes. Bubba, I think Bubba could be a handful.
MR. GRIFFIN: But it was pretty clear that Alex could control Bubba pretty well?
MARIAN PROCTOR: Yes.
MR. GRIFFIN: And Maggie enjoyed going down to the kennels as far as you know to play with the dogs?
MARIAN PROCTOR: She did.
MR. GRIFFIN: All right, and she was a dog lover?
MARIAN PROCTOR: She was.
MR. GRIFFIN: And you're a dog lover?
MARIAN PROCTOR: I am.
MR. GRIFFIN: And y'all have dogs -- you know that they didn't allow dogs in the house at Moselle?
MARIAN PROCTOR: Correct.
MR. GRIFFIN: Because of, I don't know --
MARIAN PROCTOR: Allergies.
MR. GRIFFIN: Yeah, allergies.
MARIAN PROCTOR: Right, but she had -- they had a big porch and there were dog beds all outside on the porch and --
MR. GRIFFIN: Right.
MARIAN PROCTOR: -- you know, huge buckets of water. When I was there, the dogs were always up there at the house.
MR. GRIFFIN: Did you know there was an electric fence around --
MARIAN PROCTOR: I did not know that there was an electric fence, but --
MR. GRIFFIN: And did Maggie and Alex let dogs in the house down at Edisto?
MARIAN PROCTOR: I don't think so. They stayed mostly underneath the house. She had a pen, a big pen down there.
MR. GRIFFIN: And they had a dog run type thing under the house?
MARIAN PROCTOR: Uh-huh.
JUDGE NEWMAN: Yes or no? Yes or no?
MARIAN PROCTOR: Yes.
MR. GRIFFIN: And did you ever go to Edisto and visit with --
MARIAN PROCTOR: Yes.
MR. GRIFFIN: -- with Maggie and Alex and the family?
MARIAN PROCTOR: Yes.
MR. GRIFFIN: And were Paul's friends and Buster's friends welcome at --
MARIAN PROCTOR: Always.
MR. GRIFFIN: -- Edisto, and at Moselle?
MARIAN PROCTOR: Yes.
MR. GRIFFIN: And --
MARIAN PROCTOR: Maggie loved having the boys' friends around.
MR. GRIFFIN: And I think you mentioned this, but Moselle -- was Moselle Paul's passion?
MARIAN PROCTOR: Yes.
MR. GRIFFIN: He loved that place?
MARIAN PROCTOR: Yes.
MR. GRIFFIN: And Alex enjoyed being there with Paul. Is that right?
MARIAN PROCTOR: Yes, he did.
MR. GRIFFIN: Okay.
MR. GRIFFIN: One second, Your Honor.
(Break in proceedings.)
MR. GRIFFIN: Just very briefly. In your own words, would you just tell the jury what you believe Alex's relationship was with Paul?
MARIAN PROCTOR: I think they had a very good relationship. They loved all the same things. They loved to hunt, they loved to fish, they loved to work the land. I think the plan was for Paul to take over Moselle one day. And they had a great father/son relationship.
MR. GRIFFIN: And in your own words, can you tell the jury what you believed Alex's relationship with Maggie was?
MARIAN PROCTOR: It was good. It wasn't perfect, but Maggie was happy and -- I think she was happy.
MR. GRIFFIN: Thank you. That's all of the questions I have.
JUDGE NEWMAN: Redirect.
MR. WATERS: May it please the Court, Your Honor?
REDIRECT EXAMINATION
BY MR. WATERS:
MR. WATERS: When Maggie called you on the afternoon of June 7, 2021, she reported to you that her whole purpose for going home was to go with Alex to visit Almeda. Is that correct?
MR. GRIFFIN: Objection. Leading.
MR. WATERS: What did Maggie tell you her whole purpose was in going home and Alex wanting her to come home on June 7th of 2021?
MARIAN PROCTOR: She was going home to be with Alex and visit his parents at Almeda.
MR. WATERS: And it was a -- was it such a point of contention that you actually encouraged her to go?
MARIAN PROCTOR: I did.
MR. WATERS: You were asked some questions about -- you testified about Alex not being focused on trying to figure out who killed Maggie and Paul, and then something happened in September. Is that right?
MARIAN PROCTOR: Correct.
MR. WATERS: And that changed for you as you started to look at the motive. Is that correct? That's what you just testified, correct?
MARIAN PROCTOR: Correct.
MR. WATERS: And in September he got fired from the law firm, right?
MARIAN PROCTOR: Correct.
MR. WATERS: And it started to come out about years and years of theft and misappropriation from clients. Is that correct?
MR. GRIFFIN: Objection. Leading.
JUDGE NEWMAN: The objection is sustained.
MR. WATERS: What came out in September that changed your calculus?
MR. GRIFFIN: And objection. Exceeding the scope of cross.
JUDGE NEWMAN: The objection is overruled.
MR. WATERS: Please answer the question.
MARIAN PROCTOR: We were on our way to a football game, and we received a phone call that -- from a friend of ours saying how sorry they were --
MR. GRIFFIN: Excuse me, Your Honor, objection. There's a motion on this issue that has not been ruled upon.
JUDGE NEWMAN: Ladies and gentlemen, we'll have you go to the jury room. Please do not discuss the case.
(The jury left the courtroom.)
JUDGE NEWMAN: The nature of your objection?
MR. GRIFFIN: Your Honor, she was about to testify that she had heard about the roadside shooting. The State has not gone into the roadside shooting yet. Your Honor has not ruled on whether that's admissible or not. We object to it under 403 to being admissible. And substantively that is the objection. Evidence of the roadside shooting, it just opens up a whole new avenue of issues. Secondly, what she knows thus far would be hearsay, which is a technical objection. But the -- certainly we object to any evidence of the roadside shooting.
JUDGE NEWMAN: All right. Mr. Waters.
MR. WATERS: Your Honor, at this point, of course, this is responsive to a question that was raised on cross- examination by Mr. Griffin in which she testified something happened in September, so for that reason to begin with I believe that door is opened as to her to explain what it was that changed in that period in time, which was the nature of my question to her. Additionally, I think if we look beyond that, there is a connection, if we want to talk and have an in-camera hearing about her answer and about 403 and 404, there is a logical connection between what happened in the roadside shooting and what happened on June 7, 2021. And that connection is, of course, that the evidence will show that as the temperature increases, as there's a confrontation for Alex Murdaugh, then things like this happen, and that's what happened on September. But as it relates to this specific witness, this was an answer that came up during the defense cross, and it's fair to explore with this witness now what changed in September, which she's already testified to from a defense question.
JUDGE NEWMAN: And what was the question that prompted the response that you now indicate opened the door -- opens the door from this?
MR. WATERS: From the defense?
JUDGE NEWMAN: Yes.
MR. WATERS: So, again, that particular question, and in her response he asked her -- and he had been, of course, engaging in great detail about the family relationship and that sort of thing, and put up a picture and all of the rest of it, and asked her about, you know, her assessment at that particular time, and she went in and started to explain that. And he was specifically asking about Alex being concerned about clearing Paul's name in the boat case. And then she explained further that -- and he asked her if that was any big deal, and then she went on to explain her answer, and that's when she talked about how everything changed in September. And that's what I was exploring, what happened in September, which has been testimony before this jury and I think now fair game for them to understand what happened in September.
JUDGE NEWMAN: All right. Yes, sir?
MR. GRIFFIN: Your Honor, that was not the question.
JUDGE NEWMAN: Well, what was the question? That was my question to Mr. Waters, and he's explained a whole lot. I don't know if he responded to my question. Maybe you will. What was the question that you posed that generated the response about her concern and her concerns changing?
MR. GRIFFIN: The question that I asked related to her -- I said you testified previously that you didn't believe Alex was concerned about finding out who did this -- more concerned about clearing Paul's name. And then she says, well, it seemed odd he wasn't concerned about finding out who did this. And I said why do you think he was not concerned? And then she goes in to testifying, well, initially we thought it was the boating accident, and then after September we thought perhaps it was something completely different. And, I mean, I was exploring her testimony on direct when she offered up the issue of the roadside shooting. I didn't ask anything about the roadside shooting, Your Honor. I was asking her why she thought Alex was not trying to -- you know, what was the basis of her belief that Alex wasn't trying to find out who did this.
JUDGE NEWMAN: All right, Mr. Waters.
MR. WATERS: I apologize if I wasn't more clear. I don't remember the specific question, but I --
JUDGE NEWMAN: Well, we have -- that's why we have court reporters. We'll have -- Ms. Harris, if you'll go back a bit to Mr. Griffin and his questioning of Ms. Proctor. Go back to Maggie being solely consumed about the -- I don't know how far that was, Maggie being consumed about the boating accident, and it's not too far back from there on where you are now.
(Break in proceedings.)
JUDGE NEWMAN: And if you need a break, we can take one for you to locate it.
COURT REPORTER: I'm looking for the question.
JUDGE NEWMAN: Pardon?
COURT REPORTER: I'm looking for the question.
JUDGE NEWMAN: All right.
(Court Reporter Harris reads back testimony.)
MR. BARBER: Just a moment. You need to be loud enough for me to hear you at least. Go ahead.
COURT REPORTER: Sorry?
JUDGE NEWMAN: Louder.
COURT REPORTER: Yes, sir.
(Court Reporter Harris reads back testimony.)
JUDGE NEWMAN: All right. Mr. Waters?
MR. WATERS: Your Honor, again, if you -- these were indirect responses to his question as he was exploring her statement about his concern on the boat case, and, in fact, the reference to September was actually in response to a follow-up question that the defense continued down that line of questioning. That answer has now come out, and I think that the witness, again, is entitled and is fair game at this point.
JUDGE NEWMAN: You want her to testify as to what changed in September in her mind?
MR. WATERS: Yes, sir, what she meant by that.
JUDGE NEWMAN: And what changed in September?
MARIAN PROCTOR: Do you want me to talk to the --
JUDGE NEWMAN: Yes, ma'am.
MARIAN PROCTOR: So, we received a phone call from a friend of ours who said he was so sorry to hear about my brother-in-law, and the call came in to my husband, Bart. And Bart said what are you talking about? We don't know anything. And he said, well, your brother-in-law has been shot. And we literally stopped the car, pulled over on the side of the road, and it was just the worst feeling in the world because I thought whoever had killed Maggie and Paul had now shot Alex, and I was horrified that Buster was next. So, we made a phone call to Buster, and Buster said his dad had been shot but that he was okay, and that he was on his way or in the hospital at that time. I can't remember. And then at some point -- and I'm not sure, I think I was in shock -- at some point we spoke with Jim Griffin that day, and he told us that, yes, Alex had been shot, that he had been fired from the law firm because he had been caught stealing money.
JUDGE NEWMAN: All right, thank you. Yes, sir?
MR. WATERS: Again, that's her explanation, and I believe that's fair game in this particular instance to this particular witness's testimony that had come out on cross-examination. And I probably would have one follow up additionally I'll actually mention as well. I think there's probably two other matters that probably we should explore while the jury is out, in fairness to the other side and the Court, I wanted to inquire that were in reference to cross-examination. Those are different issues.
JUDGE NEWMAN: What are the -- without going into them, tell me what they are so I --
MR. WATERS: Sure. There were obviously extensive cross-examination about the family relationship. But there's extensive evidence offered by the defense on cross about the family relationship, and there were two questions I was going to ask her about fidelity concerns, and also the -- Maggie and the family wrestling with opioid abuse and pill usage by the defendant, and that both of those have been issues that Maggie had wrestled with and had expressed to her.
JUDGE NEWMAN: All right. Mr. Griffin?
MR. GRIFFIN: Well, as to the -- I don't know if you want me to address the roadside shooting, but certainly that opens up Pandora's Box, 404B. They want to introduce the roadside shooting as motive. How can you have motive after the fact? And so it's not admissible, and it should not be admissible under 403. But just what she says is not that harmful, but they're not going to stop there, Your Honor. And I did not open the door. I said --
JUDGE NEWMAN: Well, you're probing her about Alex's fear. Doesn't Alex -- were you aware that he started carrying a gun? Well, he always carries a gun in his car. No. But then he started carrying it in his pockets. So, you're having her -- cross-examining her to suggest that Alex is living in fear as evidenced by the fact that he continued -- or started carrying a gun not in his vehicle but on his person.
MR. GRIFFIN: Sure.
JUDGE NEWMAN: And she -- and her response is, well, I never -- didn't appear to me that he was living in fear. I didn't know anything about that, and -- responding to you -- until in September when this occurred for whatever reason. Now with the truth of what occurred, she's not testifying as an investigator. She said she heard he'd been shot and that gave her -- changed her reason for concern in some way. Whatever that might be, I don't know. Did you still have a reason for concern or you -- about Alex's safety, or did -- was it changed? Was it altered?
MARIAN PROCTOR: That day and for some time after that, we were very concerned for the family. We felt like someone was after them. But then we started finding out about other things that had been going on in Alex's life and --
JUDGE NEWMAN: And this is in part based on your conversation with Mr. Griffin?
MARIAN PROCTOR: This is everything that has come out since then.
JUDGE NEWMAN: Well, did you say that you had a conversation with Mr. Griffin?
MARIAN PROCTOR: That day that we found out that Alex had been shot, we did have a conversation with Mr. Griffin, and he's the one --
JUDGE NEWMAN: And Mr. Griffin told you he'd been fired and that he had been caught stealing money.
MARIAN PROCTOR: Correct.
MR. GRIFFIN: So, that's just hearsay.
JUDGE NEWMAN: Well, yeah. What kind of quandary does that put you in? Are you going to be a witness as well?
MR. GRIFFIN: Well, it's -- that's a hearsay statement, Your Honor, without a doubt. That's classic hearsay.
JUDGE NEWMAN: Well, it's the basis for her fear or not having fear, which is something you -- or fear or believing that Alex was in fear, that's something that you're probing. Aside from that issue, how about the family relationship issue of fidelity, opioid abuse concerns?
MR. GRIFFIN: Well, Your Honor, with regard to the fidelity, we can hear what she says about it. But the evidence, as I understand it, is ten or fifteen years ago, I don't know how long ago, but it was more than ten years ago. There was some issue about someone that Alex had known in college reaching out to him. Maggie got angry about that --
JUDGE NEWMAN: Reaching out to him fifteen years ago or recently?
MR. GRIFFIN: Yes, sir. Yes, sir. Yes, sir. And that Maggie got mad, angry about it, contacted the woman's husband who says it's not true. I know who she's seeing because I have a private eye on her. That led to a divorce.
JUDGE NEWMAN: So, you're now referring to a fifteen year old conversation.
MR. GRIFFIN: Yes.
JUDGE NEWMAN: All right.
MR. GRIFFIN: And then opioid stuff, Your Honor, it's -- I'm not sure what information she's going to share about that frankly.
JUDGE NEWMAN: Well, you had one earlier witness read a letter about him being in rehab.
MR. GRIFFIN: That they introduced, yes, sir.
JUDGE NEWMAN: That you published.
MR. GRIFFIN: It was already in evidence, Your Honor, over objection.
JUDGE NEWMAN: Go ahead, Mr. Waters.
MR. WATERS: So on both of these issues, first of all with the --
JUDGE NEWMAN: Ma'am, by the way, you can step down for a break. Don't discuss your case.
MARIAN PROCTOR: I'm fine.
JUDGE NEWMAN: You're fine?
MARIAN PROCTOR: I'm fine, yes. Thank you.
JUDGE NEWMAN: All right.
MR. WATERS: I'll go to the issue of the first matter. I think it's certainly a fair question to say did Maggie ever express to you any concerns? Were there ever any concerns and issues with the defendant's fidelity? I think that's clearly in response to the extensive evidence that's been offered by the defense.
JUDGE NEWMAN: But not fifteen -- you said has she ever, such as fifteen years ago?
MR. WATERS: Well, I think that my follow-up question would be was that something that remained in Maggie's mind over the years up until --
JUDGE NEWMAN: And she would know that?
MR. WATERS: I think that if I asked her that question, she could express an answer to that, yes, sir.
JUDGE NEWMAN: And what is the answer to that?
MARIAN PROCTOR: It was an affair that happened -- or Maggie thought it was an affair that happened many years ago. They were able to resolve the issues, but Maggie still brought it up.
JUDGE NEWMAN: As recently as when?
MARIAN PROCTOR: A year ago.
JUDGE NEWMAN: All right.
MARIAN PROCTOR: She did not think anything was going on. She just -- it still bothered her.
JUDGE NEWMAN: All right.
MR. WATERS: May I ask a follow-up, Your Honor?
JUDGE NEWMAN: Yes.
MR. WATERS: During -- when that event occurred, did she make Alex leave the household for a period of time?
MARIAN PROCTOR: She did.
MR. GRIFFIN: Your Honor, we need a timeframe on this.
I --
JUDGE NEWMAN: Well, I understand. Fifteen years ago or --
MR. WATERS: How long ago was that?
MARIAN PROCTOR: It was a very long time ago. I'm not sure.
JUDGE NEWMAN: All right.
MARIAN PROCTOR: A very long time ago.
MR. WATERS: I think -- again, I'm not trying to make it bigger than it is, but I think given the issues that have been squarely in front of the jury, the State is entitled to, at least in a limited fashion, to offer this -- some testimony in this regard that, you know, that everything was not perfect as the defense has repeatedly elicited. And so on that particular issue, I only propose a limited question, that, you know, had Maggie ever had any concerns about fidelity, and had those concerns continued to bother her, and that would be the extent of my proposed examination to her on that issue.
JUDGE NEWMAN: All right. Anything else?
MR. GRIFFIN: Your Honor, 2007 is our understanding, 2007, fifteen years ago.
JUDGE NEWMAN: Well, yeah, 2007 was fifteen years ago, yes.
MR. GRIFFIN: And that's when it occurred.
JUDGE NEWMAN: Well, that's been established. Give me something new --
MR. GRIFFIN: Well --
JUDGE NEWMAN: -- other than repeating fifteen years ago.
MR. GRIFFIN: It's not admissible under 403, the unfair prejudice outweighs the probative value of this. Whether it still bothered her, I mean, she testified that they weren't without their problems like all married couples, but they had a good marriage. I mean, it's been addressed. This is highly inflammatory.
JUDGE NEWMAN: That's why your questions have to not lead into things that might be inflammatory. We're going to be in recess for about 15 minutes.
(Break in proceedings.)
MARIAN PROCTOR: Please do not discuss your case.
(A break was taken.)
JUDGE NEWMAN: The witness can testify as to her concern as to what occurred on September 7th that changed her concern about Alex's living in fear. She cannot testify as to -- on the fidelity issue because that's too remote in time and would tend to confuse the jury. She can testify that she discovered that he'd been fired and that -- and that he had a drug problem.
MR. GRIFFIN: Your Honor, depending on how the testimony goes, we would have hearsay objection if she's testifying as to what someone told her.
JUDGE NEWMAN: Okay. Well, she's not testifying as to the truth of it. She's responding as to why her concerns were changed based on, in part, of her conversations with you --
MR. GRIFFIN: No, I understand that.
JUDGE NEWMAN: -- as an agent for Mr. Murdaugh.
MR. GRIFFIN: No, I understand that. My point I just stood to address is family wrestling with opioid and pill use by the defendant, that is hearsay if that's how she knows --
JUDGE NEWMAN: She heard he had a drug problem. I mean, if you want to talk about specifically, I don't know to what degree she discovered his drug problem or opioid addition or whatever it is. But it's already in evidence anyway.
MR. GRIFFIN: No, I understand. I'm just advising the Court that I would be making hearsay objections if that's --
JUDGE NEWMAN: Yes, sir, I understand. Anything else before the jury comes?
MR. WATERS: Nothing from the state at this time, Your Honor.
MR. GRIFFIN: Nothing from the defense, Your Honor.
JUDGE NEWMAN: All right. Bring the jury. Ma'am, you understand you can't go into great details on all of these issues.
MARIAN PROCTOR: Yes, sir.
(The jury returned to the courtroom.)
COURT BAILIFF: The jury is present, sir.
JUDGE NEWMAN: The objection is overruled. You may continue.
MR. WATERS: May it please the Court, Your Honor?
JUDGE NEWMAN: Yes.
CONTINUED REDIRECT EXAMINATION
BY MR. WATERS:
MR. WATERS: Ms. Proctor, when we left on the break, I was asking you what happened in September that caused you to change your assessment. Can you describe that to the jury, please?
MARIAN PROCTOR: On September 4th, we were headed to a football game, and my husband, Bart, received a phone call from a friend saying he was so sorry to hear about what had happened to my brother-in-law, and we had no idea what he was talking about. And he said, well, we've heard, you know -- he told us he'd been shot. So, we pulled over on the side of the road. We were all in hysterics. We called Buster, and Buster said, yes, that his dad had been shot, that he was being airlifted to the hospital, that they thought he was -- hoped he was going to be okay. So, we wanted more information, so we called Jim Griffin, and he told us that Alex had been shot in the head, and that he had been fired from his law firm for stealing.
MR. WATERS: What was your concern when you heard that he been shot?
MARIAN PROCTOR: Initially I thought he might be dead. I had just lost two of the family members, and I felt like they were being targeted at that point. I felt like the family was being targeted.
MR. WATERS: Subsequent to that, did your concern that the family was being targeted, did that change as well?
MARIAN PROCTOR: Over the course of a few weeks, we were still on high alert worried for Buster, but at that point information started coming out about some things that Alex had done financially that we had no idea about.
MR. WATERS: And that changed your assessment about what you heard about him being shot as well. Is that correct? Can you answer out loud?
MARIAN PROCTOR: The shooting, that was an event in itself, the roadside shooting.
MR. WATERS: You just stated that the shooting itself, the roadside shooting was an event in itself. Did other information come to your attention that changed your assessment about the roadside shooting at a later time?
MARIAN PROCTOR: Yes.
MR. WATERS: And then changed that initial concern that Alex was somehow being targeted.
MARIAN PROCTOR: Yes.
MR. WATERS: Did Maggie have a nickname for Paul?
MARIAN PROCTOR: Little -- what did -- Detective.
MR. WATERS: Little Detective?
MARIAN PROCTOR: Uh-huh.
MR. WATERS: And what did that mean?
MARIAN PROCTOR: She felt like that he was always looking to make sure his dad was behaving.
MR. WATERS: And what specifically was the concern?
MARIAN PROCTOR: Pills. Prescription pain pills.
MR. WATERS: And had Maggie expressed to you concern over time about the defendant's pill usage?
MARIAN PROCTOR: Yes.
MR. WATERS: And how long had that been going on?
MARIAN PROCTOR: I am not sure, but I think it had been going on for some time.
MR. WATERS: And did that concern continue up until recent times as we moved to their -- Maggie and Paul's murder?
MARIAN PROCTOR: Yes.
MR. WATERS: And what did specifically Little Detective mean as it related to the pills?
MARIAN PROCTOR: If there were pills in the house that his dad was taking that he wasn't supposed to, Paul was determined that he would find them.
MR. WATERS: And did that happen on occasions?
MARIAN PROCTOR: I think so, yes.
MR. WATERS: Hold for me one second.
(Break in proceedings.)
MR. WATERS: What specifically changed your perception of the roadside shooting after your initial concern?
MARIAN PROCTOR: The story that was initially told about what happened came to not be true.
MR. WATERS: The story told by who?
MARIAN PROCTOR: Um, Alex.
MR. WATERS: Alex? Yes?
MARIAN PROCTOR: Yes.
MR. WATERS: Thank you, Your Honor. Nothing further.
JUDGE NEWMAN: Anything further?
MR. GRIFFIN: No, Your Honor.
JUDGE NEWMAN: Thank you. You may step down.
MARIAN PROCTOR: Thank you.
(The witness exited the stand.)